Do Catholics Pray to Mary?

[GodsGrace]

John 13:35
35 "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."
God has given me great love for you = therefore the Holy Spirit is in me to direct you to the Holy Scriptures and Salavtion in Christ and Christ alone.

For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle—
I am speaking the truth in Christ and not lying - 1 Timothy 2:5

Why not reply instead?

Are YOU appointed a preacher?
Are YOU appointed an Apostle?
By whose authority?

HOW can we know FOR SURE that you are speaking the truth?
There is only One Truth David.
His name Is Jesus.

And He had a real mother.

If you want to say that Mary is not the mother of God...
then you're going to have to explain how Jesus is God...
if Mary is His mother....and she CANNOT be the Mother of God.

And please don't worry about my salvation.
I do appreciate it however.

 

[DavidTree]

HOW can we know FOR SURE that you are speaking the truth?

Compare everything i say to the words of God = the Holy Scriptures
Always do this no matter who is speaking or writing to you.

There is only One Truth David.
His name Is Jesus.

Absolutely TRUE 100% of the Time = only the Lord Jesus Christ is the WAY the TRUTH and the LIFE

Because JESUS is the Savior and our Chief Apostle, HE alone is able to intercede on our behalf before God the FATHER.

Hebrews 3:1-6
Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus, who was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was faithful in all His house. For this One has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as He who built the house has more honor than the house. For every house is built by someone, but He who built all things is God. And Moses indeed was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken afterward, but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle—
I am speaking the truth in Christ and not lying - 1 Timothy 2:5

 

[DavidTree]

Do you realize how many on these Forums are getting doctrine incorrect?
Do you really think that doctrine is going to save you
or
Do you think that Jesus is going to save you?

Praying to a saint is wrong.
But if I grow up in a place that does this..
or in a denomination that teaches this...
how is God going to hold me responsible for obeying those HE put in charge?

I've said this many times now and I'm tiring of posting it, but here it is.

There are only 2 necessary rules for being saved:

1. Believe in God.
2. Obey God. (by obey, I mean to live your life in a way pleasing to God).

Not everyone has read the bible.
Not everyone can understand it.
Not everyone is theologically inclined.

Are they lost??

i really like this post = thank you

Dinnertime now for me - i will respond later

In the meantime please review John 1:1-14 , 1 Peter 1:17-21 , Timothy 2:5 , Acts 4:8-12

 

[GodsGrace]

Compare everything i say to the words of God = the Holy Scriptures
Always do this no matter who is speaking or writing to you.


Absolutely TRUE 100% of the Time = only the Lord Jesus Christ is the WAY the TRUTH and the LIFE

Because JESUS is the Savior and our Chief Apostle, HE alone is able to intercede on our behalf before God the FATHER.

Hebrews 3:1-6
Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus, who was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was faithful in all His house. For this One has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as He who built the house has more honor than the house. For every house is built by someone, but He who built all things is God. And Moses indeed was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken afterward, but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle—
I am speaking the truth in Christ and not lying - 1 Timothy 2:5

DavidTree,,,,
You don't seem to grasp what I'm saying.....

In post no. 230 you stated the following:
"Bringing forth Gospel Truth that can SAVE a soul from religious beliefs that can damn a soul forever."

In post no. 235 you stated the following....
"there are eternal consequences for disobeying God and praying to idols."


I don't know why your posting Hebrews and Timothy to me...
I've stated that I'm not Catholic.

What I AM saying is that our doctrine will not save us....
I believe there is one belief that might damn a person, but only because it might change their behavior.
(and I'm not getting into it here).


All other doctrine, including praying to a saint, will not damn anyone if they are believing in God and doing their best to obey Him.

Praying to a saint or believing in purgatory is NOT going to get anyone into hell.
This is incorrect DOCTRINE....it does not have any bearing on a person's behavior.
Every denomination has incorrect doctrine of one type or another.
If we depended on knowing perfect doctrinal issues, we'd all be short of the glory of God.
If we're believing in Jesus and following Him...we will be in God's glory.
Thanks to Jesus...not because of our doctrinal perfection.

I firmly believe that you should stop making those type of statement.

 

[Red Baker]

@Donald @God'sGrace

If you want to say that Mary is not the mother of God...

I'll say it and ALL Christians should likewise say it ~ God is eteranl both ways and does have mother, and it is blasphemy to even think He does.

The following attributes have ever been conceived as essential to the Godhead: Self-existence, Infinity, Independence, Omniscience, Omnipotence, Omnipresence, Immutability, eternal both ways, and Infinite in every way possible that is imaginable to the human mind.

Mary, was the mother of God's Son, Jesus. God is a Spirit, always has been, always will be. The Mystery of godliness is God was manifest in the flesh in the person of His Son, Jesus of Narareth who is the express image of God. The Word which was God (without any qualifications) joined Himself to the tabernacle of his Son and lived in this world for around thirty three plus years. Thus, Jesus was a complex person...FULLY God, and FULLY man, and these two natures never interacted with each others, without controversy a great mystery, yet revealed to us from the scriptures.

