Freed from : Calvinism-TULIP-5 points Hyper-Calvinism

Eternally-Grateful said:
So you do not. As all calvinists believe we can not come to faith until God makes us alive first

And if he does not make us alive. We will never come to faith

Is that what you are saying. You do not believe this?
Click to expand...
That is exactly what Ephesians 2 says.

Ephesians 2:1-10 [NKJV]
1 And you [He made alive], who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in [His] kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; [it is] the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.​

Are you claiming to reject what Ephesians 2 says?
 
Eternally-Grateful said:
Paul had a choice.

He could have stayed defiant and in his blind state

We all have a choice
Click to expand...
No, Saul did not have a choice. Listen to Saul’s conversion on the road to Damascus. Remember, he was out persecuting Christians.
Acts 9:3-6 (NKJV) 3 As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. 4 Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?” 5 And he said, “Who are You, Lord?” Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It [is] hard for you to kick against the goads.” 6 So he, trembling and astonished, said, “Lord, what do You want me to do?” Then the Lord [said] to him, “Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”

Paul had no choice. He was a chosen vessel.
Acts 9:15-16 (NKJV) 15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. 16 “For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.”

… Selah
 
Selah said:
No, Saul did not have a choice. Listen to Saul’s conversion on the road to Damascus. Remember, he was out persecuting Christians.
Acts 9:3-6 (NKJV) 3 As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. 4 Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?” 5 And he said, “Who are You, Lord?” Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It [is] hard for you to kick against the goads.” 6 So he, trembling and astonished, said, “Lord, what do You want me to do?” Then the Lord [said] to him, “Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”

Paul had no choice. He was a chosen vessel.
Acts 9:15-16 (NKJV) 15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. 16 “For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.”

… Selah
Click to expand...
You have to admit, @Selah, this is the exception rather than the norm when it comes to how someone is saved.

J.
 
Presby02 said:
So no one seeks God actually means some do seek after God? That makes sense. Wow

Your education failed you.
Click to expand...
This is what Calvinists do.

They find it difficult to debate something they believe to be true,,,,
basically because it is not biblical and cannot easily be supported....

so they turn to insulting their opponent.
In this case....me.

Two points:

1. We were discussing how God reveals Himself to everyone...
I offered scripture...to which you simply stated that it is not what it means.
Great reply Presby....really shows your education level.
Sorry if I throw some dirt back on you...but you sure do dish it out wihtout mercy.
(the above insult is not the first one).

2. Then another member brought up how No One Is Righteous,,,No Not One.
So I mentioned Noah, Abraham, David, and others.
NO ONE IS RIGHTEOUS...seems to mean NO ONE IS RIGHTEOUS.
NO ONE means NO ONE

Why do you accept NO ONE IS RIGHTEOUS but are unable to accept THE WHOLE WORLD in John 3:16??

Just something for you to mull over.


3. Now you bring up, in your above post to me, the fact that No One Seeks God,,,No Not One....
And you've apparently not understood the tens of verses that I posted COMMANDING us to seek God.


If you care to converse, I'm good with any false teaching you believe.
If you care to throw insults at me....

well, Presby,,,it show YOUR education level...
not mine.
 
atpollard said:
That is exactly what Ephesians 2 says.

Ephesians 2:1-10 [NKJV]
1 And you [He made alive], who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in [His] kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; [it is] the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.​

Are you claiming to reject what Ephesians 2 says?
Click to expand...
No Christian that understands scripture will refute Ephesians 2.
That is because Ephesians 2 was written by Paul who was a Christian that did not teach calvinism.

It is YOUR undersanding of Ephesians 2 that is rejected by every other denomination except yours.

I suppose you're referring to Ephesians 2:5,,,using your above:
. 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),


Correct. God saved us WHILE WE WERE DEAD IN TRESPASSES......
made us alive together with Christ.......

God saved us while we were sinners...
WHILE WE WERE SINNERS....

He didn't regenerate us first...
which means being born again and together with Christ....and no longer sinners....

TO THEN
save us to make us alive together with Christ.

We get saved ONE TIME...
NOT TWO TIMES.
 
GodsGrace said:
This is what Calvinists do.

