God requires man to HUMBLE THEMSELVES

Presby02 said:
Wrong. ESV God is not a man that He should change His mind.

You misquoted it
Click to expand...
Proving you are wrong is to easy, any other Calvinists want to correct their brother ?

New International Version
God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?

New Living Translation
God is not a man, so he does not lie. He is not human, so he does not change his mind. Has he ever spoken and failed to act? Has he ever promised and not carried it through?

English Standard Version
God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?

Berean Standard Bible
God is not a man, that He should lie, or a son of man, that He should change His mind. Does He speak and not act? Does He promise and not fulfill?

King James Bible
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

New King James Version
“God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent. Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?

New American Standard Bible
“God is not a man, that He would lie, Nor a son of man, that He would change His mind; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?
 
TomL said:
Except that verse has a context, and it concerns God changing his mind arbitrarily

apart from and Contrary to the principle established here

Jeremiah 18:7–10 (KJV 1900) — 7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it; 8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them. 9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it; 10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.

Israel had not at that point transgressed that standard, so God would be going back on his word were he to allow Israel to be cursed

See also context from the Warren McGrew - Tyler Vela debate


the context there i think you have to understand according to its context and the analogy of the faith. What we have is um that you have king balak who has hired balaam to curse the people of israel that god said he was going to bless and balaam is saying look god's not a liar. i'm not he's not going to change his mind because he they haven't done anything to merit this he said he's going to bless them he's not going to turn around and curse them and so i think what happens when you're when you're looking at these is you're taking these texts where god says here is why i'm not changing my mind here i'm not willing to do it and then you take that and you make that an ontological claim and you claim that that's the didactic statements of just of the text and i don't see how that's actually supported either with the immediate language the grammar the word choice the sentence structure the literary device or genres (slightly paraphrased)
Click to expand...
Show me the word arbitrarily in Mumbers 23. LOL

You will meed a excuse for Psalm 110:4 "the Lord has sworn and will not change His mind". Psalm 102:27 as well.
 
civic said:
God is personal with a mind, will, emotions. If God doesn’t change His mind, repents then God is a liar.
Click to expand...
true

Hezekiah was sick and near death and Isaiah the prophet went to him and said, "Thus says the Lord: 'Set your house in order for you shall die and not live.' Then [Hezekiah] turned his face toward the wall, and prayed to the Lord, saying, "Remember now, O Lord, I pray, how I have walked before You in truth and with a loyal heart, and have done what was good in Your sight." And Hezekiah wept bitterly. And it happened, before Isaiah had gone out into the middle court, that the word of the Lord came to him, saying, "Return and tell Hezekiah the leader of My people, 'Thus says the Lord, the God of David your father: "I have heard your prayer, I have seen your tears; surely I will heal you

2 Kings 20:1-5

New King James Version

​

Hezekiah’s Life Extended​

20 In those days Hezekiah was sick and near death. And Isaiah the prophet, the son of Amoz, went to him and said to him, “Thus says the Lord: ‘Set your house in order, for you shall die, and not live.’ ”
2 Then he turned his face toward the wall, and prayed to the Lord, saying, 3 “Remember now, O Lord, I pray, how I have walked before You in truth and with a loyal heart, and have done what was good in Your sight.” And Hezekiah wept bitterly.
4 And it happened, before Isaiah had gone out into the middle court, that the word of the Lord came to him, saying, 5 “Return and tell Hezekiah the leader of My people, ‘Thus says the Lord, the God of David your father: “I have heard your prayer, I have seen your tears; surely I will heal you.

Jonah 3:1–10 (KJV 1900) — 1 And the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the second time, saying, 2 Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee. 3 So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days’ journey. 4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day’s journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown. 5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them. 6 For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes. 7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water: 8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands. 9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not? 10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
 
TomL said:
true

Hezekiah was sick and near death and Isaiah the prophet went to him and said, "Thus says the Lord: 'Set your house in order for you shall die and not live.' Then [Hezekiah] turned his face toward the wall, and prayed to the Lord, saying, "Remember now, O Lord, I pray, how I have walked before You in truth and with a loyal heart, and have done what was good in Your sight." And Hezekiah wept bitterly. And it happened, before Isaiah had gone out into the middle court, that the word of the Lord came to him, saying, "Return and tell Hezekiah the leader of My people, 'Thus says the Lord, the God of David your father: "I have heard your prayer, I have seen your tears; surely I will heal you

