The Thousand Year Reign

[Red Baker]

@Studyman

What was "Finished" David?

Not what you and others think, teach and believe.

It does not mean that I have made salvation "possible" for everybody......nor, does it mean, I have now done my part, now you must do your part!

What it does means is this:

"It is finished, actually, completely and perfectly, effectually, unconditionally, absoultely, everlasting and immutably for my sheep!"
This is the true biblically meaning of the words IT IS FINISHED!

When He said “It is FINISHED!” He meant … “It is FINISHED!” The redemption of every soul for whom He died was COMPLETED, PERFECTED, ACCOMPLISHED, ACHIEVED, FINALIZED.

You and others say: “It is finished HYPOTHETICALLY! – as in “I made redemption possible for everyone.” You and others say He meant “It is finished PARTLY! – as in “I have done My part, but now you must do yours.” You and others say He meant “It is finished PROVISIONALLY! – as in “I have provided redemption for all who will of their own freewill have it.” You and others say He meant “It is finished CONDITIONALLY!” – as in “I have redeemed you if you meet the condition.”

When Jesus Christ said “It is finished!” He meant … “It is finished – ACTUALLY, COMPLETELY, PERFECTLY, EFFECTUALLY, UNCONDITIONALLY, ABSOLUTELY, EVERLASTINGLY, IMMUTABLY, PERIOD!”

Not one single solitary sinner for whom Jesus Christ died will die unredeemed and be condemned and consigned to the lake of fire which is the second death. .

Rather, each and every sinner for whom Jesus Christ died is redeemed and will join the heavenly hosts in singing to Him, “Thou art worthy . . . for Thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by Thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation!” (Revelation 5:9).

“Let the redeemed of the LORD say so!” (Psalm 107:2).

 

[Studyman]

You don’t fellowship with other believers face to face in person so who are you fooling ?

Since it is your tradition to promote the imaginations of your own heart, regardless of the truth, it is futile to tell you the truth, given you have already declared your imagination. Nevertheless, I gather face to face with 10 believers every Holy Sabbath of God. These are men who "press towards the Prize" of the high calling of God, "perfection" which is in Christ Jesus. A perfection I have not yet achieved. Of course you will mock us. Yesterday, a fellow believer brought up Joseph, who through no fault of his own was betrayed by his own brothers, sold into a pagan religion, thrown in jail for something he didn't do, revealed the meaning of a dream through the power of the Christ, the Holy One of Israel, asking only that his deed might be shown to the king, which it wasn't. All these things can have the appearance of wickedness, the appearance even of punishment. But they were neither. They were tests of Josephs Faith, written down to prepare us for the fiery trials that will test our faith as well. And even though it would most certainly seem like Christ had abandoned Joseph, he never lost faith. And it was all done by the Holy One of Israel for GOOD. It was actually though this Faith Joseph maintained, that he was able to be released from prison, and given a position of power in Egypt for the saving of his father Jacob, and the preserving of his sons who because of malice and hatred for no cause, betrayed Joseph in the first place.

And since Paul says these Words were inspired by the "Rock", the Holy One of Israel, and were specifically written for our admonition "upon whom the ends of the world have come", we discuss every Sabbath what they mean for those who, like Paul, "Yield themselves" to God, Holy, Acceptable to God, which is only our reasonable service.

Now you and Red and David and "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, promote a religious system of this world that reject God's Judgments as beggarly elements and worthless Jewish Traditions, and therefore create their own judgments. A religion that refuses to submit to God's Righteousness and instead, goes about establishing their own righteousness. A religious system that rejects the Christ's Feasts, which are shadows of things yet to come, and create instead their own high days, which are shadows of nothing. And they are only your traditions, because you have adopted them, just as we we did "Wherein in time past we walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience".

But why would we turn again to the Beggarly Elements of this world's religious system, having been created in Christ Jesus "unto Good works which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them"??

Why would we go away from the Christ, "of the Bible"? After all "it is HE that has the Words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that HE is that Christ, the Son of the living God".

Where else would a man go, and who else would a man "Yield himself" a servant to obey, but the Holy One of Israel, who became mortal flesh? After all, Paul says we are servants to whom we obey.

Shall we condemn ourselves and our family, just so the promoters of this world's religious system will say nice things about us?

And who knows if there is someone on this forum that has been kicking against the pricks, as Paul did during the stoning of Stephen, and might need to hear the perspective of a nobody that has not adopted the traditions and philosophies of this world's religious system?

