Ephesians 2:8 salvation is the gift

[brightfame52]

Faith in Eph 2:8 comes /accompanies the Grace that saved us, or made us alive from being dead in sin. Eph 2:5,8

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened[made alive] us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

One writer writes:

FAITH IS NOT MAN'S ACT, FOR A SPIRITUALLY DEAD MAN CANNOT ACT IN ANY WAY THAT IS PLEASING AND ACCEPTABLE TO GOD. SAVING FAITH IS NOT MAN’S GIFT TO GOD, BUT A GIFT FROM GOD TO MAN, and no one can please Him without it!! (see Heb. 11:6). Someone once wrote me saying, “Grace is a product of our faith”. This is the kind of reverse thinking that is synonymous with spiritual deadness. Such people cannot discern the things of God. Scripture declares both grace and faith to be gifts of God. Neither are of ourselves, nor do they emanate from our works (see Eph. 2). https://www.godsonlygospel.com/by-grace-alone-32

 

[Jim]

Participles modify nouns or pronouns in a sentence, adding descriptive detail.

Yes, and occasionally participles are in the form of adverbs modifying verbs as, for example, Matthew 28:19-20 where the participles baptizing and teaching are participles modifying the verb make.

My point was that it is not typical that Ephesians 2:8 that it is translated as a participle. It is translated as a verb in the past tense passive voice. I did note that the YLT did translate it as a participle.

 

[atpollard]

Saved (sozo)is indeed a verb, Yet my software identifies it as a perfect passive, participle, nominative, masculine.

This is why

A participle is a verb form that can function as an adjective or to form certain verb tenses. There are two main types of participles:

• Present participles, which typically end in -ing and describe ongoing actions (e.g., "running").
• Past participles, which often end in -ed, -en, or other variations, and indicate completed actions (e.g., "broken").
  https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=3044...2suY29tL2Jsb2cvdmVyYnMvcGFydGljaXBsZXMv&ntb=1
  
  
  Participles modify nouns or pronouns in a sentence, adding descriptive detail.

And occasionally participles are in the form of adverbs modifying verbs.

What a world ... we get to refresh our knowledge of THEOLOGY and GRAMMAR at the same time.

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

Every church is composed of "Wheat" (Born again Christians), and "Tares" (Folks having the appearence, but not the REALITY of Christianity). We're warned NOT to try to sort 'em out, lest we discard some "Wheat" in our "Purity" efforts.

Those in sin and error are to be put out till repentance is made . Unless you t hink paul was in error
for having such put out .

 

[FreeInChrist]

For everyone who has an interest... I am providing this...

I am not in this other than to see where it ultimately will lead.....and to see if, as I was told, it likely will lead to a discussion of how this construction differs from a simple aorist passive verb.

In Epistle to the Ephesians 2:8, the key phrase in Greek is:

σεσῳσμένοι ἐστε (sesōsmenoi este)


Let’s break that down:

~σεσῳσμένοι (sesōsmenoi) = perfect participle, passive voice
~ἐστε (este) = you are (present indicative of “to be”)

So grammatically, it is:
a perfect passive participle + a present form of “to be”

This construction forms what’s called a periphrastic perfect ~ which functions like a perfect tense verb in English.

That’s why most translations render it as:

~“you have been saved” (ESV, NIV, NASB)
~“ye are saved” (KJV — older English style)

So who’s right?​

The following is correct in this sense...

~It is not typically translated as a participle in English (“having been saved” would sound awkward here).

~It is translated as a perfect passive verb idea — “have been saved.”

~It clearly carries past action with continuing results (that’s the force of the Greek perfect tense).

However, technically speaking:

~The word σεσῳσμένοι is a participle in Greek form.
But functionally, in this construction, it behaves like a finite verb because of the “you are.”

​

So to summarize.....

Form: Perfect passive participle

Function: Periphrastic perfect verb

Translation sense: “You have been saved” (past action, ongoing result)

So the most precise answer is: grammatically it is a participle, but it functions as a perfect passive verb in translation.

It is a participle in form, but because it is joined with ἐστε (“you are”), it forms a periphrastic perfect construction, which carries the force of a completed action with continuing results.

And in case you’re wondering where I’m getting all this…


I had a high school English teacher, Miss Dorothy Bryson, who was a strict stickler for proper pronunciation and grammar ... and absolutely relentless about sentence diagramming.


