God is Plural

What verse says that?

Christ. The chosen of God.

Psa 89:3 I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,
Psa 89:4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.

God is jealous over His choices.

Joe 2:18 Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity his people.

Mat 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
 
Psa 89:3 I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,
Psa 89:4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.
In other words, you cannot produce a single verse that says what you claim, that God is jealous of Jesus.

Why can’t you just admit that?

To ‘support’ your claim you have to resort to artificial synthesis and back door a rationalization. Not quite the same thing.
 
In other words, you cannot produce a single verse that says what you claim, that God is jealous of Jesus.

Why can’t you just admit that?

To ‘support’ your claim you have to resort to artificial synthesis and back door a rationalization. Not quite the same thing.

You selectively quoted what I said. Why are being so dishonest?

There is plenty of indirect information that forces us to draw that conclusion. The fact you don't believe God is jealous over Christ when the Scriptures specifically state that God is jealous over "his land?

Joe 2:18 Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity his people.

and God's own voice detailing the pleasure He has in His Son........

Mat 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

God is jealous over His own.

Why are you so opposed to Jesus Christ? I mean seriously.... you obvious do not love Jesus Christ. If you did, you wouldn't resist the obvious teachings about Him. You wouldn't resist the idea that God is jealous over Jesus Christ.
 
A desperate reach. I can see my father in his driver's license or a mirror. That does not make the driver's license or the mirror my father.
The literal Hebrew translation of the word 'Elohim' is Gods. Elohim is used of both the true God and also the many false gods. In Gen 1:26 it is used of the true God and in verses such as Exodus 20:3 and Deuteronomy 13:2 of false gods. Even one of the commandments say, "Thou shalt not have any other gods (Elohim) before Me." Point being, the Hebrew word for 'God' is a plural noun. Elohim has the Hebrew masculine plural ending. Whenever it is used of the true God, it is always translated in the singular. But, conversely, when used of the false gods, it is always translated into the plural. The fact that the Hebrew word is plural when speaking of the only one true God opens the door to the concept of plurality.

Normally, when Elohim is used of the one true God, the verb with it is singular. This goes contrary to normal Hebrew grammar because in Hebrew grammar the verb must agree with the noun in gender and number. Normally, one would expect that with Elohim, a plural noun, the plural verb would be used, which is true when it is used of false gods. Most of the time whenever the word Elohim is used of the true God, the verb used with it is in the singular number to prove that there is only one true God. But there are exceptions and these exceptions again open the door for the possibility of plurality in the Godhead.

For example, Genesis 20:13a reads:

Genesis 20:13 And it came to pass, when God caused me to wander ...

The Hebrew word that is translated "caused me to wander" is plural. Literally it reads, "And it came to pass, when They (in reference to God) caused me to wander..."

Another example is Genesis 35:7:

Genesis 35:7 And he built there an altar, and called the place Elbethel: because there God appeared unto him...

Here again, "appeared unto him" in Hebrew is a plural form which literally reads, "for there God appeared Themselves."

A third example being 2 Samuel 7:23:

2 Samuel 7:23 ... whom God went ...

Again, the Hebrew word for 'went' is plural, and literally reads, "...whom God They went..."

A fourth example is Psalms 58:11:

Psalms 58:11b "... verily he is a God that judgeth in the earth."

Again, the term "that judgeth" is a plural verb in Hebrew and literally it reads, "he is a God They judge."

Joshua 24:19 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the LORD: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins.

A jealous God - In the Hebrew, He is the holy Gods, holy Father, holy Son, holy Spirit. He will not endure a partner in his worship; you can not serve him and idols together. (Wesley)

"In the English translations, plural adjectives appear as nouns, but in the Hebrew text, these words are Hebrew adjectives. The adjective "holy" is a plural form which literally reads in the Hebrew "holy Gods""

Psalms 149:2 Let Israel rejoice in (his maker): let the children of Zion be joyful in their King.