So you are wrong about me concerning who I assemble with. What spirit would influence you to make such a false declaration? Perhaps if you sought God's Truth, with as much zeal as you seek justification of your own religion, we could have an honest discussion of Scriptures, like I have every week with others?

This is still my hope.

 

[Studyman]

If you have not come to Christ, the messages are important to heed. I am not entering in a conversation unless I have a sense whether you have something worth hearing. Usually when a person claims to be the minority who is truly of God, I become suspicious of the deception that has taken hold of them.

That is a common thread throughout the Holy scriptures. Caleb and Joshua believed the "Rock's Word", while the majority, who "professed to know God", didn't. Abraham believed the Holy One of Israel's Word, while the masses like Sodom and Gomorra didn't. Moses believed the Holy One of Israel's Word, while most of the children of Israel didn't. Jesus believed Moses and the Prophets, while the mainstream preachers of His Time didn't.

So it is perfectly normal human flesh to be suspicious of someone who believes what is actually written, over the popular religious philosophies promoted by this world's religious system.

I always believe "Every Word" of God is worth hearing. But I am certainly in the minority in the world God placed me in.

 

[civic]

Since it is your tradition to promote the imaginations of your own heart, regardless of the truth, it is futile to tell you the truth, given you have already declared your imagination. Nevertheless, I gather face to face with 10 believers every Holy Sabbath of God. These are men who "press towards the Prize" of the high calling of God, "perfection" which is in Christ Jesus. A perfection I have not yet achieved. Of course you will mock us. Yesterday, a fellow believer brought up Joseph, who through no fault of his own was betrayed by his own brothers, sold into a pagan religion, thrown in jail for something he didn't do, revealed the meaning of a dream through the power of the Christ, the Holy One of Israel, asking only that his deed might be shown to the king, which it wasn't. All these things can have the appearance of wickedness, the appearance even of punishment. But they were neither. They were tests of Josephs Faith, written down to prepare us for the fiery trials that will test our faith as well. And even though it would most certainly seem like Christ had abandoned Joseph, he never lost faith. And it was all done by the Holy One of Israel for GOOD. It was actually though this Faith Joseph maintained, that he was able to be released from prison, and given a position of power in Egypt for the saving of his father Jacob, and the preserving of his sons who because of malice and hatred for no cause, betrayed Joseph in the first place.

And since Paul says these Words were inspired by the "Rock", the Holy One of Israel, and were specifically written for our admonition "upon whom the ends of the world have come", we discuss every Sabbath what they mean for those who, like Paul, "Yield themselves" to God, Holy, Acceptable to God, which is only our reasonable service.

Now you and Red and David and "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, promote a religious system of this world that reject God's Judgments as beggarly elements and worthless Jewish Traditions, and therefore create their own judgments. A religion that refuses to submit to God's Righteousness and instead, goes about establishing their own righteousness. A religious system that rejects the Christ's Feasts, which are shadows of things yet to come, and create instead their own high days, which are shadows of nothing. And they are only your traditions, because you have adopted them, just as we we did "Wherein in time past we walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience".

But why would we turn again to the Beggarly Elements of this world's religious system, having been created in Christ Jesus "unto Good works which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them"??

Why would we go away from the Christ, "of the Bible"? After all "it is HE that has the Words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that HE is that Christ, the Son of the living God".

Where else would a man go, and who else would a man "Yield himself" a servant to obey, but the Holy One of Israel, who became mortal flesh? After all, Paul says we are servants to whom we obey.

Shall we condemn ourselves and our family, just so the promoters of this world's religious system will say nice things about us?

And who knows if there is someone on this forum that has been kicking against the pricks, as Paul did during the stoning of Stephen, and might need to hear the perspective of a nobody that has not adopted the traditions and philosophies of this world's religious system?

So you are wrong about me concerning who I assemble with. What spirit would influence you to make such a false declaration? Perhaps if you sought God's Truth, with as much zeal as you seek justification of your own religion, we could have an honest discussion of Scriptures, like I have every week with others?

This is still my hope.

what day of the week is the holy sabbath ?

also you only meet with them once a week and no other time ?

how did you meet these other 9-10 men ?

also how is your beliefs/meeting any different from any other sect or cult ?

are you all equal ?

is there a spiritual leader ? teacher, pastor or elder ?

anyone of these men have any spiritual education in a seminary ?

also an honest discussion begins with being an honest person and answering questions so that we can get to know you as a person.

hope this helps !!!

 

[civic]

Since it is your tradition to promote the imaginations of your own heart, regardless of the truth, it is futile to tell you the truth, given you have already declared your imagination.

