Educating unitarians on biblical worship

[civic]

Here He is God


John 1:1 (NASB 95) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:18 (NASB 95) — 18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

John 20:28 (NASB 95) — 28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Matthew 1:23 (NASB 95) — 23 “BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL,” which translated means, “GOD WITH US.”

Acts 2:38–39 (NASB 95) — 38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.”

Titus 2:13 (NASB 95) — 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

2 Peter 1:1 (NASB 95) — 1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:

Colossians 2:9 (NASB 95) — 9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

Isaiah 7:14 (NASB 95) — 14 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

Isaiah 9:6 (NASB 95) — 6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Philippians 2:6 (NASB 95) — 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Revelation 1:7–8 (NASB 95) — 7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen. 8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

1 John 5:20 (NASB 95) — 20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

Hebrews 1:3 (NASB 95) — 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

John 10:30 (NASB 95) — 30 I and the Father are one.”

Yes since He is both God and man the He is the Perfect and only One who can be Priest, King, Mediator and the Atonement. They cannot see the forest through the trees. It took the One who made the covenant to be the One that enforced it via His death as Hebrews 9 declares.

Hebrews 9:16-18
In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it,17because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. 18This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood

Since YHWH made the covenant it took His death for the will to take effect.

The uni’s once again have no leg to stand on they have been cut off by Gods truth

 

[TomL]

Yes since He is both God and man the He is the Perfect and only One who can be Priest, King, Mediator and the Atonement. They cannot see the forest through the trees. It took the One who made the covenant to be the One that enforced it via His death as Hebrews 9 declares.

Hebrews 9:16-18
In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it,17because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. 18This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood

Since YHWH made the covenant it took His death for the will to take effect.

The uni’s once again have no leg to stand on they have been cut off by Gods truth

Yep

Yes since He is both God and man the He is the Perfect and only One who can be Priest, King, Mediator and the Atonement.

 

[Grace ambassador]

But, hopefully All are:

before one's 'last breath' (Hebrews 9:27 AV), and:

The LORD Jesus Christ's [ God's ] Judgment post 3,067 elsewhere?

Amen.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Yes since He is both God and man the He is the Perfect and only One who can be Priest, King, Mediator and the Atonement.

“For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and mankind, the Man Christ Jesus”
Two reflections:
1) Paul did not say that Jesus is the mediator between man and The Father. He said Jesus was the mediator between man and God. So who is this God? It can’t be Jesus, as Jesus is the Mediator between you and God. In Pauline scriptures, God equals The Father, as I have proven in this forum by presenting dozens of verses from Paul’s letters. I still have in my computer the full list if anyone is interested.
2) For greater clarity, Paul calls this mediator “Man”, in contrast with the Person the mediator mediates to, which he calls “God”.

 

[mikesw]

“For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and mankind, the Man Christ Jesus”
Two reflections:
1) Paul did not say that Jesus is the mediator between man and The Father. He said Jesus was the mediator between man and God. So who is this God? It can’t be Jesus, as Jesus is the Mediator between you and God. In Pauline scriptures, God equals The Father, as I have proven in this forum by presenting dozens of verses from Paul’s letters. I still have in my computer the full list if anyone is interested.
2) For greater clarity, Paul calls this mediator “Man”, in contrast with the Person the mediator mediates to, which he calls “God”.

Jesus gets noticed in uniqueness for his humanity via incarnation. Gal 3:19-20 is solved by recognizing Jesus is One in the Godhead with the Father. So Jesus is both the mediator whose blood was sacrificed for the sins of humanity and thus is the only means of justification and reconciliation with God and Jesus is also deity in that same God since he is One with the Father. It is not as if 1 Timothy 2:5 somehow dismisses John 1.

It should not matter to a person of the Bahai faith since they do not recognize Jesus as the only source of reconciliation with God.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Jesus gets noticed in uniqueness for his humanity via incarnation. Gal 3:19-20 is solved by recognizing Jesus is One in the Godhead with the Father. So Jesus is both the mediator whose blood was sacrificed for the sins of humanity and thus is the only means of justification and reconciliation with God and Jesus is also deity in that same God since he is One with the Father. It is not as if 1 Timothy 2:5 somehow dismisses John 1.

