Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
And death has indeed come upon all for as in adam all sin and die .
But in CHRIST JESUS have we who do beleive been given life and life eternal .
Praise be to the glorious LORD .
Conservative America's False doctrine (1800's dispensationalism) Support of Israel
- Thread starter Titus
- Start date
But in CHRIST JESUS have we who do beleive been given life and life eternal .
Praise be to the glorious LORD .
jeremiah1five
Active Member
The Law of God/Moses are still applicable to born-again Christians.
To claim the Law has been "abolished" or "Obsolete" is to claim God is abolished and obsolete.
If one has God, then they are under God's Law. The Law instructs in everything from doctrine to instruction in righteousness. If you do not have the Law to guide your life and behavior as a child OF GOD, then you are left with leaning on your own understanding in the vanity of your mind. And this results in chaos.
The only part of the three-part Law of God that is no longer viable is the Ceremonial Law, which we all should know Jesus Christ fulfilled and died "once for all [Hebrews]" but the Social Law and the Moral Law still exists, however now and since the resurrection has changed from a "letter of the Law" perception to a "spirit of the Law" interpretation. No one can rightly exist without God's Law. "Thus, saith the LORD" will ever be the guiding access of living under God's economy.
To claim the Law has been "abolished" or "Obsolete" is to claim God is abolished and obsolete.
If one has God, then they are under God's Law. The Law instructs in everything from doctrine to instruction in righteousness. If you do not have the Law to guide your life and behavior as a child OF GOD, then you are left with leaning on your own understanding in the vanity of your mind. And this results in chaos.
The only part of the three-part Law of God that is no longer viable is the Ceremonial Law, which we all should know Jesus Christ fulfilled and died "once for all [Hebrews]" but the Social Law and the Moral Law still exists, however now and since the resurrection has changed from a "letter of the Law" perception to a "spirit of the Law" interpretation. No one can rightly exist without God's Law. "Thus, saith the LORD" will ever be the guiding access of living under God's economy.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
I am presenting what ideally is the truth of the matter in general. If you want to take yourself out of the equation that is entirely up to you. But by claiming you are not Hebraic proves my position as to who and why anyone who claims to be "Gentile" is saved and knows the Lord.
I have said many times that the Abrahamic Covenant is a Promise God gave to Abraham which was left unfulfilled and then through inheritance, passed to Issac, and the Jacob, and then to Jacob's twelve sons and their descendants. Later, as the prophecy God gave to Abraham in Genesis 15, that his seed will go into servitude in a land not theirs but will be delivered out of that condition by God who later issues a new covenant through Moses called the Mosaic Covenant. This covenant comes in three parts: Moral Law, Social Law, and Ceremonial Law.
For centuries the Mosaic Covenant bound the children of Jacob (Israel) to God and is treated as a supplement to the Abrahamic Covenant. A people rescued by God are now obligated to live under His Law, a structure that was not given to Abraham to the same degree as the Mosaic Covenant now presents. This covenant comes with blessings, and it comes with curses. It comes with blessings for obedience and curses for disobedience. And curses that come from disobedience is not directly attributed by acts of God for disobedience but because sin has its own consequences, curses come from as a reward for sin as natural course because sin was "baked in" due to our creation. We sin because we are sinners, we are not sinners because we sin. The first deals with the nature of the sinner, the other with the acts of the sinner. One deals with the Doctrine of Imputation; the other prevents the Doctrine of Imputation and sin is left unresolved.
