Is anyone else a Seer?

[360watt]

The old self is entirely obliterated once the spirit of Christ enters the Christian. I know this comes as a complete shock to many of you who have been indoctrinated in the-old-nature-versus-the-new-naturetheology. Most Christians have been taught to believe that after salvation, they are still the same at their core, and they live the rest of their lives trying to restrain this old nature. They believe they have two natures.

Romans 6:2
How shall we, that are dead to sin,live any longer therein?

The Christians of today believe they are alive to sin and it's with much effort, frustration, and failure that they battle this sin nature the rest of their lives. This idea that the spirit of Christ makes our flesh spiritual is believed by most because the churches teach that Christians still have a sin nature. They do not. It's destroyed after the spirit of Christ has come upon the Christian. It seems like the whole Christian world teaches that the spirit follows the flesh, and by that, I mean the spirit functions through the flesh. The reason I cannot lust in the flesh when following after the spirit is because it's impossible to do so since the spirit of Christ does not lust after the flesh.

Shall I list the weaknesses of all famous people in the bible?

What are you calling sin?

Because absolutely no one is perfect aside from God.

When the bible says a believer does not sin..it also says we are liar if we say we do not sin.


Contradiction? No.

The seed of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in a believer never sins. The spirit... sealed by the Holy Spirit..does not sin.

Powered by the Holy Spirit.. the believer can be more faithful..but never be sinless. Then we would not be human!

But I think Peter..you believe people can be 'God'

 

[Peterlag]

Shall I list the weaknesses of all famous people in the bible?

What are you calling sin?

Because absolutely no one is perfect aside from God.

When the bible says a believer does not sin..it also says we are liar if we say we do not sin.


Contradiction? No.

The seed of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in a believer never sins. The spirit... sealed by the Holy Spirit..does not sin.

Powered by the Holy Spirit.. the believer can be more faithful..but never be sinless. Then we would not be human!

But I think Peter..you believe people can be 'God'

The Bible does not use the word "perfect" that I see you're using. If you want to use the word "perfect" then maybe you can write your own book because the Bible uses the word sin. The Scripture does not say whosoever abideth in him is perfect. It says...

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

 

[360watt]

The Bible does not use the word "perfect" that I see you're using. If you want to use the word "perfect" then maybe you can write your own book because the Bible uses the word sin. The Scripture does not say whosoever abideth in him is perfect. It says...

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him neither hath known him

Abideth and sinneth..

These words are about ongoing continous action. (One good reason why the KJB uses this kind of English)

So a believer wouldn't usually continue on in sin with no remorse/change.

Not that they don't sin at all! We all do!

But the primary question is what is the context of these verses?

That will show the real meaning.

 

[Peterlag]

Abideth and sinneth..

These words are about ongoing continous action. (One good reason why the KJB uses this kind of English)

So a believer wouldn't usually continue on in sin with no remorse/change.

Not that they don't sin at all! We all do!

But the primary question is what is the context of these verses?

That will show the real meaning.

Oh yes, please do list the context to show the real meaning concerning the following Scripture...

Romans 6
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law,

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

being made free from sin, and become servants to God,

1 John 3 & 5
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.

 

[360watt]

Oh yes, please do list the context to show the real meaning concerning the following Scripture...

Romans 6
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law,

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

being made free from sin, and become servants to God,

1 John 3 & 5
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.

Yeah..again.. this is about continuously abiding in sin. Not that a believer doesn't sin at all.

Freed from the chains of sin so the believer can serve God freely. The right response to Jesus saving them. And they still have flesh v spirit. Otherwise Paul would not talk about doing things he would not a long time after conversion.

 

[Peterlag]

Yeah..again.. this is about continuously abiding in sin. Not that a believer doesn't sin at all.

Freed from the chains of sin so the believer can serve God freely. The right response to Jesus saving them. And they still have flesh v spirit. Otherwise Paul would not talk about doing things he would not a long time after conversion.

The verse does not say abiding in sin. It says abiding in him (Jesus Christ).

 

[charismaticlady]

ok, so you sin but they are not unto death, so they get cleaned along the way (without confessing). Aren't we supposed to confess our sins? Do you tell the Lord you are sorry for venial sins? and do you repeat them?
The sacrifice was made for us, but we still need to confess. Jesus is the Lamb
Leviticus 5:5–6 provides clear instruction on this practice:

Many venial sins are not known to us UNTIL Jesus adds them to our conscience. 2 Peter 1:5-7 shows we are not aware of them at the same time. That is why as we walk in the Spirit and obey our conscience, Jesus cleanses us of sins not unto death as we commit them. For me, say I post something I shouldn't, Jesus will simply instruct me to edit, and I obey. I didn't need to confess it. The key is abiding in Christ at all times.