Of course you will mock us.

And since Paul says these Words were inspired by the "Rock", the Holy One of Israel, and were specifically written for our admonition "upon whom the ends of the world have come", we discuss every Sabbath what they mean for those who, like Paul, "Yield themselves" to God, Holy, Acceptable to God, which is only our reasonable service.

Now you and Red and David and "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, promote a religious system of this world that reject God's Judgments as beggarly elements and worthless Jewish Traditions, and therefore create their own judgments. A religion that refuses to submit to God's Righteousness and instead, goes about establishing their own righteousness. A religious system that rejects the Christ's Feasts, which are shadows of things yet to come, and create instead their own high days, which are shadows of nothing. And they are only your traditions, because you have adopted them, just as we we did "Wherein in time past we walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience".


Shall we condemn ourselves and our family, just so the promoters of this world's religious system will say nice things about us?

And who knows if there is someone on this forum that has been kicking against the pricks, as Paul did during the stoning of Stephen, and might need to hear the perspective of a nobody that has not adopted the traditions and philosophies of this world's religious system?

What spirit would influence you to make such a false declaration? Perhaps if you sought God's Truth, with as much zeal as you seek justification of your own religion, we could have an honest discussion of Scriptures, like I have every week with others?

This is still my hope.

I left all of your ad hominems above in your post so that everyone can see how everyone else is despised , looked down upon as being in a false religious system while your belief system remains exempt.

I have some great conversations with members here daily and some of them we talk on the phone or FaceTime. So my relationships with several members here on the forum go beyond this forum and are personal relationships outside of this forum.

 

[DavidTree]

OH, so now I'm "alluding" that Christ continues to suffer in His Father's Mansion, while HE prepares a place for us.

You should just stop David.


Telling lies about people is a sin, and un-Christlike. Telling people the truth may offend them, but if they are insults, then Jesus was guilty of insulting all of the promoters of the mainstream religious system of the world God placed Him in.



What was "Finished" David?

His prophesied resurrection from the dead? NO! That prophesy wasn't "Finished" until 3 days and 3 nights later?

His prophesied ascension to His Father? NO! That prophesy had not yet been fulfilled while Jesus was on the cross.

Was His Prophesied return to gather His People and take them to His Father's Mansion "Finished" on the Cross? No, HE had to be raised from the dead first, and given immortality. Neither of these things were "Finished" on the Cross.

So the Biblical TRUTH is, and you can read it for yourself, is that not "ALL" was prophesy concerning the Lord's Christ was "Finished" on the Cross. But the Prophesy of the virgin birth, life of being despised, ridiculed, suffering and torture and murder of the Holy One of Israel, the Word of God who became a mortal human known as "Jesus", was "Finished" on the Cross.

Just because you have adopted a religion that doesn't teach you these undeniable Biblical Truths, doesn't make them any less true.



Yes, His Suffering was "Finished" on the Cross once and for all. I have never "alluded" anything different. But all Prophesy regarding the purpose of His Suffering, has yet to be fulfilled. As His Words that I post, and you still refuse to even acknowledge exist, clearly teach.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go (Which I believe HE did) and prepare a place for you, I will come again, (Which I believe He will) and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

And because I believe in His Words, some of which bring into question your adopted religious philosophy, you promote lies about my post. Perhaps you didn't mean to, maybe you made a mistake, rushed to judgment, any of a number of things. But one thing is absolutely true, not "ALL" the Prophesies concerning the Lord's Christ, were Fulfilled in the cross. And I never said, suggested or even implied that Jesus' suffering continued after HE was raised from the dead.

Yes, His Suffering was "Finished" on the Cross once and for all. I have never "alluded" anything different

GREAT

Always begin with the Truth as it is the only Foundation to stand on, to die on and to Rise on.

 

[Red Baker]

@civic

is there a spiritual leader ? teacher, pastor or elder ?

Pastor is not an office but what an elder does, and even he is not to be consider a spiritual leader, and yes, they all are brethren. Your questions are truly not fair for him to answer, more than that, not even biblical. Maybe the sabbath is fair, since it is not mandatory for us to keep the Jewish Sabbath and Jewish it is.

 

[Red Baker]

@Studyman

So it is perfectly normal human flesh to be suspicious of someone who believes what is actually written, over the popular religious philosophies promoted by this world's religious system.