 

[GodsGrace]

@Donald @God'sGrace

I'll say it and ALL Christians should likewise say it ~ God is eteranl both ways and does have mother, and it is blasphemy to even think He does.

The following attributes have ever been conceived as essential to the Godhead: Self-existence, Infinity, Independence, Omniscience, Omnipotence, Omnipresence, Immutability, eternal both ways, and Infinite in every way possible that is imaginable to the human mind.

Mary, was the mother of God's Son, Jesus. God is a Spirit, always has been, always will be. The Mystery of godliness is God was manifest in the flesh in the person of His Son, Jesus of Narareth who is the express image of God. The Word which was God (without any qualifications) joined Himself to the tabernacle of his Son and lived in this world for around thirty three plus years. Thus, Jesus was a complex person...FULLY God, and FULLY man, and these two natures never interacted with each others, without controversy a great mystery, yet revealed to us from the scriptures.

Are you a JW?
They also believe Jesus is God's Son
But not God.

 

[DavidTree]

Do you realize how many on these Forums are getting doctrine incorrect?
Do you really think that doctrine is going to save you
or
Do you think that Jesus is going to save you?

Praying to a saint is wrong.
But if I grow up in a place that does this..
or in a denomination that teaches this...
how is God going to hold me responsible for obeying those HE put in charge?

I've said this many times now and I'm tiring of posting it, but here it is.

There are only 2 necessary rules for being saved:

1. Believe in God.
2. Obey God. (by obey, I mean to live your life in a way pleasing to God).

Not everyone has read the bible.
Not everyone can understand it.
Not everyone is theologically inclined.

Are they lost??

Do you realize how many on these Forums are getting doctrine incorrect?

Yes, and this is why the Holy Spirit has others and myself posting the TRUTH = found in His Word

Do you really think that doctrine is going to save you

JESUS Says "Yes and Absolutely"

My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass: = Do you understand what God is saying here??? = Deuteronomy 32:2

Now about the middle of the feast Jesus went up into the temple and taught.
And the Jews marveled, saying, “How does this Man know letters, having never studied?”

Jesus answered them and said, “My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me.
If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority.
He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory;


Then they went into Capernaum, and immediately on the Sabbath He entered the synagogue and taught.
And they were astonished at His doctrine, for He taught them(DOCTRINE) as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

TRUTH Conclusion for @GodsGrace : 1 Timothy 4:16

Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.


Shalom in the TRUTH of God = the LORD Jesus Christ and His Doctrine

 

[synergy]

Do you believe Jesus is God?
If yes then Mary is the mother of God.

@DavidTree. You didn't answer my question. Any dancing around my question will not be considered.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, and this is why the Holy Spirit has others and myself posting the TRUTH = found in His Word


JESUS Says "Yes and Absolutely"

My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass: = Do you understand what God is saying here??? = Deuteronomy 32:2

Now about the middle of the feast Jesus went up into the temple and taught.
And the Jews marveled, saying, “How does this Man know letters, having never studied?”

Jesus answered them and said, “My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me.
If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority.
He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory;


Then they went into Capernaum, and immediately on the Sabbath He entered the synagogue and taught.
And they were astonished at His doctrine, for He taught them(DOCTRINE) as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

TRUTH Conclusion for @GodsGrace : 1 Timothy 4:16

Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.


Shalom in the TRUTH of God = the LORD Jesus Christ and His Doctrine

David
If you believe correct doctrine will save you, then you better make sure you have it all 100% correct.

I think it's Jesus that went to the cross....not doctrine.

 

[GodsGrace]

Do you believe Jesus is God?
If yes then Mary is the mother of God.

Does seem to be logical.

 

[DavidTree]

@DavidTree. You didn't answer my question. Any dancing around my question will not be considered.

Good Morning @synergy @GodsGrace

Always begin with the TRUTH = Mary was created by the only begotten Son of God = not vice versa

God deposited into Mary, by the Holy Spirit, the Word that was God and became flesh = Luke 1:26-55 , John 1:14

Mary indeed gave birth to a male child whom she was instructed to call His name Jesus = the Body only

Hebrews 10:5
Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:
“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a Body You have prepared for Me.

Mary did not pro-create God = NEVER happened = God prepared the Body inside Mary for the Word to dwell in
"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth." - John 1:14

Mary is NEVER given the title as "Mother of God" by the LORD, by the Apostles, by any OT Prophet nor Revelation

Please review again the TRUTH from God's Mouth = Gospel of John 1:1-5

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God.
All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made = the Word created Mary

In Him was life, and the life was the light of men = Mary received her life from the Word = not reverse like RCC thinks

And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. = Mary needed The Light to save her

Mary had a God and she needed her God to save her = Luke 1:47
And Mary said:
“My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the lowly state of His maidservant;

Mary knows that she was never the mother of God
Mary knows Genesis 3:15 and she knew Who was inside her and Where HE came from

 

[synergy]

I never mentioned the Bible as idolatrous.

But you didn't acknowledge the Bible verses that prove the Bible's support for intercessory prayer.

Those who pray to other people and not God are operating in idolatry.

