Do you love the truth?

[Dizerner]

D,,,,what is it about Jesus you don't like?

The fact that he tortures people for all eternity for just one sin of being less than absolutely perfect.

The fact that he turned over millions and millions of people to child abuse, tumors, ebola, the sin nature constantly creating wars and slaughtering millions upon millions in genocides, endless pain and suffering in humanity, the denial of the Gospel to millions and even billions of people who never got to hear the good news, all because one person decided to just be flippant one day.

How do you love a person you don't like?

Love is a choice, not a feeling, an act of obedience and commitment.

Also, love is a gift of grace, and a regeneration of the heart—a new creation, something we cannot do on our own.

By the grace of God I can love the holiness of God, and I do, but my soulish nature just never will completely in this life.

I've never heard this before.

Well, I really don't mean to be rude, but your walk with God must be very shallow if this is true.

Also your image of yourself could not be very deep or honest.

But God is merciful, and a lot of his "kids" are just there.

 

[Dizerner]

It’s called the righteousness according to faith.

That's the OPPOSITE of self-righteousness.

Just for the record.

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

The fact that he tortures people for all eternity for just one sin of being less than absolutely perfect.

The fact that he turned over millions and millions of people to child abuse, tumors, ebola, the sin nature constantly creating wars and slaughtering millions upon millions in genocides, endless pain and suffering in humanity, the denial of the Gospel to millions and even billions of people who never got to hear the good news, all because one person decided to just be flippant one day.



Love is a choice, not a feeling, an act of obedience and commitment.

Also, love is a gift of grace, and a regeneration of the heart—a new creation, something we cannot do on our own.

By the grace of God I can love the holiness of God, and I do, but my soulish nature just never will completely in this life.



Well, I really don't mean to be rude, but your walk with God must be very shallow if this is true.

Also your image of yourself could not be very deep or honest.

But God is merciful, and a lot of his "kids" are just there.

Man and woman did exactly what GOD said not to do . They ate of the tree
The fault is on man . And all have sinned . Blaming GOD only stokes fire to the torment one shall
recieve for denying HIS CHRIST .
I bet if you were drowning and sinking in quick sand and i showed up with a rope
and said HEY you have to GRAB ahold of this so i can pull you out
YOU WOULD not sit there and gripe at me about WHY YOU HAVE TO GRAB hold of that rope .
YET MANY rather than taking the free gift of GOD , CHRIST JESUS , would rather drown in their sins .
THE FAULT lies completely on man . THE SAVING , THAT COMES FROM GOD FROM CHRIST .
You forget something . GOD IS LONGSUFFERING .
so while it is true man does much much evil in this world and wicked things are done .
THE LONGSUFFERING OF GOD is due to HE desires NOT the death of the wicked
but rather they repent , COME TO CHRIST .
ETERNAL DAMNATION IS REAL . ETERNAL LIFE IS REAL . people better
save themselves from this untoward generation by coming to CHRIST FAST .
Rather than trying to air condition damnation
LETS RATHER POINT TO THE DIRE NEED TO BELIEVE ON CHRIST . Cause sheep WONT be damned .

 

[Dizerner]

I bet if you were drowning and sinking in quick sand and i showed up with a rope
and said HEY you have to GRAB ahold of this so i can pull you out
YOU WOULD not sit there and gripe at me about WHY YOU HAVE TO GRAB hold of that rope .

If the person had a hundred ropes and refused to save anyone else, I might consider they are not really a good person to only offer help to some and not others. Also, if the person was the one who made the quicksand to begin with, and set it up in such a way that he knew I would fall without my choice, then he would be saving me from his own disaster he created in a sense. I may very well object to being saved by such a person under conditions that seem unfair to me. Now I could be selfish and not care about anyone else, and that is one way to resolve the problem, but that's still not going to make me like a person who creates quicksand just to let people drown in it. Ideally—the reason we should be saved is for God's sake and not our own sake. Fundamentally, you are going to have to get to a place where you realize you cannot justify God by your own standard in every case, and you must put God above what you personally think is right, as an act of worship and submission—and that is not a thing any human being does naturally on their own.