2 Kings 20:1-5​

​

New King James Version​

​

​

Hezekiah’s Life Extended​

20 In those days Hezekiah was sick and near death. And Isaiah the prophet, the son of Amoz, went to him and said to him, “Thus says the Lord: ‘Set your house in order, for you shall die, and not live.’ ”
2 Then he turned his face toward the wall, and prayed to the Lord, saying, 3 “Remember now, O Lord, I pray, how I have walked before You in truth and with a loyal heart, and have done what was good in Your sight.” And Hezekiah wept bitterly.
4 And it happened, before Isaiah had gone out into the middle court, that the word of the Lord came to him, saying, 5 “Return and tell Hezekiah the leader of My people, ‘Thus says the Lord, the God of David your father: “I have heard your prayer, I have seen your tears; surely I will heal you.

Jonah 3:1–10 (KJV 1900) — 1 And the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the second time, saying, 2 Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee. 3 So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days’ journey. 4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day’s journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown. 5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them. 6 For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes. 7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water: 8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands. 9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not? 10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
Click to expand...
Amen 🙏
 
civic said:
Proving you are wrong is to easy, any other Calvinists want to correct their brother ?

New International Version
God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?

New Living Translation
God is not a man, so he does not lie. He is not human, so he does not change his mind. Has he ever spoken and failed to act? Has he ever promised and not carried it through?

English Standard Version
God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?

Berean Standard Bible
God is not a man, that He should lie, or a son of man, that He should change His mind. Does He speak and not act? Does He promise and not fulfill?

King James Bible
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

New King James Version
“God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent. Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?

New American Standard Bible
“God is not a man, that He would lie, Nor a son of man, that He would change His mind; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?
Click to expand...
ESV. Proving you wrong is easy.

"God is not a man that He should lie or a son of man that He should change His mind."
 
TomL said:
true

Hezekiah was sick and near death and Isaiah the prophet went to him and said, "Thus says the Lord: 'Set your house in order for you shall die and not live.' Then [Hezekiah] turned his face toward the wall, and prayed to the Lord, saying, "Remember now, O Lord, I pray, how I have walked before You in truth and with a loyal heart, and have done what was good in Your sight." And Hezekiah wept bitterly. And it happened, before Isaiah had gone out into the middle court, that the word of the Lord came to him, saying, "Return and tell Hezekiah the leader of My people, 'Thus says the Lord, the God of David your father: "I have heard your prayer, I have seen your tears; surely I will heal you

2 Kings 20:1-5​

​

New King James Version​

​

​

Hezekiah’s Life Extended​

20 In those days Hezekiah was sick and near death. And Isaiah the prophet, the son of Amoz, went to him and said to him, “Thus says the Lord: ‘Set your house in order, for you shall die, and not live.’ ”
2 Then he turned his face toward the wall, and prayed to the Lord, saying, 3 “Remember now, O Lord, I pray, how I have walked before You in truth and with a loyal heart, and have done what was good in Your sight.” And Hezekiah wept bitterly.
4 And it happened, before Isaiah had gone out into the middle court, that the word of the Lord came to him, saying, 5 “Return and tell Hezekiah the leader of My people, ‘Thus says the Lord, the God of David your father: “I have heard your prayer, I have seen your tears; surely I will heal you.

Jonah 3:1–10 (KJV 1900) — 1 And the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the second time, saying, 2 Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee. 3 So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days’ journey. 4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day’s journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown. 5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them. 6 For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes. 7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water: 8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands. 9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not? 10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
Click to expand...
True? End of discussion then.
 
