Conservative America's False doctrine (1800's dispensationalism) Support of Israel
- Thread starter Titus
- Start date
Yes, it does sort of. In the discussion of the eating of the forbidden fruit, Satan did not actually lie; rather he made a play on words. His answer was "“Surely you will not die". And he was correct when they sinned, they did not die physically; but we know that they did die spiritually in that instant. they physically continued to live.
The other way in which I relate to that question is that I reject even the concept of original sin, that is, that one is dead in sin when they are born. They become dead in sin when they sin, But infant death is all too common, even in this day and age. Also, animals that do not and, by definition, cannot sin nevertheless die. Physical death of all biological elements is inherent. That is the way God created life. Every living being, plants and animal, dies eventrually.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Then what happened? He was kicked out of the garden. Eve had children... and God said nothing about death to her after she ate he said she would have bad childbirth or however it was phrased....
God told Adam before they ate the apple they would die...
They did not..... not physically. (God cannot nor will not lie)
Adam was 930 years old when he died so that fruit did not give him eternal life....(Gen 5:5)
But spiritual... separation from God... is an unwanted death of sorts.
civic
Active Member
nekros: Dead, deceased
Original Word: νεκρός
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: nekros
Pronunciation: nek-ros'
Phonetic Spelling: (nek-ros')
KJV: dead
NASB: dead, dead man, corpse, dead men, dead men's
Word Origin: [from an apparently primary nekus "a corpse"]
Spiritual death is not a biblical term or phrase, it is made up.
Nekros is a corpse
physical death in scripture is a fact all men die physically. nothing "symbolic" about it as its literal. ask the billions who have died a physical death.
As scripture declares : its appointed once for all men to die then comes the judgement. Hebrews 9:27
I will share this Scholar below on the biblical principle of physical death which is literal, not symbolic.
And as it is appointed unto men once to die - Or, "since it is appointed unto men to die once only." The object of this is to illustrate the fact that Christ died but once for sin, and that is done by showing that the most important events pertaining to man occur but once. Thus, it is with "death." That does not, and cannot occur many times. It is the great law of our being that people die only once, and hence, the same thing was to be expected to occur in regard to him who made the atonement. It could not be supposed that this great law pertaining to man would be departed from in the case of him who died to make the atonement, and that he would repeatedly undergo the pains of death. The same thing was true in regard to the "judgment." Man is to he judged once, and but once. The decision is to be final, and is not to be repeated. In like manner there was a fitness that the great Redeemer should die "but once," and that his death should, without being repeated, determine the destiny of man. There was a remarkable "oneness" in the great events which most affected people; and neither death, the judgment, nor the atonement could be repeated. In regard to the declaration here that "it is appointed unto men once to die," we may observe:
(1) that death is the result of "appointment;" Genesis 3:19. It is not the effect of chance, or haphazard. It is not a "debt of nature." It is not the condition to which man was subject by the laws of his creation. It is not to be accounted for by the mere principles of physiology. God could as well have made the heart to play forever as for 50 years. Death is no more the regular result of physical laws than the guillotine and the gallows are. It is in all cases the result of "intelligent appointment," and for "an adequate cause."
(2) that cause, or the reason of that appointment, is sin; notes, Romans 6:23. This is the adequate cause; this explains the whole of it. Holy beings do not die. There is not the slightest proof that an angel in heaven has died, or that any perfectly holy being has ever died except the Lord Jesus. In every death, then, we have a demonstration that the race is guilty; in each case of mortality we have an affecting memento that we are individually transgressors.
(3) death occurs but "once" in this world. It cannot be repeated if we should desire to have it repeated. Whatever truths or facts then pertain to death; whatever lessons it is calculated to convey, pertain to it as an event which is not to occur again. That which is to occur but once in an eternity of existence acquires, from that very fact, if there were no other circumstances, an immense importance. What is to be done but, "once," we should wish to be done well. We should make all proper preparation for it; we should regard it with singular interest. If preparation is to be made for it, we should make all which we expect "ever" to make. A man who is to cross the ocean but "once;" to go away from his home never to return, should make the right kind of preparation. He cannot come back to take what he has forgotten; to arrange what he has neglected; to give counsel which he has failed to do; to ask forgiveness for offences for which he has neglected to seek pardon. And so of death. A man who dies, dies but once. He cannot come back again to make preparation if he has neglected it; to repair the evils which he has caused by a wicked life; or to implore pardon for sins for which he had failed to ask forgiveness. Whatever is "to be done" with reference to death, is to be done "once for all" before he dies.
