Do Catholics Pray to Mary?

GodsGrace said:
Are YOU also a Jehovah Witness?
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This is what i say to jw/rcc Edit by Admin = Hell No

GodsGrace said:
You believe Jesus is the SON of God...
Click to expand...
Absolutely

GodsGrace said:
but not God?
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John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 8:16 - And yet if I do judge, My judgment is true; for I am not alone, but I am with the Father who sent Me.
John 10:30 - I and My Father are one.”

When we want to insist that Mary is not the mother of God...
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Mary was created by God
FACT/LOGIC/TRUTH = Mary cannot be the mother of God

How is it that you are unable to understand this?
This is why: When we insist Mary is the mother of God it "brings us to incorrect theological conclusions."

Does the bible have to state everything perfectly as you understand it before you accept it?
Click to expand...
The Bible states God's words = Truth that can save your soul.
This is why God NEVER states: Mary is the mother of God
TRUTH 101 = God created Mary
TRUTH 102 = Believe the Truth and the Truth will set you FREE
TRUTH 103 = Faith in the words of God precedes understanding

How many natures did Jesus have?
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The Bible declares the Word became flesh= Gospel of John chapter 1, Hebrews 10:5 , Philippians 2:5-11

The Bible declares that God created man with 3 natures - 1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

How many persons was He?
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Not 'was' but 'is'.
HE is the same person HE always was = John 1:1 and John 17:4-5 , Revelation 1:8
Know your ABC's

A.) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

B.) I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do.
And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

C.) “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord,
“who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
 
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synergy said:
I used logic that you found no fault in. That's all I needed to know.
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You used unbiblical faulty logic based on religious presumptions.

If you allow the Holy Spirit to teach you, HE will.
But you, like everyone else, must submit to God and believe His words and NEVER add to them or take away.

Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.
Proverbs 30:5-6
 
DavidTree said:
Mary was created by God
FACT/LOGIC/TRUTH = Mary cannot be the mother of God

How is it that you are unable to understand this?
This is why: When we insist Mary is the mother of God it "brings us to incorrect theological conclusions."
Click to expand...


Question: Is Mary the mother of God (Theotokos)?

Answer: The phrase mother of God traces back to the third century and continues to be used in some liturgical churches, including the Roman Catholic Church. One of the topics at the Council of Ephesus in AD 431 was the use of the Greek term Theotókos (literally, “God-bearer” or “the one who gives birth to God”) in reference to Mary. That council’s use of Theotokos was meant to counter the heresy of Nestorianism, which cleaved the nature and person of Christ in two: Christ’s human and divine natures were completely divergent and unconnected. According to Nestorius, Mary gave birth to Christ but not to God; Mary was the mother of His humanity, which was totally distinct from His divinity—Jesus was two persons sharing one body, essentially. The Council of Ephesus affirmed the full deity of Christ and unity of His person by saying that Mary did indeed bear God in her womb. Mary is the “mother of God” in the sense that, since Jesus is God and Mary is the mother of Jesus, she is the mother of God. The Word became flesh (John 1:14), and Mary mothered Him.

We should distinguish the term Theotokos from mother of God, because there is a subtle yet important difference. The term mother of God could be taken wrongly as implying that Mary was the source or originator of God, similar to how Juno was the mother of Vulcan in Roman mythology. Of course, Christianity teaches that God is eternal and that Jesus Christ has a pre-existent, divine nature. The idea that Mary is the mother of God in the sense that she was the source of God or somehow predated God or is herself part of the Godhead is patently unbiblical.

The term Theotokos, on the other hand, is more specific and less open to being misconstrued. Theotokos simply implies that Mary carried God in her womb and gave birth to Him. Mary was the human agent through whom the eternal Son of God took on a human body and a human nature and entered the world. The term Theotokos was a succinct expression of the biblical teaching of the Incarnation, and that is how the Council of Ephesus used the word. Mary is the “God-bearer” in that within her body the divine person of God the Son took on human nature in addition to His pre-existing divine nature. Since Jesus is fully God and fully man, it is correct to say that Mary “bore” God.

Even though the term Theotokos was originally used to help explain the Incarnation, many people today use the term, or the related mother of God, to communicate something different. Through the years, many legends accumulated around the person of Mary, and she became an object of worship in her own right. About 350 years after the Council of Ephesus used the term Theotokos in reference to Mary, the Second Council of Nicaea declared, “We honor and salute and reverently venerate … the image of … our spotless Lady the all-holy mother of God.” This shows the trend within the Roman Church to move from a focus on the Incarnation of God to a veneration of the “Mother of God,” even to the point of honoring her images and praying to her as the “Queen of Heaven,” “Benefactress,” and “Mediatrix.” The necessity of such veneration is not implied by the term Theotokos, but some people wrongly infer it.

