Easily Dispelling The Trinity

[praise_yeshua]

Exactly! As I said before, the Greek word "θεω" denotes His nature, not His person. That is verified by the fact that the Greek word for “God” (θεω) has an energy word structure (an “ω” at the end of the word) as do other Greek energy verbs such as “run” (τρέχω), “see” (διαβλέπω), or “burn” (κατακαίω). The word Greek word “God” itself is an energy word, signifying how we relate to God, through his Divine Nature (Divine Energies, to be more exact). The Greek NT is chalk full of the Greek word energia (energy) and its derivatives. I can list out all those verses if one is interested. Jay Dyer gets into that fact in one of his youtube video. I can supply that address for those interested.

God is a Spirit. They that worship Him, must worship Him in spirit and in truth. Which lines up the essence of the "Spirit" of God with our spirit in worship.

Thusly, there is little "distance" between the Person of the Father, the Spirit, and the Son in essence from His creation in the new creature. Which is why I have no problem with using the word "person" in reference to character/characteristics of God.

 

[praise_yeshua]

We don't like the term "modes," this loses a vital distinction.

Thanks. I'll see if I can find where it is referenced in the thread. There is uniqueness in the "mode" in comparison to some qualities. However, generally speaking, I think it is an accurate choice of words.

 

[praise_yeshua]

To be clear. I believe the word Person is inclusive of the entire nature of God. I believe some try to imply "persona", which is where I believe the issue begins.

 

[synergy]

God is a Spirit. They that worship Him, must worship Him in spirit and in truth. Which lines up the essence of the "Spirit" of God with our spirit in worship.

Thusly, there is little "distance" between the Person of the Father, the Spirit, and the Son in essence from His creation in the new creature. Which is why I have no problem with using the word "person" in reference to character/characteristics of God.

That is true as far as God's divine energies is concerned, as the Koine Greek NT informs us. It's when you get into God's divine essence that it does not hold. God the Father lives in light unapproachable and no one has seen Him as the Bible tells us. This essence/energies distinction is very important because God is both imminent and transcendent.

 

[praise_yeshua]

That is true as far as God's divine energies is concerned, as the Koine Greek NT informs us. It's when you get into God's divine essence that it does not hold. God the Father lives in light unapproachable and no one has seen Him as the Bible tells us. This essence/energies distinction is very important because God is both imminent and transcendent.

We have "essence" and "energies" gifted us from the Father. Oh what manner of love He has BESTOWED upon us that we should be called the "Sons of God".

While there maybe"rank" or "intensity" there are also shared qualities (in His likeness) .... though He certainly "shines" brighter than our own.

There is overlap in the application but I'm not fearful that it creates a meaningful issue in using the expression. I'm well aware of my "lowly rank" in comparison to His "lofty rank".

 

[synergy]

We have "essence" and "energies" gifted us from the Father. Oh what manner of love He has BESTOWED upon us that we should be called the "Sons of God".

While there maybe"rank" or "intensity" there are also shared qualities (in His likeness) .... though He certainly "shines" brighter than our own.

There is overlap in the application but I'm not fearful that it creates a meaningful issue in using the expression. I'm well aware of my "lowly rank" in comparison to His "lofty rank".

God the Father is characterized as follows:

(1 Tim 6:16) who alone has immortality, dwelling in light which cannot be approached, whom no one of men have seen, nor can see; to whom be honor and power everlasting. Amen.

The Father's essence can never be seen.

 

[e v e]

Here, the bulwark against the inherently contradictory and anti-Biblical doctrine of the trinity will be presented. These ABC’s (OT) and 123’s (NT) will easily demonstrate the monotheist text of Scripture, the perspective through which one ought to view trinitarians vain attempt to impose their tri-une exegesis interpretation.

Consider the emphatic way God communicated to Moses, by putting his commands in stone. This represents the ultimate way of explicit communication in all of human history. By contrast, trinitarian’s sad attempt to read contradictory doctrine into monotheist text ridiculous and cannot hold up to scrutiny. This is why they disregard what follows and try to rationalize their doctrine with complexity of artificial synthesis.

ABC’s (OT)

• Only YHWH is God.
  • Deut 6:4 (NOG). Listen, Israel: Yahweh is our Elohim. Yahweh is the only God.
• YHWH is God’s only and eternal name – for all generations.
  • Ex 3:15 (NLT). Yahweh, the God of your ancestors—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you. This is my eternal name, my name to remember for all generations.
• 1C, You shall have no other gods but YHWH – including the trinity god.
  • Ex 20:3 (NLT) You must not have any other god but me.