(4) death occurs to all. "It is appointed unto men" - to the race. It is not an appointment for one, but for all. No one is appointed by name to die; and not an individual is designated as one who shall escape. No exception is made in favour of youth, beauty, or blood; no rank or station is exempt; no merit, no virtue, no patriotism, no talent, can purchase freedom from it. In every other sentence which goes out against people there may be "some" hope of reprieve. Here there is none. We cannot meet an individual who is not "under sentence of death." It is not only the poor wretch in the dungeon doomed to the gallows who is to die, it is the rich man in his palace; the frivolous trifler in the assembly room; the friend that we embrace and love; and she whom we meet in the crowded saloon of fashion with all the graces of accomplishment and adorning. Each one of these is just as much under sentence of death as the poor wretch in the cell, and the execution on any one of them may occur before his. It is too for substantially the same cause, and is as really deserved. It is for "sin" that all are doomed to death, and the "fact" that we must die should be a constant remembrancer of our guilt.
(5) as death is to occur to us but once, there is a cheering interest in the reflection that when it is passed it is passed "forever." The dying pang, the chill, the cold sweat, are not to be repeated. Death is not to approach us often - he is to be allowed to come to us but once. When we have once passed through the dark valley, we shall have the assurance that we shall never tread its gloomy way again. Once, then, let us be willing to die - since we can die "but" once; and let us rejoice in the assurance which the gospel furnishes, that they who die in the Lord leave the world to go where death in any form is unknown.
But after this the judgment - The apostle does not say "how long" after death this will be, nor is it possible for us to know; Acts 1:7; compare Matthew 24:36. We may suppose, however. that there will be two periods in which there will be an act of judgment passed on those who die.
(1) immediately after death when they pass into the eternal world, when their destiny will be made known to them. This seems to be necessarily implied in the supposition that they will continue to live, and to be happy or miserable after death. This act of judgment may not be formal or public, but it will be such as to show them what must be the issues of the final day, and as the result of that interview with God, they will be made happy or miserable until the final doom shall be pronounced.
hope this helps !!!
civic
Active Member
The spiritually dead misnomer taught by Calvinists.
Adam who was “spiritually “dead hid from God in the garden and was able to communicate with God and understand Him. In the day you eat you shall surely die. So adam sinned and was spiritually dead and yet could communicate with God and understand God. “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.” (Genesis 3:10)
Luke 16:27-31 -“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”
Above we see that Jesus declared the physical dead and spiritual dead can respond to spiritual things. The dead spiritual/physical dead man is pleading for his own brother’s life.
Jesus declares in John 5:25, “An hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.” Here Jesus says the spiritually dead can and will hear him In Mark 2:17 Jesus said, “"It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." The sick/spiritually dead can hear and understand Jesus- the sinner who is dead in their sins can understand. In Romans 1 we read of the spiritually dead that they can perceive God and that Gods handiwork is self-evident to them and that the things of God are clearly seen by them so that they are without excuse.
Romans 1:20- For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.”
hope this helps !!!
Adam who was “spiritually “dead hid from God in the garden and was able to communicate with God and understand Him. In the day you eat you shall surely die. So adam sinned and was spiritually dead and yet could communicate with God and understand God. “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.” (Genesis 3:10)
Luke 16:27-31 -“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”
Above we see that Jesus declared the physical dead and spiritual dead can respond to spiritual things. The dead spiritual/physical dead man is pleading for his own brother’s life.
Jesus declares in John 5:25, “An hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.” Here Jesus says the spiritually dead can and will hear him In Mark 2:17 Jesus said, “"It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." The sick/spiritually dead can hear and understand Jesus- the sinner who is dead in their sins can understand. In Romans 1 we read of the spiritually dead that they can perceive God and that Gods handiwork is self-evident to them and that the things of God are clearly seen by them so that they are without excuse.
Romans 1:20- For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.”
hope this helps !!!
civic
Active Member
The Bible presents death as separation: physical death is the separation of the soul from the body, and spiritual death is the separation of the soul from God.