Roman Catholic leaders teach their followers to go to Mary to find help in their time of need: “From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of ‘Mother of God,’ to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, Part 1, Section 2, Chapter 3, Article 9, Paragraph 6, 971). The Eastern churches still use the term Theotokos, and they sing hymns called theotokia to Mary. This portion of a theotokion is from the liturgy of the Coptic Orthodox Church: “You are the pride of virgins, O Mary the Theotokos. / You are the soul’s city, where the Most High lived, who sits upon the throne, of the Cherubim.… / O Virgin Mary, the holy Mother of God, the trusted advocate, of the human race. / Intercede on our behalf, before Christ whom you have born, that He may grant unto us, the forgiveness of our sins” (from The Friday Theotokia—Watos). These views of Mary represent a theological shift away from Christ as our sole Redeemer and Intercessor (1 Timothy 2:5) and an overemphasis on Mary as the “Mother of God.”

FROM THE HEART of a LESSER WOMAN
 
@GodsGrace
GodsGrace said:
Are you a JW?
They also believe Jesus is God's Son
But not God.
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Fran, are you not consider carefully what I have posted? Obviously you are not. I said:
Red Baker said:
The Mystery of godliness is God was manifest in the flesh in the person of His Son, Jesus of Narareth who is the express image of God. The Word which was God (without any qualifications) joined Himself to the tabernacle of his Son and lived in this world for around thirty three plus years. Thus, Jesus was a complex person...FULLY God, and FULLY man, and these two natures never interacted with each others, without controversy a great mystery, yet revealed to us from the scriptures.
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Btw, the JW's believe that Jesus a son of God~if they truly believed that Jesus was THE Son of God, by conception, then they would have to believe that he is equal to God even the Jews understood this truth.

John 10:32​

“Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.”

Never seen a JW that was a Calvinist, or even close to being one, they believe much like you on the doctrine of salvation. They are about as confused as you are. The good thing for you is that you do not reject Jesus' deity as they do. They are not children of God.
 
JLB said:
No. Absolutely not.

Mary gave birth to the flesh and blood Man Jesus Christ.

Mary did not give birth to God.

God became flesh. He was already God.


To say that Mary is the mother of God, insinuates that God had a beginning.
Click to expand...
We should distinguish the term Theotokos from mother of God, because there is a subtle yet important difference. The term mother of God could be taken wrongly as implying that Mary was the source or originator of God, similar to how Juno was the mother of Vulcan in Roman mythology. Of course, Christianity teaches that God is eternal and that Jesus Christ has a pre-existent, divine nature. The idea that Mary is the mother of God in the sense that she was the source of God or somehow predated God or is herself part of the Godhead is patently unbiblical.
Click to expand...

from post #287
 
Early Devotion to Mary
The New Testament and the writings of the early church fathers provide a history of the practice of showing devotion to Mary. This devotion seems to find its roots in the New Testament, although the New Testament passages do not necessarily imply devotion:

• The angel Gabriel refers to Mary as “full of grace” (κεχαριτωμένη, kecharitōmenē) and declares that the Lord is with her (Luke 1:28).
• Elizabeth calls Mary “Mother of my Lord!” (Luke 1:43).
• The Gospel of John consistently identifies Mary as “mother of Jesus” (e.g., John 2:3).
• Ignatius of Antioch declares, “Our God, Jesus the Christ, was conceived by Mary by the dispensation of God” (Ignatius, To the Ephesians 18).

As the early church reflected on Jesus’ identity as the second person of the triune God, some came to identify His mother as “God-bearer” (Θεοτόκος, Theotokos) or “mother of God” (Μήτηρ του Θεού, Mētēr tou Theou). The Council of Ephesus affirmed these titles in AD 431. Although some heretical sects, such as the Collyridians, worshiped Mary as a goddess, Christians honored Mary because of her relationship to Jesus (Bradshaw and Johnson, Origins of Feasts, 196–214). Athanasius declared that it was necessary to keep a “commemoration” (Μνήμη, Mnēmē) of Mary in order to remember her faithfulness and relationship to Jesus (Athanasius, Letter to Epictetus 4; Letter to Maximus the Philosopher 3).


