brightfame52
Active Member
No its not wrong
Did God Predestinate some to Hell/Wrath ?
- Thread starter brightfame52
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brightfame52
Active Member
Angels means messengers, Satan the devil has human messengers, ministers 2 Cor 11:11-15
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
The word apostles in Vs 13 is apostolos :
a delegate, messenger, one sent forth with orders
They are his messengers, they are included in Matt 25:41
Doug Brents
Active Member
The Apostles of Christ were not angels. And the angels of Satan do not include his "apostles" or other followers/messengers. These are completely different words, titles, positions of authority. No, the angels of Satan do not include his human followers. The angels of Satan are the angels who rebelled against God when he did. You are making connections where Scripture does not.
brightfame52
Active Member
Many humans are the devils angels/messengers. Jesus calls certain ministers angels, and they are human Rev 2:1
Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
The devil has messengers that are human, so I beg to differ, the Matt 25:41 does include humans
brightfame52
Active Member
You dont get it. They were messengers, and angel means messenger
Doug Brents
Active Member
I know what "angel" means. I also know that the angels of God (and Satan) are not humans (although they can take our forms when they need to (Heb 13:2)). The lake of fire was created for Satan and his angels, not him and his followers. Satan's human followers are servants, not his angels; just as God's human follower are His servants, not His angels. Scripture doesn't use words frivolously or randomly.
brightfame52
Active Member
Yes messenger. Ministers of churches are called angels or messengers Rev 2:1
Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
Doug Brents
Active Member
That is written to an angel who is designated to guide/protect the Church in that city. That is not an Elder of the Church (a human man), nor any other person within that congregation of the Church. Again, an angel is NOT a man (although they can take on the form of a man as their mission demands). An angel is a spiritual messenger of God.
brightfame52
Active Member
Thats true but not the point. The point is humans are the devils messengers
Gill writes:
prepared for the devil and his angels; for Satan, or Beelzebub, the prince of devils, and all his principalities and powers under him: it is not said to be prepared for these persons, though it was, and who were foreordained to this condemnation, but for the devil and his angels; showing, that the same punishment will be inflicted on hypocrites and carnal professors, as on the devils themselves; and it is indeed of such, that the devouring fire, and everlasting burnings are spoken, in Isaiah 33:14, to which this passage seems to have some respect; for no where else is mention made of this everlasting fire: it is not said neither when it was prepared. It is a notion of the Jews (l), that the angels were created on the second day; and it should seem by them, that they fell the same day; hence it is a prevailing opinion among them (m), that hell was made on the second day of the creation; though at, other times, they reckon hell among the seven things which were created before the world was, and which may be reconciled together: for as heaven, the place of the saints' happiness, was prepared from the foundation of the world, or on the first day of its creation, though the happiness itself was provided long before; so hell, the place of the torments of the devils and wicked, though it was not made or prepared until the second day of the creation, when, according to this opinion, the angels were made and fell; yet the punishment they were to endure there, was appointed before the world was; and so hell is said to.
, "be ordained from eternity", because of their sins (o),
(k) Targum in Isaiah 33.14. (l) Targum Jon. in Gen. i. 26. Pirke Eliezer, c. 4. (m) Targum in Cant. viii. 6. T. Bab. Pesach. fol. 54. 1. Zohar in Gen. fol. 13. 3. & 30. 2. & in Exod. fol. 61. 4. & in Deut. fol. 120. 1. Bereshit Rabba, sect. 4. fol. 4. 1. & sect. 21. fol. 19. 1. Shemot Rabba, sect. 15. fol. 101. 4. Tzeror Hammor, fol. 1. 2. & 121. & 1. 2. & 130. 3.(
Doug Brents
Active Member
That is clearly your opinion, but it does not fit with what Scripture SAYS.
brightfame52
Active Member
Based upon the word of God
Doug Brents
Active Member
No, it is based on what you want the Word of God to be saying. It is not based upon a proper, honest interpretation of what the Word actually says.
You do the same to Scripture that you do to most of the posts to which you reply: you cut out the important parts and only address the parts that you choose to. The parts that you actually explain what you choose to comment on are deleted so that you can feel good about your personal doctrinal position. That is neither honest nor proper.
brightfame52
Active Member
Yes it is based upon the word of God, and all of our notions of scripture should be based upon scripture. You know angel means messenger
Doug Brents
Active Member
Yes, angel means messenger. But in Scripture an angel is a different kind of being than a human is. You cannot reduce "angel" to "messenger" because it removes the distinction between human and angelic beings who are messengers. Moses was a messenger from God to Pharaoh, but Moses was NOT an angel.
brightfame52
Active Member
Couple of translations,
Literal Translations
Literal Standard Version
Then will He say also to those on the left hand, Go from Me, the cursed, into the continuous fire that has been prepared for the Devil and his messengers;
Young's Literal Translation
Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers;
Smith's Literal Translation
Then shall he say to them from the left, Go away from me, the cursed, into eternal fire, prepared for the devil and his messengers:
Also us being on this public platform sharing religious views, we are being messengers to a degree, either for God or for the devil
brightfame52
Active Member
John the Baptist, a messenger harbinger for Christ yet he is called an Angel Mal 3:1
Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.
mal'āḵ
- messenger, representative
- messenger
- angel
- the theophanic angel
Doug Brents
Active Member
Indeed, literal translations. These versions translate the literal meaning of (most) words in Scripture (they still use baptize (a transliterated, not translated word), but that is for another discussion), but they do not usually take into account the contextual meanings. The verse in question, in Revelation, is dealing with spiritual matter primarily. It does not specify, but makes clear in the context, that we will all be spiritual beings at judgement, no longer residing within the physical tents in which we live now. But we will still be distinguished and distinguishable from the angelic beings in Heaven. This verse does not say that the lake of fire was made for Satan and his FOLLOWERS. It says it was made for Satan and his ANGELS.
"To a degree", this is true, but we are not angels. All angels are messengers. But not all messengers are angels.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
It is wrong.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
A single angel
FreeInChrist
Active Member
You are human are you not? Does this include you?
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