"The adjective that is translated as "maker" is in Hebrew a plural so literally reads, "Let Israel rejoice in his Makers"

Ecclesiastes 12:1 Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them;

"Again, the word "Creator" in Hebrew is a plural adjective and literally reads, "Remember now thy Creators..."

Isaiah 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

"(This verse) has two examples. In English the verse reads, "thy Maker, thine husband". But both the term "Maker" and "husband" are in the Hebrew text plurals and literally read, "For thy Makers, thy Husbands" in reference to God.

This too emphasizes the concept of a plurality (within God)"

The majority of the information above comes from 'Ariel Ministries', Manuscript # 50 entitled "The Trinity" by Dr. Arnold G. Fruchtenbaum, Messianic Jewish Hebrew scholar, - see http://www.ariel.org/amds.htm to read more of his works

hope this helps !!!
 
From my friend Robert Bowman
http://www.irr.org/trinity-part-II.html



This One God Is the Single Divine Being Known in the OT as Jehovah or Yahweh (“The LORD”)​



A. This one God is known in the OT as Jehovah or Yahweh (“the LORD”)

1. Texts where Jehovah is said to be elohim or el: Deut. 4:35, 39; Josh. 22:34; 1 Kings 8:60; 18:21, 39; Ps. 100:3; 118:27; etc.

2. Texts where the compound name “Jehovah God” (Yahweh Elohim) is used: Gen. 2:4-9, 15-22; 3:1, 8-9, 13-14, 21-23; 24:3; Ex. 9:30; Ps. 72:18; 84:11; Jonah 4:6

3. Only one Yahweh/Jehovah: Deut. 6:4; Mark 12:29

4. The Bible never speaks of “the gods” as a group that includes Yahweh; nor is creation ever credited to “gods”; nor does it ever enjoin the worship of “gods”; nor does it speak in any other way that would imply that Yahweh was one of a group of deities. In fact the Bible explicitly rejects these types of statements (e.g., Deut. 5:6-10; 6:4-5, 13; Is. 43:10; 44:6-8, 24).

5. Conclusion: Jehovah is the only God, the only El or Elohim

B. This one God, the LORD, is one single divine being

1. The Bible always refers to the LORD or God in the third person singular (he, his, him), never as they, and speakers in the Bible addressing God/the LORD always do so in the second person singular (you singular). Citing texts is really unnecessary because there are far too many occurrences, but see, for example, Gen. 1:5, 10; Ex. 3:6, 12-14; 20:7; Deut. 32:39; 1 Kings 18:39; Ps. 23:2-3.

2. Whenever in the Bible the LORD or God speaks to human beings or other creatures, he always speaks of himself in the first person singular (I, and my/mine, not us/we and our/ours). Of the obviously numerous examples, see the especially famous examples in Ex. 3:14; Ex. 20:2; Deut. 5:6. He says “I am the LORD” or “I am the LORD your/their God” some 164 times in the OT (especially in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Isaiah, and Ezekiel).

3. This conclusion cannot be circumvented by saying that there is one “Godhead” consisting of a plurality of divine beings. The word “Godhead” is equivalent to the word “Godhood” (-head is an old English suffix meaning the state or status of something, as in maidenhead, the state of being a maiden or virgin). In the English Bible it is used to translate three closely related words: theion (“divine being,” Acts 17:29), theiotês (“divine nature,” Rom. 1:20), and theotês (“deity,” Col. 2:9). In none of these texts does “Godhead” refer to more than one divine being. The use of “Godhead” as a term for the Trinity is not found in the Bible; it is not inaccurate per se, but it must be understood as a term for a single divine being, not a group of gods.

C. However, the Bible never says that God is “one person.”

1. Heb. 1:3 KJV speaks of God’s “person,” but the word used here, hupostasis, is translated “substance” in Heb. 11:1 KJV; also in Heb. 1:3 “God” refers specifically to the Father.

