Wrangler
Well-known member
Ad Hominem. You obviously are reading into the text the nature of God even though the text is silent in it.
More profound is how the Apostles never followed this but baptized only in Jesus name. What do you make of that?
Hallowed Be Thy Name
- Thread starter Wrangler
- Start date
More profound is how the Apostles never followed this but baptized only in Jesus name. What do you make of that?
Wrangler
Well-known member
I’m denigrating the indefensible, inherently contradictory doctrine of the trinity. It is you who are denigrating the Apostles who did not teach the trinity.
In 66 books, it is not mentioned once. You write as though it is the most important point of doctrine.
Typical response. You throw verses against verses hoping your interpretation of your verses overwhelms the clear teachings of another verse. You will never find the truth that way.
If the verses offend you then take it up with the Jesus who initiated the Trinitarian Great Commission and with the Apostles who recorded it and implemented it.
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The Great Commision details how all Apostles and Church authorities are to baptize everyone in the Trinitarian sense throughout the ages.
Wrangler
Well-known member
You are projecting.
Wrangler
Well-known member
Anti-truth. If you put aside you indoctrination and actually read God’s word as written you will find there is not one recorded instance of the Apostles. baptizing in the name of 3. Only in Jesus name do the Apostles record whose name they baptize.
Wrangler
Well-known member
Getting back to the OP, Ex 3:15 explicitly says the eternal name of God is YHWH.
Deuteronomy 6:4 and Is 45:5 says YHWH is the only God.
Jesus says when we pray to keep YHWH’s name holy, which means set apart, which means do not combine with other names - as trinitarians do.
Deuteronomy 6:4 and Is 45:5 says YHWH is the only God.
Jesus says when we pray to keep YHWH’s name holy, which means set apart, which means do not combine with other names - as trinitarians do.
Are you seriously telling me that Jesus' Great Commision Trinitarian Baptist statement went in one ear of the Apostles and out the other, without registering?!? A directive straight from Jesus' mouth would not be obeyed by the Apostles?!? Are you serious?!? I guess that is normal practice in your unitarian circles to disregard what Jesus commands.
Wrangler
Well-known member
What is your explanation for why the Apostles did not record baptizing this way one time but only in Jesus’ name?
APAK
Active member
Really civic, that Jesus is called YHWH many times. In truth, there is none. You take many liberties in generalizing subjects that cannot or should not be open to just your opinion. You need to be grounded in scripture without always introducing this triad god. You accuse those of monotheistic faith that they build strawmen. That is the furthest from the truth as they do not need to when scripture will suffice. On the other hand you must use these devices to ward of, deflector divert, like throwing out chaff when the heat is on. You become an easy target of a incoming heart and mind penetrating missile of the word of God.Except Jesus is called the Holy One as well. He is called YHWN many times too. So your premise is not true.We do not dismiss this attribute of God. God is Holy- Jesus is Holy. Both are Holy and called YHWH.
civic
Well-known member
We see that the Apostle John said that Isaiah saw the glory of Jesus in Isaiah 6 for this was the one and only time Isaiah was in the presence of Yahweh.
Philippians 2: 9-11- the apostle Paul was referring to the Name “Yahweh” when he said,
“God…bestowed on Jesus the Name which is above every name, so that at the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth, and under the earth, and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
It is an indisputable fact that Paul said God bestowed the Name “Yahweh” on Jesus because in Philippians 2: 9-11 he was quoting Isaiah 45: 21-24. This is what Yahweh told Isaiah:
“And there is no other God besides Me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none except Me. Turn to Me, and be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. I have sworn by Myself, the Word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness and will not turn back, that to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance, they will say of Me, ‘Only in Yahweh are righteousness and strength.’ Men will come to Him and all who were angry with Him shall be put to shame.”
Isaiah 43: 11- Yahweh said that He is our only Savior- Even I Am Yahweh and there is no other Savior besides Me. This verse is very clear as to its meaning. We see that Yahweh is the Name God bestowed on Jesus and it is Yahweh which is the Name that is above every name and it is Yahweh to which every knee will bow. There is no mistaking that Paul declares in his epistles that Jesus is the Yahweh of the Hebrew Scriptures. Jesus is our Lord Yahweh in the New Testament as well as our Savior. These were the specific names that were Gods alone in the Old Testament.
Yahweh is the name given by God for Himself. In the OT YHWH and was considered so holy that a devout Jew would not pronounce it. God revealed His name to Moses in Exodus 3:14 When God said, "I Am Who I AM." YHWH is only used to refer to the one true God. His name and glory were not to be given to another. Isaiah wrote:” Thus says the Lord (YHWH)I Am the First and I Am the Last and beside me there is no God. "I Am (YHWH) that is My name; and My Glory I will not give to another, neither My praise to graven images. (Isaiah 42:8) That is why the Jews picked up stones and accused Jesus of blasphemy when He claimed to be YHWH.
Jesus claimed to be the judge of all men (Matt 25:31, John 5:27) Joel quotes Yahweh as saying, "For there I will sit to judge all surrounding nations" (Joel 3:12).Jesus prayed, "Father, glorify Me with Thy own self with the Glory which I had with thee before the world was" (John 17:5) But here we read that YHWH said, "I will not give My Glory to another" (Isaiah 42:8). But we see in Scripture that God/Yahweh offers all His Glory to Jesus.