By claiming you are not Hebraic and yet you claim to be "Christian" but not "under the Law" evidence that the Jews of the Diaspora who are the seed of Abraham and yet grew up as Gentiles by being raised in Gentile and Greek culture and not as a Hebrew, were indeed "aliens to the commonwealth of Israel" and "strangers to the covenant of promise" and were the offspring of Jew-Gentile unions - whether through conquest, rape, concubinage, slavery, or otherwise - these of Hebrew descendancy were not circumcised and yet the descendants of circumcised people in covenant with God, did become born-again and joined to Christ biologically as the Abraham Covenant was a covenant passed down through inheritance for being the seed of Abraham and heirs according to the promise, received the benefits of covenant merely by being descendant of Abraham no matter the dilution of DNA in Jew-Gentile unions. You are the exact 'specimen' of the Jew-Gentile offspring who received the benefits of covenant believing yourself to be "Gentile" and yet the covenant was declared to be inherited by his seed through declaration of God. As a "Gentile" and yet beneficiary of covenant blessings, of which one of those blessings is through marital covenant with God. You, as "Gentile Christian" know nothing of the Law because you grew up "Gentile" but if you are truly born-again by the Spirit joins you to covenant even if you are oblivious to covenant by virtue of the covenant which was joined to Abraham's loins and to his seed. In other words, like the mixed-race Jew who grew up as a Gentile, became born-again in the New Testament merely by this one fact: you are in covenant because someone in your ancestry was Hebrew-born and the covenant God joined to Abraham's seed through promise makes you an inheritor of that promise because covenant deemed it. You claim to be born-again but are Gentile is the same situation the Jews of the Diaspora found themselves being Jew through seed but grown up as Gentile and "strangers to the covenant of promise." The Abraham Covenant was established to be passed down through inheritance (Abraham did desire an heir and God accommodated him) travels through the seed-line and ends up with you means that if you are truly born of the Spirit would have to have had at least one Hebrew parent in your ancestry because you are possessing of one of the particulars of covenant, and that is simply being Abraham's seed and inheritor of being joined to that "Prophet like unto Moses."
jeremiah1five
Active Member
It is not, "we who do believe have been given life and life eternal", but "have been given life and life eternal and are made into one of those who believe."
Salvation comes before anything else for the everything else is given by being born-again first and then receiving the blessings of covenant and prophecy.
Titus
Active Member
Which law? The law of Moses or the law of Christ?
Romans 7:4,
- wherefore my brethren ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ...
Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
However being dead to the law does not mean sin is now accepted . Rather by the pure agape love
of GOD , of Christ we love what he loves and hate the evil of even our own flesh .
Many , not saying you , use the idea of being dead to the law as its now okay to sin . NOPE .
But yes we who are HIS are not UNDER the law , nor can a man justify himself BY the law .
Justification cometh by FAITH IN CHRIST , our righteousness cometh OF GOD in CHRIST .
And IN CHRIST we are HIS workmanship created unto good works , not evil works .
Just let us remember that as well my friend .
jeremiah1five
Active Member
The Law of Christ IS the Law of Moses.
What is the definition of the word transliterated into Greek from the original Hebrew?
Christ = Messias =
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, *but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Daniel 9:25–26.
Messiah: Strongs [#4899] from [#4886] (mashach); anointed; usually a consecrated person (as a king, priest, or saint)
Mashiach (Hebrew) = Anointed
Christos (Greek) = Anointed
Christ (English) = Anointed
Used in reference to [Holy] "Spirit" or "oil."
As Author of the Word of God we have the Holy Spirit. He Authored the Law of Moses and the Doctrines of "Christ" referring to the doctrines found Authored by the Holy Spirit referring to those doctrines found in the Holy Writ of the Faith. The Law of Christ means the Law of the Spirit, and this refers to the Law of Moses.
Christ is NOT Jesus' last name.
Titus
Active Member
If you are correct in your exegesis then according to Paul in Romans 7:4 we are dead to the law, which according to you is the same when stated in other passages as the law of Christ,
Galatians 6:2,
- bear ye one another's burdens and so fullfil the law of Christ
according to your doctrine this is the old testament law given to Moses.
Therefore Paul said we are dead to the law.
Since there is no new testament law given only one continuous law that is the old testament law of Moses.(your belief not mine)....