123’s (NT)

• All the Gospels proclaim Jesus is God’s Anointed. None claim Jesus is YHWH incarnate.
  • Matthew 1:1 (VOICE) This is the family history, the genealogy, of Jesus the Anointed, the coming King.
  • Mark 1:1 (VOICE). This is the beginning of the good news of Jesus, the Anointed One, the Liberating King, the Son of God.
  • Luke 1:4 I want you to know that you can fully rely on the things you have been taught about Jesus, God’s Anointed One.
  • John 20:31 (VOICE). These accounts are recorded so that you, too, might believe that Jesus is the Anointed, the Liberating King, the Son of God, because believing grants you the life He came to share.
• 
  
• God made Jesus and gave Jesus authority – but not over God, Himself.
  • Acts 2:36 (CEV). God has made Jesus both Lord and Christ
  • 1 Corinthians 15:27 “God has put all things under his authority.”[a] (Of course, when it says “all things are under his authority,” that does not include God himself, who gave Christ his authority.
• 
  
• Jesus has a God, who we relate to as Father, who is the only true God.
  • John 17:1-3 (NLT) Father … And this is the way to have eternal life—to know you, the only true God.
  • John 20:17 ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
• 
  
• Salvation Depends on Believing God raised Jesus from the dead.
  
  • Roman 10:9 (Not "the Father" but God.) If you openly declare that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
• The resurrected Jesus, sitting on God’s throne in heaven is STILL not God.
  • Rev 1:1 (NLT). This is a revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him.
  • Rev 3:12. Jesus invokes his God 4 times in 1 sentence.

why would it bother you that Christ is deity?

Christ is His Son and just like Him and IN Him.

Is God not allowed to have a Son, and Sons, in your beliefs?

Is He to be alone ?

But He is not alone....

Christ talks to Him and His Spirit talks to Him...
They are one yet three gorgeous beings.

 

[e v e]

A unitarian god cannot know or experience love as a solitary person.

Yes...! Why would God be alone?

Of course not.

 

[Frank Russell]

Again, I ask for a Bible verse to prove person = God.

I get one that disproves it, and compares two persons to one God.

John 10:33 and 34 specifically deals with that subject matter.

33“We are not stoning You for any good work,” said the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because You, who are a man, declare Yourself to be God.” 34 Jesus replied, “Is it not written in your Law: ‘I have said you are gods’?

 

[praise_yeshua]

God the Father is characterized as follows:

(1 Tim 6:16) who alone has immortality, dwelling in light which cannot be approached, whom no one of men have seen, nor can see; to whom be honor and power everlasting. Amen.

The Father's essence can never be seen.

1Ti 6:16 He alone possesses immortality and lives in unapproachable light, whom no human has ever seen or is able to see. To him be honor and eternal power! Amen. NET

Notice the appeal to immortality here.... We are immortal. Angels are immortal. We do not have immortality of ourselves. It is gifted to us a measure of immortality. Jesus was transfigured before His disciples. I believe what Jesus said was true, they saw His Glory. The Glory of the Father represented by the Son.

Which is why I referred rank. The author of 1 Timothy isn't deny the manifestation of Divinity (Specifically the Father). He is simply qualifying it.

Would you go so far as to say that Jesus Christ LESSER in this characteristic of essence than the Father?

 

[Frank Russell]

each of the three modes of being of God, namely the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit, who together constitute the Trinity.

In context of the spiritual application on humans (John 17 prayer), the mode concept results in humans losing their sense of individuality and becoming part of one big blob. However, Jesus prayed that we be one as He and the Father are one. This type of oneness is distinct from the occult form that blurs identity lines.

 

[praise_yeshua]

In context of the spiritual application on humans (John 17 prayer), the mode concept results in humans losing their sense of individuality and becoming part of one big blob. However, Jesus prayed that we be one as He and the Father are one. This type of oneness is distinct from the occult form that blurs identity lines.

As such is a paradox. Which is why I draw the line with "persona" and have no problem with "person". We have no real identity without Christ. It is empty and devoid of Eternal qualities.

 

[Wrangler]

So what work did Jesus do that didn't reflect the Father?

It’s too bad your question didn’t have anything to do with the excellent Scripture you posted.

Honestly, I don’t understand what your question has to do with the OP. Because it’s from left field, out of context with the OP, I don’t know how to answer it.

 

[praise_yeshua]

It’s too bad your question didn’t have anything to do with the excellent Scripture you posted.

Honestly, I don’t understand what your question has to do with the OP. Because it’s from left field, out of context with the OP, I don’t know how to answer it.

I don't understand your denials. You're insisting the Son is lesser than the Father. That is clear. Why resist the description?

