Do you think that we need to be a 100 percent sin free in order to get God to listen to us?

Basically you are asking what happens when a sinner hears the gospel and knows that Jesus is the way to heaven and eternal life,
😳
wow..... you don't actually know how to understand what you read.
This makes it much more difficult to communicate with you.
No!
that's NOT what I ask.

I asked you

Do you know what the Greek word translated into perfect, is?
i encourage you to read up on it.



Please..... focus.

Here's a word search. Focus on the new testament uses.




Here's a Strong's Concordance link.



but we must be free from sin because slaves of sin do not inherit eternal life with God. John 8:32-36. Quickly we find that we cannot be holy by just choosing to live holy because of the sin nature we inherited from Adam's sin. Our secret thoughts causes unholy actions we cannot overcome by ourselves. The good news (gospel) is when we see ourselves helpless to be holy that we give up trying and repent that we ourselves are inadequate to stop being a slave to sin. This is when Jesus gives us the good news - the power of God cleanses us from ALL unrighteousness. Jesus blood cleanses the old man, our sin nature! That statement is not known by most of the church, except by those who have actually repented and received the power of the Holy Spirit.

First, Jesus takes out sins unto death from our nature. Our character takes on a whole new outlook. We love what God loves, and we hate what God hates. It is supernatural, but the natural man does not understand what happened to a Christian and many so called Christians believe that is heresy and foolishness. But the power of God is why a born again Christian cannot sin against the commandments of God - sins unto death. 1 John 3:9.

We also desire to learn more and more of the word of God. This is how we abide in Jesus. His Spirit is in our heart along with God's law and has super-sensitized our conscience. This is how we remain in Christ, by following our conscience and seeing our prayers being answered giving us intense joy. 1 John 3:21-22. This is the beginning of maturing in the fruit of the Spirit - immature fruit bears sins NOT unto death, but as we abide in Christ and His Spirit, we have fellowship with God and these sins not unto death are cleansed. 1 John 1:7.

This is why since 1977 when I was born again of the Spirit all of my prayers are answered and I received many gifts of the Spirit, and now signs and wonders not even described in Scripture, but ARE from God as the evidence produces the same result - knowledge of the powerful nature of God which eye has not seen (in the natural) and ear has not heard (in the natural).

Before 1977 since 1947 when I was born into a Christian home, not one prayer was answered and and heaven was silent. I had to choose to be a Christian but doubts developed. Little did I know that God would someday make me a Teacher and I would see miracles.


You went off on a tangent totally unrelated to my question.
 
😳
wow..... you don't actually know how to understand what you read.
This makes it much more difficult to communicate with you.
No!
that's NOT what I ask.

I asked you

Do you know what the Greek word translated into perfect, is?
i encourage you to read up on it.



Please..... focus.

Here's a word search. Focus on the new testament uses.




Here's a Strong's Concordance link.






You went off on a tangent totally unrelated to my question.
In this case perfect is holy. They are interchangeable. I hope you know that. You finally narrowed it down to what you actually are talking about. Thank you.
 
In this case perfect is holy.

The word, Holy, is (H)Agios

Please explain, indeed, show me, using the Strong's Concordance how two distinctly different words- agios and telioo are interchangeable.


They are interchangeable. I hope you know that.
You'll have to demonstrate that.
G40 is different than G5046.
 
In this case perfect is holy. They are interchangeable. I hope you know that. You finally narrowed it down to what you actually are talking about. Thank you.
Well, it's been over a week since I asked you my questions and you haven't responded.
I'm guessing that means you quit.
Disappointing....

As such, I think we're done here.
 

The word, Holy, is (H)Agios

Please explain, indeed, show me, using the Strong's Concordance how two distinctly different words- agios and telioo are interchangeable.



You'll have to demonstrate that.
G40 is different than G5046.
Peter is quoting Jesus when he said in 1 Peter 1:16 "because it is written, ā€œBe holy, for I am holy.ā€

Here is what Jesus actually said, Mt. 5:48 "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
 
I don't feel like my prayers get answered enough. I have heard many times that the prayers that get answered are the ones that line up with God's will. The closer you get to God then the better your life and heart lines with God's will.