The problem with your assumption and an assumption it is, is that you live in a very small part of the scripture and even then cannot defend your teachings and certainly cannot prove others positions are not scriptural. I know by experience dealing with you. You put on a spiritual façade, but underneath is pure Phariseeism of Christ's day.

I always believe "Every Word" of God is worth hearing. But I am certainly in the minority in the world God placed me in.

I would dare say, every person who is here on this forum could and would say the same, so it is not a matter of saying that, it is can we prove it by the manner in which we defend the scriptures, that alone truly proves if that statement is worth being true from our lips.

 

[civic]

@civic

Pastor is not an office but what an elder does, and even he is not to be consider a spiritual leader, and yes, they all are brethren. Your questions are truly not fair for him to answer, more than that, not even biblical. Maybe the sabbath is fair, since it is not mandatory for us to keep the Jewish Sabbath and Jewish it is.

Elders are a part of every local church in the NT. So are teachers and all the other spiritual gifts God gives believers to build up the body

 

[Studyman]

what day of the week is the holy sabbath ?

The Christ you call Lord, Lord tells you Civic. It can be found in the Gospel of Christ where Paul says the Righteousness of God is revealed. If you are interested in knowing the God and Father of the Lord's Christ, I highly recommend you consider the Holy Scriptures. Paul says God "Instruction in righteousness" can be found there and trusted.

also you only meet with them once a week and no other time ?

No

how did you meet these other 9-10 men?

They also saw the wicked hypocrisy and the chaos and disrespect for the Holy One of Israel, promoted by this world's religious system you have adopted. And the Christ over the years brought us together. Some through business dealings, one while ice fishing for walleye.

also how is your beliefs/meeting any different from any other sect or cult?

God's church is not a sect, or a cult. We study scriptures, not sermons from "gotquestions.org."

are you all equal?

Everyone has sinned and comes short of the Glory of God.

is there a spiritual leader ? teacher, pastor or elder ?

Of course, the Jesus "of the Bible" is my Spiritual Leader as according to HIM, HIS Words are Spirit and Life, Moses, Paul. James, Peter Isaiah etc., are our pasters, sent by the Christ to give us the Examples HE prepared for our admonition. Remember preacher, it is the Holy Scriptures that Paul said was trustworthy "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works".

John 6: 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

That's why I post them all the time, because I trust them.

anyone of thee men have any spiritual education in a seminary ?

Of course not. Why would a man PAY a religious school that despises Christ's Judgments and creates their own, to teach them how to do the same?

Paul was trained by the premiere religious school of this world's religious system of his time, and what did it get him.

A religious sect that the Holy One of Israel said "walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted". A religious sect that "persecuted the church of God", that is, that persecuted men who "Yielded themselves" servants to obey God, who became "servants of God's Righteousness, not servants to this world's religous system. A religious sect that murdered Jesus and Stephen for simply telling them the truth.

Why on earth would we follow that tradition. Jesus didn't.

Jesus was Learned of the Father, like Zacharias and Simeon and Anna learned of the Father. Through Moses and the Prophets. That is why Jesus said to Listen to Moses, but not the teaching of the religious sect of the Pharisees.

also an honest discussion begins with being an honest person and answering questions so that we can get to know you as a person.

How many questions have I asked you over the last year, that you simply refused to answer? How many scriptures have I posted for your review and discussion that you completely ignored. They are too many to number. Am I to believe that all the sudden, you are now interested in getting to know me?

Come on Civic, I'm a no-body for sure, but I'm not completely stupid.

 

[mikesw]

That is a common thread throughout the Holy scriptures. Caleb and Joshua believed the "Rock's Word", while the majority, who "professed to know God", didn't. Abraham believed the Holy One of Israel's Word, while the masses like Sodom and Gomorra didn't. Moses believed the Holy One of Israel's Word, while most of the children of Israel didn't. Jesus believed Moses and the Prophets, while the mainstream preachers of His Time didn't.

So it is perfectly normal human flesh to be suspicious of someone who believes what is actually written, over the popular religious philosophies promoted by this world's religious system.

I always believe "Every Word" of God is worth hearing. But I am certainly in the minority in the world God placed me in.

And where can we go to worship you in the flesh?

 

[Studyman]

I left all of your ad hominems above in your post so that everyone can see how everyone else is despised , looked down upon as being in a false religious system while your belief system remains exempt.

I have some great conversations with members here daily and some of them we talk on the phone or FaceTime. So my relationships with several members here on the forum go beyond this forum and are personal relationships outside of this forum.

"Neither is his god since he denies the Trinity. A false god leads to a false christ and a false gospel"

"You don’t fellowship with other believers face to face in person so who are you fooling?"

