Ephesians 2:8 salvation is the gift

[Jim]

@civic

Well that's true, for Salvation is of the Lord! (Jonah 2:9) So why do you and others teach that "our" faith, repentance, is how we received the new birth? You @civic are confused, no pun intended, just stating a fact.

Have you never truly considered that even the very life of faith we now live in the flesh, even that life is by the faith of Christ produce by the new man that is created after the image of Jesus Christ, that's within each of God's elect?

Galatians 2:20​

“I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.”

Time will not allow me at this time to answer your post or @FreeInChrist, but the Lord willing, I will after tomorrow, since I have a lot to do between now and then preaching out of town and I must get more ready more than I am now for that, even though I have put many hours into getting ready, for God's people deserves our best effort.

So, later. RB

Galatians 2:20​

(ASV) I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ living in me: and that life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith which is IN the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me.

(ESV) I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith IN the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

(ISV) I no longer live, but the Messiah lives in me, and the life that I am now living in this body I live by the faithfulness of the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

(NASB) "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith IN the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

(NET) I have been crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So the life I now live in the body, I live because of the faithfulness of the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

(NIrV) I have been crucified with Christ. I don't live any longer. Christ lives in me. My faith IN the Son of God helps me to live my life in my body. He loved me. He gave himself for me.

(NIV) I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith IN the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

(NKJV) I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith IN the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

(RV) I have been crucified with Christ; yet I live; and yet no longer I, but Christ liveth in me: and that life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith which is IN the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me.

 

[TomL]

@Red Baker

Ephesians 2:8​

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:”

“By grace you have been saved through faith… it is the gift of God.”

The passage clearly teaches that salvation is by grace and not by works.

Faith is the means through which that grace is received.

The text does not explicitly state that faith follows regeneration; it simply affirms that salvation is God’s gift, received through faith.

Yes
Regeneration is life, but life is not received until after faith.


Those who do not believe will not see life

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.

John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”

1 John 5:12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:40 (ESV) — 40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

So scripture refutes Calvinism’s belief that unbelievers may be given life so that they may believe

 

[FreeInChrist]

Romans 10:17 does, however. look up "Hearing of faith". Why did Abraham have "FAITH"? God's WORD TO HIM personally - same way God deals with us. Without the "CONVICTION OF SIN" from the holy Spirit (which is the beginning of FAITH, WE'd never become Christians.

Faith comes from listening to the message about Christ, as stated in Romans 10:17, which emphasizes that hearing the word of God is essential for developing faith.

Romans 10:17 Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the ...​

New Heart English Bible So faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. Webster's Bible Translation So then, faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Weymouth New Testament And this proves that faith comes from a Message heard,

 

[FreeInChrist]

Time will not allow me at this time to answer your post or @FreeInChrist, but the Lord willing, I will after tomorrow, since I have a lot to do between now and then preaching out of town and I must get more ready more than I am now for that, even though I have put many hours into getting ready, for God's people deserves our best effort.

This I will wait to read but as anxious as I am to get into it with you, I might have to wait a week or so as I am moving this week and prepping for an estate sale a week from this Monday... and you my friend deserve the very best we... The Holy Spirit and I ... can poffer and as yet, while the Holy Spirit has answered for me in the past through my fingers and a keyboard, I am going to need my fingers....

Ill just watch for your exchjange and keep them so soon I can.

So, later. RB

 

[FreeInChrist]

Yes
Regeneration is life, but life is not received until after faith.

Not only is this a statement of truth, truly stated... it IS provable in the Bible.

Scripture never says we are made alive so that we may believe. Instead, it repeatedly says that whoever believes has life. Faith is the condition God has appointed for receiving life. Predestination speaks to God’s sovereign plan, but it does not reverse the clear biblical order: faith comes first, and life follows.

Otherwise, IMO, predestination, is meaning that God does it all for man... regenerates them then gifts them with faith allowing for man be a puppet only in the way the believers of that believe.

Those who do not believe will not see life

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.

John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”

1 John 5:12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:40 (ESV) — 40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

So scripture refutes Calvinism’s belief that unbelievers may be given life so that they may believe

 

[civic]

@civic

Well that's true, for Salvation is of the Lord! (Jonah 2:9) So why do you and others teach that "our" faith, repentance, is how we received the new birth? You @civic are confused, no pun intended, just stating a fact.

Have you never truly considered that even the very life of faith we now live in the flesh, even that life is by the faith of Christ produce by the new man that is created after the image of Jesus Christ, that's within each of God's elect?

Galatians 2:20​

“I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.”

Time will not allow me at this time to answer your post or @FreeInChrist, but the Lord willing, I will after tomorrow, since I have a lot to do between now and then preaching out of town and I must get more ready more than I am now for that, even though I have put many hours into getting ready, for God's people deserves our best effort.