Another thing I hear is unconfessed unrepentant sin prevents prayers from being answered. I also hear that some people struggle with persistent sin.

I think that I have some persistent sin in my life. For example, at the bottom of heart and body, I desire a female. I don't want us to get into any kind of big circular frustrating debate over this. But I mention it as a possibility that maybe my feelings on the matter keeps my prayers from being answered.

Another issue I see with myself is that I'm not very optimistic. I don't praise the lord in the storm. That sort of thing doesn't come naturally to me. So I wonder if maybe that flaw in myself gets in the way of prayer being answered.

Then I got to wondering, if sin can hinder prayers, then how do we know if asking Jesus to save us, really works at all. It's like, He's ok with you asking for forgiveness for being a sinner, and asking him to come inside, and yet the sins you struggle with after, those are the ones that get in the way.

As human beings, I don't think any of us are perfect, and if it takes 100 percent perfection. Meaning no sin, ever, for a prayer to get answered, then I would think that no prayers ever really do get answered.

I got to wondering, if sin hinders prayer, how much sin, and what specific sin does hinder prayer.

I don't enjoy being a sinner. I find that the sins I commit are all internal sins. They are temptations based on my feelings and inside thoughts.

Since I don't do well at fixing myself. I often try to pray and ask God to fix these internal problems. But if my sin prevents prayers from being answered, then that would mean that God is not hearing those prayers. When I was still a member of christianityboard, I tried to create prayer requests about this. It was really hard to get anyone to pray for me. This kind of prayer request is very usual, because most people will ask for physical healing, or for someone who is physically sick or something like that. Where as my prayer requests was more of a spiritual and emotional nature.

Do you think that we need to be a 100 percent sin free in order to get God to listen to us?
Most Christians still believe the spirit of Christ makes their flesh spiritual. And this is why they believe their sins are forgiven when they are born again up to that point, but must run to God to confess and repent their new sins every time they sin after becoming a Christian. The belief is that you will either be lost, or on your way to hell, or at the very least God will not fellowship with you, and He certainly will not answer your prayers if you are found with an unconfessed sin. Such a concept would mean everybody would be on their way to hell because there is not a person on this earth who does not have either a known or an unknown unconfessed sin. Now if this new sin just means the loss of a relationship with God, which would include unanswered prayers. Then God would not have a single person on this earth qualified to receive an answer to prayer or to be able to fellowship with Him.
 
'But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus,
Who of God is made unto us
wisdom, and righteousness,
and sanctification, and redemption:
That, according as it is written,
He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.'

(1Cor. 1:30-31)

Amen.
 
If you pray to Him He will hear you.

The reason you feel hungry, the reason you seem to be lost in darkness, the reason you cannot find meaning in life, is that you are separated from God. The Bible tells us that we have all sinned, and are therefore separated from God (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23). The void you feel in your heart is God missing from your life. We were created to have a relationship with God.
Got?

First payer would be to ask God to forgive your sins.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9
 
If you pray to Him He will hear you.
If it is repentance then yes He will hear you and give you the Holy Spirit to tell you His will.

Those who are born again of His Spirit when asking for things for yourself must only listen, not pray. At the right time He will speak to you and tell you what you must pray for and it will come to pass. I know. I spend most of my time just listening, and now I can truthfully say that since 1977 100% of my prayers are answered and I receive, sometimes immediately, what He told me to pray.
 
Most Christians still believe the spirit of Christ makes their flesh spiritual. And this is why they believe their sins are forgiven when they are born again up to that point, but must run to God to confess and repent their new sins every time they sin after becoming a Christian. The belief is that you will either be lost, or on your way to hell, or at the very least God will not fellowship with you, and He certainly will not answer your prayers if you are found with an unconfessed sin. Such a concept would mean everybody would be on their way to hell because there is not a person on this earth who does not have either a known or an unknown unconfessed sin. Now if this new sin just means the loss of a relationship with God, which would include unanswered prayers. Then God would not have a single person on this earth qualified to receive an answer to prayer or to be able to fellowship with Him.
Hi Peter! Have missed you.

