Freed from : Calvinism-TULIP-5 points Hyper-Calvinism
- Thread starter Behold
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Dizerner
Well-known member
It's "L N C." I believe civic intended here "[k]new the Law of Non-Contradiction."
He can correct me if I'm wrong.
Dizerner
Well-known member
Their mistake is in Irresistible Grace, not Total Depravity.
We must not conflate and confuse those two issues, such that we think self-righteousness is the only alternative to Calvinism.
Dizerner
Well-known member
They make a big deal out of it, so we cannot use English definitions here, but want to establish draw meant similarly in ancient Greek.
atpollard
Well-known member
Does that argument not hold for virtually ALL of the Gospels?
"Jesus was speaking to (believing/unbelieving) Jews and not to us (Gentiles)."
That line of thinking would reduce the Bible to a handy pocket sized book The WORD to the Gentiles (in 100 pages).
atpollard
Well-known member
Actually, my only point was that 4 of the 5 points of TULIP ... (the Doctrines of Grace: I am a Particular Baptist and not a "Calvinist" as we were NEVER part of the Protestant Reformation, anabaptists [credobaptists] have always existed and rejected infant baptism in favor of Scripture) ... which many claim are not found anywhere in scripture can be found in a single verse.
To your point:
SCRIPTURE SAYS:
- No one CAN come to Jesus ... John 6:44 [ESV] No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.
- No one DOES come to Jesus ... John 3:19-20 [ESV] And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.
- No one SEEKS GOD ... Romans 3:10-11 [ESV] as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God."
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atpollard
Well-known member
Different word ... Nehemiah was not written in GREEK.
Just out of curiosity, what chapter and verse has a draw that does not draw?
Dizerner
Well-known member
The "LXX" is the Greek OT of course, it is not the Hebrew version.
Nehemiah 9:30 is a rather famous example used against the Calvinist idea of draw, because it clearly was an unrealized potential.
Dizerner
Well-known member
Historically, Anabaptists were not divine determinists.
GodsGrace
Well-known member
Makes sense.
Because I find that reformed/calvinist theology causes many contradictions/conflicts.
Thanks.
GodsGrace
Well-known member
Self-righteousness is not biblical.
In my understanding,,,every single letter in the acronym of TULIP is not biblical...IOW,,,it is not taught in scripture.
T TOTAL DEPRAVITY
Every Christian believes that man is born depraved.
This is a belief common to all and not only to the reformed.
It is biblical.
What the reformed ADD to it is what turns it into an unbiblical belief.
What they add to it is this:
MAN IS TOTALLY DEPRAVED AS TO BE UNABLE TO SEEK GOD.
In their understanding this is why it's GOD that must decide who to save and who not to save....
because man is UNABLE to decide for himself due to his total depravity.
I think we agree on irresistible grace.
It IS resistible.
The two main tenets of calvinism are:
1. Total Depravity (and its effect)
2. Absence of free will (due to total depravity)
GodsGrace
Well-known member
You won't reply to me...too difficult, I know.
But ALL of what you've written above can be debunked immediately because scripture supports itself
and
Calvinism is not biblical...it is not found in the bible
so
every verse you post does NOT mean what the reformed make it out to mean.
You take the FIRST WORDS of a verse and don't even consider the rest...
talk about using CONTEXT. (No one can come to Me, how about the REST of the sentence??).
Pitiful.
And
John 3:19 states clearly who will not come to Jesus. YOU state NO ONE will come to Jesus. Adding words to the text.
Romans 3:10 See my posts 25 and 82....of course you don't even REPLY to the CORRECT understanding of Romans 3:10 because, yes sir, you are UNABLE to.
No path to God except through Jesus?
What did man do BEFORE Jesus?
HOW was Abraham saved?
Noah?
All the saints UNTIL Jesus.
There are different ways of explaining John 6:44
NONE OF WHICH ARE CALVINIST IN NATURE.
GodsGrace
Well-known member
Johann
Well-known member
civic
Well-known member
Law of non contradiction
GodsGrace
Well-known member
The BIBLICAL definition of Free will is simple.
Free will is the ability to choose between two moral acts/decisions without any outside coercion.
civic
Well-known member
ditto
Dizerner
Well-known member
Yes, but do consider.
If we have a sin nature we are not going to desire holiness innately, it's just not going to ever happen.
This is why man seeking after God is a beautiful miracle of grace, of inward redemption, that we should give God all the credit for.
atpollard
Well-known member
Historically, there is no record of what anabaptists believed since they were murdered as soon as it was discovered they challenged ROME on Infant Baptism. It is only about 1400 that we get any surviving writings at all from anabaptists. Paul wrote Romans and Ephesians and all the verses that Particular Baptists (founded with the mass printing of English Vernacular Bibles) read to adopt the beliefs that we hold (hundreds of years after Calvin and the attempt to reform the church of Rome that had been killing anabaptists for over a millennium.). For what it might be worth, the LUTHERANS and REFORMED Churches of France and Germany also murdered anabaptists (as did the Angicans). That is why modern BAPTISTS advocate for separation of Church and State and demanded that be in the U.S. Bill of Rights.
atpollard
Well-known member
Not "difficult" just a "waste of time".
True to form ... It can be "debunked" [so you claim by fiat] ... but then you WON'T even try [You speak 'ex cathedra' as the Pope of BAM]
"GodsGrace has said it, thus it is so!"
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