Is anyone else a Seer?

[charismaticlady]

Not that the Father in heaven sins.. no. But that the context isn't about being 100 percent sinless

All sin is cleansed for the believer and the spirit never sins. But being a person still sin in the flesh.

But that is the opposite of what Paul teaches (when you said, we are "in the flesh.") Romans 8:8-9. See if you are actually a born again Christian, or if verse 8 applies to you. Verse 9 applies to me now for many years.

You? 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Me! 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

 

[charismaticlady]

What does it mean to be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect (Matthew 5:48)? | GotQuestions.org

What does it mean to be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect? What is the meaning of Matthew 5:48

www.gotquestions.org

I do not believe in "sinless perfection." That is saying we are both sinless and perfect at the beginning, but Jesus first takes away the desire to break a commandment of God, as they are sins unto death. He makes us ready for eternal life. But then Jesus starts His finished work based on 2 Peter 1:5-11 that takes a long time in His time-frame, not ours, as he matures every fruit of the Spirit that cause sins NOT unto death.

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Only when completely mature in all the fruit of the Spirit are we holy, and not just righteous. Revelation 22:11b

 

[360watt]

I agree with being born again by the Spirit and then pursuing after Him by His power and strength.

I agree with Him maturing us through the fruits of the Spirit.

I agree with having crucified the flesh.

That does not mean that we won't ever return to old ways, though. We shouldn't..but it's possible:

1 Corinthians 3:1-3 KJV - And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

So if you compare this Roman 8:8-9. .

It seems to me that the new nature means we can flee from sin.. not be in fleshly ways.. but that it is still possible to fall into those ways.

 

[charismaticlady]

That does not mean that we won't ever return to old ways, though. We shouldn't..but it's possible:

You just described a Christian that apostatized. They are no longer a Christian and no longer on the path toward salvation.

2 Peter 2
20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

Why do you think Peter says "the latter end is worse for them than the beginning?

I hope you are not one who believes a Christian can apostatize and are still saved. That is a doctrine of demons that allows you to stop abiding in Christ, the only path of righteousness. I've noticed that your posts to me dwell on being able to sin. I see no rejoicing that you have power Christ gives you while abiding in Christ to never stumble. Maybe you are not old enough to even see the finish line. I am.

 

[360watt]

You just described a Christian that apostatized. They are no longer a Christian and no longer on the path toward salvation.

2 Peter 2
20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

Why do you think Peter says "the latter end is worse for them than the beginning?

I hope you are not one who believes a Christian can apostatize and are still saved. That is a doctrine of demons that allows you to stop abiding in Christ, the only path of righteousness. I've noticed that your posts to me dwell on being able to sin. I see no rejoicing that you have power Christ gives you while abiding in Christ to never stumble. Maybe you are not old enough to even see the finish line. I am.

Salvation isn't a life long path. It is knowing you are a sinner deserving hell, and then believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. That He is God, lived sinless, died and rose again. That by believing in Him, you have eternal life.

See John 3:16, 5:24, 6:40, 8:40. Romans 10:9-10. Ephesians 2:8-9.

2 Peter 2.. gotta get the context of the verse. Is it those who never believed?

If they were believers..then is this actually talking about the consequence of hell? Or discipline and rebuke from God?

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

I find it very interesting that most Christendom will agree with this statement but not in practice.

Jesus defeated/conquered satan, death and sin.

Most will affirm death and satan but not sin because they still sin.

But there are so many passages that speak of the old man was put to death, sin was put to death, be dead to sin and alive in Christ. Put on the new man, clothe yourself with Christ. There is human volition/will to obey loving what God loves and hating what God hates. There is an active crucifixion that needs to take place. A daily taking up your cross, deny self and follow/obey Christ. Putting on the full armor of God and put to death the flesh.



Galatians 5:24
Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified [past tense and dead] the flesh with its passions and desires.”

Colossians 2:11
“In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off [paste tense; what is circumcised/removed is never again part of the body] when you were circumcised by Christ,”

Romans 6:4
We were therefore buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may walk in newness of life.

Romans 7:5
“For when we were [past tense] in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death.”

Romans 8:9
“You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.”

2 Corinthians 5:16
Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

Colossians 3:5
Put to death, therefore, the components of your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires, and greed, which is idolatry.

Colossians 3:9-10
Do not lie to one another, since you have taken off the old self with its practices, / and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.

Romans 8:13
For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come!

Ephesians 4:22-24
to put off your former way of life, your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be renewed in the spirit of your minds; / and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

Romans 13:14
Instead, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the desires of the flesh.

Galatians 3:27
For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

1 Peter 2:11
Beloved, I urge you, as foreigners and exiles, to abstain from the desires of the flesh, which war against your soul.

Galatians 5:16
But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.