My belief is different than most. Romans 7:5-6 says "For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter."

That means a born again Christian is not in the flesh. It is our nature that controls our flesh, and our spirit and soul together are born again and cannot sin. Our flesh is like a floppy dead puppet that can only do what our new nature tells it to do. Romans 8:9 "But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His." Also, 1 John 3:9 "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."

cc: @Gloria
 
Hi Peter! Have missed you.

My belief is different than most. Romans 7:5-6 says "For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter."

That means a born again Christian is not in the flesh. It is our nature that controls our flesh, and our spirit and soul together are born again and cannot sin. Our flesh is like a floppy dead puppet that can only do what our new nature tells it to do. Romans 8:9 "But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His." Also, 1 John 3:9 "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."

cc: @Gloria
"THE FIRST EPISTLE OF JOHN"
Sin And The Child Of God (3:4-9)

("The Children Of God"), we saw that the true child of God purifies himself because of the hope of seeing Jesus one day - cf. 1Jn 3:2-3

In discussing "purity", the subject of "sin" naturally arises...
Which may be why John moves right into a discussion of "Sin And The Child of God" - 1Jn 3:4-9 )
1Jn 3:4 ¶ Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
1Jn 3:5 And you know that that one was revealed in order that he might take away sins, and in him there is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Everyone who resides in him does not sin. Everyone who sins has neither seen him nor known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you: the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as that one is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. For this reason the Son of God was revealed: in order to destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Everyone who is fathered by God does not practice sin, because his seed resides in him, and he is not able to sin, because he has been fathered by God.
1Jn 3:10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are evident: everyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, namely, the one who does not love his brother.

It also fits into John's overall theme of combating the Gnostic- like influences that were teaching that sinning did not affect one's relationship with God
How shall the true child of God regard sin? Is it something to be taken lightly? Not if the apostle John has anything to say about it!
[Using verses 4-9 as our text, then, let's consider what John has to say about "Sin And The Child Of God". We begin by noticing...]

THE "DEFINITION" OF SIN (4)
AS UNDERSTOOD BY SOME...

Sin is nothing more than a violation of human relationships
Which can be easily resolved by correcting relationship problems
-- While SOME sins may be a violation of "human" relationships, the true meaning of sin goes much further than that

THE LITERAL MEANING OF THE WORD "SIN"
The Greek word for "sin" is hamartia {ham-ar'-tee'-ah}, and it literally means "to miss the mark"
E.g., as when an archer fails to hit the center of the target
So "sin" is some kind of action (or lack of it) in which one fails to meet the goal intended by God - cf. Ro 3:23

AS DEFINED BY JOHN...
Sin is "lawlessness" (NKJV), or "transgression of the law" (KJV)
The word for lawlessness (transgression) is anomia {an-om-ee' -ah}, which means "illegality, i.e. violation of law"
I.e., to break or violate a law, such as the law of God
E.g., to steal when the law says "Thou shalt not steal"
So sin occurs when you DO WHAT IS FORBIDDEN (commonly called "a sin of commission")

AS DEFINED BY JAMES...
James describes another kind of sin - cf. Jm 4:17
So sin is also committed when you FAIL TO DO WHAT IS GOOD OR COMMANDED (often called "a sin of omission")
E.g., failing to love your brother
While you may not do ill toward your brother, failure to do good is just as much a sin!

IN BOTH OF THESE DEFINITIONS OF SIN...
One has failed to meet a certain standard (they have "missed the mark")
In this case, the standard is the "law of God"
Which, when carefully noted, is designed to help us in our relationships with...
God
Other people
Even self
Every command of God, both negative and positive, affect these relationships in one way or the other
[Failure to understand the true nature of "sin" is one reason why there is so much apathy toward it today. But every time we sin, we adversely affect our relationship with either God, others, or our own selves!

Further insight into the terribleness of sin is gained by considering what John says about...]