RIP Miss Bryson. You taught us well.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Those in sin and error are to be put out till repentance is made . Unless you t hink paul was in error
for having such put out .

Two different things are in play - "Christians" who live in OBVIOUS SIN, and unbiblical practices are subject to discipline, It's the difference between the DRAGON, and the "LAMB" that speaks like a dragon (Rev 13:11)

The insidious problem, however are "Lamb/Dragon Christians" who are, by observation, acting properly, acceptably religious, and following the tenets of their chosen religious system, but aren't really Born again at all, following "Theology" instead of FAITH. They're present in ALL churches to varying degrees of concentration.

 

[TomL]

Yes, and occasionally participles are in the form of adverbs modifying verbs as, for example, Matthew 28:19-20 where the participles baptizing and teaching are participles modifying the verb make.

My point was that it is not typical that Ephesians 2:8 that it is translated as a participle. It is translated as a verb in the past tense passive voice. I did note that the YLT did translate it as a participle.

I quoted from my lexical Morphical data reading while using the New American Standard, but the data is the same throughout using multiple translations as it is based upon the lexical data source

 

[brightfame52]

One of the principle teachings of Scripture is that saving Faith is a gift from God, and not an act of man's which precedes the new birth. Otherwise, we would have the absurd and thoroughly unbiblical situation of a man believing before being born again, believing without being born of God, believing before he is saved, savingly believing whilst dead, which would then make salvation a reward for a work of man's, and not a free gift from God. None of the people Christ made alive again could do anything physically to release themselves from death so that Jesus could then make them alive. The whole concept is perfectly ridiculous. God waits for dead people to do something before He makes them alive? The Lord did not wait upon Lazarus or the damsel in Mark 5 to do something before He made them alive. He did not receive their consent, or permission to be brought back to life, but simply and Sovereignly commanded what God willed to occur. IT WAS CHRIST'S MAKING THEM ALIVE THAT PRECEDED THEM DOING ANYTHING!! Life is God’s gift to the chosen dead https://www.godsonlygospel.com/by-grace-alone-32

 

[Wick Stick]

Faith is not the gift, salvation is, see below in Ephesians 2:8

1- salvation - being saved is by grace
2- salvation by grace comes by/thought faith ( genitive case )
3- salvation by grace does not come from yourself- this ( nominative case ) refers to salvation ( nominative case ) which is the gift by Gods grace.
4- salvation is the gift (nominative case )of Gods grace

conclusion: gift, salvation and this are all in the nominative case is in agreement therefor they point to salvation as the gift not faith.

Barnes the Calvinist Theologian agrees below- faith is mans responsibility.

Barnes' Notes on the Bible
This is the work of God - This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth, Romans 10:4.

conclusion: gift, salvation and this are all in the nominative case is in agreement therefor they point to salvation as the gift not faith.

And AT Robertson the premier NT Greek Scholar below :

For by grace (τῃ γαρ χαριτι [tēi gar chariti]). Explanatory reason. “By the grace” already mentioned in verse 5 and so with the article. Through faith (δια πιστεως [dia pisteōs]). This phrase he adds in repeating what he said in verse 5 to make it plainer. “Grace” is God’s part, “faith” ours. And that (και τουτο [kai touto]). Neuter, not feminine ταυτη [tautē], and so refers not to πιστις [pistis] (feminine) or to χαρις [charis] (feminine also), but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part. Paul shows that salvation does not have its source (ἐξ ὑμων [ex humōn], out of you) in men, but from God. Besides, it is God’s gift (δωρον [dōron]) and not the result of our work.11 A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Eph 2:8.

conclusion: gift, salvation and this are all in the nominative case is in agreement therefor they point to salvation as the gift not faith.

Ephesians 2:8 refers back to verse 5, three verses earlier:

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

Here, "saved" is equal to "quickened" (made-alive). This quickening is also the gift in verse 8.

I am of the opinion that both verses might be better translated, "because of grace you are healed."

In defense of that, there are 8 other places in the Bible where the word here translated "saved" (σεσῳσμένοι) is instead translated "healed."

 

[civic]

Ephesians 2:8 refers back to verse 5, three verses earlier:

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

Here, "saved" is equal to "quickened" (made-alive). This quickening is also the gift in verse 8.

I am of the opinion that both verses might be better translated, "because of grace you are healed."

In defense of that, there are 8 other places in the Bible where the word here translated "saved" (σεσῳσμένοι) is instead translated "healed."

Interesting I’ll have to do a deep dive word study, thanks