For the unsaved, death brings to an end the chance to accept God’s gracious offer of salvation. “It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment” (Hebrews 9:27). For the saved, death ushers us into the presence of Christ: “To be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord” (2 Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:23). So real is the promise of the believer’s resurrection that the physical death of a Christian is called “sleep” (1 Corinthians 15:51; 1 Thessalonians 5:10). We look forward to that time when “there shall be no more death” (Revelation 21:4)
So for those who are not saved after the GWT Judgement there will be an eternal separation of the soul from God eternally. This would be spiritual death that occurs at the final judgment.
hope this helps !!!
For the unsaved, death brings to an end the chance to accept God’s gracious offer of salvation. “It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment” (Hebrews 9:27). For the saved, death ushers us into the presence of Christ: “To be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord” (2 Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:23). So real is the promise of the believer’s resurrection that the physical death of a Christian is called “sleep” (1 Corinthians 15:51; 1 Thessalonians 5:10). We look forward to that time when “there shall be no more death” (Revelation 21:4)
So for those who are not saved after the GWT Judgement there will be an eternal separation of the soul from God eternally. This would be spiritual death that occurs at the final judgment.
hope this helps !!!
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Point made.nekros: Dead, deceased
Original Word: νεκρός
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: nekros
Pronunciation: nek-ros'
Phonetic Spelling: (nek-ros')
KJV: dead
NASB: dead, dead man, corpse, dead men, dead men's
Word Origin: [from an apparently primary nekus "a corpse"]
Spiritual death is not a biblical term or phrase, it is made up.
Nekros is a corpse
physical death in scripture is a fact all men die physically. nothing "symbolic" about it as its literal. ask the billions who have died a physical death.
As scripture declares : its appointed once for all men to die then comes the judgement. Hebrews 9:27
I will share this Scholar below on the biblical principle of physical death which is literal, not symbolic.
And as it is appointed unto men once to die - Or, "since it is appointed unto men to die once only." The object of this is to illustrate the fact that Christ died but once for sin, and that is done by showing that the most important events pertaining to man occur but once. Thus, it is with "death." That does not, and cannot occur many times. It is the great law of our being that people die only once, and hence, the same thing was to be expected to occur in regard to him who made the atonement. It could not be supposed that this great law pertaining to man would be departed from in the case of him who died to make the atonement, and that he would repeatedly undergo the pains of death. The same thing was true in regard to the "judgment." Man is to he judged once, and but once. The decision is to be final, and is not to be repeated. In like manner there was a fitness that the great Redeemer should die "but once," and that his death should, without being repeated, determine the destiny of man. There was a remarkable "oneness" in the great events which most affected people; and neither death, the judgment, nor the atonement could be repeated. In regard to the declaration here that "it is appointed unto men once to die," we may observe:
(1) that death is the result of "appointment;" Genesis 3:19. It is not the effect of chance, or haphazard. It is not a "debt of nature." It is not the condition to which man was subject by the laws of his creation. It is not to be accounted for by the mere principles of physiology. God could as well have made the heart to play forever as for 50 years. Death is no more the regular result of physical laws than the guillotine and the gallows are. It is in all cases the result of "intelligent appointment," and for "an adequate cause."
(2) that cause, or the reason of that appointment, is sin; notes, Romans 6:23. This is the adequate cause; this explains the whole of it. Holy beings do not die. There is not the slightest proof that an angel in heaven has died, or that any perfectly holy being has ever died except the Lord Jesus. In every death, then, we have a demonstration that the race is guilty; in each case of mortality we have an affecting memento that we are individually transgressors.
(3) death occurs but "once" in this world. It cannot be repeated if we should desire to have it repeated. Whatever truths or facts then pertain to death; whatever lessons it is calculated to convey, pertain to it as an event which is not to occur again. That which is to occur but once in an eternity of existence acquires, from that very fact, if there were no other circumstances, an immense importance. What is to be done but, "once," we should wish to be done well. We should make all proper preparation for it; we should regard it with singular interest. If preparation is to be made for it, we should make all which we expect "ever" to make. A man who is to cross the ocean but "once;" to go away from his home never to return, should make the right kind of preparation. He cannot come back to take what he has forgotten; to arrange what he has neglected; to give counsel which he has failed to do; to ask forgiveness for offences for which he has neglected to seek pardon. And so of death. A man who dies, dies but once. He cannot come back again to make preparation if he has neglected it; to repair the evils which he has caused by a wicked life; or to implore pardon for sins for which he had failed to ask forgiveness. Whatever is "to be done" with reference to death, is to be done "once for all" before he dies.