Paul said we are dead to the law, Romans 7:4.
So we end up following your explanation as being dead to law.
Conclusion: No one is under law today.
That is poor exegesis friend.
The truth of the matter, there is an old testament law given to the Jews aka the law of Moses.
And this old law was fulfilled meaning its purpose was accomplished in Christ Jesus.
Now Jesus has given us a better perfect law. A new testament law, that offers liberty, freedom from sin.
As Paul said we are dead to the old law of Moses, in his letter, Romans 7:4.
Paul also says in the same letter the old law of Moses has ended.
When Faith came the old law ended.
Romans 10:4,
- for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth
Paul does not agree with you.
Paul states repeatedly in Romans and the entire book of Galatians that no born again Christian is under the old testament law.
Every born again Christian is under the new testament law of Christ.
In your gospel we are under the old testament law of Moses.
Not so.
Pay attention to Paul make a clear distinction about the old law and the new.
Paul is teaching you there is more than one continuous law.
Romans 8:1-2,
- there is therefore now no condemnation to them which are IN Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit
- for the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus(new testament law of Christ)
HATH MADE ME FREE FROM the law of sin and death
Now if your being honest, you can clearly understand Paul is speaking of two laws!!!
The law of the Spirit of life IN Christ Jesus is Jesus' new testament lawl
This new law frees Jews like Paul from the old testament law of Moses aka the law of sin and death.
Heres more proof:
Why does Paul refer to being freed from the law of Moses?
Answer: because the law of Moses could not bring salvation to anyone who obeyed it!!!!
Listen to Paul, Acts 13:39 Justification means God has taken away your sins.
- and by Jesus all that believe are justified(saved) from all things
from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses
So Paul knows that as long as you are under the law of Moses you cannot be saved/justified.
Therefore that old law kept you under bondage/slave.
Paul says it again,
Galatians 5:1,
- Standfast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free(new testament gospel)
And be NOT entangled again with the yoke of bondage( old testament law of Moses)
Christ new testament law is the law of liberty because it liberates from the bondage of the old law.
Galatians 6:2,
- bear one another's burdens and so fullfil the law of Christ
The law of Christ is the perfect meaning complete law of liberty.
James 1:25,
- but Whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty and continues therein he being not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work this man shall be blessed in his deed
There is a law that puts a yoke of bondage on you.
and a new law that is perfect because it frees you, liberates you.
That yoke Paul speaks of is what is put on the necks of two beasts of burden. It's used for heavy labor/work.
Paul figuratively uses yoke being yoked to the old law as a heavy burden no one can bear.
Paul condemns the Jews for trying to put this yoke(law of Moses) on the born again gentiles.
Acts 15:10,
- now therefore why tempt ye God to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we(jews) were able to bear
The apostles came together to discuss this matter, because Jews were trying to bind the old law of Moses on born again christians.
Listen to what conclusion the apostles came to guided by the Holy Spirit on whether new testament Christians are to be yoked, entangled, burdened with the law of Moses.
Acts 15:1-24,
- but there rose up a certain of the sect of the Pharsees which believed(they believed the gospel)
saying, that it was nessary to circumcise them(gentiles who believed the gospel) and to command them(gentiles) to keep the law of Moses
Read the whole chapter please!!!
Now listen to the apostles final verdict after discussing this matter among themselves.
Acts 15:6;24,
- and the apostles and elders came together to consider of this matter....
- for as much as we(apostles, elders) have heard that certain which went out from among us have troubled you with words subverting your souls saying ye must be circumcised and keep the law of Moses to which we gave NO SUCH COMMANDMENT
Friend no one today is under the old testament law.
Christ came and established His new testament law and everyone jew and gentile is under this law today.