THE "ORIGIN" OF SIN (8a)

SIN IS OF THE DEVIL!
"He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning."
This statement of John is reminiscent of one made by Jesus in Jn 8:44
From the beginning the devil has been the "father" or origin of sin ("he is a liar and the father of it")

THOSE WHO SIN ARE OF THE DEVIL!
Since he is the "father" of sin, those who practice sin are his children
"You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do" - cf. Jn 8:44a
So when we "miss the mark" by either...
Doing what is forbidden
Failing to do what is commanded ...we demonstrate the influences of the devil in our lives!
[If sin can make one to be "the children of the devil", that ought to tell us something about the terribleness of sin!

But there is something else that describes sin's terribleness, and that is seen as we consider what John says about...]

THE "DEFEAT" OF SIN (5a, 8b)
THIS WAS THE PURPOSE OF CHRIST'S COMING...
"He was manifested to take away our sins" - 1Jn 3:5a
"For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil." - 1Jn 3:8b
As John the Baptist declared: "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!" - Jn 1:29
-- To continue to walk in sin, therefore, is to undermine the purpose of our Lord's coming!

CONSIDER WHAT IT COST JESUS TO ACCOMPLISH THIS PURPOSE...
Nothing less than His own death! - cf. 1Co 15:3
Nothing less than His precious blood! - cf. Ac 20:28; 1Pe 1:18-19
-- Does not this tell us something about the terribleness of sin?
[When we properly understand what sin is, and how terrible it must be in God's sight, then for the "child of God" there can only be one goal: what John describes as...]

THE "REFRAINMENT" OF SIN (6-7, 9)

WHOEVER "ABIDES IN HIM" DOES NOT SIN... (6)
The phrase "does not sin" is present tense in the Greek, suggesting a practice of not sinning
John has already affirmed that Christians sin - cf. 1Jn 1:8,10
To say we have no sin is to lie, and to make God a liar


So John is talking about one who does not "continuously practice sin"

Such is true of those who "abide in Him"
Those who "abide in Jesus" do not continuously engage in sin
That is because they...

Let that which they have heard from the beginning abide in them (i.e., the words of Jesus) - cf. 1Jn 2:24

Strive to walk even as Jesus walked - cf. 1Jn 2:6

But the one who continuously practices sin has neither seen Jesus nor known him (despite any claims to the contrary!)

WHOEVER "HAS BEEN BORN OF GOD" DOES NOT SIN... (9)
Again, John uses the present tense when he says "does not sin"
He is not suggesting that one "born of God" never sins

But that one truly "born of God" does not continuously practice sin
And why is that? Because "His seed remains in Him"

The "seed" is that life-giving principle that makes one a child of God
Which clearly involves the Word of God - cf. Jm 1:18; 1 Pe 1:22-23
As long as one allows the "seed" (the Word of God) to remain in him, he is "born of God"
As such he does not continuously practice sin
Nor can he continuously practice sin, if the "seed" is remaining in him
Instead, he continuously practices righteousness! - 1Jn 3:7

CONCLUSION
Again, it helpful to remember that John is dealing with precursors to Gnosticism, and the idea that one can claim to be "born of God" and not be concerned about sin in their life
But when we are aware of:
The "definition" of sin
The "origin" of sin
The "defeat" of sin
The "refrainment" of sin ...our attitude toward sin will certainly be different than those John was having to combat!
What is your attitude toward sin?
Have you been born again through obedience to the Word of God (the incorruptible seed)?
Are you letting that "seed" remain in you so that you do not continuously practice sin?
How you answer can reveal whose "child" you really are!


@Studyman – is there anything you’d like to add or disagree with?

J.
 
Hi Peter! Have missed you.

My belief is different than most. Romans 7:5-6 says "For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter."

That means a born again Christian is not in the flesh. It is our nature that controls our flesh, and our spirit and soul together are born again and cannot sin. Our flesh is like a floppy dead puppet that can only do what our new nature tells it to do. Romans 8:9 "But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His." Also, 1 John 3:9 "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."

cc: @Gloria
I looked at about 43 different Bibles and they all say the same thing concerning 1 John 3:6. My favorite out of the 43 was this New Living Translation because I believe you do not know who Christ is unless you're walking in him.

