e v e
Well-known member
so now i have answered the question and no need to worry about that.
ive also answered it, discussing the same, many times on the other forums and here.
Ive never hidden it.
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How we got our Bible
- Thread starter PapaLandShark
- Start date
ive also answered it, discussing the same, many times on the other forums and here.
Ive never hidden it.
Eleazar
Member
That's why I like history
e v e
Well-known member
last thing.....
you know civic personally, i mean by that, in real life person to person, right?
so how would you think he would do something like that?
I observe, as much as can be online,
that he tries to be kind to others here.
EclipseEventSigns
Well-known member
Do you mind posting a link to that exact source for this? In context? I find your interpretation quite surprising and would like to know how this view can be supported.
I tried to find the 1925 version but couldn't. But I did find the 1901 version and the 1912 version, I think. Nothing on page 41 even comes close to saying that Israelites were not Jewish. I don't see how that can be supported based on the meaning of both those terms. "Jewish" means "of the tribe of Judah". Judah was one of the 12 sons of Israel (Jacob). That interpretation denies the very facts in the Old Testament.
And stating that "Christ is not jewish"? That statement can not be supported by Scripture. Messiah Jesus was the son of Mary. This is attested to by the very first words of the first Gospel, Matthew. The genealogy is there to prove that Jesus was a direct descendant of King David, of the tribe of Judah (ie. Jewish). Even on page 41 of Volume 5, the statement is there that King David of Israel existed.
e v e
Well-known member
the genealogy that matters is heaven's...
will try to find the post I made on another forum but they lost many posts when re-installing their site. And will look if the page from the encyclopedia is on scribd or archive org. The encyclopedia is downloadable on scribd but I don't know which editions are there now.
The point is that Christs Nature is of heaven, Christianity is of Christ who is deity and with God at Creation, not of judaism which is a religion that rejected him. Hebrew is more clear a term imo.
I notice a while ago that a revised newer intro to the encyclopedia scrubbed that bit... I will go look.
EclipseEventSigns
Well-known member
Unfortunately, no. The Word of God is the ultimate authority. That is why God gave the Scriptures to humans in the first place. The question that will need to be addressed: does the genealogy found in Matthew reflect the fact that Jesus was born to the Jewish Mary a direct descendant of King David, the Israelite king?
GeneZ
Well-known member
I was brought up Jewish. Christ is Jewish. Its Jews that are only biologically Jews that are not "Jewish."
The soldiers twisted together a crown of thorns and put it on his head.
They clothed him in a purple robe and went up to him again and again,
saying, “Hail, king of the Jews!” And they slapped him in the face." John 19:2-3
He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him." John 1:11
If anything? Jesus was manifested as the Perfect Jew. In the Gospels Jesus was presenting to the world Perfect Judaism, not Christianity.
grace and peace .............
e v e
Well-known member
on another forum i was accused of being anti semite, long time ago. So just to remove that idea, I am of sephardic descent per spanish govt. records... apparently many were ejected from Spain and Spain allows reclamation of spanish citizenship to me, if i wanted it, based on those records. (My family converted to catholicism and remained in spain.)
I could not find the quote yet, and think it must be in vol1, the introduction. Still looking... however I found an interesting book on scribd, recounting the history of assimilation into judaism by other groups up to 1200 ad (in its chapter 2) and noting the low number of original israelites that the styling of the term jewish encompasses. This is basically what the editor of the encyclopedia recounted, that the modern jew is not the ancient israelite. The book title mentioned on scribd is "The non-jewish origins of the sephardic jews." Written by Paul Wexler. (Chapter 1 is about ethnic myths regarding the jews.) I am sure there are all kinds of arguments. Just as we see on forums.
This mixing, means that what came to be jewish included those who were not hebrews and is the natural result, in my opinion, of the dispersion after the OT fathers disobeyed God. They mixed with and became subject to or assimilated to other peoples in either direction. The result of disobedience, and then 'assimilation' I believe would be more confusion about what God said. We have as well in the OT, more isolated cases of unions which go outside the israelite group, such as by abraham.
All that said, it was a silly point on my part since the lineage of the flesh body (which is corrupt!) is of no importance. The point is the soul not flesh genealogy.
