Deity of Christ but not Trinitarian

[Runningman]

Just to make sure you're accepting what the Scriptures teach. You can read this for yourself.

Num 21:5 And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread.

Notice there was NO BREAD.... and NO WATER....

Yet there WAS this "light bread" that they hated.

Just to make sure you’re accepting what the Scriptures teach. Please reply in the affirmative you agree with Numbers 11:7-9.

Jesus compared himself to this very manna. They had to go get it, refine it, and after it was edible they could eat it. Same with Jesus. You must choose to trust and obey God’s messiah. That’s why he taught such things and compared himself to the manna.

 

[mikesw]

Just to make sure you’re accepting what the Scriptures teach. Please reply in the affirmative you agree with Numbers 11:7-9.

Jesus compared himself to this very manna. They had to go get it, refine it, and after it was edible they could eat it. Same with Jesus. You must choose to trust and obey God’s messiah. That’s why he taught such things and compared himself to the manna.

Indeed there are people who cannot comprehend analogies. You seem to be running into that limitation. Maybe this is the problem happening with many people around here who cannot comprehend the divinity of Christ in the Godhead.

 

[Runningman]

Indeed there are people who cannot comprehend analogies. You seem to be running into that limitation. Maybe this is the problem happening with many people around here who cannot comprehend the divinity of Christ in the Godhead.

I am just comparing Jesus to the manna just as Jesus compared himself to the manna. Why do you not believe?

 

[Runningman]

his divinity in the Godhead.

Why do you believe that?

 

[Runningman]

I guess that is the best someone can do who does not know the work of picking up food off the ground all around them and the fake doctrine of works of the law that Jews followed.

They worked for the manna isn't a fake doctrine. Working for God isn't a fake doctrine either. Jesus directly taught this in John 6.

John 6
28Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?”
29Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”

 

[7xLightray]

How come no one believing like you has been able to produce a coherent argument?

This argument would convince none!
No one to this date has shown my doctrine to be in error, but you claim this. All one has to do is read the thread "Your Views on The Trinity," to know the true facts of this claim.
And, how is the "only begotten," or only literal son, or the only true image of the father/Father, incoherent? Or, what do you find incoherent about my doctrine?

Also, it is not particularly salvific to fail to recognize the Trinitarian doctrine individually.

It was taught to me by the first church I was taken to, I had no reason to disbelieve them.
And, truly, truly, it is not salvific, at all, to worship the Trinity! Rev 14:9-11.

It seems it would be less so to hold that when proposing a non-Trinitarian concept of Christ.

Why?

Just so I can be understand some views that may fit a narrow theme, I am wondering who has found the divinity of Christ to be true but not within the Trinitarian concept. Any takers?

What was the purpose of your original post, again??

 

[Runningman]

Sorry no

Christ is the person here

Ephesians 3:19 (UASV) — 19 and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God.

compare

Colossians 1:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Romans 8:10 (KJV 1900) — 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Jesus' name isn't mentioned in the context. Christ isn't Jesus' name. I understand the word Christ carries a lot of significance with it, but others are cristos in the New Testament, not only Jesus. There are also many messiahs in the Old Testament. It's Scripture. Why do you not want anyone else to have the anointing of love from the Father? You don't want the fullness of God to be in you also?

 

[Runningman]

Sorry no

Christ is the person here

Ephesians 3:19 (UASV) — 19 and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God.

compare

Colossians 1:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Romans 8:10 (KJV 1900) — 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

I thought of a passage that will really help you understand this. Paul directly taught about having the christ anointing in Ephesians 4.

Paul went around the Roman empire teaching people they can fully mature in their anointing.

Ephesians 4
13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God, as we mature to the full measure of the stature of Christ.

 

[mikesw]

They worked for the manna isn't a fake doctrine. Working for God isn't a fake doctrine either. Jesus directly taught this in John 6.

John 6
28Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?”
29Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”

Great. this is another simple logic to follow. Jesus denounces works, especially works of the law, which were what people were doing to try for righteousness (Rom 9:30-33). Jesus essentially said that works are not proper, they need to trust Christ as the Savoir and Messiah. If you can understand this, then you have a start at understanding more complex approaches in scripture. You should use this as a caution about your understanding in other areas.

 

[mikesw]

I am just comparing Jesus to the manna just as Jesus compared himself to the manna. Why do you not believe?

You will have to work on techniques to understand analogies.

 

[Runningman]

Great. this is another simple logic to follow. Jesus denounces works, especially works of the law, which were what people were doing to try for righteousness (Rom 9:30-33). Jesus essentially said that works are not proper, they need to trust Christ as the Savoir and Messiah. If you can understand this, then you have a start at understanding more complex approaches in scripture. You should use this as a caution about your understanding in other areas.

They asked what to do and Jesus told them what the work God has for them is. Don’t you see that’s what happened in John 6:28-29? God didn’t make them gather and refine the manna and He isn’t make them believe in Jesus if they don’t want to. God will allow people to die in their sins, or from starvation, if they so wish.

 

[mikesw]

They asked what to do and Jesus told them what the work God has for them is. Don’t you see that’s what happened in John 6:28-29? God didn’t make them gather and refine the manna and He isn’t make them believe in Jesus if they don’t want to. God will allow people to die in their sins, or from starvation, if they so wish.

Let me repeat this. They asked because they were seeking works of the law to be justified. Jesus told them they do not have to do works, they need to believe God sent Jesus in his divinity. Believing Christ is not actually a work of the law, as you should realize. They were not asking for a work to do that they might choose not to do. They were seeking what God wants them to do to be righteous. This is not a tricky couple verses. But if you do not understand something so simple, it is hard to get you to recognize analogies like the manna.