“Assumption of the Virgin,” in The Lexham Bible Dictionary
 
John Paul said:
Early Devotion to Mary
The New Testament and the writings of the early church fathers provide a history of the practice of showing devotion to Mary. This devotion seems to find its roots in the New Testament, although the New Testament passages do not necessarily imply devotion:

• The angel Gabriel refers to Mary as “full of grace” (κεχαριτωμένη, kecharitōmenē) and declares that the Lord is with her (Luke 1:28).
• Elizabeth calls Mary “Mother of my Lord!” (Luke 1:43).
• The Gospel of John consistently identifies Mary as “mother of Jesus” (e.g., John 2:3).
• Ignatius of Antioch declares, “Our God, Jesus the Christ, was conceived by Mary by the dispensation of God” (Ignatius, To the Ephesians 18).

As the early church reflected on Jesus’ identity as the second person of the triune God, some came to identify His mother as “God-bearer” (Θεοτόκος, Theotokos) or “mother of God” (Μήτηρ του Θεού, Mētēr tou Theou). The Council of Ephesus affirmed these titles in AD 431. Although some heretical sects, such as the Collyridians, worshiped Mary as a goddess, Christians honored Mary because of her relationship to Jesus (Bradshaw and Johnson, Origins of Feasts, 196–214). Athanasius declared that it was necessary to keep a “commemoration” (Μνήμη, Mnēmē) of Mary in order to remember her faithfulness and relationship to Jesus (Athanasius, Letter to Epictetus 4; Letter to Maximus the Philosopher 3).


“Assumption of the Virgin,” in The Lexham Bible Dictionary
Click to expand...

No where in scripture is Mary referred to as the mother of God.

Mary went on to have others sons after Jesus.


And it was told Him by some, who said, “Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, desiring to see You.” But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.” Luke 8:20-21
 
Darrell L. said:
Question: Is Mary the mother of God (Theotokos)?

Answer: The phrase mother of God traces back to the third century and continues to be used in some liturgical churches, including the Roman Catholic Church. One of the topics at the Council of Ephesus in AD 431 was the use of the Greek term Theotókos (literally, “God-bearer” or “the one who gives birth to God”) in reference to Mary. That council’s use of Theotokos was meant to counter the heresy of Nestorianism, which cleaved the nature and person of Christ in two: Christ’s human and divine natures were completely divergent and unconnected. According to Nestorius, Mary gave birth to Christ but not to God; Mary was the mother of His humanity, which was totally distinct from His divinity—Jesus was two persons sharing one body, essentially. The Council of Ephesus affirmed the full deity of Christ and unity of His person by saying that Mary did indeed bear God in her womb. Mary is the “mother of God” in the sense that, since Jesus is God and Mary is the mother of Jesus, she is the mother of God. The Word became flesh (John 1:14), and Mary mothered Him.

We should distinguish the term Theotokos from mother of God, because there is a subtle yet important difference. The term mother of God could be taken wrongly as implying that Mary was the source or originator of God, similar to how Juno was the mother of Vulcan in Roman mythology. Of course, Christianity teaches that God is eternal and that Jesus Christ has a pre-existent, divine nature. The idea that Mary is the mother of God in the sense that she was the source of God or somehow predated God or is herself part of the Godhead is patently unbiblical.

The term Theotokos, on the other hand, is more specific and less open to being misconstrued. Theotokos simply implies that Mary carried God in her womb and gave birth to Him. Mary was the human agent through whom the eternal Son of God took on a human body and a human nature and entered the world. The term Theotokos was a succinct expression of the biblical teaching of the Incarnation, and that is how the Council of Ephesus used the word. Mary is the “God-bearer” in that within her body the divine person of God the Son took on human nature in addition to His pre-existing divine nature. Since Jesus is fully God and fully man, it is correct to say that Mary “bore” God.

Even though the term Theotokos was originally used to help explain the Incarnation, many people today use the term, or the related mother of God, to communicate something different. Through the years, many legends accumulated around the person of Mary, and she became an object of worship in her own right. About 350 years after the Council of Ephesus used the term Theotokos in reference to Mary, the Second Council of Nicaea declared, “We honor and salute and reverently venerate … the image of … our spotless Lady the all-holy mother of God.” This shows the trend within the Roman Church to move from a focus on the Incarnation of God to a veneration of the “Mother of God,” even to the point of honoring her images and praying to her as the “Queen of Heaven,” “Benefactress,” and “Mediatrix.” The necessity of such veneration is not implied by the term Theotokos, but some people wrongly infer it.

