Defining the "law"

[praise_yeshua]

"Moral law"? "Ceremonial Law"? "Judicial law"?

Are there really any such distinctions within the "law of Moses"?

Jesus never made such a distinct. Neither did any of the apostles. None. No such distinction from the prophets.

Such is nothing more than false man made doctrianal distinctions that are used to EXCUSE the "boasters" lack of "keeping the law". It is impossible to actually practice the "law of Moses".

Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

 

[Soyeong]

"Moral law"? "Ceremonial Law"? "Judicial law"?

Are there really any such distinctions within the "law of Moses"?

Jesus never made such a distinct. Neither did any of the apostles. None. No such distinction from the prophets.

Such is nothing more than false man made doctrianal distinctions that are used to EXCUSE the "boasters" lack of "keeping the law".

You almost made it through a post that I completely agree with.

It is impossible to actually practice the "law of Moses".

In Deuteronomy 30:11-14, it says that the Law of Moses is not too difficult to keep. Moreover, there are examples of people who kept the Law of Moses, such as those in Joshua 22:1-3 and Luke 1:5-6. Likewise, in Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments, and in Revelation 22:14, those who kept God's commandments are given the right to eat from the Tree of Life.

Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

If someone breaks any law and becomes a lawbreaker, then they need to repent and returning to obedience to God's law, which is precisely what James was encouraging them to do.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You almost made it through a post that I completely agree with.


In Deuteronomy 30:11-14, it says that the Law of Moses is not too difficult to keep. Moreover, there are examples of people who kept the Law of Moses, such as those in Joshua 22:1-3 and Luke 1:5-6. Likewise, in Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments, and in Revelation 22:14, those who kept God's commandments are given the right to eat from the Tree of Life.


If someone breaks any law and becomes a lawbreaker, then they need to repent and returning to obedience to God's law, which is precisely what James was encouraging them to do.

So why are you conflating the law of Moses with the commandments of God? The law of Moses didn't exist for thousands of years of humanity? Jesus contrasted the law of Moses with His commandments. Why do you you not recognize the contrast.

 

[Truther]

The Law is understood by Jesus and the Apostles as every single OT command given to God from the garden to Mal.

Modernists have parted it out like an old car at the junkyard.

They sell parts and melt down what they want.

They categorized it into 3 sections of parts but resell the moral parts and melt down the judicial and ceremonial parts.

But, since homosexuality and adultery cannot be the death penalty and are moral Laws, they melt those down as impossible to enforce along with half of the other moral Law parts.

The end result is a rat rod religion...LOL.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The Law is understood by Jesus and the Apostles as every single OT command given to God from the garden to Mal.

Modernists have parted it out like an old car at the junkyard.

They sell parts and melt down what they want.

They categorized it into 3 sections of parts but resell the moral parts and melt down the judicial and ceremonial parts.

But, since homosexuality and adultery cannot be the death penalty and are moral Laws, they melt those down as impossible to enforce along with half of the other moral Law parts.

The end result is a rat rod religion...LOL.

Not the law of Moses. Moses was the mediator of said law. Which is being ignored. God wasn't that mediator. Moses was.

 

[Soyeong]

So why are you conflating the law of Moses with the commandments of God? The law of Moses didn't exist for thousands of years of humanity? Jesus contrasted the law of Moses with His commandments. Why do you you not recognize the contrast.

In Deuteronomy 5:31-33, Moses wrote down everything that God commanded him without departing from it, everything in the Mosaic Law it is a commandment of God. Moreover, verses like Nehemiah 8:1-8, Ezra 7:6-12, and Luke 2:22-23 all refer to the Law of Moses as being the Law of God. All of God's righteous laws were eaten, so the way to act in accordance with God's righteousness existed before God gave instructions for how to do that. Likewise, sin was in the world before the law was given (Romans 5:13), so people were able to sin by acting in a way that is contrary to God's nature before He instructed them not to do that. So there were no actions that became righteous or sinful when the Mosaic Law was given, but rather it revealed what has always been and will always be the way to do that. For example, it was a sinful to commit adultery in Genesis 39:9, long before the Mosaic Covenant was made, during it, it remains sinful after it has become obsolete, and that will never change. If the way to act in accordance with God's righteousness were to ever change, then God's righteousness would not be eternal. Jesus is one with the Father, so he didn't contrast the Law of Moses with his commandments, but rather everything he commanded was in accordance with it.