Christ says, "I Am the first and the last" (Rev 1:17) the exact words used by YHWH in Isaiah 42:28. In John 8:58 where Jesus says:” Before Abraham was born, I Am." Jesus was either "guilty" as the Jews charged Him of blasphemy, or He is who He claimed to be(YHWH). He clearly claimed to be God.
If He is only a good teacher or prophet then He would be a liar as the late CS Lewis once said on par with a poached egg, because He claimed equality with God and no created being has equality with God. The Jews knew and understood His meaning and picked up stones to kill Him for blaspheming. (John 8:58; 10:31-33). We can clearly see the identity of the Almighty God of scripture and He is none other than Jesus who is YHWH(Almighty God) in the flesh. He appeared to men in the OT as the angel(messenger) of the Lord and now is permanently both YHWH and man. He is forever the Godman in the flesh.
hope this helps !!!
APAK
Active member
Really Fred, you must now be called the substitution guy. Just substitute the Greek word 'hagiazo' and also infer YHWH for Christ,in this case - hallowed, or as you say, sanctify, into another completely different setting and context and call it the same thing, and then call it good. Done.
And now you want to mix the concept of 'worship' in for good measure.
You know you might want to see what the phrase 'Lord in your heart' with sanctify means Fred, in relation to the Father....there is much more to this story that you give credit.
And you have handy yet another OT passage to equate Jesus with God Almighty via a NT verse. Wishful thinking Fred, the puzzle pieces does not fit. You are trying to force it to fit as usual.
I can elaboration on this if you want.
Even earlier in the Book of Matthew he presents the gospel being done in Christ's name.
Matthew 10:21-22
(21) Brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death,
(22) and you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
Matthew 12:21
and in his name the Gentiles will hope.
Matthew 19:29
And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands, for my name's sake, will receive a hundredfold and will inherit eternal life.
Matthew 24:9, 14
(9) Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake.
(14) And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
This isn't to the exclusion of the Father and the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
John 5:43
I have come in my Father's name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him.
John 14:26
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
Matthew 28:20 (Jesus is 'always' with the believer)
teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.
John 14:16=17 (The Holy Spirit is 'always' with/in the believer)
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever.
that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.
John 14:23 (The Father and Jesus will 'always' be with/in the believer)
Jesus answered him, If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Hosanna
Well-known member
Father God, is all I need. Here are some Beautiful names of God.
www.christianity.com
Names of God in the Bible: 20+ Names and Meaning
What are the names of God in the Bible and what do they mean? Sometimes names were given in response to something God had done, other times they were to describe who he is. Let's look at the names of God used in the Bible.
www.christianity.com
Get a serious clue.
Both contexts relate to worship (Matthew 6:9; 1 Peter 3:15 cf. Isaiah 8:13; 1 Peter 3:12).
If you can't see that then this is another huge problem of yours.
An assertion without proof.
The Unitarian chaos would have us believe that Peter would take an OT passage about YHWH and apply it directly to Christ and that concerning worship but don't even think that Jesus is God. No, that would be totally off the mark!
If it's based on the so-called reasoning and proof you presented thus far then yeah I could use some comedy.
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APAK
Active member
Enough of this ridiculous charade, Matthew 6:9 is all about God Almighty, YHWH our Father not his Son, his Christ for us. That would be very ignorant to write that their respective main subjects in each case are somehow the same. You are embarrassing yourself. And 1 Peter 3:15 is ONLY about out (L)lord and Saviour Jesus. There is NO commonality between these two verses whatsoever in co-equality or being the same God! Only one is the same one true God and you keep forcing the Son of God to be also this one God, every time.
Do you read what you write before you post? I wonder...
APAK
Active member
You know your famous Great Commission Trinitarian Baptist statement is a hoax right. Those words were added in later to support the Trinity by Trinitarian powers of the press. They are not a part of the original text.
I can elaborate on this is you want. I call 'em how I see 'em...no bias at all here mate.
Get a hold of yourself.
Not "somehow" but that they are in respect to worship.
No, I am embarrassing your refusal to believe who the true Jesus of the Bible is.
Another worthless assertion without proof.
Sure do. And it is easy to refute your false doctrine concerning Christ.
Here's more:
In 2 Timothy 4:18 Paul prays to the Lord Jesus by means of as doxology in thankfulness for having already delivered/rescued him from evil.
2 Timothy 4:18
The Lord will rescue me from every evil deed, and will bring me safely to His heavenly kingdom; to Him be the glory forever and ever. Amen.
Matthew 6:13
And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
The same Greek word rhyomai and ponēros are used in both passages.
So, once again prayer to the Father corresponds with prayer to Jesus.
APAK
Active member
Really civic. You are kidding right? What, Phil 2:9-11 is referenced in Isaiah 45: 21:24 and Paul is saying Jesus is YHWH. Oh enough man. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. You know you need to really explain yourself here civic else you writings are totally insane and worthless to me.