2. Gal. 3:20 speaks of God as one party in the covenant between God and man, not as one person.

3. Job 13:8 KJV speaks of God’s “person,” but ironically the Hebrew literally means “his faces.”

D. The use of plural pronouns by God in Genesis 1-11

1. As already noted, the Bible always refers to God in the singular, and he always speaks of himself with singular pronouns (I, me, mine, my) when addressing creatures. These singular forms do not disprove that God exists as three “persons” as long as these persons are not separate beings.

2. At least three times God speaks of or to himself using plural pronouns (Gen. 1:26; 3:22; 11:7), and nontrinitarian interpretations cannot account for these occurrences.

a. A plural reference to God and the angels is not likely in these texts. In 1:26 “our image” is explained by the parallel in 1:27, “in God’s image.” In 3:22 “like one of us” refers back to 3:5, “like God.” In 11:7 “let us go down and there confuse their language” is explained immediately in 11:8-9, “So the LORD [Yahweh] scattered them abroad from there … The LORD confused the language of the whole earth.” Angels were evidently present when God created human beings (cf. Job 38:4-7), but the Bible never includes them as participants in creating human beings. Nor does the Bible ever speak of humans as being in the image of angels.

b. That the plural is in some way literal is evident from 3:22 (“like one of us”) and from 11:7 (“Come, let us go down”), which parallels the people’s statements “Come, let us …” (11:3, 4).

c. The “literary plural” (possibly, though never clearly, attested in Paul) is irrelevant to OT texts in which God is speaking, not writing.

d. The “plural of deliberation” or “cohortative plural” (as in “Let’s see now …”) with reference to a single person is apparently unattested in biblical writings, and clearly cannot explain the plural in Gen. 3:22 (“like one of us”).

e. The “plural of amplitude” or of “fullness” (which probably does explain the use of the plural form elohim in the singular sense of “God”) is irrelevant to the use of plural pronouns, and again cannot explain Gen. 3:22 and 11:7.

f. The “plural of majesty” (the royal “we”) is possibly attested in 1 Kings 12:9; 2 Chron. 10:9; more likely Ezra 4:18; but none of these is a certain use of that idiom; and again, it cannot explain Gen. 3:22 and 11:7.

3. There are two factors that may explain why these intradivine plural pronouns occur only in Genesis 1-11.

a. These plural pronouns express communication among the divine persons, rather than communication from God to human beings or angelic creatures.

b. It may be significant that the use of these plural forms is reported only in Genesis 1-11, prior to the revelations to Abraham, when the focus of biblical revelation became the fostering of a monotheistic faith. The history of the OT is a history of the struggle to establish Israel as a community committed to belief in one God. In that context it would have been confusing to have referred overtly to the three divine persons of the triune God. This also explains why there is no overt revelation of the three persons in the OT.

E. The uniqueness of God should prepare us for the possibility that the one divine Being exists uniquely as a plurality of persons

1. Only one God, thus unique: see I.A

2. None are even like God: see I.B

3. God cannot be fully comprehended: Is. 40:18, 25; 1 Cor. 8:2-3

4. God can be known only insofar as the Son reveals Him: Matt. 11:25-27; John 1:18

5. Analogical language needed to describe God: Ezek. 1:26-28; Rev. 1:13-16

6. God is transcendent, entirely distinct from and different than the universe, as the carpenter is distinct from the bench

a. Separate from the world: Is. 40:22; Acts 17:24

b. Contrasted with the world: Ps. 102:25-27; 1 John 2:15-17

c. Created the world: Gen. 1:1; Ps. 33:6; 102:25; Is. 42:5; 44:24; John 1:3; Rom. 11:36; Heb. 1:2; 11:3
It's one thing to want something to be true, wishing for it, and it's another thing when you are forced to face reality, head-on. I used to do that a lot when I was much younger. Not anymore. And many as you are still idling in this state of simplistic thought based on fables of men who managed to successfully convince that Christianity is based on a mixture of Biblical truth and pagan philosophy.