But how can a mediator reconcile us with God if the mediator is God?
By definition, a mediator can’t be the person with whom we are reconciliated.

It should not matter to a person of the Bahai faith since they do not recognize Jesus as the only source of reconciliation with God.

It matters only when people condemn other people to torture and destruction for not believing X or Y.
If you believe that Unitarian Christians will burn in hell forever because they don’t recognize Jesus’ deity then it matters to me.
If you don’t believe that, I congratulate you. Then the doctrinal difference is just a source of interesting discussion in a fraternal spirit we can have with a cup of coffee or chocolate, and I like that.

 

[TomL]

“For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and mankind, the Man Christ Jesus”
Two reflections:
1) Paul did not say that Jesus is the mediator between man and The Father. He said Jesus was the mediator between man and God. So who is this God? It can’t be Jesus, as Jesus is the Mediator between you and God. In Pauline scriptures, God equals The Father, as I have proven in this forum by presenting dozens of verses from Paul’s letters. I still have in my computer the full list if anyone is interested.
2) For greater clarity, Paul calls this mediator “Man”, in contrast with the Person the mediator mediates to, which he calls “God”.

Yet the following assign deity to Christ

John 1:1 (NASB 95) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:18 (NASB 95) — 18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

John 20:28–29 (NASB 95) — 28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him,
“Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”

Matthew 1:23 (NASB 95) — 23 “BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL,” which translated means, “GOD WITH US.”

Acts 20:28 (NASB 95) — 28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

Titus 2:13 (NASB 95) — 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

Hebrews 1:3 (NASB 95) — 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Hebrews 1:8 (NASB 95) — 8 But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.

2 Peter 1:1 (NASB 95) — 1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:

1 John 5:20 (NASB 95) — 20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

Philippians 2:6–7 (NASB 95) — 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

Isaiah 7:14 (NASB 95) — 14 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

Isaiah 9:6 (NASB 95) — 6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Yet the following assign deity to Christ

John 1:1 (NASB 95) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:18 (NASB 95) — 18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

John 20:28–29 (NASB 95) — 28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him,
“Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”

Matthew 1:23 (NASB 95) — 23 “BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL,” which translated means, “GOD WITH US.”

Acts 20:28 (NASB 95) — 28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

Titus 2:13 (NASB 95) — 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

Hebrews 1:3 (NASB 95) — 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Hebrews 1:8 (NASB 95) — 8 But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.

2 Peter 1:1 (NASB 95) — 1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:

1 John 5:20 (NASB 95) — 20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

Philippians 2:6–7 (NASB 95) — 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

Isaiah 7:14 (NASB 95) — 14 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

Isaiah 9:6 (NASB 95) — 6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Hi TomL

Thanks for the list of 13 verses.
If you read them carefully five of them seem to explicitly identify Christ as God.
These are the verses you quoted from John 20:28, Titus 2:13, Hebrews 1:8, 2 Peter 1:1 and 1 John 5:20.
(John 1:18 reads differently in several translations).
The number of verses that identify the Father (but not Jesus) as God are far more numerous, far more explicit, and some pronounced by Jesus Himself. Equally important, they are consistent with reason and the reality of your religious life.
Since we both believe that the Bible cannot be teaching two radically different theologies (God is one Person vs God are three persons) then one of them is a misinterpretation.

 

[TomL]

Hi TomL

Thanks for the list of 13 verses.
If you read them carefully five of them seem to explicitly identify Christ as God.
These are the verses you quoted from John 20:28, Titus 2:13, Hebrews 1:8, 2 Peter 1:1 and 1 John 5:20.
(John 1:18 reads differently in several translations).
The number of verses that identify the Father (but not Jesus) as God are far more numerous, far more explicit, and some pronounced by Jesus Himself. Equally important, they are consistent with reason and the reality of your religious life.
Since we both believe that the Bible cannot be teaching two radically different theologies (God is one Person vs God are three persons) then one of them is a misinterpretation.

You left off

John 1:1–3 (NASB 95) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

And scripture is not a misinterpretation