Presby02 said:
Show me the word arbitrarily in Mumbers 23. LOL

You will meed a excuse for Psalm 110:4 "the Lord has sworn and will not change His mind". Psalm 102:27 as well.
Click to expand...
you are ignoring the standard God established

Jeremiah 18:7–10 (KJV 1900) — 7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it; 8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them. 9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it; 10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them

God established a standard by which he could change his mind. The action of Israel in the narrative of Num 23 do not meet that standard so it would be arbitrary

and then you conflate will with can

It does not show he cannot
 
Presby02 said:
True? End of discussion then.
Click to expand...
Nope my reply was to civic not you

and you simply ignored this

Hezekiah was sick and near death and Isaiah the prophet went to him and said, "Thus says the Lord: 'Set your house in order for you shall die and not live.' Then [Hezekiah] turned his face toward the wall, and prayed to the Lord, saying, "Remember now, O Lord, I pray, how I have walked before You in truth and with a loyal heart, and have done what was good in Your sight." And Hezekiah wept bitterly. And it happened, before Isaiah had gone out into the middle court, that the word of the Lord came to him, saying, "Return and tell Hezekiah the leader of My people, 'Thus says the Lord, the God of David your father: "I have heard your prayer, I have seen your tears; surely I will heal you

2 Kings 20:1-5​

New King James Version​

Hezekiah’s Life Extended​

20 In those days Hezekiah was sick and near death. And Isaiah the prophet, the son of Amoz, went to him and said to him, “Thus says the Lord: ‘Set your house in order, for you shall die, and not live.’ ”
2 Then he turned his face toward the wall, and prayed to the Lord, saying, 3 “Remember now, O Lord, I pray, how I have walked before You in truth and with a loyal heart, and have done what was good in Your sight.” And Hezekiah wept bitterly.
4 And it happened, before Isaiah had gone out into the middle court, that the word of the Lord came to him, saying, 5 “Return and tell Hezekiah the leader of My people, ‘Thus says the Lord, the God of David your father: “I have heard your prayer, I have seen your tears; surely I will heal you.

Jonah 3:1–10 (KJV 1900) — 1 And the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the second time, saying, 2 Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee. 3 So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days’ journey. 4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day’s journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown. 5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them. 6 For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes. 7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water: 8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands. 9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not? 10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
 
TomL said:
you are ignoring the standard God established

Jeremiah 18:7–10 (KJV 1900) — 7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it; 8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them. 9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it; 10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them

God established a standard by which he could change his mind. The action of Israel in the narrative of Num 23 do not meet that standard so it would be arbitrary

and then you conflate will with can

It does not show he cannot
Click to expand...
"not a human that He should change His mind", your very first proof text. LOL
 
TomL said:
you are ignoring the standard God established

Jeremiah 18:7–10 (KJV 1900) — 7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it; 8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them. 9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it; 10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them

God established a standard by which he could change his mind. The action of Israel in the narrative of Num 23 do not meet that standard so it would be arbitrary

and then you conflate will with can

It does not show he cannot
Click to expand...
Yes circular reasoning. It’s a stronghold as @sethproton use to say all the time in the other forum. He was right.

I shared that last night on the YouTube live with Warren and Jason about the stronghold. Since the three of us were all Calvinists they should see it to, it’s a blindness
 
Presby02 said:
Show me the word arbitrarily in Mumbers 23. LOL

You will meed a excuse for Psalm 110:4 "the Lord has sworn and will not change His mind". Psalm 102:27 as well.
Click to expand...
Again will does not mean cannot

and you ignore some two dozen verses which speak of/show God repenting
 
Presby02 said:
"not a human that He should change His mind", your very first proof text. LOL
Click to expand...
Already addressed Num 23:19

why are you ignoring the context?

God cannot change his mind in a way which would be contrary to truth he has established

Jeremiah 18:7–10 (ESV) — 7 If at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom, that I will pluck up and break down and destroy it, 8 and if that nation, concerning which I have spoken, turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I intended to do to it. 9 And if at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will build and plant it, 10 and if it does evil in my sight, not listening to my voice, then I will relent of the good that I had intended to do to it.


the context there i think you have to understand according to its context and the analogy of the faith. What we have is um that you have king balak who has hired balaam to curse the people of israel that god said he was going to bless and balaam is saying look god's not a liar. i'm not he's not going to change his mind because he they haven't done anything to merit this he said he's going to bless them he's not going to turn around and curse them and so i think what happens when you're when you're looking at these is you're taking these texts where god says here is why i'm not changing my mind here i'm not willing to do it and then you take that and you make that an ontological claim and you claim that that's the didactic statements of just of the text and i don't see how that's actually supported either with the immediate language the grammar the word choice the sentence structure the literary device or genres Paraphrase Warren McGrew to Tyler Vela
 

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