God requires man to HUMBLE THEMSELVES

I dealt with it quite nicely. Your inconsistent. On the one hand God is omniscient but on the other hand the future is open. It can't logically be both. Either you know all there is to know or you don't.
sorry but you lack any support or rationality for your claim.

As long as God was free to create or not create, the future of creation was unsettled.

Omniscience is knowing the value of a truth claim.

What has not been settled cannot be known other than as a possibility.

Was it impossible God could have determined to not create?

you cannot affirm that while claiming God was free to create or not create
 
Nope. Not in God's character or essence.

We agree? Good.
you are dodging again

um going from no decree to a decree is a change

Going from no creation to a creation another change

Unfortunately for you a timeless God can experience no change in accidental properties or in relations

That his essence and character do not change all; agree

Do you not think it is obvious to others you obfuscate
 
And if he didn't plan and reason that means the plan came from somewhere. If it just appeared in front of him that would mean there would be a God above God himself. Someone came up with the plan. I think the thing is theologian types came up with the timeless thing when it came to God.

Once it became a mantra it became engrained into people's minds and then thought of as bedrock truth. When one really steps in and gives it some thought though you come to the place where real genuine questions begin to be asked. Is that really the case or is it rather just something we've said.
it actually began with Platonic thought

Augustine I am told when he thought he could not agree with the bible was told to interpret it according Platonic thought

It is found in his confessions according to what I have read.
 
sorry but you lack any support or rationality for your claim.

As long as God was free to create or not create, the future of creation was unsettled.

Omniscience is knowing the value of a truth claim.

What has not been settled cannot be known other than as a possibility.

Was it impossible God could have determined to not create?

you cannot affirm that while claiming God was free to create or not create
Their god is not free and bound to a decree before creation don’t you know that lol.

But as we all know God changed His mind, relents and also there are many things that have never crossed His mind regarding sin.
 
it actually began with Platonic thought

Augustine I am told when he thought he could not agree with the bible was told to interpret it according Platonic thought

It is found in his confessions according to what I have read.
Yes the main corrupter of the church which was Calvin’s idol.
 
Yes the main corrupter of the church which was Calvin’s idol.
What did Augustine say about Platonic philosophy?


Copilot

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Augustine engaged with Plato’s philosophy in a dynamic and critical manner, rather than passively accepting ideas. He sought to reconcile classical wisdom with Christian faith, enriching theological discourse during his time1. Augustine’s thought was not merely a subspecies of Christian Platonism; it was unique and became known as Augustinianism. Here are some key points about Augustine’s relationship with Platonic philosophy:
  1. Anthropology: Like Plotinus and Porphyry, Augustine insisted on the soul’s superiority to and independence from the body. He believed that the body could not act on the soul because the soul held a higher position in the hierarchy of reality2.
  2. Ethics: Augustine developed the Platonic idea of the rational soul into a Christian view. He saw humans essentially as souls, using their bodies as a means to achieve spiritual ends3.
  3. Epistemology: Augustine’s doctrine of illumination was Neoplatonic. He emphasized that human minds are aware of God due to His direct action on them, rather than reasoning solely from sense experience2.
  4. Theology of History: Augustine’s original theology of history and his views on human society were less influenced by Plotinus and Porphyry, focusing on different aspects2.
In summary, Augustine’s engagement with Platonism enriched Christian thought and left a lasting impact on Western philosophy and theology. His unique blend of classical wisdom and Christian faith continues to resonate today.

and that is just part of the story

Augustine admits his in-debtedness to Plato as Platonic philosophy eventually led him to embrace Christianity (Augustine, Basic Writings Bk. VII). Plato provided a way for Augustine to escape materialism and grasp a metaphysical reality above his own (Kenny).
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Augustine and Plato: Clarifying Misconceptions - Brigham Young U…


Saint Augustine of Hippo dealt with Platonism, and its ensuing philosophical ideas, by incorporating it into his Christianity, a fairly common practice among the early church fathers. However, not only did Augustine incorporate and utilize Platonic ideas into his theology, but it was his study of Platonism that led to his conversion to Christianity. Augustine believed that the tenets of Platonism and Christianity were compatible, as the one led him, quite naturally he contended, to conversion to the other. However, he writes of Platonism differently in his works. In The Confessions, Augustine speaks of how the ideas of Platonism led him to a more Christian outlook, and provided answers that he had been seeking through his life, as he felt unfulfilled by his past notions of Manicheanism. Platonism spoke of Truth, of a higher plane, of evil as the absence of something, instead of a merely equal physical force, acting on the good with the same amount of intensity. Augustine’s search for truth, for purpose, and for direction, according to The Confessions, led him straight to Platonism and from there to Christianity.