They find it difficult to debate something they believe to be true,,,,
basically because it is not biblical and cannot easily be supported....

so they turn to insulting their opponent.
In this case....me.

Two points:

1. We were discussing how God reveals Himself to everyone...
I offered scripture...to which you simply stated that it is not what it means.
Great reply Presby....really shows your education level.
Sorry if I throw some dirt back on you...but you sure do dish it out wihtout mercy.
(the above insult is not the first one).

2. Then another member brought up how No One Is Righteous,,,No Not One.
So I mentioned Noah, Abraham, David, and others.
NO ONE IS RIGHTEOUS...seems to mean NO ONE IS RIGHTEOUS.
NO ONE means NO ONE

Why do you accept NO ONE IS RIGHTEOUS but are unable to accept THE WHOLE WORLD in John 3:16??

Just something for you to mull over.


3. Now you bring up, in your above post to me, the fact that No One Seeks God,,,No Not One....
And you've apparently not understood the tens of verses that I posted COMMANDING us to seek God.


If you care to converse, I'm good with any false teaching you believe.
If you care to throw insults at me....

well, Presby,,,it show YOUR education level...
not mine.
Click to expand...
1) He does not reveal Himself to everyone. Millions have lived and knew of the God of the Bible. That's just historical fact. A point you refuse to address.

2) Irrelevant to the fact your saying no one seeks God, but some do.

That's exactly what it says. "no not one". What does not not one mean? Some do?????

So. Does command imply ability or desire?

Yes we are. Agreed.
 
atpollard said:
The exception rather than the norm ... but not unique.

Even Matthew was similar.
Click to expand...
Yes.
Matthew 4:18-22 (NKJV) 18 And Jesus, walking by the Sea of Galilee, saw two brothers, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea; for they were fishermen. 19 Then He said to them, “Follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men.” 20 They immediately left [their] nets and followed Him. 21 Going on from there, He saw two other brothers, James [the] [son] of Zebedee, and John his brother, in the boat with Zebedee their father, mending their nets. He called them, 22 and immediately they left the boat and their father, and followed Him.

It’s noteworthy that when Jesus called these men, they came immediately. They understood; they dropped everything and without hesitation, they came to Jesus when He said, “Follow Me.” That’s awesome.
…Selah
 
Presby02 said:
Am i wrong? LOL No one seeks God but some do. Is that nor what she is saying?
Click to expand...
Perhaps you'll reply to 528?

In the meantime....the following are COMMANDS from God to SEEK HIM.
But YOU prefer ONE VERSE that is from Psalms 45...speaking about FOOLS that do not believe in God.

This is about the 3rd or 4th time I'm posting these vereses to you.
Uncomfortable, isn't it?


Matthew 6:33​

But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

Hebrews 11:6​

And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

1 Chronicles 16:11​

Seek the Lord and his strength; seek his presence continually!

Proverbs 8:17​

I love those who love me, and those who seek me diligently find me.

Jeremiah 29:13​

You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.

​

Deuteronomy 4:29​

But from there you will seek the Lord your God and you will find him, if you search after him with all your heart and with all your soul.

​

Matthew 7:7-8​

“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.

​

​

Isaiah 55:6-7​

“Seek the Lord while he may be found; call upon him while he is near; let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the Lord, that he may have compassion on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Psalm 119:2​

Blessed are those who keep his testimonies, who seek him with their whole heart,

​

Lamentations 3:25​

The Lord is good to those who wait for him, to the soul who seeks him.

2 Chronicles 7:14​

If my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.


Matthew 7:7​

“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.


James 4:8​

Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.


Isaiah 55:6​

“Seek the Lord while he may be found; call upon him while he is near;

Amos 5:4​

For thus says the Lord to the house of Israel: “Seek me and live;

Psalm 40:16​

But may all who seek you rejoice and be glad in you; may those who love your salvation say continually, “Great is the Lord!”

Acts 17:27​

That they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us,

​

There's plenty more if you really need more.

Why don't you try to reconcile the conflict you've created with Romans 3:10 instead?
Try to find out what Romans 3:10 means....

Or maybe you just don't trust the bible.
 
Eternally-Grateful said:
Paul had a choice.

He could have stayed defiant and in his blind state

We all have a choice
Click to expand...