 

[mikesw]

This argument would convince none!
No one to this date has shown my doctrine to be in error, but you claim this. All one has to do is read the thread "Your Views on The Trinity," to know the true facts of this claim.
And, how is the "only begotten," or only literal son, or the only true image of the father/Father, incoherent? Or, what do you find incoherent about my doctrine?


It was taught to me by the first church I was taken to, I had no reason to disbelieve them.
And, truly, truly, it is not salvific, at all, to worship the Trinity! Rev 14:9-11.


Why?

What was the purpose of your original post, again??

I think you mention Rev 14:9-11 with no relation to the discussion.

 

[7xLightray]

I think you mention Rev 14:9-11 with no relation to the discussion.

I will answer, and explain how "Rev 14:19-11" is relevant to "..it is not salvific, at all, to worship the Trinity!," and, if need be, "..it is not particularly salvific to fail to recognize the Trinitarian doctrine individually," if you answer my question in post#46 "..what do you find incoherent about my doctrine?," and show my doctrine to be incoherent (as you have claimed), using God's word, in truth, in reality, clearly, so that a 7th grader could understand.

 

[mikesw]

I will answer, and explain how "Rev 14:19-11" is relevant to "..it is not salvific, at all, to worship the Trinity!," and, if need be, "..it is not particularly salvific to fail to recognize the Trinitarian doctrine individually," if you answer my question in post#46 "..what do you find incoherent about my doctrine?," and show my doctrine to be incoherent (as you have claimed), using God's word, in truth, in reality, clearly, so that a 7th grader could understand.

I have not reviewed your doctrine, at least as much as I recall. I spoke of others who tried to argue against Christ's divinity.

 

[TomL]

I thought of a passage that will really help you understand this. Paul directly taught about having the christ anointing in Ephesians 4.

Paul went around the Roman empire teaching people they can fully mature in their anointing.

Ephesians 4
13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God, as we mature to the full measure of the stature of Christ.

Um it seems to me you have not considered much of the context of the text

https://berean-apologetics.communit...f-christ-but-not-trinitarian.2031/post-112887

Nor the position of Christ in the church

 

[TomL]

Jesus' name isn't mentioned in the context. Christ isn't Jesus' name. I understand the word Christ carries a lot of significance with it, but others are cristos in the New Testament, not only Jesus. There are also many messiahs in the Old Testament. It's Scripture. Why do you not want anyone else to have the anointing of love from the Father? You don't want the fullness of God to be in you also?

Context

Ephesians 4:1–15 (NASB 2020) — 1 Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, urge you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, 2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, 3 being diligent to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you also were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. 7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 8 Therefore it says, “WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH, HE LED CAPTIVE THE CAPTIVES, AND HE GAVE GIFTS TO PEOPLE.” 9 (Now this expression, “He ascended,” what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.) 11 And He gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelists, some as pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the building up of the body of Christ; 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. 14 As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of people, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; 15 but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head,

Is rather clear a person is meant who is the head of the church

Other anointed ones or messiahs do not fit the context and certainly the text speaking of a non personal anointing

 

[Runningman]

Let me repeat this. They asked because they were seeking works of the law to be justified. Jesus told them they do not have to do works, they need to believe God sent Jesus in his divinity. Believing Christ is not actually a work of the law, as you should realize. They were not asking for a work to do that they might choose not to do. They were seeking what God wants them to do to be righteous. This is not a tricky couple verses. But if you do not understand something so simple, it is hard to get you to recognize analogies like the manna.

That's not what he told them in Matthew 19.

Matthew 19
16Just then a man came up to Jesus and inquired, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to obtain eternal life?”

17“Why do you ask Me about what is good?”e Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

18“Which ones?” the man asked.

Jesus answered, “ ‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not bear false witness, 19honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself.’”

 

[Runningman]

Um it seems to me you have not considered much of the context of the text

https://berean-apologetics.communit...f-christ-but-not-trinitarian.2031/post-112887

Nor the position of Christ in the church

Context

Ephesians 4:1–15 (NASB 2020) — 1 Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, urge you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, 2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, 3 being diligent to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you also were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. 7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 8 Therefore it says, “WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH, HE LED CAPTIVE THE CAPTIVES, AND HE GAVE GIFTS TO PEOPLE.” 9 (Now this expression, “He ascended,” what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.) 11 And He gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelists, some as pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the building up of the body of Christ; 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. 14 As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of people, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; 15 but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head,

Is rather clear a person is meant who is the head of the church

Other anointed ones or messiahs do not fit the context and certainly the text speaking of a non personal anointing

Not sure what your point is since I have already read these and disagree with your assessment, but speaking of Jesus' position in the church, he is squarely below God.

1 Corinthians 11
3But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

 

[TomL]

Not sure what your point is since I have already read these and disagree with your assessment, but speaking of Jesus' position in the church, he is squarely below God.

1 Corinthians 11
3But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

The point is quite clearly Christ is a reference to Jesus Christ a person and not an anointing

As was stated

Ephesians 4:1–15 (NASB 2020) — 1 Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, urge you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, 2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, 3 being diligent to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you also were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. 7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 8 Therefore it says, “WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH, HE LED CAPTIVE THE CAPTIVES, AND HE GAVE GIFTS TO PEOPLE.” 9 (Now this expression, “He ascended,” what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.) 11 And He gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelists, some as pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the building up of the body of Christ; 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. 14 As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of people, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; 15 but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head,

Is rather clear a person is meant who is the head of the church

Other anointed ones or messiahs do not fit the context and certainly the text is not speaking of a non personal anointing