Again, the Bible is not idolatrous when it comes to intercessory prayer as proven by the following passages:

1. Saints Offering Prayers to God (Rev 5:8)

“...the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb... and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.”

These verses show heavenly figures as representing the saints in heaven interceding on behalf of those on earth. This shows that there is intercessions by saints in heaven for our prayers.

2. Heavenly Awareness and Concern (Rev 6:9–10)

“They cried out with a loud voice, ‘O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood...?’”

The souls of martyrs are aware of what is happening on earth and are calling out to God—this shows the conscious activity and intercession of saints in heaven.

3. The Communion of Saints (Heb 12:1)

“Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses...”

This “cloud of witnesses” (the faithful who have gone before us) is spiritually present and aware of our journey, suggesting solidarity and support, which underlies the idea of their intercession.

4. Angelic and Human Intercession (Jer 15:1 and Job 33:23–24)

These OT verses show angels or holy persons on earth interceding on behalf of others. So if holy people on earth have that much intercessory capabilities, think about how much more intercessory ability saints in heaven have where they're closer to God as mentioned in my first example.

 

[JLB]

But you didn't acknowledge the Bible verses that prove the Bible's support for intercessory prayer.

Prayer by definition is to be made to God, in Jesus name.


“And in that day you will ask Me nothing. Most assuredly, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in My name He will give you. Until now you have asked nothing in My name. Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be full. John 16:23-24


This is what Jesus taught. This is His doctrine.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


Praying to people is idolatry and is a transgression of what the Lord so plainly taught.

 

[synergy]

Good Morning @synergy @GodsGrace

Always begin with the TRUTH = Mary was created by the only begotten Son of God = not vice versa

God deposited into Mary, by the Holy Spirit, the Word that was God and became flesh = Luke 1:26-55 , John 1:14

Mary indeed gave birth to a male child whom she was instructed to call His name Jesus = the Body only

Hebrews 10:5
Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:
“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a Body You have prepared for Me.

Mary did not pro-create God = NEVER happened = God prepared the Body inside Mary for the Word to dwell in
"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth." - John 1:14

Mary is NEVER given the title as "Mother of God" by the LORD, by the Apostles, by any OT Prophet nor Revelation

Please review again the TRUTH from God's Mouth = Gospel of John 1:1-5

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God.
All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made = the Word created Mary

In Him was life, and the life was the light of men = Mary received her life from the Word = not reverse like RCC thinks

And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. = Mary needed The Light to save her

Mary had a God and she needed her God to save her = Luke 1:47
And Mary said:
“My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the lowly state of His maidservant;

So then you do agree that Jesus is God. Right?
Therefore, Mary is the mother of God.
That's all I needed to know.

 

[DavidTree]

David
If you believe correct doctrine will save you, then you better make sure you have it all 100% correct.

I think it's Jesus that went to the cross....not doctrine.

What came first the Cross or Doctrine from God

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


God's DOCTRINE = "it's Jesus that went to the cross"

God's DOCTRINE = John 3:13-15
No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up = CROSS
that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

What came FIRST???

 

[DavidTree]

So then you do agree that Jesus is God. Right?
Therefore, Mary is the mother of God.
That's all I needed to know.

Are you able to comprehend the words of God?

Or are you dependent upon earthbound religious people/institutions to direct your mind

 

[DavidTree]

So then you do agree that Jesus is God. Right?
Therefore, Mary is the mother of God.
That's all I needed to know.

And Mary said:
“My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the lowly state of His maidservant;

Mary knows that she was never "theotokos"
Mary knows Genesis 3:15 and she knew Who was inside her and Where HE came from = Luke 1:26-38
Mary was the 'meter' of the Body that God prepared inside her = Hebrews 10:5

 

[synergy]

Prayer by definition is to be made to God, in Jesus name.

“And in that day you will ask Me nothing. Most assuredly, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in My name He will give you. Until now you have asked nothing in My name. Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be full. John 16:23-24

This is what Jesus taught. This is His doctrine.

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

I agree with the passages but how do you resolve the fact that the twenty-four elders were part of the delivery service of prayers to God? That's evidence of intercessory prayers right there.

Praying to people is idolatry and is a transgression of what the Lord so plainly taught.

Again, the Revelation verses concerning intercessory prayer are not idolatrous.

 

[synergy]

And Mary said:
“My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the lowly state of His maidservant;

Mary knows that she was never "theotokos"
Mary knows Genesis 3:15 and she knew Who was inside her and Where HE came from = Luke 1:26-38
Mary was the 'meter' of the Body that God prepared inside her = Hebrews 10:5

So you want to call Mary the meter of our Savior?
But Jesus is God. Right?
So Mary can be called meter of God.
That's still a magnificent title, in my estimation.

 

[DavidTree]

So you want to call Mary the meter of our Savior?
But Jesus is God. Right?
So Mary can be called meter of God.
That's still a magnificent title, in my estimation.

God called Mary 'meter' = Do you believe God at His word?

JESUS is the "son of man" = Do you believe JESUS at His word?

JESUS is the only begotten Son of God = Do you believe the FATHER and His Son's words?

Hebrews 10:5
Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:
“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.