Romans 8:5-6
Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. / The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace,

Romans 12:2
Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what is the good, pleasing, and perfect will of God.

1 Peter 4:1-2
Therefore, since Christ suffered in His body, arm yourselves with the same resolve, because anyone who has suffered in his body is done with sin. / Consequently, he does not live out his remaining time on earth for human passions, but for the will of God.

1 John 2:15-17
Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. / For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not from the Father but from the world. / The world is passing away, along with its desires; but whoever does the will of God remains forever.

many still love their pet sins . And in no way desire to beleive
And i mean they actually still LOVE their particular sins . COURSE they dont see it as sin
they find a pastor who preaches another jesus and sit under that one .
IN other words many go about hungering and thirsting
BUT NOT after righteousness , but to find ways to cover up their own sins as they sit under
ear ticklers that preach exactly what their flesh desired to see as TRUTH . notice i said their flesh desired .
But sheep . GOD does a wonderful work upon a sheep . IT HUNGERS FOR TRUTH , RIGHTEOUSNESS
and it loveth the words of GOD , of HIS CHRIST . and it hates even the evil present within its own flesh .
And it will correct sin and error within the brethren . IT loveth , and its love is not of the world
BUT cometh OF GOD . a new heart . A new heart .
wherein by the blood of CHRIST the conscious has been cleansed and the desire to do good
is within it . and though it walks in the valley wherein much evil does dwell
and due to the flesh temptations shall come , IT looketh not to the right hand or to the left
to find an excuse to justify these wicked desires , IT hates them and it prays to GOD
for power against such things . SEE a sheep actually does have a new heart .
INDWELT BY THE HOLY GHOST . notice that says HOLY , not uholy ghost , HOLY .
IF ye follow the SPIRIT ye would NOT fullfill the lusts of the flesh .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

You just described a Christian that apostatized. They are no longer a Christian and no longer on the path toward salvation.

2 Peter 2
20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

Why do you think Peter says "the latter end is worse for them than the beginning?

I hope you are not one who believes a Christian can apostatize and are still saved. That is a doctrine of demons that allows you to stop abiding in Christ, the only path of righteousness. I've noticed that your posts to me dwell on being able to sin. I see no rejoicing that you have power Christ gives you while abiding in Christ to never stumble. Maybe you are not old enough to even see the finish line. I am.

What if i were to tell you
that many even within christendom
have by the desires of the flesh recreated another jesus in their own image
and found pastors who agreed with their own fleshly desires .
Because MANY HAVE DONE JUST THIS . and yet they believe ITS JESUS they love
and yet upon examinatiion of their version of what THEY claim is JESUS
i sure seem to notice Acceptance of SIN . MAN that AINT JESUS they ran too . their flesh led
them to another jesus and that one cannot save them . IT really is bible time in the building .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

Salvation isn't a life long path. It is knowing you are a sinner deserving hell, and then believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. That He is God, lived sinless, died and rose again. That by believing in Him, you have eternal life.

See John 3:16, 5:24, 6:40, 8:40. Romans 10:9-10. Ephesians 2:8-9.

2 Peter 2.. gotta get the context of the verse. Is it those who never believed?

If they were believers..then is this actually talking about the consequence of hell? Or discipline and rebuke from God?

The next words i type are not an accusation .
They are to seriously make us all think and ponder and then RUN right back to the BIBLE for ourselves .
What if i told you that an overwhemling number , a sheer uncountable number
of folks within christendom , NOW SERVE another jesus by means of a false love .
And that in fact they would RUN THE TRUE JESUS right out of their churches
if he came back as man , and say HEY DUDE , GOD IS LOVE , you need jesus .
IN other words MANY DO follow and are madly in love with another jesus
and i warn us all that one cannot save . THUS lets get nose deep into our bibles
and stay in our bibles to learn for ourselves . YOU would be shocked
to the core to see the rebellion against Christ and his saints
that is already occuring within christendom itself . THEY have come to the darkness
and that darkness has and is leading them only into greater darkness and into all out rebellion
and mass hatred against GOD and the saints . ONLY they dont see it as that .
THEY THINK men like me are the haters who dont KNOW GOD , CHRIST , LOVE or THE TRUTH . we got problems
big time . NOw let us get back into the scrips for our own selves .