1 John 1:9 and Acts 2:38 are both to receive the Holy Spirit that makes our nature born again. If we have to keep confessing sin, then we don't have the Spirit of Christ and are not born again. That would be like the Jews under the law: with "the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin." The flesh is our carnal nature that is still alive in the unbeliever.

Let me ask you a question that came up on another site I belong to. In Romans 8:8-11 does Paul mean "the flesh" is our mortal body?

8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

 

[charismaticlady]

Otherwise Paul would not talk about doing things he would not a long time after conversion.

Are you talking about Romans 7:14-23? If so, that is Paul reminiscing of when he was still under the law and had a carnal nature. But go read verses 5-7 - they put the rest of the chapter in context. After conversion we are no longer doing what we don't want to do. Jesus takes away the sin in our nature, leaving us with a clean nature free of desires to commit a sin against God's law. Then we must grow the fruit of the Spirit. Immature fruit causes us to commit sins not unto death. It is Jesus to matures us as we continue to walk in the Spirit.

 

[dwight92070]

Are you talking about Romans 7:14-23? If so, that is Paul reminiscing of when he was still under the law and had a carnal nature. But go read verses 5-7 - they put the rest of the chapter in context. After conversion we are no longer doing what we don't want to do. Jesus takes away the sin in our nature, leaving us with a clean nature free of desires to commit a sin against God's law. Then we must grow the fruit of the Spirit. Immature fruit causes us to commit sins not unto death. It is Jesus to matures us as we continue to walk in the Spirit.

"After conversion we are no longer doing what we don't want to do."???

You're living in a make-believe world. You're not physically in heaven yet. Given your false teaching, I hope you make it.

 

[Peterlag]

"After conversion we are no longer doing what we don't want to do."???

You're living in a make-believe world. You're not physically in heaven yet. Given your false teaching, I hope you make it.

We as Christians are either walking by the spirit or we are walking by the flesh. I now spend much of my time right inside the spirit as close as I can get right in their face. The Greek word menō translated "abide" often deals with being in him, which I'm very concerned about when it comes to walking in Christ, which I believe is the same as walking in the spirit. To be in him or to abide in him deals with remaining or continuing to be present. To dwell, live, and be within him to the end that we are operative in him by his divine influence and energy. My first red flag that started me looking into how to do this was when I realized it's the Catholics that teach we are sinners. They teach us to look at ourselves and our sin. I teach that we should look at Christ and to walk in his spirit.

 

[360watt]

Are you talking about Romans 7:14-23? If so, that is Paul reminiscing of when he was still under the law and had a carnal nature. But go read verses 5-7 - they put the rest of the chapter in context. After conversion we are no longer doing what we don't want to do. Jesus takes away the sin in our nature, leaving us with a clean nature free of desires to commit a sin against God's law. Then we must grow the fruit of the Spirit. Immature fruit causes us to commit sins not unto death. It is Jesus to matures us as we continue to walk in the Spirit.

The fact remains.. believers still sin after conversion. Because they are human. Sin is forgiven by Jesus, a believer is sealed by the Holy Spirit..cleansed .. and they still have a dual nature.

Sin is imperfection.. everyone misses the mark of perfection. Hence why Jesus died for us.

Enabled to serve Jesus because He has forgiven the believer.

David.. had issues with adultery
Peter...had issues with separation grace from.the law
Paul I think had disagreements with co workers in ministry where he was being too hard.
Job.. questioned God when he had lost most of everything.

Sin isn't just the deadly seven ..it's imperfection. Everyone misses the mark of it.

 

[charismaticlady]

"After conversion we are no longer doing what we don't want to do."???

You're living in a make-believe world. You're not physically in heaven yet. Given your false teaching, I hope you make it.

If you are doing what you don't want to do, then you still have the sin nature controlling you. Jesus warned that we must be born again. Not everyone that goes to church are born again. I wasn't for the first 30 years I went to church. Don't just assume you are. It is too important to actually be born again. First we must understand the scriptures to mean what God inspired them to mean. The person in Romans 7:5-6 is born again. The person in the old life of Romans 7:14-25 is not, but Paul tells you who can make you become born again in verse 24.

Dwight, please give me your interpretation of Romans 8:9? I'll give you the verse before and after.

