Conservative America's False doctrine (1800's dispensationalism) Support of Israel
- Thread starter Titus
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God says it with His natural law.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Only 4,000 years, when the current year in the Jewish calendar is 5786?
A literal 24 hour creation day should have it's own thread.... many disagree.
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civic
Active Member
Typo I meant from the time of Christ it was 4,000 years ago. Approaching 6,000 very soon
There are many who disagrees (disagreed) with me about that. And that is okay; what we believe about that will not affect our salvation. But all of God's natural law(s) of the functioning universe says that the universe is older, very much older, than 6000 years. Specifically, God's natural law says that the universe is a bit older than 13 billion years.
I agree that the time back to Adam is about 6000 years. But the time back to the very beginning is about 13 billion years. Moreover, reckoning the timing according to Gods, natural law provides an amazing alignment with the sequence of events as presented in Genesis. I can give you a reference that speaks to that if you are interested.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
To me Jim is on the right track.
I do think things extended long before Adam.
At the same time I AM NOT a 13 billion year old person... nor am I a big banger.... and certainly no part of evolution....
My only acceptance to that and it is not evolution... are some potential interbreeding of animal where other were form. Like a
A liger is a hybrid animal that results from the mating of a male lion and a female tiger.
But can be a fascinating study and take nothing away from God's purpose in creation or the timing of things.
You say that
I am not dragging this out other then to say, I say not necessarily 24 hour consecutive days.
This is a fascinating subjects and worthy of its own thread... unless there is one and I have missed it.
There have been translations that indicate the phrasing of the first day, the second day etc... and people say this means 144 consecutive hours.
I see it differently.
In Hebrew it reads
יוֹם אֶחָד (yôm ʾeḥād)
Literal meaning “day one” or “one day”, not “the first day.” Then when we get to Gen 1:8 , 1:13 etd... the Hebrew switches to
ordinal numbers.....second day.....third day .....fourth day, etc.
That difference is real in the Hebrew text.
Since “Genesis 1:5 does not say the first day in Hebrew, but one day (day one), which leaves the opening day qualitatively distinct.”
Youngs "Literal" Translation we find “and there is an evening, and there is a morning -- day one.”.... "and there is an evening, and there is a morning -- day second" etc... and this lead me to ask the question... how much time passed between day one and day second, etc?
If you check out some of the lesser know translations they are more in line with the Hebrew text.
Darby, Lexham English Bible and Jewish Publication Society 1917/1985 these say ONE DAY
Robert Alter'sTrandlation says DAY ONE
I personally see a time gap within the 6 days of creation. Especially if we consider The first “day” as qualitatively unique, not simply Day #1 in a series. We simply are not told anything other then evening and morning were some numbered day. “Evening and morning” may mark completion, not duration.
These do not prove you are wrong, just simply another way to read things.
One final comment because I am OT
We have the "chronological creation including man mentioned in Chapter one.
When we get to Chapter 2.... Now enters the Sabbath rest. and we are told
And if this was just 24 hours after the start of day 6 then why the need for a recap of the week when it is not exactly the same in the same order as in Gen 1. When the description of how Adam came to be in chapter two is so explicit... and Adam was NOT TOLD to go tend the entire world of animals etc like min Gen chapter 1
"27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."
and God made a great garden for Adam... and made a specific woman for him ( seemingly separate from the male and female in Chapter 1
I believe this is when the 24 hour consecutive times began... and it is from Adam they started... keeping your "dating" perfectly
from that point on.
Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
It was man that claimed this law . currently called evolution .
We must return to the simple basics my friend .
Man says it must be millions and billions of years . GOD never did .
Always remember that .
What we were taught in school , this evolution . IT never came of GOD it came from world wise men .
Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
Let us keep in memory that it made it quite clear it was indeed a literal day .
For every day from the first , second , etc
IT says AND THE EVENING and THE MORNING were the first day , and the evening and the morning
were the second day . IT literally says Evening and the morning as one day .
SO yes my friend you are correct . WHEN the bible makes it clear , It makes it clear indeed .