Roman Catholic leaders teach their followers to go to Mary to find help in their time of need: “From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of ‘Mother of God,’ to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, Part 1, Section 2, Chapter 3, Article 9, Paragraph 6, 971). The Eastern churches still use the term Theotokos, and they sing hymns called theotokia to Mary. This portion of a theotokion is from the liturgy of the Coptic Orthodox Church: “You are the pride of virgins, O Mary the Theotokos. / You are the soul’s city, where the Most High lived, who sits upon the throne, of the Cherubim.… / O Virgin Mary, the holy Mother of God, the trusted advocate, of the human race. / Intercede on our behalf, before Christ whom you have born, that He may grant unto us, the forgiveness of our sins” (from The Friday Theotokia—Watos). These views of Mary represent a theological shift away from Christ as our sole Redeemer and Intercessor (1 Timothy 2:5) and an overemphasis on Mary as the “Mother of God.”

FROM THE HEART of a LESSER WOMAN
Click to expand...
Thank you for this = i also examined this information BEFORE i posted

My question to you is this: From your own words, what are you deriving from this information?
a.) 100% correct
b.) some truth mixed with some assumptions
c.) mostly incorrect
d.) general info on how & who began the "mother of God"

again THANK YOU for sharing
 
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Darrell L. said:
Question: Is Mary the mother of God (Theotokos)?

Answer: The phrase mother of God traces back to the third century and continues to be used in some liturgical churches, including the Roman Catholic Church. One of the topics at the Council of Ephesus in AD 431 was the use of the Greek term Theotókos (literally, “God-bearer” or “the one who gives birth to God”) in reference to Mary. That council’s use of Theotokos was meant to counter the heresy of Nestorianism, which cleaved the nature and person of Christ in two: Christ’s human and divine natures were completely divergent and unconnected. According to Nestorius, Mary gave birth to Christ but not to God; Mary was the mother of His humanity, which was totally distinct from His divinity—Jesus was two persons sharing one body, essentially. The Council of Ephesus affirmed the full deity of Christ and unity of His person by saying that Mary did indeed bear God in her womb. Mary is the “mother of God” in the sense that, since Jesus is God and Mary is the mother of Jesus, she is the mother of God. The Word became flesh (John 1:14), and Mary mothered Him.

We should distinguish the term Theotokos from mother of God, because there is a subtle yet important difference. The term mother of God could be taken wrongly as implying that Mary was the source or originator of God, similar to how Juno was the mother of Vulcan in Roman mythology. Of course, Christianity teaches that God is eternal and that Jesus Christ has a pre-existent, divine nature. The idea that Mary is the mother of God in the sense that she was the source of God or somehow predated God or is herself part of the Godhead is patently unbiblical.

The term Theotokos, on the other hand, is more specific and less open to being misconstrued. Theotokos simply implies that Mary carried God in her womb and gave birth to Him. Mary was the human agent through whom the eternal Son of God took on a human body and a human nature and entered the world. The term Theotokos was a succinct expression of the biblical teaching of the Incarnation, and that is how the Council of Ephesus used the word. Mary is the “God-bearer” in that within her body the divine person of God the Son took on human nature in addition to His pre-existing divine nature. Since Jesus is fully God and fully man, it is correct to say that Mary “bore” God.

Even though the term Theotokos was originally used to help explain the Incarnation, many people today use the term, or the related mother of God, to communicate something different. Through the years, many legends accumulated around the person of Mary, and she became an object of worship in her own right. About 350 years after the Council of Ephesus used the term Theotokos in reference to Mary, the Second Council of Nicaea declared, “We honor and salute and reverently venerate … the image of … our spotless Lady the all-holy mother of God.” This shows the trend within the Roman Church to move from a focus on the Incarnation of God to a veneration of the “Mother of God,” even to the point of honoring her images and praying to her as the “Queen of Heaven,” “Benefactress,” and “Mediatrix.” The necessity of such veneration is not implied by the term Theotokos, but some people wrongly infer it.

