Deliverance from Calvinism

[brightfame52]

The truths of Tulip are the foundation for the Gospel of God's Grace! If they are not formulated in the Gospel, we have no Gospel of God's Grace!

 

[Keith]

It's real easy to see Calvinism for what it really is.

In an effort to support their theory, Calvinists will quote part of Ephesians 1:4. The first part of the verse says, “[H]e hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world.” However, the entire verse reads: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love.

This verse says nothing about being chosen for Heaven or Hell. It speaks of how God has chosen for Christians to live. Calvinists also like to quote part of John 15:16, “Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you. …” The entire verse reads: Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. Again, this verse says nothing about being chosen for Heaven or Hell. It says God has chosen that Christians should bear fruit. The fruit of a Christian is other Christians.

Proverbs 11:30 says: The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise. In Acts 10:34, the Bible says that “God is no respecter of persons.” That means your mother, your little boy, your daughter, your wife, and all the children in the church nursery and you are included when God closed out His Bible with the invitation, “… whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely” (Revelation 22:17). The Bible also says in 2 Peter 3:9: [God] is … not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

First Timothy 2:4 refers to God as such: Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. Calvinist teachers go to great lengths to destroy the plain meaning of this verse. They say “all” doesn’t mean “all.” There is no end of their interpretations of this verse using their, “This is what the Bible says, but this is what it means” system.

CALVINISM TEACHES SOME PEOPLE ARE PREDESTINED BY GOD TO BURN IN HELL !

God has His controlling hand on the affairs of men. He selects individuals like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and David as instruments to do certain things. God chose the nation of Israel for a specific purpose. God has chosen people like John the Baptist for a special purpose.

TO TEACH THAT GOD HAS PREDESTINED ANYONE TO BE BORN ONLY TO BURN IN HELL FOR ETERNITY IS HERESY!

Ephesians 1:3-4 says: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love.

Romans 8:29-30 says: For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. To accept Calvin’s position, we would have to translate this verse to say, “Whom he did unconditionally elect, he also unconditionally elected.”

Jesus said in Revelation 22:13: I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Obviously then, He knows the beginning and the end. Simply put, God knows everything! You don’t have to make something spooky about the subject of God’s foreknowledge, unless you are a Calvinist trying to support Calvinism. God, in His foreknowledge, knows who will trust Jesus Christ as Savior; however, that does not mean He has to make the decision for them to be saved.

Bob Kirkland

 

[brightfame52]

If denotes the condition by which you will be saved.

No that's a works salvation.

 

[civic]

The truths of Tulip are the foundation for the Gospel of God's Grace! If they are not formulated in the Gospel, we have no Gospel of God's Grace!

Name a single fruit of tulip with scripture

 

[brightfame52]

Name a single fruit of tulip with scripture

I never heard of that, but as you know I have a thread on that

 

[Angelo]

Here is a simple and scriptural way to understand if a person has a “stronghold” in there mind whereby they can’t see the truth of the scripture because their “stronghold” is exalting itself against the knowledge of the truth.

Ask this question:

Please answer with a simple yes or no.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9

If denotes the condition by which you will be saved.

Question:
Based on this scripture, do you believe that confessing Jesus as Lord is required for an unsaved person to become saved?


If they have a stronghold which leans on their belief system over the truth of the scripture, they won’t answer but perpetually dodge the question.

Some may even say no.



A stronghold is a fortified belief system that is formed in the mind by a doctrine of demons in which the mind is prevented from receiving the knowledge of the truth.

In short, a stronghold is a lie the devil has programmed you to believe.


For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, 2 Corinthians 10:4-5


Notice that strongholds are associated with, “arguments”, that exalt itself against the knowledge (truth) of God.

I think we all can agree, when discussing scripture with Calvinists, there is much “arguments”.


Those pesky demons that carefully constructed that false belief system in their mind usually starts attacking those who are bringing the truth of God’s word to bear against the “stronghold” of lies that person has been programmed to believe.


This scripture is a good fit for this issue.


Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons. 1 Timothy 4:1


That’s what we are facing, deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons.


Let’s pray and use our weapons of truth, to skillfully to set these people free.



Keep up the good fight of faith.

After the fall, after universal and disabling depravity, God spoke to Cain in Genesis 4:6–7, when Cain apparently brought less than the best he had as a gift in worship of God and God rejected his gift:

So the Lord said to Cain, Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door.

The natural way to read this is that God gave Cain two alternatives and the freedom to choose between them. To be sure, our freedom lies only within the boundaries God sets; it is God who gives and defines freedom.

The objection to this is that Cain was depraved—spiritually dead and deaf and blind and bound—and could not respond to God’s offer to choose submission to him. I say that when God said “If you do well,” shows me Cain was able to respond positively in spite of his depravity, and that the biblical account makes the best sense in this light.

God was offering Cain the way to forgiveness and life: to submit to God or reject him. Tragically, he expressed his choice in spilling the blood of his innocent brother, whose offering God had accepted.

Freedom is a fierce thing as compared to the bondage found in Calvinism!