 

[360watt]

The next words i type are not an accusation .
They are to seriously make us all think and ponder and then RUN right back to the BIBLE for ourselves .
What if i told you that an overwhemling number , a sheer uncountable number
of folks within christendom , NOW SERVE another jesus by means of a false love .
And that in fact they would RUN THE TRUE JESUS right out of their churches
if he came back as man , and say HEY DUDE , GOD IS LOVE , you need jesus .
IN other words MANY DO follow and are madly in love with another jesus
and i warn us all that one cannot save . THUS lets get nose deep into our bibles
and stay in our bibles to learn for ourselves . YOU would be shocked
to the core to see the rebellion against Christ and his saints
that is already occuring within christendom itself . THEY have come to the darkness
and that darkness has and is leading them only into greater darkness and into all out rebellion
and mass hatred against GOD and the saints . ONLY they dont see it as that .
THEY THINK men like me are the haters who dont KNOW GOD , CHRIST , LOVE or THE TRUTH . we got problems
big time . NOw let us get back into the scrips for our own selves .

Yea going to the Bible itself to test what you are being taught is the best way.

Context is key

For eg ..the often quoted 'there is no more sacrifice for sins'.. trying to have a verse that supports losing eternal life.

This is in Hebrews 10.. Hebrews 10:26

The chapter is actually about animal sacrifice mainly. The Hebrews, as new believers in Christ, were going back to traditional mosaic/levitical law ways.

So..they were going back to sacrificing animals to please God. Make atonement for their sins.

But since Jesus is the ultimate lamb, this was no longer required. The sacrifices were a symbol/foreshadow of His sacrifice. They didn't atone for their sin.

So..'no more sacrifice for sins ' therefore isn't about individual salvation..but no more animal sacrifices, since the Hebrews were now under Christ in the new covenant.

The application for a believer today would maybe be along the lines of giving up on old ways ourselves that we think make us right before God in our own eyes.

 

[360watt]

Study 3 THE TWO-FOLD NATURE OF EVERY BELIEVER - Words of Life Ministries CIO

Things Hard to be Understood by Francis Dixon (Scripture Portion: Romans 7: 15-25) In our last study we saw the importance of being able to distinguish between our standing and our state, but now we...

www.wordsoflife.co.uk

 

[charismaticlady]

Study 3 THE TWO-FOLD NATURE OF EVERY BELIEVER - Words of Life Ministries CIO

Things Hard to be Understood by Francis Dixon (Scripture Portion: Romans 7: 15-25) In our last study we saw the importance of being able to distinguish between our standing and our state, but now we...

www.wordsoflife.co.uk

Don't you know that Romans 7:14-25 is the experience of those under the LAW and their sin nature was never crucified and resurrected as righteous? How soon he forgot in the same chapter verses 5 and 6. The flesh, called the sin nature, is PAST TENSE. Therefore, verses 14-25 is when we still had a sin nature. It was when the Jews had the Law in their mind, but had to try to keep the commandments by their sin nature.

5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Stop looking at the poor commentaries and articles from man, when you shouldn't need to. All we need to do is read in CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT!!!

 

[360watt]

Don't you know that Romans 7:14-25 is the experience of those under the LAW and their sin nature was never crucified and resurrected as righteous? How soon he forgot in the same chapter verses 5 and 6. The flesh, called the sin nature, is PAST TENSE. Therefore, verses 14-25 is when we still had a sin nature. It was when the Jews had the Law in their mind, but had to try to keep the commandments by their sin nature.

5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Stop looking at the poor commentaries and articles from man, when you shouldn't need to. All we need to do is read in CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT!!!

People are human.. before salvation.. after salvation.. therefore imperfect.. therefore still have a sin nature to overcome.

5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Yes-- so the key thing being we 'should' serve in the newness of the Spirit etc.. meaning it is still possible to go back to old ways.

End

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

TO the trenches and let the trumpet be sounded by the watchers on the wall .
A great and massive delusion has come to lead all to the day of perdition of ungodly men .
Line the walls
Man the trenches and the fighting pits . Its all out war for the souls of men in these last hours .
THE LORD is our hope and our salvation .

 

[charismaticlady]

People are human.. before salvation.. after salvation.. therefore imperfect.. therefore still have a sin nature to overcome.

5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Yes-- so the key thing being we 'should' serve in the newness of the Spirit etc.. meaning it is still possible to go back to old ways.

End

I'll leave you with my own testimony. I went to church for 30 years and was not saved. You seem to know about Jesus, but not as "the Christ." “To finish the transgression, to make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness.” Jesus said, we must be born again of the Spirit. If you are still in the flesh, then you don't have the Spirit who crucifies the flesh. We must have Romans 8:9 as our truth, and don't live in Romans 8:8.

Romans 8:9 But we are NOT IN THE FLESH, but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God dwells within you. And anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

 

[360watt]

I'll leave you with my own testimony. I went to church for 30 years and was not saved. You seem to know about Jesus, but not as "the Christ." “To finish the transgression, to make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness.” Jesus said, we must be born again of the Spirit. If you are still in the flesh, then you don't have the Spirit who crucifies the flesh. We must have Romans 8:9 as our truth, and don't live in Romans 8:8.