Your part E. truly reveals your agenda and your expected downfall - deflated climax.

Why suddenly add C. However, the Bible never says that God is “one person.”
and especially E. The uniqueness of God should prepare us for the possibility that the one divine Being exists uniquely as a plurality of persons

If you believed in the she 'ma as the Hebrews who recited it every day that our God LORD YHWH is one in position and state and essence, as did the earliest Christians and a small percentage of the same today, you would not even imagine or attempt to contemplate that YHWH is more that one person with a shared essence or state of the one and only Supreme person (I guess Godhood would also fit, better as the only source and state of divinity though) of 2 or more, ever. You are trapped by your own beliefs steeped in traditions of err handed down over the centuries by many early pagan scholars and impersonators, presenting themselves as holy people or 'church fathers.' You demonstrate you believe in another God (YHWH) not of the Bible.

just saying.....my view of your OP....Parts A and B was clear and truthful.
 
The literal Hebrew translation of the word 'Elohim' is Gods.
That's not true - at least not entirely. We went round and round on this in another website. Using only one sense of a word is intellectually dishonest. Perhaps you are lying to yourself.

The Bible would be contradicting itself if more than one sense of God was not entered into the interpretation.
  • 1 COR 8:5. There are many gods.
  • 1 COR 8:6. There is only one God, the Father.
 
That's not true - at least not entirely. We went round and round on this in another website. Using only one sense of a word is intellectually dishonest. Perhaps you are lying to yourself.

The Bible would be contradicting itself if more than one sense of God was not entered into the interpretation.
  • 1 COR 8:5. There are many gods.
  • 1 COR 8:6. There is only one God, the Father.
I was referencing the Hebrew not the NT Greek. :)
 
I was referencing the Hebrew not the NT Greek. :)
I know. I could have found even more evidence to support my position in the OT, e.g., verse 4 and the 1,000's of times God is referred to using singular pronouns, the S'ma, 1C, Isaiah, etc.

So, what is your explanation for why God in the OT is referred to 1,000's of times using singular pronouns?
 
Corporate singular.

Israel the nation is referenced with a singular pronoun.

It's not one person.
Nice rationalization indeed. Kings use the royal we all the time. Does not make them plural.

Here is the basic flaw in your supposition. Plural does not mean 3. You just cannot make sense of what is inherently nonsense.
 
Corporate singular.

Israel the nation is referenced with a singular pronoun.

It's not one person.
Yes like a cluster a single 🍇. One cluster , many grapes. One God, 3 persons . One flesh, 2 persons. One body, many members. The concept is everywhere for those with eyes to see, ears to hear and minds to understand and hearts that are flesh not stone.
 
Yes like a cluster a single 🍇. One cluster , many grapes. One God, 3 persons . One flesh, 2 persons. One body, many members. The concept is everywhere for those with eyes to see, ears to hear and minds to understand and hearts that are flesh not stone.
Amen; my favorites of The Three-In-One GodHead Image:

Three: Time, space, and matter = One: universe

Three: proton, neutron, and electron = One: atom

Three: body, soul, and spirt = One: human being (1 Thessalonians 5:23 cf 1 John 5:7)

Amen.
 
Nice rationalization indeed. Kings use the royal we all the time. Does not make them plural.

Here is the basic flaw in your supposition. Plural does not mean 3. You just cannot make sense of what is inherently nonsense.

Your point actually works against you.

You point out a plural can be singular.

But then you want to deny a singular can be plural.

Very inconsistent!
 
Three: Time, space, and matter = One: universe
The problem with such analogies is the settling on 3 is false. The universe also consists of a 4th axis, knowledge.

The basic problem with the analogy is you are falsely equating parts with the whole. The whole of Jesus died on the cross and the whole of God gave his only begotten son. Language usage.
 
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