Did Jesus Shed His Humanity at the Ascension?

[civic]

IS JESUS STILL A MAN?
Civic and I have discussed this maybe 20 times over the years but for those who have not heard my position: NO, Jesus is no longer a man.

1. Psalm 8:5, Heb 2:19 - He was for a litle while lower than the angels. As a man he was lower than angels just like all men.
2. 1 John 3:2 Rom 8_19- When we see Him as He is, we will be like him but the aposle John having seen Him resurrected says we have not yet seen Him as He is (otherwise John would hae ben transformed) - When Christ comes back there will be a revealing of the Sons of God and the universe will see what we are?
3. 1 Cor 15:20 - flesh and blood cannot enter an imperishible Kingdom. WIthout flesh and blood we are not human.
4. Rom 1:23 - The form of human flesh is corruptible. God is incorruptible.
5. Col 2:9 is in the present and future. Jesus is in Heaven, it says the fullness of deity dwells in Him
6. Heb 8:6. A mediator is a court term. Many of you know what a mediator does. He brings the two parties to agreement and then presents the pact to the judge. He does not defend either party. He brings them together and then to the Judge. He does not agrue before the judge.

If you want any more detail on theses, I will do what I can

You know that the central message in the gospel is the bodily Resurrection and Ascension of Jesus right ?

The Apostles talked more about His Resurrection than any other aspect of the gospel.

 

[Diserner]

I think they talked about the Blood of Jesus and forgiveness of sins more than the bodily resurrection.

But it's still important.

 

[civic]

I think they talked about the Blood of Jesus and forgiveness of sins more than the bodily resurrection.

But it's still important.

I should have clarified my statement. In Acts and 1 Corinthians 15.

 

[Rockson]

Rockson . as for exalted man that phrase is not in the Bible.

Heb 7: 25, Acts 22: 23 and Phil 2 9 does use the word exalted though.

Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, Phil 2:9

Seeing we know that Jesus is God why did he need to have a name above every name given to him? It seems to me that he did so because he the Father was still talking to the humanity of Jesus, the Son of Man who fulfilled the law upon the earth and who was obedient unto the death. So I don't know why you couldn't consider Jesus the exalted MAN.

 

[Handaan]

So what's wrong Seth with believing he's an exalted man? Exalted meaning his physicals body received and upgrade at the resurrection ? That wouldn't in my opinion not make him a man or member of humanity anymore would it? Why should you think so?


Well surely you agree right that Jesus body was glorified? Why can't you believe it was the same body but upgraded?

So again why can't you believe he can have that and be in a glorified body?
And what does it say about us or God's intent even for us? This may blow people's minds but here's what it says,

"That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 19And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. Eph 3:17

That doesn't mean we'll be God of course not but it states we can become filled with all the fulness of God. So will that mean we're not humanity any more or of the MAN species? I can't figure out why you say it wouldn't.

When we see him face to face will know exactly what kind of body Jesus is in. Until then we can make judgment calls and your post sounds like good judgment to me. And you're absolutely right Seth It's definitely entitled to his opinion. The bodies we're going to have we'll never wear out and never die, I would call that a glorified body.

 

[sethproton]

Who said he was?

What does this statement have to do with the price of tea in China?


Now Christ did not say "I used to be the offspring of David."

This is the end of the end, the all things new, the last chapter in Revelation, Christ has ascended in his new state.

And he said "I AM THE OFFSPRING OF DAVID."

The only way that can logically be true, is if he is still human.



This has nothing to do with the statement.

It's like a huge red herring to obfuscate and distract from the direct point being made.

Why would you do that?


"I am the offspring of David." — ascended Jesus

if David is no longer human in heavem his offpring of faith, are still his offspring . the word offspring does not imply human. And both David and Christ are changed in to something new, Christ at his resurrection and us at the resurecction.

 

[civic]

When we see him face to face will know exactly what kind of body Jesus is in. Until then we can make judgment calls and your post sounds like good judgment to me. And you're absolutely right Seth It's definitely entitled to his opinion. The bodies we're going to have we'll never wear out and never die, I would call that a glorified body.

Dont you know face to face means faceless , no face rofl

 

[Handaan]

Dont you know face to face means faceless , no face rofl

No I've actually never heard that. There's a lot of things I don't know. But in this case, to me it's like that difference between talking to someone on the phone Or talking to them in person.

Survey says...

adjective
adjective: face-to-face

1. (of a situation) characterized by having those involved close together and facing each other.
   "a face-to-face conversation"
   

adverb
adverb: face to face

1. so as to be close together and facing each other.
   "the two men stood face to face"

 

[sethproton]

Heb 7: 25, Acts 22: 23 and Phil 2 9 does use the word exalted though.

Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, Phil 2:9

Seeing we know that Jesus is God why did he need to have a name above every name given to him? It seems to me that he did so because he the Father was still talking to the humanity of Jesus, the Son of Man who fulfilled the law upon the earth and who was obedient unto the death. So I don't know why you couldn't consider Jesus the exalted MAN.

I just said becaue that phrase is not in the word
Phil 2:9 does not say exalted body, it Says Jesus was exalted. As a man? As some new form?

 

[sethproton]

Dont you know face to face means faceless , no face rofl

Could you for once drop the sarcasm, and if you want to discuss these verses then do it intelligently

 

[sethproton]

No I've actually never heard that. There's a lot of things I don't know. But in this case, to me it's like that difference between talking to someone on the phone Or talking to them in person.

Survey says...

adjective
adjective: face-to-face

1. (of a situation) characterized by having those involved close together and facing each other.
   "a face-to-face conversation"

adverb
adverb: face to face

1. so as to be close together and facing each other.
   "the two men stood face to face"

And what happens when we come face to face with Christ? WE are transformed, changed into whatever He has become? Did you miss the idea John said this? And John saw Him post reasurrecton but did not know what he looks like now.