Christianity is belief in Christ and certainly, in the OT, Hebrew Souls believed in and met Christ and belong to Christ and we will see them in paradise soon... The prophets were in christ.
Also there are those who did not accept Christ in the OT and NT.
judaism does not accept Christ.
I could not find the quote yet, and think it must be in vol1, the introduction. Still looking... however I found an interesting book on scribd, recounting the history of assimilation into judaism by other groups up to 1200 ad (in its chapter 2) and noting the low number of original israelites that the styling of the term jewish encompasses. This is basically what the editor of the encyclopedia recounted, that the modern jew is not the ancient israelite. The book title mentioned on scribd is "The non-jewish origins of the sephardic jews." Written by Paul Wexler. (Chapter 1 is about ethnic myths regarding the jews.) I am sure there are all kinds of arguments. Just as we see on forums.
This mixing, means that what came to be jewish included those who were not hebrews and is the natural result, in my opinion, of the dispersion after the OT fathers disobeyed God. They mixed with and became subject to or assimilated to other peoples in either direction. The result of disobedience, and then 'assimilation' I believe would be more confusion about what God said. We have as well in the OT, more isolated cases of unions which go outside the israelite group, such as by abraham.
All that said, it was a silly point on my part since the lineage of the flesh body (which is corrupt!) is of no importance. The point is the soul not flesh genealogy.
Christianity is belief in Christ and certainly, in the OT, Hebrew Souls believed in and met Christ and belong to Christ and we will see them in paradise soon... The prophets were in christ.
Also there are those who did not accept Christ in the OT and NT.
judaism does not accept Christ.
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e v e
Well-known member
the genealogy of importance, to emphasize, is the transcendent one, that Christ is God's son and our deity.
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GeneZ
Well-known member
Hmmmmm.... Tell that to Paul, Matthew, Mark, John, Jude, Peter, Timothy........ (did I forget anyone?)
Also... tell my brother. Tell my sister. And, while you are at it? Tell me.
My father was one of the founders of the synagogue I had my bar mitzvah in.....
Diserner
Well-known member
No.
The Bible teaches that all are sinners and fall short of the glory of God.
We are all capable of sin and have sinned—the nicest of us, the sweetest of us, the best of us—we all sin and are capable of it.
We all can be guilty of favoritism and compromising important truths just to get others to like us.
Civic, in the past, has been very unkind to me both here and the previous forum on Carm.
I forgive these things, but honestly, just because he will pick one person to always defend, does not mean he is somehow "kind" to all people.
I think he is improving, but your experience with civic is, is not unbiased.
Overjoyed
Member
I can understand where Eve is coming from when she says that Jesus is not Jewish If you look at it along these lines.
The Definition of Chalcedon says that in the one person of Christ are united a true human nature and a true divine nature without confusion, mixture, division, or separation. In other words, when the Son of God, who from all eternity possessed the divine nature, added to Himself a human nature, each nature retained its own attributes. The divine nature did not become human and the human nature did not become divine. Neither were the natures mixed together such that Christ was a strange human-divine hybrid, neither truly human nor truly divine. No, Christ was and remains the God-man. This is a mystery we cannot fully comprehend, but we must affirm it. If Christ is not truly human, He cannot atone for our sin, for only a human being can atone for the sin of other human beings. If Christ is not truly God, the atonement He offers does not have sufficient value to be applied to all the elect. If Christ is not the God-man, there is no salvation.
This is what is called the hypostatic union: Christ is one person with two natures. We know that his divine nature did not have blood but his human nature did have blood. And that blood came from the line of David. So the DNA of Jesus was definitely Jewish.
I can understand why Christianity wasn't real keen on that idea and I believe that's how anti-semitism came about.