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

If the person had a hundred ropes and refused to save anyone else, I might consider they are not really a good person to only offer help to some and not others. Also, if the person was the one who made the quicksand to begin with, and set it up in such a way that he knew I would fall without my choice, then he would be saving me from his own disaster he created in a sense. I may very well object to being saved by such a person under conditions that seem unfair to me. Now I could be selfish and not care about anyone else, and that is one way to resolve the problem, but that's still not going to make me like a person who creates quicksand just to let people drown in it. Ideally—the reason we should be saved is for God's sake and not our own sake. Fundamentally, you are going to have to get to a place where you realize you cannot justify God by your own standard in every case, and you must put God above what you personally think is right, as an act of worship and submission—and that not a thing any human being does naturally on their own.

that is what happens when men sit under and or sat under calvin or his pre destination .
But many forget to read the end
of revelation
WHO SO EVER WILL , LET HIM COME and drink of the water of life freely .
THE POT cant blame GOD .
The reason men reject CHRIST
the reason many create another version or image of Christ
THEY LOVE THEIR SIN . MEN loved the darkness and wont come to the LIGHT
lest their evil deeds be exposed .
MANY have sat under men in churches and they have been taught by carnal minds of men
that often twisted things and tried to put GOD into a carnal intellectual box that men can then
reason as they please unto what version of HIM they desire to come to and to sit under .
THAT HAS BEEN the problem .
ME , i keep it real simple . WHO so ever beleives WILL BE SAVED , who so ever rejects shall be damned .
Thus JESUS is gonna be preached on my watch . The things many often sit under
have tried to grasp hold onto things far too high for their carnal minds and thus them minds
TWIST IT ALL unto their own destruction .
BUT ME , by grace I DO KNOW WHO SAVES and I DO KNOW ONE MUST BELIEVE
so guess what i am and who i am gonna preach .
JESUS CHRIST and HIM CRUCIFIED . cause i KNOW HE SAVES . THAT I DO KNOW
and i know ITS SUPER DEADLY to reject HIM and damnation awaits all who did . PRETTY SIMPLE .

 

[civic]

The fact that he tortures people for all eternity for just one sin of being less than absolutely perfect.

The fact that he turned over millions and millions of people to child abuse, tumors, ebola, the sin nature constantly creating wars and slaughtering millions upon millions in genocides, endless pain and suffering in humanity, the denial of the Gospel to millions and even billions of people who never got to hear the good news, all because one person decided to just be flippant one day.



Love is a choice, not a feeling, an act of obedience and commitment.

Also, love is a gift of grace, and a regeneration of the heart—a new creation, something we cannot do on our own.

By the grace of God I can love the holiness of God, and I do, but my soulish nature just never will completely in this life.



Well, I really don't mean to be rude, but your walk with God must be very shallow if this is true.

Also your image of yourself could not be very deep or honest.

But God is merciful, and a lot of his "kids" are just there.

A false view of Jesus blaming Him who is holy for sin

 

[101G]

Jesus is the Son.

The Father is God.

The Holy Spirit is God.


These three are one.


For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 1 John 5:7

GINOLJC, to all,
first thanks for the reply, second, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are titles of one Person. as the scripture states "THESE" three, and NOT "THEY" are three. they would indicate PERSONS, the term " THESE" indicate titles.... and titles are not persons.

got it now?

 

[Marvelloustime]

that is what happens when men sit under and or sat under calvin or his pre destination .
But many forget to read the end
of revelation
WHO SO EVER WILL , LET HIM COME and drink of the water of life freely .
THE POT cant blame GOD .
The reason men reject CHRIST
the reason many create another version or image of Christ
THEY LOVE THEIR SIN . MEN loved the darkness and wont come to the LIGHT
lest their evil deeds be exposed .
MANY have sat under men in churches and they have been taught by carnal minds of men
that often twisted things and tried to put GOD into a carnal intellectual box that men can then
reason as they please unto what version of HIM they desire to come to and to sit under .
THAT HAS BEEN the problem .
ME , i keep it real simple . WHO so ever beleives WILL BE SAVED , who so ever rejects shall be damned .
Thus JESUS is gonna be preached on my watch . The things many often sit under
have tried to grasp hold onto things far too high for their carnal minds and thus them minds
TWIST IT ALL unto their own destruction .
BUT ME , by grace I DO KNOW WHO SAVES and I DO KNOW ONE MUST BELIEVE
so guess what i am and who i am gonna preach .
JESUS CHRIST and HIM CRUCIFIED . cause i KNOW HE SAVES . THAT I DO KNOW
and i know ITS SUPER DEADLY to reject HIM and damnation awaits all who did . PRETTY SIMPLE .

@TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY

 

[Marvelloustime]

Man and woman did exactly what GOD said not to do . They ate of the tree
The fault is on man . And all have sinned . Blaming GOD only stokes fire to the torment one shall
recieve for denying HIS CHRIST .
I bet if you were drowning and sinking in quick sand and i showed up with a rope
and said HEY you have to GRAB ahold of this so i can pull you out
YOU WOULD not sit there and gripe at me about WHY YOU HAVE TO GRAB hold of that rope .
YET MANY rather than taking the free gift of GOD , CHRIST JESUS , would rather drown in their sins .
THE FAULT lies completely on man . THE SAVING , THAT COMES FROM GOD FROM CHRIST .
You forget something . GOD IS LONGSUFFERING .
so while it is true man does much much evil in this world and wicked things are done .
THE LONGSUFFERING OF GOD is due to HE desires NOT the death of the wicked
but rather they repent , COME TO CHRIST .
ETERNAL DAMNATION IS REAL . ETERNAL LIFE IS REAL . people better
save themselves from this untoward generation by coming to CHRIST FAST .
Rather than trying to air condition damnation
LETS RATHER POINT TO THE DIRE NEED TO BELIEVE ON CHRIST . Cause sheep WONT be damned .

@TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY

 

[JLB]

GINOLJC, to all,
first thanks for the reply, second, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are titles of one Person. as the scripture states "THESE" three, and NOT "THEY" are three. they would indicate PERSONS, the term " THESE" indicate titles.... and titles are not persons.

got it now?

I got it that you believe in the doctrine of oneness; which is also called modalism.


The scripture says these three are one.

Scripture does not say this one is three.

 

[101G]

I got it that you believe in the doctrine of oneness; which is also called modalism.

next
101G

 

[GodsGrace]

The fact that he tortures people for all eternity for just one sin of being less than absolutely perfect.

D....Where does it state in scriptue that we have to be perfect?

Do we go from one extreme to the other in our Christian faith?

Some tell me NOTHING needs to be done but believe in Jesus and heaven is waiting for them.
NOT what Jesus taught.

You're saying we must be perfect or heaven is not waiting.
NOT what Jesus taught.

Both are in correct.
Could you post some verses where Jesus teaches that we must be perfect?

The fact that he turned over millions and millions of people to child abuse, tumors, ebola, the sin nature constantly creating wars and slaughtering millions upon millions in genocides, endless pain and suffering in humanity, the denial of the Gospel to millions and even billions of people who never got to hear the good news, all because one person decided to just be flippant one day.

God does not cause child abuse.
Evil that men do causes child abuse.
They have the choice to do it or not,,,they choose to do it.

Tumors, ebola, hurricanes and the like.
Even nature is enbued with the sin nature.
Even nature is awaiting its escape from it.

Romans 8:19-22
19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.
20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope
21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together * until now.


As to the sin nature.....I'm sure you know the story of Adam. It explains very well why man sins.
He ate of the tree of the knowledge of evil and lost his innocense and his perfect relationship with God.
He prefered to obey satan and honor satan instead of his creator.
God did not put the sin nature in us....
we acquired it of our own accord.


As to those who have never heard the gospel....
They may not have HEARD the gospel.....
but God has always revealed Himself to mankind and man has
always had the opportunity to reply YES to God.
From the very beginning of time....


Romans 1:18.-20
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.


At the judgment man will have no excuse because God has ALWAYS made Himself be known to mankind.

Love is a choice, not a feeling, an act of obedience and commitment.

Also, love is a gift of grace, and a regeneration of the heart—a new creation, something we cannot do on our own.

By the grace of God I can love the holiness of God, and I do, but my soulish nature just never will completely in this life.

Sanctification is a life-long process.
Do you really think you could be fully sanctified now?
I studied for years with a small group lead by a monk....
He knew he sinned....
We can only do our best...God knows if we are....
He cannot be mocked.
But there is also no reason to fear because God does love us with the type of love you describe above.
Certainly not because we deserve it.

Well, I really don't mean to be rude, but your walk with God must be very shallow if this is true.

I'll make believe you didn't say this.
Why get personal?
Do you know me?
How do You know what my walk with God is like??

Stick to scripture and biblical topics please.

 

[praise_yeshua]

D....Where does it state in scriptue that we have to be perfect?

Do we go from one extreme to the other in our Christian faith?

Some tell me NOTHING needs to be done but believe in Jesus and heaven is waiting for them.
NOT what Jesus taught.

You're saying we must be perfect or heaven is not waiting.
NOT what Jesus taught.

Both are in correct.
Could you post some verses where Jesus teaches that we must be perfect?