 

[civic]

No I've actually never heard that. There's a lot of things I don't know. But in this case, to me it's like that difference between talking to someone on the phone Or talking to them in person.

Survey says...

adjective
adjective: face-to-face

1. (of a situation) characterized by having those involved close together and facing each other.
   "a face-to-face conversation"

adverb
adverb: face to face

1. so as to be close together and facing each other.
   "the two men stood face to face"

I was joking being sarcastic

 

[Handaan]

I was joking being sarcastic

So was I

 

[Handaan]

And what happens when we come face to face with Christ? WE are transformed, changed into whatever He has become? Did you miss the idea John said this? And John saw Him post reasurrecton but did not know what he looks like now.

No I'm actually quite familiar with the Book of John. My point is we don't know what he looks like now. We don't even know what he looked like then When John saw him. We know that he had nail holes in his hands and ankles he had a spear hole in his side and he probably had a whole bunch of marks from the whip and bruises from punches and a few scratches from the crown of thorns. Do I believe that he has a glorified body Now? Yes I do. Do I believe we will be transformed into his image completely when we see him face to face? Yes I do.

 

[civic]

Could you for once drop the sarcasm, and if you want to discuss these verses then do it intelligently

Sure but we must come to an agreement on terms, words and phrases. Such as a few here :

1-Man is first created as a body, soul and spirit. The body preceded the other two. See Genesis creation account.

2-You cannot make the present tense mean the last

3-Flesh and bones does not mean flesh and blood , those are not synonymous terms

4-A spirit is non corporeal

5-Resurrection means a raised of the dead of a physical body. No body no resurrection

5-And finally with every point you believe there must be a minimum of 1 verse to support your claims but hopefully you can provide at least a few.

hope this helps !!!

 

[civic]

No I'm actually quite familiar with the Book of John. My point is we don't know what he looks like now. We don't even know what he looked like then When John saw him. We know that he had nail holes in his hands and ankles he had a spear hole in his side and he probably had a whole bunch of marks from the whip and bruises from punches and a few scratches from the crown of thorns. Do I believe that he has a glorified body Now? Yes I do. Do I believe we will be transformed into his image completely when we see him face to face? Yes I do.

Correct they all saw Jesus on this side of heaven and not the other side. But Paul saw Him posts Ascension years later. Paul saw Jesus post Ascension whereas the other disciples like John saw Him pre Ascension.

And we know Paul proclaimed His post Ascension body is physical, real human body that is tangible

 

[sethproton]

No I'm actually quite familiar with the Book of John. My point is we don't know what he looks like now. We don't even know what he looked like then When John saw him. We know that he had nail holes in his hands and ankles he had a spear hole in his side and he probably had a whole bunch of marks from the whip and bruises from punches and a few scratches from the crown of thorns. Do I believe that he has a glorified body Now? Yes I do. Do I believe we will be transformed into his image completely when we see him face to face? Yes I do.

I think mistated something. He got his new body at the resurrection, not the ascension.. but he took on forms so people could understand He had cme back to life. Nobody recognized him, but they knew it was Him.

 

[sethproton]

Sure but we must come to an agreement on terms, words and phrases. Such as a few here :

1-Man is first created as a body, soul and spirit. The body preceded the other two. See Genesis creation account.

2-You cannot make the present tense mean the last

3-Flesh and bones does not mean flesh and blood , those are not synonymous terms

4-A spirit is non corporeal

5-Resurrection means a raised of the dead of a physical body. No body no resurrection

5-And finally with every point you believe there must be a minimum of 1 verse to support your claims but hopefully you can provide at least a few.

hope this helps !!!

In my post Every Single idea was accompanied by a verse or two. You didn't notice? But you didn't quote a single verse here. Can we come to an agreement if your terms are not from the Bible?

 

[civic]

In my post Every Single idea was accompanied by a verse or two. You didn't notice? But you didn't quote a single verse here. Can we come to an agreement if your terms are not from the Bible?

I want to set the groundwork for a fruitful discussion. Are you ok with that ?

 

[Rockson]

And we know Paul proclaimed His post Ascension body is physical, real human body that is tangible

When you say his ascension Civic you're referring to when he went up in a cloud in Acts 1? Is that when you believe he received his resurrected body? I believe we're believing the same thing that Jesus physical body is the same one now....I believe it received an upgrade though....It's the same body with the print of the nails in the hands and feet but upon being resurrected it has a higher capacity.....it can now I'll put it his way....move back and forth between the Kingdom of God we could call the Spirit or the universe thereof and back into the pure physical.

When Mary saw Jesus at the tomb he said the following, Not to touch him for he had to go to the Father....Jn 20:16 I think it means not so much that he didn't want her to touch him but rather as another translation says cling to me....or hold me back, in other words I've got to be going to the Father now. So he went then....to the Kingdom of God....I think to establish now his High Priest position...but came back down once established and that's where you see the few times he did appear before his ascension.

Interesting to note that in John 20:26 it states that he appeared in the room with the disciples the doors being shut. Just appeared. Not merely just a spirit....he even brought that up.....a spirit has not flesh and bones as you see I have.....it was his physical body....but an upgrade for physical bodies can't just appear in any space it wants without going through doors. But Jesus body WAS PHYSICAL and the same one he had prior....but upgraded I think.

Maybe not a great analogy but it could help. If we think of substance....like coffee in a cup. It's black. That's what it is. By imparting another ingredient like a cream.....it is STILL the coffee it was but upgraded. It now has a higher capacity. Jesus glorified body is his physical body but it's capacity is above what it once was. Enough for this one post anyway. I might add further thoughts.