Hypocrite;

The term "hypocrite" refers to a person who feigns desirable attitudes or beliefs while their actions contradict those claims. "Specifically, a hypocrite pretends to uphold moral or ethical standards but fails to practice them in their own life. In essence, it describes someone whose behavior does not align with the moral standards or opinions they profess."

 

[civic]

"Neither is his god since he denies the Trinity. A false god leads to a false christ and a false gospel"

"You don’t fellowship with other believers face to face in person so who are you fooling?"

Hypocrite;

The term "hypocrite" refers to a person who feigns desirable attitudes or beliefs while their actions contradict those claims. "Specifically, a hypocrite pretends to uphold moral or ethical standards but fails to practice them in their own life. In essence, it describes someone whose behavior does not align with the moral standards or opinions they profess."

So are you a trinitarian ?

And as far as I know today is the first day you ever said you meet regularly on a weekly basis with others , but it’s strange that it’s only men with no women or children , parents , grandparents etc…

 

[Red Baker]

@civic

Elders are a part of every local church in the NT. So are teachers and all the other spiritual gifts God gives believers to build up the body

Never said otherwise. What I did say was this:

pastor is not an office but what an elder does

No church in the NT had a single "pastor" over them ~ it was always the work of older men to teach the word of God if they had a gift tot do so.

 

[mikesw]

Mike said: Babylon represents the Jerusalem in a sort of reversal of status.

Mike, not even close! Take the scriptures and prove that, the task is more than you and ten thousand others can do, since you will find no support from the word of God, none whatsoever. You ahve been listening to someone other than the scriptures, where the truth is found.

1 Pet 5:13 refers to "she at Babylon" sending a greeting. This was not an unknown startup church in Iran but was the well-known church located in Jerusalem.
The other indication is that Babylon is represented with sexual immorality which is a theme applied to Jerusalem's situation in relationship to God. We see this in Ezekiel 16:28–29 (ESV)
28You played the whore also with the Assyrians, because you were not satisfied; yes, you played the whore with them, and still you were not satisfied.
29You multiplied your whoring also with the trading land of Chaldea, and even with this you were not satisfied.

This also appears in Rev 14:8
Another angel, a second, followed, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who made all nations drink the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality.”

The immorality is about them failing to honor God properly. That has been the whole story of Israel addressed in the prophets.

 

[civic]

@civic

Never said otherwise. What I did say was this:

No church in the NT had a single "pastor" over them ~ it was always the work of older men to teach the word of God if they had a gift tot do so.

Would you agree that a pastor is synonymous with a shepherd?

 

[Red Baker]

@civic

Would you agree that a pastor is synonymous with a shepherd?

let's start a thread and address church government per the scriptures. For now, elders were bishops in the early church is somethings they do, in pastoring the sheep by feedings, guiding and protecting them, etc. Yet, not one of Paul's church epistles were ever written to a single pastor over a local body of believers, not one. That's an added doctrine by men, who desire to have preeminence over the God's sheep, the spirit of Diotrephes that never died out.

3 John 1:9​

“I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.”

Pastor is not an office, but a work of a bishop who were older men in the faith, that had the gift to teach, guide and instruct and exhort and protect the sheep.

 

[civic]

@civic

let's start a thread and address church government per the scriptures. For now, elders were bishops in the early church is somethings they do, in pastoring the sheep by feedings, guiding and protecting them, etc. Yet, not one of Paul's church epistles were ever written to a single pastor over a local body of believers, not one. That's an added doctrine by men, who desire to have preeminence over the God's sheep, the spirit of Diotrephes that never died out.

3 John 1:9​

“I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.”

Pastor is not an office, but a work of a bishop who were older men in the faith, that had the gift to teach, guide and instruct and exhort and protect the sheep.

Ephesians 4:11-16
11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

16From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

◄ 4166. poimén ►​

Lexicon poimén: Shepherd​ Original Word: ποιμήν Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine Transliteration: poimén Pronunciation: poy-MANE Phonetic Spelling: (poy-mane') KJV: shepherd, pastor NASB: shepherd, shepherds, pastors Word Origin: [of uncertain affinity] 1. a shepherd {literally or figuratively}​

​

 

[Keiw1]

No they didn't. It was left in its original Greek form. We still have it available. It is in England. Catholics didn't translate any of it.

I researched--There are no originals. there are a few minor fragments of NT older than the Latin vulgate and Codex sinacticus-both done in the 4th century by Catholicism.