8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

 

[MTMattie]

@charismatic lady,

Please explain the following verse to one who IS born again.

1 Cor 10:13 KJV

There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

And then explain how God provides an escape for the unmarried. DO I HAVE TO SPELL IT OUT?

 

[charismaticlady]

@charismatic lady,

Please explain the following verse to one who IS born again.

1 Cor 10:13 KJV

There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

And then explain how God provides an escape for the unmarried. DO I HAVE TO SPELL IT OUT?

Oh my, no you don't have to spell it out. It is the first thing anyone would think of.

This is why though the laws are written on the hearts of those who are born again of the Spirit of Christ, sexual sin is reiterated many times because of the strength of that particular temptation.

I would like to suggest to those who have teenage girls that they read the novel series by Karen Kingsbury. I sure wish they were around when I was a girl. I wasn't baptized in the Spirit: born again of the Spirit, until I was close to 30. And by then I was no longer a virgin. As far as God making a way of escape, a lot has to do with packs with friends to be accountable to who also loved God. I went to a Christian boarding school and we girls wore circle pins signifying we were pure. But when I graduated I was raped by a serial rapist which made me feel dirty afterwards so I felt there was no use "saving myself" anymore.

The night I was Spirit-filled I felt a dark heaviness lift out of my body and I never had a problem with adultery again. However, I had to go through some suffering while married to my second husband who was very abusive before I could vow to God that even if he killed me, I wouldn't leave him as I never wanted to commit another sin against God. Luckily before that could happen he left me for the wife of his best friend and I was free. Now for the past 24 years since I moved away I have not put myself in any situation that could lead me to my old "favorite" sin. (Not adultery, the other one for singles...)

 

[360watt]

Oh my, no you don't have to spell it out. It is the first thing anyone would think of.

This is why though the laws are written on the hearts of those who are born again of the Spirit of Christ, sexual sin is reiterated many times because of the strength of that particular temptation.

I would like to suggest to those who have teenage girls that they read the novel series by Karen Kingsbury. I sure wish they were around when I was a girl. I wasn't baptized in the Spirit: born again of the Spirit, until I was close to 30. And by then I was no longer a virgin. As far as God making a way of escape, a lot has to do with packs with friends to be accountable to who also loved God. I went to a Christian boarding school and we girls wore circle pins signifying we were pure. But when I graduated I was raped by a serial rapist which made me feel dirty afterwards so I felt there was no use "saving myself" anymore.

The night I was Spirit-filled I felt a dark heaviness lift out of my body and I never had a problem with adultery again. However, I had to go through some suffering while married to my second husband who was very abusive before I could vow to God that even if he killed me, I wouldn't leave him as I never wanted to commit another sin against God. Luckily before that could happen he left me for the wife of his best friend and I was free. Now for the past 24 years since I moved away I have not put myself in any situation that could lead me to my old "favorite" sin. (Not adultery, the other one for singles...)

Right...so therefore.. you still have issues to address after salvation. That is the point.

 

[charismaticlady]

The fact remains.. believers still sin after conversion. Because they are human. Sin is forgiven by Jesus, a believer is sealed by the Holy Spirit..cleansed .. and they still have a dual nature.

Sin is imperfection.. everyone misses the mark of perfection. Hence why Jesus died for us.

Enabled to serve Jesus because He has forgiven the believer.

David.. had issues with adultery
Peter...had issues with separation grace from.the law
Paul I think had disagreements with co workers in ministry where he was being too hard.
Job.. questioned God when he had lost most of everything.

Sin isn't just the deadly seven ..it's imperfection. Everyone misses the mark of it.

This disagrees with why Jesus came to earth. It wasn't to cover our sins against God but to take away all desire to commit them. He does this by giving us a new nature that can partake of the divine nature of God. It was the sin nature that was inherited from Adam when he obeyed Satan rather than God, making all sinners slaves of Satan.

The heresy that we now have two natures is a slap in the face to whose cleansing blood made us righteous/sinless of sins unto death. 2 Peter 1:5-7 is the second phase of the gospel of Jesus that takes us from "faith to faith." Now that we are clean John 15:3, He starts maturing us in the fruit of the Spirit and He starts taking away our sins not unto death. And the word says in Philippians that He will finish what He began. When all the fruit of the Spirit are mature then we will never stumble 2 Peter 1:10-11. That is when we are not only righteous, but holy. Revelation 22:11b.

 

[charismaticlady]

Right...so therefore.. you still have issues to address after salvation. That is the point.