 

[praise_yeshua]

In Deuteronomy 5:31-33, Moses wrote down everything that God commanded him without departing from it, everything in the Mosaic Law it is a commandment of God. Moreover, verses like Nehemiah 8:1-8, Ezra 7:6-12, and Luke 2:22-23 all refer to the Law of Moses as being the Law of God. All of God's righteous laws were eaten, so the way to act in accordance with God's righteousness existed before God gave instructions for how to do that. Likewise, sin was in the world before the law was given (Romans 5:13), so people were able to sin by acting in a way that is contrary to God's nature before He instructed them not to do that. So there were no actions that became righteous or sinful when the Mosaic Law was given, but rather it revealed what has always been and will always be the way to do that. For example, it was a sinful to commit adultery in Genesis 39:9, long before the Mosaic Covenant was made, during it, it remains sinful after it has become obsolete, and that will never change. If the way to act in accordance with God's righteousness were to ever change, then God's righteousness would not be eternal. Jesus is one with the Father, so he didn't contrast the Law of Moses with his commandments, but rather everything he commanded was in accordance with it.

More conflation and bloviating. This is so horribly convoluted that I don't know where to start. You are living in a fantasy. You're making an idol of the law. Your view of Christ is identical with your view of Moses, you present a theology that doesn't need Christ. You have faith in Moses.

 

[Truther]

Not the law of Moses. Moses was the mediator of said law. Which is being ignored. God wasn't that mediator. Moses was.

The Law began in the garden.

Man self destructed ever since because of disobeying it.

Moses' Law was called that because he got it in writing.

He was the administrator of the Law as it progressed from the garden into 615 plus commandments and counting unto the end of Mal.

Paul per 1 Cor 15 said the Prophets were the Law.

Jesus said Psalms was the Law.

The Law per the OT was the entire 39 books.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The Law began in the garden.

Man self destructed ever since because of disobeying it.

Moses' Law was called that because he got it in writing.

He was the administrator of the Law as it progressed from the garden into 615 plus commandments and counting unto the end of Mal.

Paul per 1 Cor 15 said the Prophets were the Law.

Jesus said Psalms was the Law.

The Law per the OT was the entire 39 books.

So you've found the phrase law of prophets and law of psalms in the Scripture? Please share....

Can I asked if you killed your children when they cursed you? I didn't read those words from the Prophets or Psalms

 

[Truther]

So you've found the phrase law of prophets and law of psalms in the Scripture? Please share....

Can I asked if you killed your children when they cursed you? I didn't read those words from the Prophets or Psalms

Check it out....


Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?(Psalms)

1 Cor 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.(Isaiah).

The Law encompasses all the OT.

It is impossible to keep.

I keep the Law of the Spirit....

 

[Truther]

Modernists debunk Jesus and Paul.

 

[Soyeong]

More conflation and bloviating. This is so horribly convoluted that I don't know where to start. You are living in a fantasy. You're making an idol of the law. Your view of Christ is identical with your view of Moses, you present a theology that doesn't need Christ. You have faith in Moses.

More handwaving to avoid addressing what I said. I have not made an idol of the law and it is absurd to think that I can commit idolatry by thinking that God's command against idolatry should be obeyed. I never said that my view of Christ is identical with my view of Moses. I didn't say that I have faith in Moses. You excel at burning straw man rather than than addressing what I've actually said. I have faith in God by having faith in what He has instructed and it is contradictory to think that God is trustworthy, but that what He has instructed is not.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Check it out....


Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?(Psalms)

1 Cor 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.(Isaiah).

The Law encompasses all the OT.

It is impossible to keep.

I keep the Law of the Spirit....

I'm well aware of both of your references. What they do not say is the "law of the Prophet" and etc. You are introducing that perspective with your comments..

Jesus specifically said "law of Moses" which is distinct aspect of the law you're referencing. There is no parallel reference to law of the Prophets..

 

[Soyeong]

Check it out....


Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?(Psalms)

1 Cor 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.(Isaiah).

The Law encompasses all the OT.

It is impossible to keep.

I keep the Law of the Spirit....

In Deuteronomy 30:11-16, it says that God's law is not too difficult for us to keep, and in Romans 10:5-8, it references that passage as the word of faith that we proclaim.