(4) death occurs to all. "It is appointed unto men" - to the race. It is not an appointment for one, but for all. No one is appointed by name to die; and not an individual is designated as one who shall escape. No exception is made in favour of youth, beauty, or blood; no rank or station is exempt; no merit, no virtue, no patriotism, no talent, can purchase freedom from it. In every other sentence which goes out against people there may be "some" hope of reprieve. Here there is none. We cannot meet an individual who is not "under sentence of death." It is not only the poor wretch in the dungeon doomed to the gallows who is to die, it is the rich man in his palace; the frivolous trifler in the assembly room; the friend that we embrace and love; and she whom we meet in the crowded saloon of fashion with all the graces of accomplishment and adorning. Each one of these is just as much under sentence of death as the poor wretch in the cell, and the execution on any one of them may occur before his. It is too for substantially the same cause, and is as really deserved. It is for "sin" that all are doomed to death, and the "fact" that we must die should be a constant remembrancer of our guilt.
(5) as death is to occur to us but once, there is a cheering interest in the reflection that when it is passed it is passed "forever." The dying pang, the chill, the cold sweat, are not to be repeated. Death is not to approach us often - he is to be allowed to come to us but once. When we have once passed through the dark valley, we shall have the assurance that we shall never tread its gloomy way again. Once, then, let us be willing to die - since we can die "but" once; and let us rejoice in the assurance which the gospel furnishes, that they who die in the Lord leave the world to go where death in any form is unknown.
But after this the judgment - The apostle does not say "how long" after death this will be, nor is it possible for us to know; Acts 1:7; compare Matthew 24:36. We may suppose, however. that there will be two periods in which there will be an act of judgment passed on those who die.
(1) immediately after death when they pass into the eternal world, when their destiny will be made known to them. This seems to be necessarily implied in the supposition that they will continue to live, and to be happy or miserable after death. This act of judgment may not be formal or public, but it will be such as to show them what must be the issues of the final day, and as the result of that interview with God, they will be made happy or miserable until the final doom shall be pronounced.
hope this helps !!!
Then what happened?
Gen 2: 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”
930 years of life before Adam died is a good long life.
Do you think God meant something else?
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Titus, you said, "Christians are to love everybody."
Where do you get that from? It's not in the Bible so why push it on Christians?
Where do you get that from? It's not in the Bible so why push it on Christians?
FreeInChrist
Active Member
@jeremiah1five
From search assist:
the Bible teaches that Christians are to love everyone, as seen in verses like Matthew 22:39, which commands to "love your neighbor as yourself," and Matthew 5:44, where Jesus instructs to "love your enemies." This love reflects God's love for all people and is a fundamental aspect of Christian teaching.
From search assist:
the Bible teaches that Christians are to love everyone, as seen in verses like Matthew 22:39, which commands to "love your neighbor as yourself," and Matthew 5:44, where Jesus instructs to "love your enemies." This love reflects God's love for all people and is a fundamental aspect of Christian teaching.
Biblical Command to Love Everyone
General Love for All
The Bible clearly teaches that Christians are to love everyone. This is rooted in the belief that all people are created in the image of God, deserving of dignity and respect. Key verses include:- Matthew 22:39: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
- Mark 12:31: Jesus expands the definition of "neighbor" to include everyone, even enemies.
Distinctive Christian Love
While Christians are called to love all people, there is a unique aspect of love among believers. This love is characterized by:- Self-Sacrifice: As stated in John 13:34-35, Jesus commands His followers to love one another as He loved them, which serves as a testimony to the world.
- Spiritual Unity: Christian love fosters deep connections, encouraging believers to support and uplift each other (Galatians 6:2, Romans 12:15).
The Role of the Holy Spirit
The ability to love as commanded is seen as a work of the Holy Spirit. According to Galatians 5:22, love is a fruit of the Spirit, indicating that true Christian love is supernatural and rooted in a relationship with Christ.Conclusion
In summary, the Bible emphasizes that Christians are to love everyone, reflecting God's love for humanity. This love is both universal and uniquely profound among believers, demonstrating the transformative power of faith.