Roman Catholic leaders teach their followers to go to Mary to find help in their time of need: “From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of ‘Mother of God,’ to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, Part 1, Section 2, Chapter 3, Article 9, Paragraph 6, 971). The Eastern churches still use the term Theotokos, and they sing hymns called theotokia to Mary. This portion of a theotokion is from the liturgy of the Coptic Orthodox Church: “You are the pride of virgins, O Mary the Theotokos. / You are the soul’s city, where the Most High lived, who sits upon the throne, of the Cherubim.… / O Virgin Mary, the holy Mother of God, the trusted advocate, of the human race. / Intercede on our behalf, before Christ whom you have born, that He may grant unto us, the forgiveness of our sins” (from The Friday Theotokia—Watos). These views of Mary represent a theological shift away from Christ as our sole Redeemer and Intercessor (1 Timothy 2:5) and an overemphasis on Mary as the “Mother of God.”

FROM THE HEART of a LESSER WOMAN
Click to expand...
These views of Mary represent a theological shift away from Christ as our sole Redeemer and Intercessor (1 Timothy 2:5) and an overemphasis on Mary as the “Mother of God.”

FROM THE HEART of a LESSER WOMAN
Click to expand...

i AGREE with the history info AND the very last statement FROM THE HEART of a LESSER WOMAN
 
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Donald said:
I get this asked this question all the time. The answer is yes but maybe not in the way you may think. It's not in the same way we pray to God. We ask her to intercede for us with God, believing she is a powerful intercessor due to her role as the Mother of God and her close relationship with Jesus. We Catholics see Mary as a model of faith and obedience, seeking to emulate her example and ask for her prayers.

We also pray to the saints. Asking the prayers of the saints is a tradition of the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Churches, and the Oriental Churches – in other words, all historical and apostolic churches which go back to the first century hold to this practice.

It is only the Protestant communities which started in the 16th century and later who reject this ancient Christian practice.

Jesus is the only mediator between man and God, but this in no way means we cannot or should not ask our fellow Christians to pray with us and for us. 1 Tim. 2:1–4 In particular, we should ask the intercession of those Christians in heaven, who have already had their sanctification completed, for "The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects." James. 5:16

In the Book of Revelation St. John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints". Rev. 5:8

Therefore the saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth. 

Angels do the same thing: "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God." Rev. 8:3–4
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So you admit that you speak with and pray to the dead. This is called necromancy, which is forbidden by God. To suggest that this was an ancient Christian practice and that even the apostles did this is sheer folly. If, in fact, any "Christian" in history practiced this, he too was guilty of idolatry. This is just one example of the extreme idolatry that takes place in the Catholic church.

Yes, Mary was a godly woman - so the apostles were godly men - but we don't pray to men.

When a woman came to Jesus and said "Blessed is the womb that bore you and the breasts at which you nursed." Luke 11:27, He could have said, "Oh yes, blessed is My mother Mary." BUT HE DIDN'T. He said, ON THE CONTRARY, BLESSED ARE THOSE WHO HEAR THE WORD OF GOD AND OBSERVE IT." He was deflecting her focus on Mary (or the saints) and directing it where it should be, on the Word of God.
 
synergy said:
Nobody can find the word "Trinity" in the Bible either.
Because of that fact then Trinitarian theology for you is all faulty logic.
Fascinating.....
Click to expand...
God laid the Foundation of Truth in Genesis.
This Foundation is how HE communicates to us Who HE Is.

#1 - Thus the correct word for 'God' is Elohim, which is Plural.

#2 - Elohim builds on His Truth = Genesis 1:26
"Let Us make man in Our image according to Our Likeness"

#3 - Elohim NEVER declares of Himself having a 'mother'

#4 - Elohim does Prophecy to Satan that the Savior will be flesh and of the woman's seed = Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”

#5 - Genesis 3:15 = 1 Timothy 3:16 = John 1:14
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us

Please find in the OT any scripture that prophecies of God having a mother - Thank You @synergy
 
DavidTree said:
God laid the Foundation of Truth in Genesis.
This Foundation is how HE communicates to us Who HE Is.

#1 - Thus the correct word for 'God' is Elohim, which is Plural.

#2 - Elohim builds on His Truth = Genesis 1:26
"Let Us make man in Our image according to Our Likeness"

#3 - Elohim NEVER declares of Himself having a 'mother'

#4 - Elohim does Prophecy to Satan that the Savior will be flesh and of the woman's seed = Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”

#5 - Genesis 3:15 = 1 Timothy 3:16 = John 1:14
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us

Please find in the OT any scripture that prophecies of God having a mother - Thank You @synergy
Click to expand...
I see that you couldn't find the word "Trinity" and yet it's still true. Right?
Same thing for the meter/mother of God.
That's all I needed to know.
 

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