Romans 8:9 But we are NOT IN THE FLESH, but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God dwells within you. And anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

Right, so when I was born again, by grace thru faith in Jesus Christ, I was forgiven my sin by His power and indwelling of His Spirit.

I was then freed to follow Him, by His Spirit. No longer in chains or a servant to the law.

There were things I used to that I did stop.
Like biting my nails.. being very anxious.

I had a peace with God.

This peace has stayed and I have eternal security and assurance of salvation. God will not leave me.

I found a biblically grounded church in my mid 20s and have been faithfully giving to, and attending churches like it since 2004.

Since I am human there are still times I have struggled with sin.

This is the the way it is for the majority of believers.

Peace

 

[MTMattie]

I usually don't take man's word for interpretation. In fact I'm neither Calvinist nor Armenian. Also my church comes from a line that has no known human founder.

Abiding in Christ after salvation is out of freedom from chains..not because we HAVE to. Otherwise you are working your way to heaven.

Salvation is a free gift, not by works. Being faithful to Jesus after salvation is the right response to this gift..but not that we HAVE to.

John 5:24.. 10:28.. salvation is given and then it is possessed by the believer for eternity. Saved past tense and kept by the power of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

An unfaithful believer will experience discipline from Jesus. They will be quickened to flee sin..but He won't leave the believer.

Yet:

And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him. Heb 11:6

 

[MTMattie]

The next words i type are not an accusation .
They are to seriously make us all think and ponder and then RUN right back to the BIBLE for ourselves .
What if i told you that an overwhemling number , a sheer uncountable number
of folks within christendom , NOW SERVE another jesus by means of a false love .
And that in fact they would RUN THE TRUE JESUS right out of their churches
if he came back as man , and say HEY DUDE , GOD IS LOVE , you need jesus .
IN other words MANY DO follow and are madly in love with another jesus
and i warn us all that one cannot save . THUS lets get nose deep into our bibles
and stay in our bibles to learn for ourselves . YOU would be shocked
to the core to see the rebellion against Christ and his saints
that is already occuring within christendom itself . THEY have come to the darkness
and that darkness has and is leading them only into greater darkness and into all out rebellion
and mass hatred against GOD and the saints . ONLY they dont see it as that .
THEY THINK men like me are the haters who dont KNOW GOD , CHRIST , LOVE or THE TRUTH . we got problems
big time . NOw let us get back into the scrips for our own selves .

Ah my dear brother @TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY

As truthful as you wrote this, and as sad as well... and we all need to heed your words, I am reading here and I was reminded of
an encounter I hade with my vedry own cousin who believes only the RCC is it.

He and his wife come here to stay a few days every few months and before Thanksgiving last I got up one morning and first thing I do is put this forum on. Even before I make my coffee.

His wife was already up and on her texting (I dont know that many people) and something came up in one of the threads
and I made a comment to the the wife explaining it is in the bible and then he came into the kitchen while we were talking and
I brought it up to him... and he did not know what I was talking about. Come a month later and they were back for Christmas
and as he was sitting in the great room he looked over at me and asked if I was still on "those forums" and I said yes.

He simply said "You better quit. They are dangerous" LOL

I had to share that because this one would not really dig into a bible to learn but thinks that you people are dangerous to me.

 

[360watt]

Yet:

And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him. Heb 11:6

Yes, this is true. So what are you saying with this verse?

 

[MTMattie]

Yes, this is true. So what are you saying with this verse?

You said

"An unfaithful believer will experience discipline from Jesus. They will be quickened to flee sin..but He won't leave the believer."

So considering "And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him. Heb 11:6"

I personally find the words unfaithful and believer to be at odds , And wonder if being disciplined if they would even know
how or why that came about?

 

[360watt]

You said

"An unfaithful believer will experience discipline from Jesus. They will be quickened to flee sin..but He won't leave the believer."

So considering "And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him. Heb 11:6"

I personally find the words unfaithful and believer to be at odds , And wonder if being disciplined if they would even know
how or why that came about?

David was unfaithful at times. Job was. The Corinthians were considered carnal by Paul. A huge chunk of christian men these days have issues with lust with easy access to internet porn.. I could go on and on and on.

They would definitely know when they are disciplined. It's an exruciating experience.. hence why most don't stay in those wayward ways. They may get kicked from their church, lose close relationship with friends.. lose their marriage. God may even end their life if they stay in the sin to keep them from harming others.

Parents don't stop being parents to their offspring. Offspring can't be unborn. Neither can a believer be unborn from God's family.


Eternal life given.. means eternal life. Not temporary life. Not a higher purchase agreement.

John 5:24, 6:40, 10:28.

I should say there are two categories.. someone who is saved.. and then someone who is saved and faithful to Jesus. Both categories are in the bible.