Titus
Active Member
1John 4:8-10,
- God is love...
Genesis 1:26-27,
- Let us make man in our image, creation is an act of Gods love.
Love persists after mans betrayal.
God promises redemption.
Love chooses a people,
Deuteronomy 7:7-8,
- the Lord did not set His love upon you...
because ye were more...
but because the Lord loved you
Gods covenants are based on love.
Love disciplines, not abandons.
Proverbs 3:11-12,
- for whom the Lord loveth He correcteth...
Love is declared by God,
Jeremiah 31:3,
- yea I have loved thee with an everlasting love therefore with loving kindness have I drawn thee
Love reaches its climax in Christ,
John 3:16,
- for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son...
The cross is the ultimate proof the Bible is a love letter.
Love defines the Christian life.
Matthew 22:37-40,
- Jesus said unto them thou shalt love the Lord your God with all thy heart and with all thy soul and with all thy mind
- this is the first and greatest commandment
- and the second is like unto it, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thy self
- on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets
Love is how the story ends.
Revelation 21:3-4,
- behold the tabernacle of God is with men..
and God shall wipe away all tears...
The Bible ends the way it begins.
God dwelling with humanity.
Relationship restored
Love completed
Matthew 5:44-45,
- but I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you and pray for them which despitefully use you and persecute you
- that ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven for He maketh His sun to rise on the evil and the good and sendeth rain on the just and unjust
The phrase "that ye may be the children of your Father"
means we are to imitate Gods character.
Loving God.
Loving loved ones.
Loving enemies.
= universal love.
- God is love...
Genesis 1:26-27,
- Let us make man in our image, creation is an act of Gods love.
Love persists after mans betrayal.
God promises redemption.
Love chooses a people,
Deuteronomy 7:7-8,
- the Lord did not set His love upon you...
because ye were more...
but because the Lord loved you
Gods covenants are based on love.
Love disciplines, not abandons.
Proverbs 3:11-12,
- for whom the Lord loveth He correcteth...
Love is declared by God,
Jeremiah 31:3,
- yea I have loved thee with an everlasting love therefore with loving kindness have I drawn thee
Love reaches its climax in Christ,
John 3:16,
- for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son...
The cross is the ultimate proof the Bible is a love letter.
Love defines the Christian life.
Matthew 22:37-40,
- Jesus said unto them thou shalt love the Lord your God with all thy heart and with all thy soul and with all thy mind
- this is the first and greatest commandment
- and the second is like unto it, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thy self
- on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets
Love is how the story ends.
Revelation 21:3-4,
- behold the tabernacle of God is with men..
and God shall wipe away all tears...
The Bible ends the way it begins.
God dwelling with humanity.
Relationship restored
Love completed
Matthew 5:44-45,
- but I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you and pray for them which despitefully use you and persecute you
- that ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven for He maketh His sun to rise on the evil and the good and sendeth rain on the just and unjust
The phrase "that ye may be the children of your Father"
means we are to imitate Gods character.
Loving God.
Loving loved ones.
Loving enemies.
= universal love.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
I see you've never studied the question and its application in a born-again believer's life. That's OK. I will bring up applicable Scripture and help you to understand the original meaning and intent of God on this subject so that you and others can come to the knowledge of the truth. I will let the Scripture teach us the origin of God's instruction and commands on this subject that many have genuinely misinterpreted due to errors of understanding what God says on this subject. You can either accept what Scripture reveals or lean on your own understanding in the vanity of your mind. The belief among true born-again Christians that we are to "love everyone" is full of errors and I will now tell you why.
Scripture says, "God is love" and this is found in the apostle John's letters to Christians, to born-again Jewish Christians.
8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 1 John 4:7–8.
Also:
16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. 1 John 4:15–16.
But there are other verses regarding the attributes and nature of God in the KJV. I always hear Christians say, "God is love" and this is widely quoted. But the same John that penned "God is love" also said, "God is light" and God is truth", but I rarely hear brethren saying this along with "God is love" that "God is light" and "God is truth." It doesn't carry the same intimacy and personality that is expressed in "God is love" because, to be honest, how are we supposed to understand "God is light" and "God is truth"? These are terms that describe the Nature and Attributes of God to His people.