Hebrews 7:12,
- for the priesthood being changed there is made of necessity a change also of the law
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Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
Wait till inclusive law becomes law . if we think sharia law is deadly , and it is
IT holds not the power of the inclusive law . that law gonna hammer all who conformed not to its image
of what IT says is GOD and it calls love . AND BINGO if ya guessed that its god and its love
WILL SERVE THE AGENDA OF THE ONE WORLD RELIGOIN WHICH SERVES THE AGENDA OF THE ONE WORLD GOVT .
WE ARE ALL BEING deceived . Satan knows how to unify a people under what such a people
will beleive to be GOD and LOVE . Anyt hing that conforms not to its image , W ILL BE PERSECUTED
on a level of a tribulation so great that if it were not ended not a lamb one would be alive .
THIS is gonna explode my friends . . ITS GONNA explode . they have the system now
They have the religoin now
they have the power now TO DO ALL that was written would occur right at the end hour . They lead this people
into a lie they beleive will attain world peace n safety . BUT ITS PEACE IS OF ANTI CHRIST .
ITS COMING . And it has one common god
and one common love , and that god and its love , HATES And LEADS and WILL LEAD
this people into great war against the saints . YOU MARK THEM WORDS . ITS COMING and ITS AT THE DOOR .
Get this people out of and far away from anything ecumenical and its interfaith .
ITS NOT ME leading this people away from having to have had FAITH IN JESUS
ITS THEM . THEY DO SO THROUGH INTERRELGIOUS DIALGOUE
they gonna decieve us all by means of a false love , a false unity , a common ground lie
they cliam will usher in peace n safety upon the world . BUT ITS PEACE IS OF ANTI CHRIST . ITS COMING
its at the door . GET far from it and warn as many as you can . POINT ONLY TO JESUS and all HIS doctrine .
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Are you that dense?
The conflict between the religious leaders and Jesus was they only understood the letter of the Law while Jesus taught the spirit of the Law. This is the Law of Christ, or the Spirit.
What was once written on stone is now written on the fleshly tables of our hearts. If Christ is in you, then you are under the spirit of the Law, not the letter. This means that each and every believer follows the unction of the Holy Spirit who dwells within that believer and instead of being led by the Law written from without on stone, we are led by the spirit of the Law written on our hearts. As the New Covenant states:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
Jeremiah 31:33.
What is "my Law"? Some new law we know nothing about? No, it is the same Law given to Moses for the leading and guiding in all aspects of Hebrew culture: Social Law, Moral Law, and Ceremonial Law. THIS IS The Law of Moses/God. THIS IS the Law of the Spirit. THIS IS the Law of Christ (=Anointing/Spirit.)
Ezekiel echoes what Jeremiah prophesied:
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and fa new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Ezekiel 36:25–27.
What did Jesus say?
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: Matthew 7:24.
THAT Rock is Christ/Anointing/Spirit.
21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it. Luke 8:21.
And James:
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. James 1:22.
What is our justification? That Christ Jesus fulfilled every Law and Command of God the Father who gave those Laws and Commands to the children of Israel. Being that the Law is spiritual and type and shadow of the Holy Spirit of Promise, the Law of Christ within us is proof of our justification because Christ Jesus fulfilled the Law for me and in my stead. Therefore, if Christ is in me then God has accepted Christ Jesus' obedience to every jot and tittle and by it, He justifies me as though I had fulfilled every jot and tittle. I am declared "NOT GUILTY!" (Of transgressing His Law.) Now, when I transgress the Law of Moses the Holy Spirit of Promise within me deals with my conscience to convict me of sin so that I may repent and never do it again, in doing so I go from glory to glory to ultimately in my old age to be a pillar of the Church before God - not before men, BEFORE GOD!
Saul tells us:
16 All scripture (Old Testament Law, Psalms, and Prophets) is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
2 Timothy 3:16–17.
Imagine that. The Law of Moses and the Prophets is for instruction in RIGHTEOUSNESS.
And before God I have been declared "Righteous" ("NOT GUILTY!")
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. John 14:23.
What words are that?
