"If we are REALLY guilty—then there has to be a solution to the guilt problem."
- Thread starter Diserner
- Start date
Aeliana
Well-known member
A good defense attorney?
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
2 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, awe have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
1-John-1-9--2-2
Jesus Christ is our Advocate with the Father. The word advocate has Latin roots meaning “one who pleads for another.” The Savior pleads for us, using understanding, justice, and mercy. Knowing this can fill us with love and gratitude for His Atonement.
Confession of sin opens a person to the work of God within them, relinquishing the power of sin over their life through the power of Jesus. John is not suggesting that the act of confession is required for salvation. God does the saving work; people cannot save themselves. Instead, confession opens a person to the work of the Holy Spirit, leading to the removal of sinful behaviors and desires.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
2 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, awe have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
1-John-1-9--2-2
Jesus Christ is our Advocate with the Father. The word advocate has Latin roots meaning “one who pleads for another.” The Savior pleads for us, using understanding, justice, and mercy. Knowing this can fill us with love and gratitude for His Atonement.
Confession of sin opens a person to the work of God within them, relinquishing the power of sin over their life through the power of Jesus. John is not suggesting that the act of confession is required for salvation. God does the saving work; people cannot save themselves. Instead, confession opens a person to the work of the Holy Spirit, leading to the removal of sinful behaviors and desires.
civic
Well-known member
Amen
Diserner
Well-known member
Suppose we saw the believing sinner holding up his hand at God’s bar—the books opened, the accuser of the brethren present, the witnesses ready, and the Judge on the bench thus bespeaking the sinner at the bar:
“O sinner, sinner, thou standest here indicted before Me for many millions of sins of commission and for many millions of sins of omission. Thou hast broken My holy, just, and righteous Laws beyond all human conception or expression, and hereof thou art proved guilty. What hast thou now to say for thyself why thou shouldst not be eternally cast?”
Upon this the sinner pleads guilty.
But withal he earnestly desires that he may have time and liberty to plead for himself and to offer his reasons why that dreadful sentence “Go, you cursed…” should not be passed upon him.
The liberty desired being granted by the Judge, the sinner pleads that his Surety, Jesus Christ, hath by His blood and sufferings given full and complete satisfaction to divine justice and that He hath paid down upon the nail the whole debt at once, and that it can never stand with the holiness and unspotted justice of God to demand satisfaction twice.
If the Judge shall further object, “Ay, but sinner, sinner, the Law requires an exact and perfect righteousness in the personal fulfilling of it. Now, sinner, where is thy exact and perfect righteousness?”
Upon which the believing sinner very readily, cheerfully, humbly, and boldly replies, “My righteousness is upon the bench: ‘In the Lord have I righteousness.’ Christ, my Surety, hath fulfilled the Law on my behalf.
His obeying the Law to the full, His perfect conforming to its commands, His doing, as well as His dying obedience is by grace made over and reckoned to me in order to my justification and salvation.
And this is my plea, by which I will stand before the Judge of all the world."
Upon this, the sinner’s plea is accepted as good in Law, and accordingly he is pronounced righteous and goes away glorying and rejoicing, triumphing and shouting it out, “Righteous, righteous, righteous, righteous!”
“In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.”
— Thomas Brooks
“O sinner, sinner, thou standest here indicted before Me for many millions of sins of commission and for many millions of sins of omission. Thou hast broken My holy, just, and righteous Laws beyond all human conception or expression, and hereof thou art proved guilty. What hast thou now to say for thyself why thou shouldst not be eternally cast?”
Upon this the sinner pleads guilty.
But withal he earnestly desires that he may have time and liberty to plead for himself and to offer his reasons why that dreadful sentence “Go, you cursed…” should not be passed upon him.
The liberty desired being granted by the Judge, the sinner pleads that his Surety, Jesus Christ, hath by His blood and sufferings given full and complete satisfaction to divine justice and that He hath paid down upon the nail the whole debt at once, and that it can never stand with the holiness and unspotted justice of God to demand satisfaction twice.
If the Judge shall further object, “Ay, but sinner, sinner, the Law requires an exact and perfect righteousness in the personal fulfilling of it. Now, sinner, where is thy exact and perfect righteousness?”
Upon which the believing sinner very readily, cheerfully, humbly, and boldly replies, “My righteousness is upon the bench: ‘In the Lord have I righteousness.’ Christ, my Surety, hath fulfilled the Law on my behalf.
His obeying the Law to the full, His perfect conforming to its commands, His doing, as well as His dying obedience is by grace made over and reckoned to me in order to my justification and salvation.
And this is my plea, by which I will stand before the Judge of all the world."
Upon this, the sinner’s plea is accepted as good in Law, and accordingly he is pronounced righteous and goes away glorying and rejoicing, triumphing and shouting it out, “Righteous, righteous, righteous, righteous!”
“In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.”
— Thomas Brooks
Diserner
Well-known member
It would be nice if you would clearly and consistently admit you throw out all perfect and real justice concerning sin.
A sin that never gets punished, a Law that is never fulfilled, a Jesus who just has "blood" that does stuff without any legal implications.
That would help people to see how unbiblical what you claim the Bible says is.
As if the Bible were not completely full of affirmations and assertions that God never violates justice.
As if the Bible were not completely full of descriptions that sin must be punished.
As if the Bible were not completely full of descriptions of Christ suffering and bearing what sins deserves for us.
And when the verses are quoted you say "THEY DON'T SAY WHAT THEY SAY."
Then you say "Go read my humongous posts and random Bible verses that don't connect logically to anything I'm asserting and it proves it."
No, your big posts and random spammed proof texts don't say anything like what you assert.
I say this in love, but this is a far worse deception than Calvinism ever was:
To deny Jesus suffered on our behalf the punishment of our sins.
Wickedness!
civic
Well-known member
Nice try I addressed all your above claims and assumptions in the PSA thread proving both biblically and historically it’s wrong .
And the evil is saying the Father was administering His anger, retribution, vengeance, wrath on the Son.
The divided , dysfunctional and unloving God who is against Himself in the atonement. That’s why Expiation is the biblical solution.
Maybe try attacking the argument with Scripture instead of attacking the person ( ad hominem ).
I provided a plethora of scriptures in my thread defending my position.
hope this helps !!!
e v e
Well-known member
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civic
Well-known member
Amen the innocent , holy and sinless one was not Judged.
Rockson
Well-known member
I like the OP approach in bringing an individual to a place of understanding the need for one to understand substation in regard to what Jesus did. It's a beginning stage and you can't just impart a great many things in one day.
I've seen a problem through the years though where many Christians basically just believed they received pardon from sins. There is so much more than that....there's becoming born again, and what it means to walk in the light as he is in the light and the necessarily to do so.
There's an understanding we're to accept that when one comes to God they're surrendering to the Lordship of Christ where he becomes your director, leader and King and it's his will not our will be done. It's a whole life dedicated to God but the man's approach in the video is good. But after that it's time to walk down the road of discipleship .
I've seen a problem through the years though where many Christians basically just believed they received pardon from sins. There is so much more than that....there's becoming born again, and what it means to walk in the light as he is in the light and the necessarily to do so.
There's an understanding we're to accept that when one comes to God they're surrendering to the Lordship of Christ where he becomes your director, leader and King and it's his will not our will be done. It's a whole life dedicated to God but the man's approach in the video is good. But after that it's time to walk down the road of discipleship .