"Jesus came to set us free" He wants us to be free, “It is for freedom that Christ has set us free.” Galatians 5:1

 

[civic]

After the fall, after universal and disabling depravity, God spoke to Cain in Genesis 4:6–7, when Cain apparently brought less than the best he had as a gift in worship of God and God rejected his gift:

So the Lord said to Cain, Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door.

The natural way to read this is that God gave Cain two alternatives and the freedom to choose between them. To be sure, our freedom lies only within the boundaries God sets; it is God who gives and defines freedom.

The objection to this is that Cain was depraved—spiritually dead and deaf and blind and bound—and could not respond to God’s offer to choose submission to him. I say that when God said “If you do well,” shows me Cain was able to respond positively in spite of his depravity, and that the biblical account makes the best sense in this light.

God was offering Cain the way to forgiveness and life: to submit to God or reject him. Tragically, he expressed his choice in spilling the blood of his innocent brother, whose offering God had accepted.

Freedom is a fierce thing as compared to the bondage found in Calvinism!

"Jesus came to set us free" He wants us to be free, “It is for freedom that Christ has set us free.” Galatians 5:1

That would make God out to be a liar if that were true since God actually warned him and gave him a choice.

And the irony is God spoke directly to him and Adam to after they signed and supposedly were totally depraved and dead.

Nothing but a smokescreen protecting a false narrative, doctrine.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Ok so back to delivered from Calvinism.

Even Calvinists get derived into a more palatable form of Calvinism.

British Baptists

The softening of strict Calvinism among British Baptists in the late eighteenth century began with the move away from the high Calvinism of leaders such as John Gill and John Brine and the move toward new leaders such as Andrew Fuller, John Collett Ryland, John Ryland Jr., and Robert Hall of Arnesby. In contrast to the strict Particular Baptists, these young leaders, spurred on by the revival fervor of the day, emphasized the free offer of the gospel and the death of Christ for all people, yet they were still Calvinist in their espousal of unconditional election and irresistible grace. Andrew Fuller even forged a friendship and made common cause with Dan Taylor, the principal leader of the New Connexion of General Baptists. While the two friends debated controverted points of doctrine, the cordial spirit between them differed from the more hostile tension between Fuller and the hyper-Calvinists and Antinomians.

This softening gave way to full-blown dissent from orthodox Calvinism among the British Baptists as the nineteenth century progressed, to the point where W. T. Whitley could say in 1928, “The great mass of Baptists no longer attend to the question at all.… For the majority the truth or falsity of Calvinism is a vanished condition.” As Gerald Parsons said of English Nonconformity in general, “The decline of the old high Calvinism” exemplified “the impact of the evangelical revival upon the Old Dissent.… Old theological distinctions between Arminians and Calvinists, or between varieties of Calvinism, became less central and less decisive in shaping the pattern of nineteenth-century Nonconformity.” This was seen in the revised constitution of the loosely united Baptist Union in Great Britain in 1832.

The erosion of Calvinism among British Baptists is evidenced by the formation of new Particular Baptist associations that separated from the mainstream Baptist movement in Great Britain. In the 1840s, for example, groups of strict Particular Baptists organized new associations such as the New London Strict Association (1845) and the New Suffolk and Norfolk Association of Strict Baptists (1848). They formed these new associations to separate from Baptists who were de-emphasizing Calvinism in their alliances with General Baptists. These associations even tried to establish a national strict Particular Baptist body but failed. Robert Torbet explained that in the 1840s London was the center of this controversy between stricter and milder Calvinists, but it moved north in the 1850s. Some congregations, for example, separated from the Lancashire and Cheshire associations, stating that the associations were “on the ‘down-grade’ from strict Calvinism and close communion.”

One sees the same trend among Scottish Baptists from the 1840s through the 1860s. Calvinism began declining among Scottish Baptists just as it was declining in the Reformed churches generally. This deterioration began to occur in the 1840s through the influence of Baptist Union of Scotland leaders such as Francis Johnston, William Landels, and Thomas Milner, who were influenced by the theology and practices of Charles Finney. The Baptist Union ceased to exist in 1853, but by the time it was relaunched in 1869, Talbot explained, Calvinism’s ascendancy “was now over. An era in which evangelical Arminianism predominated was now about to take place.”

The decline of Calvinism in Great Britain continued into the late nineteenth century as Baptists moved toward a more formal union of their Calvinist and Arminian branches in 1891. The desuetude of Calvinist orthodoxy among English Baptists is illustrated no more vividly than in an 1868 article in the General Baptist Magazine, which celebrated the fact that the Particular Baptists had “become wiser” in shedding their strong Calvinism:

There is no need now that we should be distinct from the other section of the Baptist body. The extravagant Calvinism of years gone by in Particular Baptist churches has been discarded or moderated and rendered agreeable. Our existence has been necessary as a protest. Our existence now is necessary as a friend and an ally. Our views of the atonement are held in so-called Particular Baptist churches, and a moderate Calvinism exists even among our own. Now we are really one with the other body. General and Particular are words which might be disused. Our greater brother has become wiser; we need not now protest but may walk and prosper with him.