New Living Translation
Anyone who continues to live in him will not sin. But anyone who keeps on sinning does not know him or understand who he is.


I list here 43 Bibles all saying the same thing. That Christians "in Christ" do not sin and if they do they don't know or understand who the resurrected Christ is. How insane can I be? Even the 2 Catholic Bibles say the same. See below...

Modern Translations

New International Version
No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

New Living Translation
Anyone who continues to live in him will not sin. But anyone who keeps on sinning does not know him or understand who he is.

English Standard Version
No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.

Berean Study Bible
No one who remains in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has seen Him or known Him.

NASB 1995
No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.

NASB 1977
No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.

Christian Standard Bible
Everyone who remains in him does not sin; everyone who sins has not seen him or known him.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Everyone who remains in Him does not sin; everyone who sins has not seen Him or known Him.

Contemporary English Version
and people who stay one in their hearts with him won't keep on sinning. If they do keep on sinning, they don't know Christ, and they have never seen him.

Good News Translation
So everyone who lives in union with Christ does not continue to sin; but whoever continues to sin has never seen him or known him.

GOD'S WORDĀ® Translation
Those who live in Christ don't go on sinning. Those who go on sinning haven't seen or known Christ.

International Standard Version
No one who remains in union with him keeps on sinning. The one who keeps on sinning hasn't seen him or known him.

NET Bible
Everyone who resides in him does not sin; everyone who sins has neither seen him nor known him.

Classic Translations

King James Bible
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

New King James Version
Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

King James 2000 Bible
Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.

New Heart English Bible
Whoever remains in him does not sin. Whoever sins hasn't seen him, neither knows him.

World English Bible
Whoever remains in him doesn't sin. Whoever sins hasn't seen him, neither knows him.

American King James Version
Whoever stays in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.

American Standard Version
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither knoweth him.

A Faithful Version
Everyone who dwells in Him does not practice sin; anyone who practices sin has not seen Him, nor has known Him.

Darby Bible Translation
Whoever abides in him, does not sin: whoever sins, has not seen him or known him.

English Revised Version
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither knoweth him.

Webster's Bible Translation
Whoever abideth in him sinneth not: whoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Early Modern

Geneva Bible of 1587
Whosoeuer abideth in him, sinneth not: whosoeuer sinneth, hath not seene him, neither hath knowen him.

Bishops' Bible of 1568
As many as byde in hym, sinne not: whosoeuer sinneth, hath not seene him, neither knowen hym.

Coverdale Bible of 1535
Who so euer abydeth in him, synneth not: who soeuer synneth, hath not sene him nether knowne him.

Tyndale Bible of 1526
As many as byde in him synne not: whosoever synneth hath not sene him nether hath knowen him.

Literal Translations

Literal Standard Version
everyone who is remaining in Him does not sin; everyone who is sinning, has not seen Him, nor known Him.

Berean Literal Bible
Anyone abiding in Him does not sin; anyone sinning has not seen Him, nor has he known Him.

Young's Literal Translation
every one who is remaining in him doth not sin; every one who is sinning, hath not seen him, nor known him.

Smith's Literal Translation
Every one remaining in him sins not: every one sinning has not seen him, nor known him.

Literal Emphasis Translation
Anyone not abiding in Him sins; anyone sinning has not seen Him nor has he known Him.

Catholic Translations

Douay-Rheims Bible
Whosoever abideth in him, sinneth not; and whosoever sinneth, hath not seen him, nor known him.

Catholic Public Domain Version
Everyone who abides in him does not sin. For whoever sins has not seen him, and has not known him.

Translations from Aramaic

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
No one who remains in him commits sin, and no one who sins has seen him, neither has he known him.

Lamsa Bible
Whoever abides in him does not sin: and whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.

NT Translations

Anderson New Testament
Whoever abides in him, sins not. Whoever sins, has neither seen him nor known him.