So, later. RB

The scriptures are in unison how we received the new birth. It came from believing the gospel. The new birth comes after hearing and believing the gospel.

so we see the new birth is a result of hearing and believing the preaching of the word of God. the gospel message.

James 1:18
He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we would be a kind of firstfruits of His creation.

1 Peter 1:25
But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

1 Peter 1:21-24
Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God. 22 Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart. 23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24 For,

“All people are like grass,
and all their glory is like the flowers of the field;
the grass withers and the flowers fall,
25 but the word of the Lord endures forever.”
And this is the word that was preached to you.

1 John 5:1
1Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God. Whoever loves the Father also loves the child who is born of him.

Romans 10:17
Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

Ephesians 5:26
to sanctify her, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,

Ephesians 1:13-14
And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth—the gospel of your salvation—you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, / who is the pledge of our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession, to the praise of His glory.

1 Corinthians 4:15
Even if you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.

2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we should always thank God for you, brothers who are loved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning to be saved by the sanctification of the Spirit and by faith in the truth.

Colossians 1:5-6
the faith and love proceeding from the hope stored up for you in heaven, of which you have already heard in the word of truth, the gospel/ that has come to you. All over the world this gospel is bearing fruit and growing, just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and truly understood the grace of God.

Hope this helps !!!

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Faith comes from listening to the message about Christ, as stated in Romans 10:17, which emphasizes that hearing the word of God is essential for developing faith.

Romans 10:17 Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the ...​

New Heart English Bible So faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. Webster's Bible Translation So then, faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Weymouth New Testament And this proves that faith comes from a Message heard,

"heard" is the key. Biblically it's "loaded" meaning "Hear", Understand, and OBEY. Conviction of SIN from the Holy Spirit (God's WORD specifically to you) is the genesis of personal FAITH.

 

[TomL]

@civic

Well that's true, for Salvation is of the Lord! (Jonah 2:9) So why do you and others teach that "our" faith, repentance, is how we received the new birth? You @civic are confused, no pun intended, just stating a fact.

Have you never truly considered that even the very life of faith we now live in the flesh, even that life is by the faith of Christ produce by the new man that is created after the image of Jesus Christ, that's within each of God's elect?

Galatians 2:20​

“I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.”

Time will not allow me at this time to answer your post or @FreeInChrist, but the Lord willing, I will after tomorrow, since I have a lot to do between now and then preaching out of town and I must get more ready more than I am now for that, even though I have put many hours into getting ready, for God's people deserves our best effort.

So, later. RB

Clearly faith is considered a prerequisite for life.

Acts 16:31 (NASB 95) — 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Rom 10:9–10 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
John 20:31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.
Mark 16:16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

1 John 5:11–12 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

 

[brightfame52]

“Think about Ephesians 2:8,9: ‘For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of (from) yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast’
. So God’s grace, and the faith in that grace (your belief in His grace), are both His gift to you. You do not earn it or perform anything to help out. In the original language, the word ‘this’ (from the phrase 'this is not of yourselves') refers to both grace and faith as one ‘package gift’: ‘this grace and faith, together, are the gift of God and not from yourselves’. The whole of your salvation is God’s gift. So, you cannot take pride in your salvation, nor can you claim that you did something to play a part in it https://www.godsonlygospel.com/by-grace-alone-31

 

[Jim]

“Think about Ephesians 2:8,9: ‘For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of (from) yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast’
. So God’s grace, and the faith in that grace (your belief in His grace), are both His gift to you. You do not earn it or perform anything to help out. In the original language, the word ‘this’ (from the phrase 'this is not of yourselves') refers to both grace and faith as one ‘package gift’: ‘this grace and faith, together, are the gift of God and not from yourselves’. The whole of your salvation is God’s gift. So, you cannot take pride in your salvation, nor can you claim that you did something to play a part in it https://www.godsonlygospel.com/by-grace-alone-31

The Greek word τουτο is neuter while the Greek words χαριτι and πιστεως are both feminine. Thus τουτο, i.e., "this", refers to neither grace nor faith; but rather back to the entire phrase, "by grace you have been saved through faith" . The only way to understand that sentence is that it is salvation received by grace through faith that is the gift. And of course that is the universal message of the NT. The false Calvinist interpretation of Ephesians 2:8 as faith being a gift is truly pathetic.

 

[FreeInChrist]

The Greek word τουτο is neuter while the Greek words χαριτι and πιστεως are both feminine. Thus τουτο, i.e., "this", refers to neither grace nor faith; but rather back to the entire phrase, "by grace you have been saved through faith" . The only way to understand that sentence is that it is salvation received by grace through faith that is the gift. And of course that is the universal message of the NT. The false Calvinist interpretation of Ephesians 2:8 as faith being a gift is truly pathetic.