God is not in disagreement with Himself about which laws we should follow, but rather the Law of Christ is the same as the Law of the Spirit and the Law of the Father, which was given to Moses. In Romans 7:25-8:2, Paul equated the Law of Moses with the Law of the Spirit by contrasting them both with the law of sin and death, and in Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh, who are enemies of God, who refuse to submit to the Law of Moses. In Galatians 5:19-23, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Law of Moses, while all of the fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God's nature that are in accordance with it. In John 16:13, the Spirit has the role of leading us in truth, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Law of Moses, and in Psalms 119:142, the Mosaic Law is truth. In John 16:8, the Spirit has the role of convicting us sin, and in Romans 3:20, the Mosaic Law is how we know what sin is. In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been to those who obey God. In Romans 2:25-29, the way to recognize that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to the Law of Moses, which is the same way to tell for a Jew (Deuteronomy 30:6) and circumcision of the heart is a matter of the Spirit, which is in contrast with Acts 7:51-53, where those who have uncircumcised hearts resist the Spirit and do not obey the Law of Moses.

 

[praise_yeshua]

More handwaving to avoid addressing what I said. I have not made an idol of the law and it is absurd to think that I can commit idolatry by thinking that God's command against idolatry should be obeyed. I never said that my view of Christ is identical with my view of Moses. I didn't say that I have faith in Moses. You excel at burning straw man rather than than addressing what I've actually said. I have faith in God by having faith in what He has instructed and it is contradictory to think that God is trustworthy, but that what He has instructed is not.

I remind you again. Just because you did not say something doesn't mean that your theology does not teach it. It does. You're like a little child who insists they didn't steal the cookie in their hand because they didn't say they stole the cookie in their hand. This is such a childish argument I'm questioning just how old you actually are. Surely a grown man doesn't make such silly claims. Yet you have repeatedly used this type of defense for days. It is much like the childish argument you made concerning not knowing what hyper dispensationism was yet insisting you never said you did over a simple word change I made that meant the same exact thing. It is maddening. Have it your way.

 

[Theophilus]

The law of Moses, or torah, specifically refers to the first five books of the Old Testament. The torah was God’s instruction specifically to His people, Israel. The law of Moses contained everything from the Ten Commandments to what to wear and what to eat. Everything spiritual as well as social and physical was included in this law.

By the time of Jesus, the Jews had added an elaborate system of “dos and don’ts” to the law that were used to determine a person’s standing with God. However, the law—including the Ten Commandments—was not an instrument of salvation. Rather, it was meant to point out sin and the need for a Savior, Jesus Christ the Lord.

According to Matthew 5:17, Jesus said, "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill." This statement gives insight into His mission and the character of God's Word.

 

[Soyeong]

I remind you again. Just because you did not say something doesn't mean that your theology does not teach it. It does. You're like a little child who insists they didn't steal the cookie in their hand because they didn't say they stole the cookie in their hand. This is such a childish argument I'm questioning just how old you actually are. Surely a grown man doesn't make such silly claims. Yet you have repeatedly used this type of defense for days. It is much like the childish argument you made concerning not knowing what hyper dispensationism was yet insisting you never said you did over a simple word change I made that meant the same exact thing. It is maddening. Have it your way.

It is not the case that what you said is close to my theology and that I denied that I said that because you didn't quote me word for word what I said, so I have not used that childish argument, but rather I denied that I said that because what you've said about my theology is not remotely close to what I believe. You could address the things that I've said and ask me to clarify whether I believe something, but you instead prefer to falsely make up ridiculous things about my theology that have nothing to do with my theology. There is a significant difference between me saying that I looked up Hyper Dispensationalism and you claiming that I said that I did not know that it existed or what it was. I thought maybe you knew something about it that I was missing because you have studied it more than I have, so I looked it up to double check that there was no validity to your claim as I thought.

 

[Soyeong]

The law of Moses, or torah, specifically refers to the first five books of the Old Testament. The torah was God’s instruction specifically to His people, Israel. The law of Moses contained everything from the Ten Commandments to what to wear and what to eat. Everything spiritual as well as social and physical was included in this law.

By the time of Jesus, the Jews had added an elaborate system of “dos and don’ts” to the law that were used to determine a person’s standing with God. However, the law—including the Ten Commandments—was not an instrument of salvation. Rather, it was meant to point out sin and the need for a Savior, Jesus Christ the Lord.

According to Matthew 5:17, Jesus said, "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill." This statement gives insight into His mission and the character of God's Word.

Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so while we do not earn our salvation as the result of having first obey it, living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is nevertheless intrinsically part of the concept of him saving us from not living in obedience to it. God's does not just point out sin, but teaches us how Jesus saves us from living in sin by teaching us to do what is holy, righteous, and good instead.