Godbey New Testament
No one abiding in him is sinning: every one sinning does not see him, nor know him.

Haweis New Testament
Every one who abideth in him, doth not sin; every one who sinneth hath not seen him, nor known him.

Mace New Testament
whosoever adheres to him, sinneth not: whosoever sinneth, hath not seen him, he does not know him.

Worrell New Testament
Every one that is abiding in Him sins not; whosoever sins has not seen Him nor known Him.

Worsley New Testament
Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen Him, nor known Him.



 
I looked at about 43 different Bibles and they all say the same thing concerning 1 John 3:6. My favorite out of the 43 was this New Living Translation because I believe you do not know who Christ is unless you're walking in him.

New Living Translation
Anyone who continues to live in him will not sin. But anyone who keeps on sinning does not know him or understand who he is.








Guess you and a few others have reached absolute sinless perfection.


1 John 3:6
1Jn_3:6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.

PPC: (1) The Greek perfect expresses the present and permanent result of a past action, and is often equivalent to a present. (2) The fact of the man's sinning proves that his perception and knowledge have been imperfect, if not superficial, or even imaginary;

Whosoever abideth in him -- Barnes: See 1Jo_2:6. The word here employed (μένων menoĢ„n) properly means to remain, to continue, to abide.

sinneth not -- RWP: (ouch hamartanei). Linear present (linear menoĢ„n, keeps on abiding) active indicative of hamartanoĢ„, ā€œdoes not keep on sinning.ā€

hath not seen him -- RWP: (ouch heōraken auton). Perfect active indicative of horaō. The habit of sin is proof that one has not the vision or the knowledge (egnōken, perfect active also) of Christ. He means, of course, spiritual vision and spiritual knowledge, not the literal sense of horaō in Joh_1:18; Joh_20:29.

CP: "John is not claiming that Christians do not sin, for he has already said (1:8-10) that if we claim to be without sin, we are liars. The expression ā€œwho lives in him,ā€ literally means ā€œabides, or remainsā€ in him. This statement was not intended to mean that we do not sin; it means we do not live a life of sin."

BBC: The question naturally arises, ā€œWhen does sin become habitual? How often does a person have to commit it for it to become characteristic behavior?ā€ John does not answer this. Rather he puts each believer on guard

PO&SB "The Greek means this: if we continue in sin, if we go on sinning and sinning, then we do not really know Christ."


Clement of Alexandria (c. 150–215 AD)
Clement often emphasized striving for spiritual maturity and moral perfection but did not teach absolute sinlessness. He described perfection as growth in virtue and alignment with divine will.

Quote:
"Being perfect is not perfect by itself, but perfect in relation to something else. For a man becomes perfect if he becomes worthy of God, attaining as far as possible the perfection of that virtue in activity and contemplation."
(Stromata 6.9)
This reflects a dynamic and relational view of perfection, rather than a static, sinless state.

Origen (c. 185–254 AD)
Origen spoke of perfection as a spiritual ideal achieved through knowledge of God and moral discipline. However, he acknowledged human frailty and dependence on divine grace.

Quote:
"We are not sufficient to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God. Therefore, even if we make some progress toward perfection, it is not our own doing but a gift of God’s mercy."
(Commentary on Romans 7.1)
This indicates that while Origen encouraged striving for perfection, he saw it as unattainable without God’s intervention.

Tertullian (c. 155–220 AD)
Tertullian placed great emphasis on avoiding sin, especially after baptism. He also viewed martyrdom as the ultimate act of faithfulness and perfection, though not in the sense of moral sinlessness.

Quote:
"After that, you have received the forgiveness of sins, there remains no longer room for repentance, but only for perfection."
(On Modesty 9)
Here, Tertullian exhorts Christians to strive for a holy life post-baptism but does not imply an absolute inability to sin.

Cyprian of Carthage (c. 200–258 AD)
Cyprian stressed repentance and the possibility of forgiveness after sin but acknowledged the ongoing battle against human weakness.