British Baptists were taking part in a broader deterioration of Calvinism in other denominations. In 1876, for example, the General Baptist Magazine noted the same slippage among the Independents (Congregationalists), citing R. W. Dale to the effect that “Calvinism is almost an obsolete theory amongst Independents,” and that “the doctrine of ‘general redemption’ … is generally accepted and preached amongst them.” By 1891 the Particular and General Baptists came together in formal union, and, as Robert Torbet said, “only a few Baptist churches in the northern counties still remained outside the fellowship; they were either Scotch or Strict Particular Baptists.”


J. Matthew Pinson

Spurgeon (1834-1892) changed dramatically over his lifetime. Many people do not realize this because they only focus on his early writings. There are several paths in history than come to the same conclusion.

Wakefield and Wesley's relationship and the "Great Awakening" impact in England also affected the turn away from the strictest version of Calvinism. Many Baptist still generally agree upon Perseverance of the Saints that morphed somewhat into "Eternal Security" among different "flavors" of Baptists.

The "Great Awakenings" impact put many different conflicting Christian doctrinal position together in the success of such "evangelical" outreaches. Success sometimes makes "strange bedfellows".

 

[praise_yeshua]

It's real easy to see Calvinism for what it really is.

In an effort to support their theory, Calvinists will quote part of Ephesians 1:4. The first part of the verse says, “[H]e hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world.” However, the entire verse reads: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love.

This verse says nothing about being chosen for Heaven or Hell. It speaks of how God has chosen for Christians to live. Calvinists also like to quote part of John 15:16, “Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you. …” The entire verse reads: Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. Again, this verse says nothing about being chosen for Heaven or Hell. It says God has chosen that Christians should bear fruit. The fruit of a Christian is other Christians.

Proverbs 11:30 says: The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise. In Acts 10:34, the Bible says that “God is no respecter of persons.” That means your mother, your little boy, your daughter, your wife, and all the children in the church nursery and you are included when God closed out His Bible with the invitation, “… whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely” (Revelation 22:17). The Bible also says in 2 Peter 3:9: [God] is … not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

First Timothy 2:4 refers to God as such: Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. Calvinist teachers go to great lengths to destroy the plain meaning of this verse. They say “all” doesn’t mean “all.” There is no end of their interpretations of this verse using their, “This is what the Bible says, but this is what it means” system.

CALVINISM TEACHES SOME PEOPLE ARE PREDESTINED BY GOD TO BURN IN HELL !

God has His controlling hand on the affairs of men. He selects individuals like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and David as instruments to do certain things. God chose the nation of Israel for a specific purpose. God has chosen people like John the Baptist for a special purpose.

TO TEACH THAT GOD HAS PREDESTINED ANYONE TO BE BORN ONLY TO BURN IN HELL FOR ETERNITY IS HERESY!

Ephesians 1:3-4 says: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love.

Romans 8:29-30 says: For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. To accept Calvin’s position, we would have to translate this verse to say, “Whom he did unconditionally elect, he also unconditionally elected.”

Jesus said in Revelation 22:13: I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Obviously then, He knows the beginning and the end. Simply put, God knows everything! You don’t have to make something spooky about the subject of God’s foreknowledge, unless you are a Calvinist trying to support Calvinism. God, in His foreknowledge, knows who will trust Jesus Christ as Savior; however, that does not mean He has to make the decision for them to be saved.

Bob Kirkland

I'd say that God doesn't know my sin. He told us that He would remove them from us and forget them. I believe that God is powerful enough to do just that. Forget them.

If you can grasp this fact, it will change what anyone believes about "knowing everything".

 

[brightfame52]

If you do well,”

So does that mean people are saved by doing well?

 

[praise_yeshua]

So does that mean people are saved by doing well?

Paul dealt with this....

Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Gal 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

 

[brightfame52]

Paul dealt with this....

Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Gal 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

Yes but he's not writing to the world in General but to the House of God. You don't become saved by doing well sir or mam. He is giving instructions to the household of Faith, read up a few verses


Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

5 For every man shall bear his own burden.

10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

Talking about cherry picking verses, you just did it

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yes but he's not writing to the world in General but to the House of God. You don't become saved by doing well sir or mam. He is giving instructions to the household of Faith, read up a few verses


Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

5 For every man shall bear his own burden.

10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

Talking about cherry picking verses, you just did it

People abandon faith in Christ. That is exactly what Paul is referencing. Abandoning Christ.

You will reap if you faint not. Just FYI. Satan keep not his first estate.

Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

I know you think you're "keep from such things" but several Scriptures teach us otherwise. I do believe it is rare that a saved person abandons their faith but it does happen. I wish it didn't.

There have been people who sincerely praised and loved Jesus Christ until they found out things about Christ they didn't like anymore.

 

[Presby02]

Jumping from the pan into the fire. Your goose still gets cooked.

Let is lnow

 

[brightfame52]

People abandon faith in Christ. That is exactly what Paul is referencing. Abandoning Christ.

Rabbit trail

 

[Presby02]

what is thatt ?

My point about coherence.

 

[Theophilus]

Let is lnow

ok glad to hear it.

 

[civic]

Let is lnow

Huh

 

[praise_yeshua]

Rabbit trail

Nope.Spot on.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Huh

Grammar....