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 1 John 1:5.
6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 1 John 5:6.
4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect:
For all his ways are judgment:
A God of truth and without iniquity,
Just and right is he.
Deuteronomy 32:4.
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6.
God is all three of these, "love", "light", and "truth", but He is also more. The Apostle John’s declaration that "God is love" (1 John 4:8) is essentially the New Testament summary of the character God revealed to Moses in Exodus. John was summarizing the same God who described Himself to Moses as being "abundant in goodness." And if God reveals His love through His goodness the claim that "we are to love everybody" is never taught to believers. God's love is limited to His people. In fact, it is God who instructs and commands us in this love for the instruction of who we are to love comes to us in the desert at the time of Moses leading the children of Israel out of Egypt and to a place God promised to Abraham. After the Tabernacle was built God then proceeded to place the twelve tribes in lots around the Tabernacle. There were three tribes to the north, three tribes to the east, three tribes to the west, and three tribes to the south of the Tabernacle, with the Tabernacle being central in the lives of His people. Once the twelve tribes were settled in their assigned lots the command and instruction from God on love is given in Leviticus 19, and in these verses, God teaches the children of Israel who to love as part of their upbringing and inheritance. Here is the original instruction from God to the children of Israel of the subject on "love."
16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
Leviticus 19:16–18.
This is the first instance from God to His people on love. Notice the groups of people being described: "thy people", "thy neighbor", "thy brother", and "children of thy people" are all identified as various groupings of the twelve tribes of Israel. And the twelve tribes of Israel have all been given lots upon which to live with the Tabernacle being central to their daily lives. Now, let me break it down for you so that from the Word of God you can see what it is God is saying.
16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people (the twelve tribes or families): neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: (member of a tribe living next to you) I am the LORD.
17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother (member of the same tribe) in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour (member of a tribe living next to you), and not suffer sin upon him.
18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people (any member of any tribe), but thou shalt love thy neighbour (member of any tribe living next to you) as thyself: I am the LORD.
Leviticus 19:16–18.
These verses from Leviticus 19 are some of the most profound in the Old Testament, forming what is called the "Holiness Code." In the King James Version, they provide a blueprint for how holiness is expressed not through rituals, but through how we treat our fellow brethren as identified above.
1. The Danger of the Tongue:
16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people (member of any tribe): neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour (member of any tribe living next to you): I am the LORD.
Leviticus 19:16.
The Talebearer: The word for "talebearer" (rakil) in Hebrew is related to a word for a merchant or peddler. A talebearer is a "trader in secrets"—someone who picks up a scandal in one place and "sells" it in another.
Standing Against Blood: This is a sobering warning. It means to not stand idly by when your neighbor's life is in danger, nor to provide false testimony that could lead to someone's death (their "blood"). In a broader sense, it forbids profiting from the misfortune or destruction of others.
2. The Duty of Correction:
17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother (member of the same tribe) in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour (member of any tribe living next to you), and not suffer sin upon him. Leviticus 19:17.
Hatred in The Loving Rebuke: The Bible presents rebuking someone as an act of love. If you see a friend sinning and you say nothing, you "suffer sin upon him" (let him continue in a path that harms him). To "rebuke" is to care enough to pull someone back from a mistake.
The Heart: God addresses the root of outward sin—the heart. You might not strike your brother, but if you harbor silent hatred, you are in violation of this law. The command is simply Thou shalt not hate thy brother (member of the same tribe.)
3. The Royal Law:
18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people (member of any tribe), but thou shalt love thy neighbour (member of any tribe living next to you) as thyself: I am the LORD. Leviticus 19:18.
Avenge and Grudge: To "avenge" is the outward act of getting even; to "bear a grudge" is the inward keeping of the score. God commands the Israelites to let go of both.
Love Thy Neighbour as Thyself: This is the most famous part of the verse. It is the "Golden Rule" in seed form. It demands that we use the same natural concern we have for our own hunger, safety, and reputation to protect the hunger, safety, and reputation of others.
Why Does It Keep Saying, "I AM the LORD"?
Authority: I am the one who commanded this; it is not a suggestion.
Motive: You should do this because your character should reflect My character.
Witness: Even if no one else sees your "secret grudge" or your "talebearing," I see it, because I am the LORD.