I've asked clearly what work/action of Christ shows that He is not identical to the Father....

In contrast, if we look at what you have done.... well... it is clear that you're not perfectly aligned. The same can be said of me. There is NONE like Jesus Christ. Which is a quality of Divinity.

Us.... you know how silly we are. Full of aspirations and powerless to fulfill them.

 

[Wrangler]

The above actions cannot be accomplished by a mere (object), influence or force.

LOL. Inferring the Spirit is a person does not address the fact that there is no name connected to IT.

I hold the Spirit is an attribute of God, akin to his will in action. Again, I provide the lack of a name as proof IT is not a person.

Can you provide one verse where anyone prays TO, rather than FOR the Spirit?

 

[synergy]

1Ti 6:16 He alone possesses immortality and lives in unapproachable light, whom no human has ever seen or is able to see. To him be honor and eternal power! Amen. NET

Notice the appeal to immortality here.... We are immortal. Angels are immortal. We do not have immortality of ourselves. It is gifted to us a measure of immortality. Jesus was transfigured before His disciples. I believe what Jesus said was true, they saw His Glory. The Glory of the Father represented by the Son.

They saw God's divine energies which are part of God's nature and are communicable to us humans as in the Transfiguration.

Nevertheless, 1 Tim 6:16 tells of God's essence which can never ever be seen.

That's why I say that God's nature is both imminent and transcendent.

Which is why I referred rank. The author of 1 Timothy isn't deny the manifestation of Divinity (Specifically the Father). He is simply qualifying it.

Not sure what you mean by rank? Are you ranking each person in the Trinity?

Would you go so far as to say that Jesus Christ LESSER in this characteristic of essence than the Father?

No, not at all. Christ is 100% God in every which way possible. He possess 100% divine nature, and 100% human nature.

 

[praise_yeshua]

They saw God's divine energies which are part of God's nature and are communicable to us humans as in the Transfiguration.

Nevertheless, 1 Tim 6:16 tells of God's essence which can never ever be seen.

That is not what 1 Tim 6:16 is saying. You misunderstand the words expressed. I gave you an example of immortality. It says God only has immortality. Isn't that what it says?

Why do you not apply the same standard to this expression as you do with "God's essence"?

That's why I say that God's nature is both imminent and transcendent.

Not sure what you mean by rank? Are you ranking each person in the Trinity?

No, not at all. Christ is 100% God in every which way possible. He possess 100% divine nature, and 100% human nature.

Christ condescended to humanity. He was made "lower" than the angels for suffering. This isn't an reference to characteristics associated with quality. It is reference solely to rank. "a position in the hierarchy".

He made Himself of NO reputation.

Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Being fashioned as man He humbled Himself and became obedient to death..... Again. References to hierarchy. Not characteristics associated with quality.

This is the problem that non-Trinitarians have and it is the most difficult aspect of trying to convince people of the qualities of Divinity within the Hypostatic Union.

All they see is what they think is an inferior quality of existence/essence associated with the Son. When it is not. Humility among men.....masked the true qualities of Jesus Christ from view.

Which why it is so important we get the Character of God right in teaching the Trinity.

 

[synergy]

LOL. Inferring the Spirit is a person does not address the fact that there is no name connected to IT.

I hold the Spirit is an attribute of God, akin to his will in action. Again, I provide the lack of a name as proof IT is not a person.

Can you provide one verse where anyone prays TO, rather than FOR the Spirit?

The Jewish Rabbis used the name Shekinah for the presence of the Holy Spirit as uncreated fire. In Acts, the tongues of fire represented the presence of God the Holy Spirit at Pentecost or when Moses encountered God the Holy Spirit at the burning bush, and later when God the Holy Spirit appeared in a pillar of fire to lead his people in the wilderness (Exodus 3:2; 13:21). @Johann can help me further on this.

Here are 32 more names that identify God the Holy Spirit as a Person. See "https://files.tyndale.com/thpdata/firstchapters/978-1-59636-207-9.pdf". That's because of His utter Divinity and Lordship.

If you are not a Jehovah Witness, you sound very close to one. Are you a Jehovah Witness?

 

[e v e]

LOL. Inferring the Spirit is a person does not address the fact that there is no name connected to IT.

I hold the Spirit is an attribute of God, akin to his will in action. Again, I provide the lack of a name as proof IT is not a person.

Can you provide one verse where anyone prays TO, rather than FOR the Spirit?

His Spirit is His attribute, a gorgeous Being...
and His core of Love from which He creates His reality.

It is so sweet that in paradise we were made to be in their image...

 

[makesends]

You shall have no other gods but YHWH – including the trinity god.

How is the Trinity not YHWH ??