Jesus came to the children of Israel teaching the Law of Moses, the SPIRIT of the Law of Moses.
The Law of Christ IS the Law of Moses for He Authored that Law. Those are the words He is referring to in John 14:23.
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. Luke 24:25–27.
Even up to the moment He ascended:
1 THE former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: Acts 1:1–3.
And here's another thing you don't understand. The kingdom of God is a Person: Christ.
Jesus was teaching them forty days after His resurrection things pertaining to HIM, the kingdom of God.
You got a lot to learn.
Titus
Active Member
Incorrect.
The law written on stone is not the law written on our hearts.
You said "As the new covenant states " There cannot be a new covenant if the old covenant never was fulfilled. You teach one continuous law. Therefore there is no new law.(your teaching not mine)
Hebrews 8:6-13 = Hebrews 9:15,
- but now hath He obtained a more excellent ministry by how much also He is the mediator of a better covenant which was established upon better promises...for finding fault with them He saith Behold the days come saith the Lord when I will put My laws into their mind and write them on their hearts.. in that He saith a new covenant He hath made the first old and that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away
- and for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament
that by means of death for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the
first testament
they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance
Old covenant, old testament, new covenant, new testament
Both covenants contain Gods law.
The old law of Moses is replaced with the new law of Christ.
Likewise both testaments contain Gods law as covenant and testament is one in the same.
Romans 7:4-6,
- wherefore my brethren ye also are become dead to the law(old law of Moses) by the body(church) of Christ that ye should be married to another even to Him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God
- but now we are delivered from the law(old letter i.e. old law) that being dead wherein we were held that we should serve in newness of the Spirit(new law of Christ) and not in the oldness of the letter(law of Moses)
Incorrect.
If your doctrine of only one continuous law is correct.
Then we are dead to the that one and only law.
Titus
Active Member
If your teaching is correct then the apostles decreed that they gave no commandment to keep the law of Christ/Moses.
That makes no sense friend.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Again, your ignorance of spiritual matters betrays your lack of a spiritual life. Only a spiritual man can understand spiritual matters. The Law of Moses is type and shadow of the Holy Spirit who will reside in the believes life through that Spirit who is the Law of Moses who is also the Author of the Law of God in both covenants (Mosaic and New.) God deals with the conscience of the believer from within the believer and His Law is that Law He promised to put in the inward parts of His born-again people. This is the basis of our justification. Because Jesus fulfilled all the commands of the Mosaic Law, and He is the One to whom God imparts His life in the believer, God's people do not obey the Law written on stone in which conviction for sin is done without the believer through the testimony of two or three persons, but that conviction for any sinful acts committed by a born-again believer occurs within the believer, God deals with that person from within and conviction is done by the Holy Spirit Himself within the believer. One can be sensitive to the Spirit or habitual sin causes a defilement or ever seared conscience in which judgment as consequence for sin results outwardly. The New Covenant is only the Mosaic Covenant fulfilled by Christ Jesus. Do you even understand what is being attested to when one calls out Christ Jesus in contrast to Jesus Christ? In the Name of Jesus (the) Christ is focus on the man, humanity, and of the flesh - glorified flesh. When the Name of Christ Jesus is found in the writ the focus is on the Spirit or Anointing of the Person who comes in the Name of the LORD. This is why the Name of the Son of God/Son of Man is written out as either Jesus Christ or Christ Jesus. He is the God (Christ) -man (Jesus.) But you understand none of this. You are trying to support the Law of Christ (Law of Moses) and at the same time are antinomian (against Law) of which the Holy Spirit is the Personification of the Law of God written on stone. There is no new Law spoken of in the New Testament but the Old Law which hasn't changed, but the person has changed through the new birth. Thus, his or her association to God's Law is the same Law but now that the natural man has been boirn-again that person has become a spiritual creation as the Son of God has fulfilled the Law of Moses and now the Law has taken on a spiritual nature in the spiritual man/woman. This is why Saul states:
14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: Acts 24:14.