Yet again....
“For by grace you have been saved through faith…”


Let’s slow it down and take a deep breath

What the verse clearly says​

Salvation is by grace (it originates in God).

It is through faith (faith is the means by which we receive it).

It is not from yourselves… not by works (so no earning).

What it does not explicitly say:

It does not say faith is irresistibly given only to a predetermined group.

It does not say humans have no meaningful response.

That theological framework comes from how some traditions connect this verse with others — not from this sentence alone.

Can this verse fit free will?​

Yes. Unquestionably.

In a free-will understanding: Grace is God’s initiative and enabling. Faith is the genuine human response to that grace. Salvation remains 100% undeserved. The credit goes to God, not to the believer.

Faith in this view is not a “work.” It’s trust. Receiving a gift does not earn the gift.

If I offer you a gift, your reaching out your hand does not mean you purchased it.

 

[brightfame52]

The Greek word τουτο is neuter while the Greek words χαριτι and πιστεως are both feminine

I already know that.

 

[civic]

I already know that.

then you would believe like we do and reject your pov.

 

[brightfame52]

then you would believe like we do and reject your pov.

Like I said, I already knew that, being knowing it for the 30-40 years

 

[dwight92070]

Faith is not the gift, salvation is, see below in Ephesians 2:8

1- salvation - being saved is by grace
2- salvation by grace comes by/thought faith ( genitive case )
3- salvation by grace does not come from yourself- this ( nominative case ) refers to salvation ( nominative case ) which is the gift by Gods grace.
4- salvation is the gift (nominative case )of Gods grace

conclusion: gift, salvation and this are all in the nominative case is in agreement therefor they point to salvation as the gift not faith.

Barnes the Calvinist Theologian agrees below- faith is mans responsibility.

Barnes' Notes on the Bible
This is the work of God - This is the thing that will be acceptable to God, or which you are to do in order to be saved. Jesus did not tell them they had nothing to do, or that they were to sit down and wait, but that there was a work to perform, and that was a duty that was imperative. It was to believe on the Messiah. This is the work which sinners are to do; and doing this they will be saved, for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth, Romans 10:4.

conclusion: gift, salvation and this are all in the nominative case is in agreement therefor they point to salvation as the gift not faith.

And AT Robertson the premier NT Greek Scholar below :

For by grace (τῃ γαρ χαριτι [tēi gar chariti]). Explanatory reason. “By the grace” already mentioned in verse 5 and so with the article. Through faith (δια πιστεως [dia pisteōs]). This phrase he adds in repeating what he said in verse 5 to make it plainer. “Grace” is God’s part, “faith” ours. And that (και τουτο [kai touto]). Neuter, not feminine ταυτη [tautē], and so refers not to πιστις [pistis] (feminine) or to χαρις [charis] (feminine also), but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part. Paul shows that salvation does not have its source (ἐξ ὑμων [ex humōn], out of you) in men, but from God. Besides, it is God’s gift (δωρον [dōron]) and not the result of our work.11 A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Eph 2:8.

conclusion: gift, salvation and this are all in the nominative case is in agreement therefor they point to salvation as the gift not faith.

I agree with you 100%. However, Romans 12:3 tells us that "God has allotted to each a measure of faith", so it appears that faith is also a gift. The question is, what do we do with that faith that God has given us? Do we exercise it or bury it in the ground? We have a responsibility to exercise our faith-in Jesus and in God. Because without faith, it is impossible to please God.

 

[FreeInChrist]

I already know that.

No, You dont.

 

[civic]

I agree with you 100%. However, Romans 12:3 tells us that "God has allotted to each a measure of faith", so it appears that faith is also a gift. The question is, what do we do with that faith that God has given us? Do we exercise it or bury it in the ground? We have a responsibility to exercise our faith-in Jesus and in God. Because without faith, it is impossible to please God.

Agree God gives Christians faith and notice that context- its using our gifts for the body and to build it up. Its not talking about salvific faith.

Just last week in our couples group we could see that in action as we all shared our faith in God and His faithfulness in our lives throughout the years. It encouraged each other, built us up and strengthened our faith.

hope this helps !!!

 

[brightfame52]

No, You dont.

I dont have to prove nothing to you, we will see on Judgment day

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

"heard" is the key. Biblically it's "loaded" meaning "Hear", Understand, and OBEY. Conviction of SIN from the Holy Spirit (God's WORD specifically to you) is the genesis of personal FAITH.

Conviction of sin . that be a key sign all right .
Yet i dont seem to see t his in many christains . i see rainbows and korans g etting kissed

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Conviction of sin . that be a key sign all right .
Yet i dont seem to see t his in many christains . i see rainbows and korans g etting kissed

Every church is composed of "Wheat" (Born again Christians), and "Tares" (Folks having the appearence, but not the REALITY of Christianity). We're warned NOT to try to sort 'em out, lest we discard some "Wheat" in our "Purity" efforts.