Quote:
"Let us believe, my beloved brethren, that we can be victorious not by our own strength but by His help. Let us cling to His grace and be made perfect through it, for even the best among us sins daily."
(Epistle 58: To Cornelius)
Cyprian acknowledged daily sins, pointing to reliance on God’s grace for sanctification.

Augustine of Hippo (354–430 AD)
Augustine was explicit in rejecting sinless perfection, particularly during his debates with Pelagius, who argued that humans could achieve sinlessness through effort.


Quote 1:
"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. This is why even the righteous man says in his prayer: 'Forgive us our debts.' This prayer is not for the unbaptized but for those reborn in Christ."
(On Nature and Grace 36)

Quote 2:
"In this life, the saints are not entirely without sin. Although they make progress, they still pray daily for forgiveness because they cannot live without sin."
(Against Two Letters of the Pelagians 4.13)

Augustine firmly held that no one attains absolute sinlessness in this life, highlighting the continual need for grace.

The Didache (c. 50–120 AD)
The Didache, an early Christian manual for teaching, stresses living a righteous life but acknowledges human imperfection and the need for repentance.

Quote:
"Confess your sins in church and do not go to your prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of life."
(Didache 4.14)
The directive to confess sins assumes that Christians will fall short and require forgiveness.

The Shepherd of Hermas (c. 90–150 AD)
The Shepherd of Hermas, a popular early Christian text, emphasized repentance and the pursuit of righteousness but acknowledged the reality of sin.

Quote:
"If you do not guard yourself against anger, you and your house will lose all hope of salvation. But turn to the Lord, and your sins will be forgiven, for none are without fault."
(The Shepherd 2:6)
This shows that sin is part of the human condition, even for believers, but repentance restores fellowship with God.

Summary of ECF Teachings:
Striving for Holiness: The ECFs encouraged believers to pursue moral and spiritual growth, often describing this as ā€œperfectionā€ in the sense of maturity.

Reality of Sin:
Most fathers acknowledged that sin remains a struggle for Christians, though willful sin should be avoided.


Role of Grace: They emphasized that human efforts alone are insufficient for achieving holiness; reliance on God’s grace is essential.

The ECFs’ writings reflect a balance between exhorting believers to live righteously and recognizing their ongoing need for forgiveness and divine aid.

J.
 
Guess you and a few others have reached absolute sinless perfection.


1 John 3:6
1Jn_3:6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.

PPC: (1) The Greek perfect expresses the present and permanent result of a past action, and is often equivalent to a present. (2) The fact of the man's sinning proves that his perception and knowledge have been imperfect, if not superficial, or even imaginary;

Whosoever abideth in him -- Barnes: See 1Jo_2:6. The word here employed (μένων menoĢ„n) properly means to remain, to continue, to abide.

sinneth not -- RWP: (ouch hamartanei). Linear present (linear menoĢ„n, keeps on abiding) active indicative of hamartanoĢ„, ā€œdoes not keep on sinning.ā€

hath not seen him -- RWP: (ouch heōraken auton). Perfect active indicative of horaō. The habit of sin is proof that one has not the vision or the knowledge (egnōken, perfect active also) of Christ. He means, of course, spiritual vision and spiritual knowledge, not the literal sense of horaō in Joh_1:18; Joh_20:29.

CP: "John is not claiming that Christians do not sin, for he has already said (1:8-10) that if we claim to be without sin, we are liars. The expression ā€œwho lives in him,ā€ literally means ā€œabides, or remainsā€ in him. This statement was not intended to mean that we do not sin; it means we do not live a life of sin."

BBC: The question naturally arises, ā€œWhen does sin become habitual? How often does a person have to commit it for it to become characteristic behavior?ā€ John does not answer this. Rather he puts each believer on guard

PO&SB "The Greek means this: if we continue in sin, if we go on sinning and sinning, then we do not really know Christ."


Clement of Alexandria (c. 150–215 AD)
Clement often emphasized striving for spiritual maturity and moral perfection but did not teach absolute sinlessness. He described perfection as growth in virtue and alignment with divine will.