God does not cause child abuse.
Evil that men do causes child abuse.
They have the choice to do it or not,,,they choose to do it.

Tumors, ebola, hurricanes and the like.
Even nature is enbued with the sin nature.
Even nature is awaiting its escape from it.

Romans 8:19-22
19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.
20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope
21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together * until now.


As to the sin nature.....I'm sure you know the story of Adam. It explains very well why man sins.
He ate of the tree of the knowledge of evil and lost his innocense and his perfect relationship with God.
He prefered to obey satan and honor satan instead of his creator.
God did not put the sin nature in us....
we acquired it of our own accord.


As to those who have never heard the gospel....
They may not have HEARD the gospel.....
but God has always revealed Himself to mankind and man has
always had the opportunity to reply YES to God.
From the very beginning of time....


Romans 1:18.-20
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.


At the judgment man will have no excuse because God has ALWAYS made Himself be known to mankind.



Sanctification is a life-long process.
Do you really think you could be fully sanctified now?
I studied for years with a small group lead by a monk....
He knew he sinned....
We can only do our best...God knows if we are....
He cannot be mocked.
But there is also no reason to fear because God does love us with the type of love you describe above.
Certainly not because we deserve it.

I'll make believe you didn't say this.
Why get personal?
Do you know me?
How do You know what my walk with God is like??

Stick to scripture and biblical topics please.

God has promised perfection. Adam was never perfect. He was incomplete like the rest of us.

Not excusing sin. Actually.... the demands of a meaningful relationship with God requires agreement. Sin is anything not of faith. The lack of faith is what ultimately caused Eve and Adam to sin.

One great verse exclusive to Mark.....

Mar 9:24 Immediately the father of the child cried out and said, “I believe; help my unbelief!”

 

[GodsGrace]

God has promised perfection. Adam was never perfect. He was incomplete like the rest of us.

Not excusing sin. Actually.... the demands of a meaningful relationship with God requires agreement. Sin is anything not of faith. The lack of faith is what ultimately caused Eve and Adam to sin.

One great verse exclusive to Mark.....

Mar 9:24 Immediately the father of the child cried out and said, “I believe; help my unbelief!”

So are you saying that you are perfect and sinless?

 

[praise_yeshua]

So are you saying that you are perfect and sinless?

Nope. I die daily. I believe most people don't understand what Paul actually was saying there....

 

[GodsGrace]

Nope. I die daily. I believe most people don't understand what Paul actually was saying there....

Explain....
I think most Christians understand what you're saying...

 

[praise_yeshua]

Explain....
I think most Christians understand what you're saying...

1Co 15:30 Why are we in danger every hour?
1Co 15:31 I protest, brothers, by my pride in you, which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die every day!
1Co 15:32 What do I gain if, humanly speaking, I fought with beasts at Ephesus? If the dead are not raised, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.”

These verses have been debated for as long as they've been published to others. Paul's doctrine was well know to those at Corinth. His letters to Corinth are often misunderstood because Paul had a history with the people to which he was writing.

Paul wasn't writing to people that he didn't know him in similarity to the situation when he wrote the book/letter of Romans. As such, there is a "broken/skipping" nature to what Paul wrote here in what we consider 1 Cor 15. They knew him well enough to clearly understand his writings. We are outsiders "looking in" to this conversation.

Discussing his letter to Corinth is like overhearing a conversation between friends or peers.....

In verse 31 (as we distinguish it) Paul is appealing not to the immediate context of the words written shortly before this. He was appealing to

1Co 15:21 For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.

He is appealing to this "death" wrought in humanity through Adam. A unknown and unexpected finality brought to humanity through the faithlessness of Adam to trust/believe God. The finality of the struggle to bring about within humanity the willingness of mind to just trust God.

We have an enemy before us. An enemy that is unknown to us. The last enemy to our perfection is precluded by our death.

1Co 15:26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

The phrase "I die daily" is an appeal to the unknown nature of our end. Many many people are taken from this life because of the sins of others. Which is why I personally try to ask God to protect my own every day of my life.

The results of sin is not just a faithlessness from long ago in Adam. It is the present sin of others and our own sin. It is an inevitable uncertainty that requires our preparedness for death every moment of our lives.

Thusly..... "I die daily". Whether our own sin or the sins of others within our immediate lives, there is nothing more inevitable than the realty of our flesh ruling our members. Saved or not. Redeemed or not. Born from above or not.

Such is NOT perfection. It was never designed to be perfection. It is not the absence of sin whether personal sin or not. It is the circumstances of death all around us.