And others testified that Saul as a born-again Christian lived still according to the Law of Moses:
22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. Acts 21:22–24.
A born-again Christian well known for his adherence to the Law of Moses? He practiced purification law and shaved his head. This is the mark of a Nazarene vow. But what is the testimony of others who knew him? He walked orderly and kept the Law. You cannot argue against that. This was the same for every born-again Christian in the decades before the destruction of the Temple. James, Peter, John, they all kept the Law of Moses. The difference was that when the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL (Joel) descended from heaven upon the eleven disciples in the upper room, and later the three thousand Jews on the street below, natural Olive tree Israel became spiritual Olive tree Israel that day.
Do you even understand what you wrote here?
Let me repeat it:
3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. Romans 7:2–6.
Serve in the newness of the spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
That is exactly what I have been saying. The Law hasn't changed, but the person did.
The Law is spiritual and when we were "in the flesh" (before spiritual birth) it slew us:
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. Romans 7:7–13.
God's Law is eternal. God's Word is the Law given to Israel to lead and guide them from without. This is why there was the Ceremonial Law, to deal with sin before the priests and to then do what was prescribed in the Law. There were laws of retribution - which I know you will disagree - but is the Golden Rule Jesus taught the people. He said, "do unto others as you would want them to do to you."
Well, what is it that we want them to do to us? Exactly what is prescribed in the Law. Do we want them to gouge out our eyes? No, we don't. Because the Law states that if you 'take' my eye God Almighty has given me permission to gouge out yours. Eye for eye. Therefore, if you want to preserve your eye YOU DON"T go after mine.
Verse 12 states "the Law is HOLY, and the commandment HOLY, and JUST, and GOOD."
And before the spiritual birth of a person the reason why the Law "killeth" was because we were "in the flesh." But once we became spiritual beings the Law could not 'touch' us. The Word of God doesn't have an expiration date attached to it. The Abrahamic Covenant was "everlasting."
The Law of Moses was "everlasting."
The New Covenant is "everlasting."
The Law didn't change. We did.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Is that why Saul was recognized by the born-again elders of the Sanhedrin as obedient to the Law of Moses?
24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. Acts 21:23–24.
And Saul confesses to his adherence to the Law and the Prophets:
14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: Acts 24:14.
Saul was living a spiritual life of obeying the Law of Moses, which was spiritual. He speaks in the present-tense.
As a born-again Christ follower of "the Way" He continued to keep the Law and the Prophets. He did so well that others commended him and his life and his obedience to the Law of Moses.
24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. Acts 21:24.
What is a born--again Christian doing obeying the Law of Moses and the Prophets?
That statement is a slap on your antinomian face.
e v e
Active Member
every word God says to His souls applies now. Has nothing to do with ethnicities. His covenant to return Home is with eden souls.
The land meant is our original eden land in the other reality which the sons will rule with Christ. Soon.
not any land here on this earth.
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Titus
Active Member
1Corinthians 9:20,
- to the jews I became as a jew that I might win jews though I myself am not under law
Paul said he is not bound to keep the law of Moses.
The only reason he would observe it was to win over Jews to the new law of Christ.
So when Paul was with Jews he observed their traditions
and when he was with gentiles he did not keep the old law,
It was to accommodate who he was teaching not out of obligation.
When the law was required Paul would refuse,
Refused circumcision for Titus Galatians 2:3-5
Condemned law keeping for justification, Galatians 5:2-4
Rebuked Peter from withdrawing from gentiles(Jewish law did not allow Jews to eat with gentiles) Galatians 2:11-14
Therefore Paul in Acts 21 cannot mean Paul believed the law was binding.
1Corinthians 9:22-23,
- I have become all things to all men that I might by all means save some...for the gospels sake
Romans 7:4,
- therefore my brethren you also have become dead to the law through the body(church) of Christ
Titus
Active Member
Please read what I'm teaching.