In all these instructions and commands of the LORD He is speaking/addressing the twelve tribes of Israel. In other words, these commands on love are to be shared with fellow brethren in the Lord. We are commanded to love only our fellow believers. God never commands His people to love anyone else but our fellow brethren. We are not instructed nor commanded in any way, shape, or form, to love the unbeliever, the non-believer, the unatoned world. Jesus said that He did not come to destroy the Law (Matthew 5:17) but to fulfill it. He did not come to change the Law for any change made to the Law would surely destroy the Law for what God has said stands true. He does not alter His Word for anyone. God says what He means and He means what He says.
There is a curse that is upon anyone who gives God's love - which is Holy love - to the unsaved world of unbelievers. It is treasonous to God when one does this. God is love and His love given to His people is to be given to fellow believers, not the world:
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.1 John 2:15–16.
The Scripture presents believers and unbelievers as "women."
First, the Whore:
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
Revelation 17:4–6.
And now, the Bride of Christ who is Israel:
And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: Revelation 12:1.
Does Christ love everyone? The answer is, no, He does not. Christ only loves His people; He only loves the Church who is Israel. God is betrothed to Israel. She is His Bride. If Christ loves His Church (believers) and if He also loves "the world" and Christ gives the world the marital love He has with Israel, what is that called? It's called adultery. Christ only loves one woman, His Bride. He does not love the whore, the unbeliever, because the unbeliever does not love Christ for Christ does not love them first.
19 We love him, because he first loved us.1 John 4:19.
That is the order. Before we or anyone can love God, He must love them first, and a love that delivers from the curse of sin and death is a love that was demonstrated in the sacrifice of His Son for Israel. God does not give that which is Holy (His love) to "dogs" (unbelievers), nor does He cast His Pearls (His Word) to swine (unbelievers.)
We are instructed and commanded to love only brethren. The statement that "God loves everyone" is clearly a lie and has no biblical support. It is an ignorance of the original command from God to the twelve tribes of Israel found in Leviticus 19 and supported by Jesus in Matthew 22. Believers are all the Bride of Christ. God gives us His love so that we may love our brethren, not the world. For if you, a believer saved by the love of God, give His love to unbelievers instead of your brethren, you are committing adultery. You are joining Christ to a whore.
This is the Word of God. God says, "I AM the LORD."
Titus
Active Member
We are not under old testament law!!!
And you need to learn the old law commands Jewish tribes to love non- brethren, ie gentiles.
Leviticus 19:34,
- you shall treat the stranger(non- brethren) who sojourns with you as the native among you,
and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. I am the Lord
FreeInChrist
Active Member
I believe this is likely true.
We are never to be unequally yoked and this would fall under that.
Makes it difficult with family members whom one seemingly au8tomatically loves... friends not so much.
Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
One of the greatest acts of love IS to preach the dire necessity to believe on JESUS .
One of the greatests acts of hate is to leave one in sin and unbelief.
So why am i now seeing a gospel they try and claim is the love of GOD
and yet it cliams that muslims and all other religoins serve the same GOD we do .
Cause that is a second death sentence and will not save them . We cannot be partakers
of it either .
Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
God is love . And yet many seem not to preach HIS LOVE but rather a love of the world
that it cliams be of GOD . I will happily explain this in a bit .
Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
Never to be unequally yoked indeed my friend .
We are to LOVE GOD above all . Above all .
To the trenches my friend
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Who told you God's people are not under the Law? Did you read it somewhere? Did someone tell you? Did you read it in a Gentile theology book? Have you ever studied the question or regurgitating what others have sid.
So, if God's people are not under the Law, then I suppose they don't have to obey His command to "not have other gods before [you]", or to not commit adultery. Really, have you ever studied the question at all?
What do you suppose Saul is talking about here:
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Timothy 3:16–17.
The "All Scripture" is the Hebrew Scripture consisting of the Five Books of Moses, 150 Psalms, and 34 "books" of the Old Testament prophets. Saul is instructing Jewish Christians to continue to obey God and what He commands for His people, and the Law is an important part of the born-again life. Saul obeyed the Law and the Prophets. Even after he became born-again, did you know that? He was commended by his Jewish brethren in how 'perfectly' he obeyed God in the Law and the Prophets. Every born-again Jew remained faithful to God and obeyed the Law of God.