 

[GodsGrace]

1Co 15:30 Why are we in danger every hour?
1Co 15:31 I protest, brothers, by my pride in you, which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die every day!
1Co 15:32 What do I gain if, humanly speaking, I fought with beasts at Ephesus? If the dead are not raised, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.”

These verses have been debated for as long as they've been published to others. Paul's doctrine was well know to those at Corinth. His letters to Corinth are often misunderstood because Paul had a history with the people to which he was writing.

Wow. Someone that knows about hermeneutics!!
I make no claim to know hermeneutics, BTW.
But, yes, we must take into account what Paul is saying AND TO WHO and under what pretext, and how it was understood at the time...
this is also why there's so much misunderstanding about Romans 9, which has been hijacked by the Reformed/Calvinist but which means nothing of what they claim.

How do you believe Paul's letters were misunderstood by the Corinthians?

Here's my understanding of
1 Co 15:30-32 NASB
30 Why are we also in danger every hour?
31 I affirm, brethren, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily *.
32 If from human motives I fought with wild beasts at Ephesus, what does it profit me? If the dead are not raised, LET US EAT AND DRINK, FOR TOMORROW WE DIE.
CEB
30 And what about us? Why are we in danger all day every day?
31 Brothers and sisters, I swear by the pride I have in you in Christ Jesus our Lord, I'm facing death every day.
32 From a human point of view, what good does it do me if I fought wild animals in Ephesus? If the dead aren't raised, let's eat and drink because tomorrow we'll die.

Isn't Paul just arguing for the resurrection?
Apparently, the Corinthians didn't believe in the resurrection, or some were
trying to convince them that the resurrection isn't real.

Wasn't Paul telling them that he believed it so much that he risked his life every day...and literally.
Wasn't he just telling them that if there's no resurrection then there is no hope....
they/we might as well eat, drink and be merry, just as atheists believe, because this would be what to do if there is no resurrection.

Do you see more in these verses?

Paul wasn't writing to people that he didn't know him in similarity to the situation when he wrote the book/letter of Romans. As such, there is a "broken/skipping" nature to what Paul wrote here in what we consider 1 Cor 15. They knew him well enough to clearly understand his writings. We are outsiders "looking in" to this conversation.

Discussing his letter to Corinth is like overhearing a conversation between friends or peers.....

In verse 31 (as we distinguish it) Paul is appealing not to the immediate context of the words written shortly before this. He was appealing to

1Co 15:21 For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.

Agreed.

He is appealing to this "death" wrought in humanity through Adam. A unknown and unexpected finality brought to humanity through the faithlessness of Adam to trust/believe God. The finality of the struggle to bring about within humanity the willingness of mind to just trust God.

Agreed.

We have an enemy before us. An enemy that is unknown to us. The last enemy to our perfection is precluded by our death.

1Co 15:26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

You might be getting more out of this verse than I am.
To me it just means that Jesus' resurrection proves that death is destroyed...
we who are IN CHRIST will be made alive in Him after death.

The phrase "I die daily" is an appeal to the unknown nature of our end. Many many people are taken from this life because of the sins of others. Which is why I personally try to ask God to protect my own every day of my life.

You ask God to protect your life?
But we all will die.
Death is in the world...
it no longer has anything to do with our sinning or not sinning.
We all will die.

The results of sin is not just a faithlessness from long ago in Adam. It is the present sin of others and our own sin. It is an inevitable uncertainty that requires our preparedness for death every moment of our lives.

I agree, but the way you say it sounds very hopeless.
We can NEVER be fully ready for death every moment of the day.
At some certain point we have to trust in our Lord and in His mercy at judgment time.

Thusly..... "I die daily". Whether our own sin or the sins of others within our immediate lives, there is nothing more inevitable than the realty of our flesh ruling our members. Saved or not. Redeemed or not. Born from above or not.

I don't care for you term...."our flesh RULING our members"....

Our flesh should not be ruling over our members.
Ruling and committing a sin are totally different.
We are told to walk in the spirit and not in the flesh.
Ruled by the flesh and walking in the flesh
is different
than
ruled by our spirit and walking in the spirit
and falling/failing.

Such is NOT perfection. It was never designed to be perfection. It is not the absence of sin whether personal sin or not. It is the circumstances of death all around us.

Not sure what you mean by "never designed to be perfection".
Adam was desingned to be perfect, but he failed....just as we all do.

Are you saying God designed us with a flaw?