Nowhere have I taught no law.
That belief is error,
Galatians 6:2,
- bear one another's burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ
jeremiah1five
Active Member
So, what was Saul before he said, "to the Jews I became a Jew."?
Was he barbarian? Non-Hebrew Gentile?
Notice he said "to the Jews" [under the Law outwardly] "I became a Jew" [outwardly.]
But then again others saw he was a Jew outwardly:
24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. Acts 21:23–24.
That's one helluva statement to make about a follower of The Way. But what did Jesus say?
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Matthew 5:17–18.
"All" has not been fulfilled. As to the Ceremonial Law, yes, all is fulfilled, but there is still the Prophets - and even the apostle/prophet John on Patmos. That is yet to be fulfilled. Enoch's statement of a Second Coming before the First had even happened is still yet to be future.
Your problem is you rely too much on Gentile theologies. A Gentile is truly hard-pressed to rightly interpret Hebrew Law and culture and religion with a Gentile mindset.
He says the opposite here.
What you going to do? Be dishonest with Scripture or reconcile both statements to come to the knowledge of the truth?
14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: Acts 24:14.
The truth is Acts 24:14. This means you must try to understand what Saul is saying in 1st Corinthians without contradicting Acts 24:14.
The Law is binding on all born-again Christians. Otherwise you reject and destroy the Word of God here:
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: 7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates. Deuteronomy 6:4–9.
If we are no longer under the Law as you believe and teach, then we don't have to obey the above command.
Is that right?
According to you it is.
You need to bring your doctrine in line with the Eternal Word of God.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
The above "Law of Christ" you refer is the Law of Moses:
4 If thou meet thine enemy’s ox or his *** (donkey) going astray, thou shalt surely bring it back to him again.
5 If thou see the *** (donkey) of him that hateth thee lying under his burden, and wouldest forbear to help him, thou shalt surely help with him. Exodus 23:4–5.
The Law of Christ IS The Law of Moses!
You are antinomian. You teach the Law was abolished or obsolete. You don't understand the God does not change nor did the Law. There were no non-Hebrews under the Law and there are no non-Hebrew under Christ.
6 For I am the LORD, I change not;
Malachi 3:6.
Every doctrine you hold and teach must conform to this one truth. If you add to the Bible non-Hebrew Gentiles you are teaching AGAINST the Law of Almighty God.
But there is no fear of God in your heart. You are free in your sin to continue to destroy the Law with all your changes of the Law - even outright abolishment of the Eternal Law of the Almighty.
You will bear your own sin.
Titus
Active Member
Already explained. Paul does this to not offend.
Jews would not listen to him if he offended them.
He would depending on the audience keep Jewish customs.
Not out of obligation but in wisdom and love in effort to not offend.
You are ignoring that Paul also at times refused to keep the law of Moses when the Jews tried to make the law binding/salvific.
Acts 15:24,
- forasmuch as we have heard that some of you went out from us(apostles) have troubled you with words saying you must be circumcised and keep the law of Moses to whom we gave NO SUCH COMMANDMENT
Fulfilled means to bring to completion.
Jesus accomplished and served the purpose of the Mosical law thereby bringing it to an end.
Romans 10:4,
- Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes
Galatians 3:24-25,
- the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ but now that faith has come we are no longer under a tutor
Hebrews 8:13,
- by calling this covenant new He has made the first obsolete
Colossians 2:14,
- having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us which was contrary to us and He has taken it out of the way nailing it to the cross
Paul says it plainly the law of Moses is no longer binding on jews or gentiles.
Jesus ended the old covenant, the jot and tittle of the law was fullfilled.
John 19:30,
- it is finished
Romans 7:4,
- therefore my brethren you also have become dead to the law through the body(church) of Christ that you may be married to another to Him who was raised from the dead that we should bear fruit to God
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