Quote:
"Being perfect is not perfect by itself, but perfect in relation to something else. For a man becomes perfect if he becomes worthy of God, attaining as far as possible the perfection of that virtue in activity and contemplation."
(Stromata 6.9)
This reflects a dynamic and relational view of perfection, rather than a static, sinless state.

Origen (c. 185–254 AD)
Origen spoke of perfection as a spiritual ideal achieved through knowledge of God and moral discipline. However, he acknowledged human frailty and dependence on divine grace.

Quote:
"We are not sufficient to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God. Therefore, even if we make some progress toward perfection, it is not our own doing but a gift of God’s mercy."
(Commentary on Romans 7.1)
This indicates that while Origen encouraged striving for perfection, he saw it as unattainable without God’s intervention.

Tertullian (c. 155–220 AD)
Tertullian placed great emphasis on avoiding sin, especially after baptism. He also viewed martyrdom as the ultimate act of faithfulness and perfection, though not in the sense of moral sinlessness.

Quote:
"After that, you have received the forgiveness of sins, there remains no longer room for repentance, but only for perfection."
(On Modesty 9)
Here, Tertullian exhorts Christians to strive for a holy life post-baptism but does not imply an absolute inability to sin.

Cyprian of Carthage (c. 200–258 AD)
Cyprian stressed repentance and the possibility of forgiveness after sin but acknowledged the ongoing battle against human weakness.

Quote:
"Let us believe, my beloved brethren, that we can be victorious not by our own strength but by His help. Let us cling to His grace and be made perfect through it, for even the best among us sins daily."
(Epistle 58: To Cornelius)
Cyprian acknowledged daily sins, pointing to reliance on God’s grace for sanctification.

Augustine of Hippo (354–430 AD)
Augustine was explicit in rejecting sinless perfection, particularly during his debates with Pelagius, who argued that humans could achieve sinlessness through effort.


Quote 1:
"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. This is why even the righteous man says in his prayer: 'Forgive us our debts.' This prayer is not for the unbaptized but for those reborn in Christ."
(On Nature and Grace 36)

Quote 2:
"In this life, the saints are not entirely without sin. Although they make progress, they still pray daily for forgiveness because they cannot live without sin."
(Against Two Letters of the Pelagians 4.13)

Augustine firmly held that no one attains absolute sinlessness in this life, highlighting the continual need for grace.

The Didache (c. 50–120 AD)
The Didache, an early Christian manual for teaching, stresses living a righteous life but acknowledges human imperfection and the need for repentance.

Quote:
"Confess your sins in church and do not go to your prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of life."
(Didache 4.14)
The directive to confess sins assumes that Christians will fall short and require forgiveness.

The Shepherd of Hermas (c. 90–150 AD)
The Shepherd of Hermas, a popular early Christian text, emphasized repentance and the pursuit of righteousness but acknowledged the reality of sin.

Quote:
"If you do not guard yourself against anger, you and your house will lose all hope of salvation. But turn to the Lord, and your sins will be forgiven, for none are without fault."
(The Shepherd 2:6)
This shows that sin is part of the human condition, even for believers, but repentance restores fellowship with God.

Summary of ECF Teachings:
Striving for Holiness: The ECFs encouraged believers to pursue moral and spiritual growth, often describing this as ā€œperfectionā€ in the sense of maturity.

Reality of Sin:
Most fathers acknowledged that sin remains a struggle for Christians, though willful sin should be avoided.


Role of Grace: They emphasized that human efforts alone are insufficient for achieving holiness; reliance on God’s grace is essential.

The ECFs’ writings reflect a balance between exhorting believers to live righteously and recognizing their ongoing need for forgiveness and divine aid.

J.
Hi @Complete-miss you.

Johann.
 
Hi @Complete-miss you.

Johann.
Thank you my friend, and brother-in-Christ. I came looking for your entries, found them and was blessed. So thank you. There is snow falling thickly outside my window this morning in Wales, and I am praising God. So much to be thankful for.

As the recipient of every blessing that is spiritual in Christ Jesus
Our Saviour, Lord and Head.
I rejoice with you.
Chris
 
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