24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. Acts 21:23–24.
Saul professed obedience to the Law and the Prophets:
14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: Acts 24:14.
Wherever you're getting your theology is wrong. Born-again Christians still obey God's Word in the Law of Moses. Jesus Himself instructed and directed the people to obey the Law of Moses even up to the very day He died. Now, why would Jesus do that? Why would He direct people to a greater love of God and obedience to the Law if in a few short weeks it was going to be "abolished" or made "obsolete." Unless you're talking about the Ceremonial Law. Now that is no longer necessary since Jesus took the place of the Paschal lamb and fulfilled every aspect having to do with worship and sin and the sacrifice of the Ceremonial Law. Just as the lamb was sacrificed yearly to atone the sins of the children of Israel, Jesus was substituted to be that lamb and have God place our sins upon Him and just as the animal died and was sacrificed to atone the sins of the children of Israel, so, too did Jesus die to atone the sins of the children of Israel. He was Promised by God and the prophets prophesied about His ministry and work He was to perform for God's people Israel. So, you're going to teach and say the Law is "abolished" and no longer in effect for God's people? If you do that you are least in the kingdom of God. You may even receive some stripes for leading God's people away from God.
And you are wrong again on your passage above in Leviticus 19:
33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.
34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God. Leviticus 19:33–34.
The word "stranger" doesn't mean Gentile. Where is that coming from? why are you trying so hard to twist the Hebrew word to make it say something it has nothing to do with Gentiles.
Hebrew Word: גֵּר
Transliteration: gēr
Phonetic Pronunciation: gare
In Strong's Hebrew it's [#1616], and it means: (fully) geyr, gare; from [#1481] (guwr); properly a guest; by implication means a "foreigner." Now how do you get "Gentile" from "foreigner"? Since Ishmael had twelve sons and his family of mixed-race Hebrew/Egyptian also numbered in the millions like Jacob's because upwards of two million Hebrews were delivered out of Egypt by God and they were so numerous that from atop a mountain Balaam said the Hebrew people of God filled the Jordan Valley. It can also be talking about Esau's descendants, too. They would be related being Abraham's seed. Why wouldn't Jacob's descendants show love and hospitality to their cousins? As a matter of fact, the Hebrews instruction in treating them this way would most likely mean just that. Saul calls mixed-race Jews of the Diaspora who because they were Abraham's descendants and seed were "strangers" from the covenants of promise in Ephesians 2:
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: Ephesians 2:12.
Abraham's descendants/seed by this time were like the stars in the heaven and sand of the seashore. 460 years of births can turn into millions in the Jordan Valley and the areas surrounding it. But you can't get "Gentile" from a word that means "guest" in Hebrew. You're completely out of line there. Do what I did and study the question of the Law instructing born-again believers. Don't just mimic others who may not have studied the question either. That's the lazy man's way and it shows contempt for God and His "All Scripture" that is given of God and inspired.
Study it and come back with something good.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
There you go. Now build on it.
You see, when God gives His Spirit to the seed of Abraham and a new birth result, our love for God and His Word is ignited. The communion between the Lord and His people is very intimate. There is immediate change in "spirit" (attitude), in behavior, is everything we are and do. It's important for believers in their study and learning and it is this one thing if they are going to learn anything, and it is this: We are to study the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets just as Saul did, and God gives us our call and spiritual gifts to accomplish that call. We are also given pounds and talents from God, and we are supposed to learn the things God gives us in the spiritual realm are meant to be shared specifically with brethren. Love, care, compassion, mercy, everything is given to us to be shared with brethren only. This takes self-knowledge and awareness. It all comes with profit.
Titus
Active Member
FreeInChrist
Active Member
But, I am not a Hebraic Jew. I read nothing in the OT that instructs a mongrel like me to abide by anything there.
you
You have indicated often enough to me that ... if I can term this this way.... on the outside looking in.
Therefore " and we are supposed to learn the things God gives us in the spiritual realm are meant to be shared specifically with brethren." I cannot do as I am not a bretheren.
Nor "Love, care, compassion, mercy, everything is given to us to be shared with brethren only." I also cannot do, for the very same reason you pounded me with months ago.
You worked long and hard to make me have " This takes self-knowledge and awareness."
So what I see as likely true... I am not part of you. So it applies not to me.
Similar threads