Unfortunately some Platonism thought began to creep into the church before Augustine

Bishop Ambrose

At Milan he underwent the influence of Bishop Ambrose (339–397), who taught him the allegorical method of Scriptural exegesis, and of some Neoplatonically inclined Christians who acquainted him with an understanding of Christianity that was philosophically informed and, to Augustine, intellectually more satisfactory than Manicheism, from which he had already begun to distance himself.

Saint Augustine - Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy

 
Their god is not free and bound to a decree before creation don’t you know that lol.

But as we all know God changed His mind, relents and also there are many things that have never crossed His mind regarding sin.
Well given the choice of believing God was not free or that the future was open at that point in God's existence I will choose the later every time
 
Their god is not free and bound to a decree before creation don’t you know that lol.

But as we all know God changed His mind, relents and also there are many things that have never crossed His mind regarding sin.
Well then the obvious conclusion is that in all such instances he must not have decreed the results or (God forbid) he was not truthful about changing his mind
 
Can activity exist with sequence and time ?
Are you asking if activity can exist without
sequencing and time? I think that’s what you meant to say.

If so, I would simply say not in our universe, but God is not naturally part of our universe. This question is about God in his pre-creation state of existence. We cannot, sans pure speculation (logical as it may be),; thus, if he is omniscient there is nothing that he has not eternally known. This mitigates how the Trinity might communicate compared to we mere mortals.
Doesn’t God declare His thoughts are far above our thoughts ?

Yes, but in a human context. To humans, in comparison to humans, and in human concepts. He is not saying anything about his thoughts in relation to the Godhead.
And also come let us reason together ?

Ibid above.
The mind processes things are you saying Gods mind has no process, sequence , reasoning or thinking ?
I am saying that God’s mind, being omniscient, doesn’t have to process information like we do.

We have to communicate in human terms, but our thinking process is not the same as God’s. God has no questions? The Trinity doesn’t have to process conversations in the same way a trio of humans would do. With us, you might propose a thought or idea, but I have to process that idea and respond. Not so with God; logically speaking, they simply know immediately what the others are thinking.

To say God plans, is to say that God has to establish something that is not yet formulated. But that denies omniscience.


Doug
 
Can activity exist with sequence and time ?

Doesn’t God declare His thoughts are far above our thoughts ?

And also come let us reason together ?

The mind processes things are you saying Gods mind has no process, sequence , reasoning or thinking ?
Yes the bible states God thinks, reasons and plans.
 
Then He is not omniscient then huh. Your position is contradictory.

This is obvious
Sorry your definition of omniscience extends beyond the fact God knows all truth facts and extends to that which was not established truth

i.e. God had not decreed to create and creation is not as eternal as God.

God was free to create or not create

What is obvious is you simply assume your view and reason in a contradictory manner

God cannot be free to create or not create if it was necessary that he create because it was eternally in his knowledge.
 
Sorry your definition of omniscience extends beyond the fact God knows all truth facts and extends to that which was not established truth

i.e. God had not decreed to create and creation is not as eternal as God.

God was free to create or not create

What is obvious is you simply assume your view and reason in a contradictory manner

God cannot be free to create or not create if it was necessary that he create because it was eternally in his knowledge.
yes a god in bondage to a future decree, talk about placing god into their tiny box. a god that has no freedom. sounds like paganism, gnosticism, greek philosophy
 
Sorry your definition of omniscience extends beyond the fact God knows all truth facts and extends to that which was not established truth

i.e. God had not decreed to create and creation is not as eternal as God.

God was free to create or not create

What is obvious is you simply assume your view and reason in a contradictory manner

God cannot be free to create or not create if it was necessary that he create because it was eternally in his knowledge.
And your view is contradictory. God knows all except some facts about the future. That is not the definition of omniscience. That's the definition of heresy
 
yes a god in bondage to a future decree, talk about placing god into their tiny box. a god that has no freedom. sounds like paganism, gnosticism, greek philosophy
Yes. If in fact the knowledge of reality was as eternal as God, then God would be powerless to change anything
 
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