God sees sin in two groups. 1 John 5:16-17, Numbers 15:22-29 and 30-36. They are sins unto DEATH (LAW), and sins NOT unto death (Absense of fruit). We only commit sins not unto death after salvation. But as we walk in the light as Jesus is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus (automatically) cleanses us from all sin, 1 John 1:7. The type of sin John means is not murder, stealing, adultery or lying, but the lesser type of sin as the sacrifice in the Old Testament 22-29. Seeing as they are automatically cleansed because we are WALKING in the Spirit of all powerful God, He completes the maturing of the fruit of the Spirit in this lifetime, NOT after we are dead which is another heresy, a doctrine of demons actually.

John 15:1-4
“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 ;You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

2 Peter 1:5-11
5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. 10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

 

[charismaticlady]

Right...so therefore.. you still have issues to address after salvation. That is the point.

Another point is if I am walking in the Spirit it is not my effort to not commit those sins not unto death (immature fruit), it is Jesus'. He, not I, is the author and finisher of my faith. He is the one who matures the fruit of the Spirit as He glorifies me to little by little become like Jesus. (We are already sanctified when we are justified - day one of being baptized in the Spirit. Another false doctrine. Romans 8:29-30, 1 Corinthians 1:2 and 6:11). All we have to do is abide in Him.

For instance, we can be very nasty people as we respond to each other on what is suppose to be a Christian forum. Even if walking in the Spirit. But pretty soon we find ourselves not being so nasty as we were before until we aren't nasty at all. Not because we tried not to be nasty, but because Jesus writes 'nasty' on our hearts and we find ourselves now responding in mature love.

 

[360watt]

Another point is if I am walking in the Spirit it is not my effort to not commit those sins not unto death (immature fruit), it is Jesus'. He, not I, is the author and finisher of my faith. He is the one who matures the fruit of the Spirit as He glorifies me to little by little become like Jesus. (We are already sanctified when we are justified - day one of being baptized in the Spirit. Another false doctrine. Romans 8:29-30, 1 Corinthians 1:2 and 6:11). All we have to do is abide in Him.

For instance, we can be very nasty people as we respond to each other on what is suppose to be a Christian forum. Even if walking in the Spirit. But pretty soon we find ourselves not being so nasty as we were before until we aren't nasty at all. Not because we tried not to be nasty, but because Jesus writes 'nasty' on our hearts and we find ourselves now responding in mature love.

Well, if He is the one maintaining your salvation.. then you wouldn't *have* to abide in Him... you'd choose to in response. If you HAVE to.. that is backloading works into your salvation.

Salvation is purely.. believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will receive eternal life. Acknowledging you are a sinner and believing He is God, that He lived sinless, that He died and rose again the third day. That by believing in Him, you have eternal life.

That is salvation. Not a commitment like a contract.. not making Jesus 'Lord of your life'. That takes alot of time to do that! Salvation is instantaneous.. a free gift.. not by works. Saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[charismaticlady]

Right...so therefore.. you still have issues to address after salvation. That is the point.

Well, if He is the one maintaining your salvation.. then you wouldn't *have* to abide in Him... you'd choose to in response. If you HAVE to.. that is backloading works into your salvation.

Salvation is purely.. believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will receive eternal life. Acknowledging you are a sinner and believing He is God, that He lived sinless, that He died and rose again the third day. That by believing in Him, you have eternal life.

That is salvation. Not a commitment like a contract.. not making Jesus 'Lord of your life'. That takes alot of time to do that! Salvation is instantaneous.. a free gift.. not by works. Saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

Wrong. IF we draw near to God, He draws near to us. In Hebrews 12 Jesus, not us, is the AUTHOR and FINISHER of our faith. To abide in Christ, read His word. Those who grow stagnant are people who stop reading His Word, who stop going to church and stop wisely choosing Christian friends. This can happen to people who maybe lose a child and blame God, instead of trusting God to see them again someday in heaven.

I see you have bought the definition of grace as being a coverall of our sins - unmerited favor. It is favor alright, but grace is the power of God given to us to grow in the Lord and naturally obey our conscience where He has written His laws.

You are wrong in your assumption that I believe we don't have to abide in Him. NO! That is the prerequisite to obeying what He writes on our hearts. Look at 1 John 3:24 and see that it is abiding in Him that gives us the power to keep His LAWS. And then to grow in the fruit of the Spirit see John 15:1-4 and be aware that it is also abiding in Him that gives us the power/fertilizer to grow and mature in the fruit of the Spirit.

Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. It doesn't appear you believe any of the warnings in Scripture.