This explains it better than I can:
To wrench Jesus out of his Jewish world destroys Jesus and destroys Christianity, the religion that grew out of his teachings. Even Jesus’ most familiar role as Christ is a Jewish role. If Christians leave the concrete realities of Jesus’ life and of the history of Israel in favor of a mythic, universal, spiritual Jesus and an otherworldly kingdom of God, they deny their origins in Israel, their history, and the God who has loved and protected Israel and the church. They cease to interpret the actual Jesus sent by God and remake him in their own image and likeness. The dangers are obvious. If Christians violently wrench Jesus out of his natural, ethnic and historical place within the people of Israel, they open the way to doing equal violence to Israel, the place and people of Jesus. This is a lesson of history that haunts us all at the end of the 20th century. by Anthony J. Saldarini originally appeared in Bible Review, June 1999
The Definition of Chalcedon says that in the one person of Christ are united a true human nature and a true divine nature without confusion, mixture, division, or separation. In other words, when the Son of God, who from all eternity possessed the divine nature, added to Himself a human nature, each nature retained its own attributes. The divine nature did not become human and the human nature did not become divine. Neither were the natures mixed together such that Christ was a strange human-divine hybrid, neither truly human nor truly divine. No, Christ was and remains the God-man. This is a mystery we cannot fully comprehend, but we must affirm it. If Christ is not truly human, He cannot atone for our sin, for only a human being can atone for the sin of other human beings. If Christ is not truly God, the atonement He offers does not have sufficient value to be applied to all the elect. If Christ is not the God-man, there is no salvation.
This is what is called the hypostatic union: Christ is one person with two natures. We know that his divine nature did not have blood but his human nature did have blood. And that blood came from the line of David. So the DNA of Jesus was definitely Jewish.
I can understand why Christianity wasn't real keen on that idea and I believe that's how anti-semitism came about.
This explains it better than I can:
To wrench Jesus out of his Jewish world destroys Jesus and destroys Christianity, the religion that grew out of his teachings. Even Jesus’ most familiar role as Christ is a Jewish role. If Christians leave the concrete realities of Jesus’ life and of the history of Israel in favor of a mythic, universal, spiritual Jesus and an otherworldly kingdom of God, they deny their origins in Israel, their history, and the God who has loved and protected Israel and the church. They cease to interpret the actual Jesus sent by God and remake him in their own image and likeness. The dangers are obvious. If Christians violently wrench Jesus out of his natural, ethnic and historical place within the people of Israel, they open the way to doing equal violence to Israel, the place and people of Jesus. This is a lesson of history that haunts us all at the end of the 20th century. by Anthony J. Saldarini originally appeared in Bible Review, June 1999
e v e
Well-known member
the religion called judaism doesn't accept that Christ is our savior. I was not referring to specific people.
interesting. I was looking for that citation still and found this about the mixing of peoples.
Encyclopaedia Iranica Online
"Encyclopaedia Iranica Online" published on by Brill.
referenceworks.brillonline.com
e v e
Well-known member
On this earth Christ was obviously hebrew. i am simply saying that what was hebrew in the OT and what is termed jewish today are not the same.
Just as today modern christianity is often far from ancient sense of Christian, before medieval times, which is reflected in kierkegaard's regretful remark about 'philistine christianity'. In ancient times this just referred to judah. Mixing of cultures renders terms differently than how they were understood by the ancients.
How Did the Word "Jew" Become Identified with the Jewish People?
How did the name Yehuda become the name most identified with the Jewish People and evolve into its derivative, "Jew?"
www.hartman.org.il
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e v e
Well-known member
Paul is a hebrew soul and so am I.
my point is i only care about your soul. All God's souls are hebrew souls. Therefore Christian.
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e v e
Well-known member
There could be a person who goes to synagogue who came from Him and will be in paradise.
There could be another in the synagogue who is not His at all. Many are confused and He will sort that out soon.All who are His will give Him allegiance.
That is why Christ will separate wheat from chaff, not us! He knows who is His.
There could be another in the synagogue who is not His at all. Many are confused and He will sort that out soon.All who are His will give Him allegiance.
That is why Christ will separate wheat from chaff, not us! He knows who is His.
Molly
New member
As we respond to others who disagree with us let us remember these were written for our instruction.
1 Corinthians 13
If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs
1 Peter 3:15
But in your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give a defense to everyone who asks you the reason for the hope that is in you. But respond with gentleness and respect,
Colossians 4:6
Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.
Ephesians 4:29
Let no unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building up the one in need and bringing grace to those who listen.
1 Corinthians 13
If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs
1 Peter 3:15
But in your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give a defense to everyone who asks you the reason for the hope that is in you. But respond with gentleness and respect,
Colossians 4:6
Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.
Ephesians 4:29
Let no unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building up the one in need and bringing grace to those who listen.
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