Eternally-Grateful said:
So you do not. As all calvinists believe we can not come to faith until God makes us alive first

And if he does not make us alive. We will never come to faith

Is that what you are saying. You do not believe this?

I defined it my friend. And you say I am being dishonest

Fatalism in short means all of our fates are predetermined.

That’s Calvinism 101

Now you want to continue to be dishonest and bear false witness?
Click to expand...
Absolutely. As the Bible makes quite clear. Good job

No you did not which leads me to believe your ignorant of which you speak.

Is Christ a victim of fatalism given Acts 4:27,28??

I would love to continue with someone who has a clue about their talking about. You anti-Calvinist zealots are entertaining if nothing else.
 
Presby02 said:
1) He does not reveal Himself to everyone. Millions have lived and knew of the God of the Bible. That's just historical fact. A point you refuse to address.

2) Irrelevant to the fact your saying no one seeks God, but some do.

That's exactly what it says. "no not one". What does not not one mean? Some do?????

So. Does command imply ability or desire?

Yes we are. Agreed.
Click to expand...
Does YOUR God command you to take actions that are impossible for you to take?

Quite a nasty god you are serving.

The God the rest of Christianity serves gives commands that can be followed....
and
Expects us to follow them.

JESUS expects us to follow the will of God:


Matthew 7:21
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
 
GodsGrace said:
Perhaps you'll reply to 528?

In the meantime....the following are COMMANDS from God to SEEK HIM.
But YOU prefer ONE VERSE that is from Psalms 45...speaking about FOOLS that do not believe in God.

This is about the 3rd or 4th time I'm posting these vereses to you.
Uncomfortable, isn't it?


Matthew 6:33​

But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

Hebrews 11:6​

And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

1 Chronicles 16:11​

Seek the Lord and his strength; seek his presence continually!

Proverbs 8:17​

I love those who love me, and those who seek me diligently find me.

Jeremiah 29:13​

You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.

​

Deuteronomy 4:29​

But from there you will seek the Lord your God and you will find him, if you search after him with all your heart and with all your soul.

​

Matthew 7:7-8​

“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.

​

​

Isaiah 55:6-7​

“Seek the Lord while he may be found; call upon him while he is near; let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the Lord, that he may have compassion on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Psalm 119:2​

Blessed are those who keep his testimonies, who seek him with their whole heart,

​

Lamentations 3:25​

The Lord is good to those who wait for him, to the soul who seeks him.

2 Chronicles 7:14​

If my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.


Matthew 7:7​

“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.


James 4:8​

Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.


Isaiah 55:6​

“Seek the Lord while he may be found; call upon him while he is near;

Amos 5:4​

For thus says the Lord to the house of Israel: “Seek me and live;

Psalm 40:16​

But may all who seek you rejoice and be glad in you; may those who love your salvation say continually, “Great is the Lord!”

Acts 17:27​

That they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us,

​

There's plenty more if you really need more.

Why don't you try to reconcile the conflict you've created with Romans 3:10 instead?
Try to find out what Romans 3:10 means....

Or maybe you just don't trust the bible.
Click to expand...
Not one of your proof texts say command implies ability or desire. POOR EFFORT
 
GodsGrace said:
Does YOUR God command you to take actions that are impossible for you to take?

Quite a nasty god you are serving.

The God the rest of Christianity serves gives commands that can be followed....
and
Expects us to follow them.

JESUS expects us to follow the will of God:


Matthew 7:21
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Click to expand...
Yes, like be ye holy for I am holy. LOL
 
Presby02 said:
Absolutely. As the Bible makes quite clear. Good job

No you did not which leads me to believe your ignorant of which you speak.

Is Christ a victim of fatalism given Acts 4:27,28??

I would love to continue with someone who has a clue about their talking about. You anti-Calvinist zealots are entertaining if nothing else.
Click to expand...
Entertaining is not as bad as being blaspehmous....as YOU are.

Fatalism means there is no hope.

It means a person is born hated by God and he'll never have anything to be able to do about it.

Quite a loving, merciful and just god you are serving.

Come join the rest of Christiandom and serve the REAL God.

The One that gives to us the Good News.

No good news in calvinism.
 

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