You are erroneously conflating the evidence of a 13+ billion-year-old universe with evolution. They may be related, but they are not the same thing. The old universe is not dependent upon any theories of biological evolution. The old universe is not simply a claim, rather it is discovered from God's own creation and His laws governing that creation. If you cannot trust the evidence that God has presented us in nature which is visible all around us today, what makes you think you can trust the evidence that God has presented us in writings through a whole bunch of ancient authors?
What is evening and morning when the sun does not even exist yet?
Huh? Do you really believe that the death of animals is due to Adam's sin? So that the death of flies, for example, is because Adam disobeyed God? Surely not. If that is the case, then it is good that Adam sinned otherwise flies would have ruled this planet. Did carnivores not exist before Adam sinned? And did not the death of plants exist before Adam sinned? What sort of a really strange universe do you think God created. Death is an integral feature of God's physical creation.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Who likely say the outcome of a male donkey breeding with a female horse and there came the mule... who some likely misnamed a hybrid.
Back in the 1970s we had a female poodle who we let out back to be aired before going to bed. She was in season and when she was coming back into the house a racoon was hot on her heels. My dad was their and kicked the racoon under its jaw and it ran away... if they had mated... because it could well have happened.... would the offspring be called a racoodle? It would not be evolved... it would be a hybrid from cross mating.
No, God did bot create evolution, he created nature to do what nature does.
Titus
Active Member
The Bible only gives one reason for death.
To claim another reason would be adding to what the Scriptures do not teach.
One reason given.
So we must take Gods word for what it says.
Genesis 2:17,
- but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil thou shalt not eat of it, for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die
Now after sin death is confirmed,
Genesis 3:19,
- in the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread till thou return unto the ground for out of it was thou taken for dust art thou and unto dust shalt thou return
Before sin Adam would live forever,
Tree of life= "fountain of immortality"
Genesis 2:9,
- and out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food the tree in the midst of the garden and the tree of knowledge of good and evil
Genesis 3:22,
- and the Lord God said Behold the man is as one of us, to know good and evil and now lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat and live forever
Absolutely.
Genesis 3:17-18,
- and unto Adam He said because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife and hast eaten of the tree of which I commanded thee saying, thou shalt not eat of it, cursed is the ground for thy sake in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life,
thorns and thistle shall it bring forth to thee, and thou shalt eat of the herb of the field
God cursed the earth because of sin.
If plants are corrupted animals that depend on them are affected.
Only after sin does God command to kill and eat,
There was no permission for killing before sin.
This implies no animal death before predation.
Genesis 1:29-30,
- and God said said to you it shall be for meat and to every beast of the earth I have given every green herb for meat and it was so
Humans and animals were given plants not each other.
God changed the earth,(cursed) after sin.
South and north poles could have been tropical paradise.
That's huge amount of land mass for all living things.
Regardless I dont need to speculate because God already said when death entered the world.
I am a Bible believer.
When scientists contradict Gods word, I know who has missed the mark.
1John 5:10,
- he that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself he tbat believeth not God hath made Him a liar, because he believeth not the record that God gave of His Son
Titus
Active Member
Amen
The Bible makes no such claim. There was no spiritual death before Adam sinned. Physical death is an essential feature of biological life as created.
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The Bible gives only one reason for spiritual death. Physical death is an inherent feature of physical creation.
There are many ways and reasons to die physically.
If physical death was not inherent in the creation, then why would the tree of life even be needed and placed in the garden? It was there to prevent physical death that would occur without the fruit of the tree of life.
Do you really believe that some herbivores became carnivores when Adam sinned?
The only thing that was changed was that Adam and Eve were ejected from the Garden. Outside of the Garden, the world was as it is today. If that wasn't the case, then what was the Garden?
And where in God's word do you find that information about the south and north poles?
The only death that entered the world when Adam sinned was spiritual death.
The tree of life was in the garden to prevent Adam and Eve from dying the natural death integral to the physical creation (Gen 3:22). But that was only available to them so long as they didn't sin. Once they sinned, then God put them out of the garden away from that tree and its fruit.
Yes, of course, physical death is an essential feature of the physical creation. But there was no spiritual death before sin. There was no spiritual life on earth before Adam.
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