John 12:32 (KJV 1900) — 32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
He that believes and is not water baptised is saved
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Anja
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So who were the other members? They would have to come from the animal kingdom? And I would imagine they moseyed out of the garden also.
brightfame52
Well-known member
He was saved by Christ/grace, that's why God saw his works as righteous, and why God accepted him and his alms and prayers, thats only possible by being in Christ. He that doeth righteous is righteous 1 Jn 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
Cornelius woked righteousness scripture says Acts 10:34-35
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
To top it off, he was called a righteous, just man in Acts 10 22
22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was
warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.
That word just is dikaios and its the word for righteous, the same word in 1 Jn 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
And he had not been water baptized, neither had he believed the Gospel
brightfame52
Well-known member
All that are drawn believe, thats the Sheep of course
Anja
Member
Now I've heard Calvinist try to explain "The world" That's written in john 3:16 as meaning the elect. But this is the first time I've ever heard Jesus's words about drawing "all men" to mean sheep.
Think for a minute if they are already saved and they're his sheep why would he have to draw them?
"My Sheep Know My Voice" is a phrase from the Bible, specifically John 10:27-28 . The phrase means that the sheep recognize the voice of the shepherd, who feeds them, guides them, and protects them. The sheep have learned to trust the shepherd, and Jesus shields his people from everlasting damage. The shepherd calls his own sheep by name and leads them out, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice.
Truther
Well-known member
I think the passage that stands out the most is Matthew 25. 10 virgins, half of them were left behind. That is quite the challenge to make sure that we are walking with God. That is the difference between walking in the spirit and not walking in the spirit I believe.I look at the scripture that talks about people being lukewarm as followers of Jesus like this. They were just there for the excitement entertainment and the free food. The ones Jesus told to depart from him because he never knew them. And remember we are being transformed into his image.
Keep telling yourself that you're an overcomer. You're a new creation. Your the head and not the tail. God will never leave you nor forsake you.
Perfect love casts out fear.
The Bible says that “love is of God” and “God is love” (1 John 4:7–8); in other words, love is a fundamental characteristic of who God is. Everything God does is impelled and influenced by His love. There is a distinct word for the type of love that God displays. In the Greek, this word is agape, and it refers to a benevolent and charitable love that seeks the best for the loved one.
First John 4:18 says that “perfect love casts out fear.” The whole verse says this: “There is no fear in love. But perfect love casts out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.” The context here is important: verse 17 says, “This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus.”
In summary, the word perfect in 1 John 4:18 means “complete” or “mature,” and the love that is referred to is God’s selfless agape love. The fear that this perfect love drives out is the fear of punishment. We have God’s promise that believers in Jesus Christ will not be judged with the world: “God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Thessalonians 5:9; cf. 1 Corinthians 11:32). We can say with the psalmist, “In God I trust and am not afraid” (Psalm 56:11).
What is the meaning of “perfect love casts out fear” (1 John 4:18)? | GotQuestions.org
What is the meaning of “perfect love casts out fear” (1 John 4:18)? What is the meaning of 1 John 4:18?www.gotquestions.org
Truther
Well-known member
You misunderstand Tom. The name of Jesus has to be spoken during an immersion process. You know, Jesus, as you are stuck on the water part only?
Truther
Well-known member
You just said and quoted where he was saved by works of righteousness. That’s what you’re saying He was saved by. Sounds like you’re backing up on your concept now. Very fishy.
Truther
Well-known member
Again, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is for the remission of sins. The Holy Ghost does not remit our sins. The Holy Ghost seals and assists the believer that is baptized in the name of Jesus. The Holy Ghost does not replace water baptism in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins. It comes along side it. Read Acts 2:38 and concentrate.
Truther
Well-known member
I get what you’re saying, but I would not call that church. Church actually means “called out ones“ or something similar. Adam had a walk with God from his creation. He was not called out of sin like all the rest. He was what we might call“the original”.
Truther
Well-known member
I was doing a rebuttal . Someone else had said that Adam and Eve were the church. Jesus said on this rock, I will build my church. He spoke in the future tense.
Truther
Well-known member
I would say that the church(called out ones) of the Old Testament were called out of Egypt. They were under Moses. They were under the Aaronic priesthood.
The church that Jesus was going to start per Matthew 16 in the near future was called out of sins, and it began in Acts chapter 2. This church is under the order of Melchizedek.
We don’t play by their rules and they don’t play by our rules. These are two different ministries.
The church that Jesus was going to start per Matthew 16 in the near future was called out of sins, and it began in Acts chapter 2. This church is under the order of Melchizedek.
We don’t play by their rules and they don’t play by our rules. These are two different ministries.
all are drawn here
John 12:32 (KJV 1900) — 32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
The word sheep does not appear
brightfame52
Well-known member
Yeah its the sheep
brightfame52
Well-known member
You just cant comprehend. You cant say I didnt explain, you on your own
brightfame52
Well-known member
Dont have to appear for it to still be the Sheep, Sheep appeared in Jn 10, that laid the foundation as to who Jesus draws to Himself by His Death. When He says He must bring His Sheep in Jn 10:16
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Well thats relatively the same as must draw in Jn 12:32
Anja
Member
Well you're not alone in your belief about the sheep. You do have a valid opinion.
WHEN DO CHRIST’S SHEEP BECOME HIS SHEEP?
Author: Jim Elliff“But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep” (John 10:26)
I once heard a man read the above verse and ask, “When does a sheep become a sheep?”
The question is a good one, and has importance in the dialogue in John 10.
Jesus had been talking with Jewish leaders who were not buying in to his viewpoint — especially his claim that he was the Christ. “If you are the Christ, tell us plainly,” they said.
He replies, “I told you, but you do not believe . . .”
Then he states very plainly why they did not believe him — “you are not of my sheep.”
Wait a Minute!
Is Jesus saying that some people are his sheep before believing? It appears to me this is exactly what he is saying.
In fact, Jesus said something similar earlier in the chapter. He had just told the Jews around him that he was the “good shepherd” who lays down his life for the sheep, which is clearly an allusion to the cross. Pay attention to his words because they include you:
I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear my voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd” (John 10:16)
He has other sheep who haven’t yet been brought into his fold? Yes, the sheep who “are not of this fold” is a way of talking about Gentiles. Fifty days after Jesus will die, on the day of Pentecost, the door will be opened wide to Gentiles to believe in Christ. He calls those who will believe, “sheep.” And, he already has them!
What Has He Said Again?
Let’s put it all together:
- Jesus said that he has his sheep prior to their act of believing in him.
- He says that he dies for his sheep.
- He says, “I must bring them.”
- He says that they will “hear my voice.”
- And, he promises that then they “will become one flock with one shepherd.”
What do we see is necessary then for your eternal salvation:
- You must be one of his sheep before you believe.
- He must die for you, which he said he would do effectively for all his sheep.
- You must respond to his voice and believe in him, which he promised will happen to each of his own sheep (see John 10: 26-30).
Rejoice in the Mystery
I admit, it is a mystery as to why one person would be considered one of his sheep, and another not be so. However, we know Christ said it and meant it. None of us would wish to deny that, I’m sure.
I think it is far better to rejoice in it. Don’t be like these Jewish leaders who later picked up stones to throw at him.
It may seem unfair for Jesus to talk like this, but he did, and many times. The truth is, all of us, Jew-born or Gentile-born deserve to die in our sins, separated from God forever. But in his mercy he has chosen to have a huge flock of sheep he will tend for eternity.
If you are one of those, scratch your head, wonder why you were chosen, and rejoice in God’s amazing mercy and his mysterious plan.
Um, all men has no meaning other sheep
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