Concupiscence

John 17: 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work "which thou gavest me to do".

His Works, everything HE did, originated from His Father, at least according to dozens of eye witness accounts that were recorded as a Testimony of Him.

I'm going to deal with just one verse you referenced. You treated them all the same. I'm going to identify your mistake here. You can either deal with this verse moving forward without endless "throwing" verses at this or not. Your choice. I'm not going to get side tracked from what I'm doing to entertain you.

Now. Say clearly that this work that Jesus did was against the will of Christ Jesus. You said that what Christ did.... originated with the Father. That it all came from the Father. The context of willingness here is lost on you. The aspect of a common will shared in Character is lost on you. You don't understand it because you've never experienced it yourself.

Then why the video?

I don't care if anyone sees our ugly faces. I offered audio. Like I said. Your choice. When I say I don't care. I'm saying that I don't care if they do or they don't. Hence = I DON'T care.

Why would it be important to someone who has "Yielded themselves to God", to understand the reason why you don't write books?

Yield. Thank God. There is that word....... You used it. It a wonderful word.

Christ never had to "yield" himself to God.

It works both ways PY. You show people who you are as well.

Contrary to what you think. I usually consider, BEFORE I WRITE, if something applies to me or not. I try to avoid such nonsense of having arguments that equally apply to each participant.

I didn't exclude myself. I well know this. You didn't have to tell me. Hence.... I said "I'll wait" till we both meet with WHO matters. That will be Jesus Christ. You'll bow. I'll bow. He will speak of us. Then it will matter.
 
I've not claimed authority.
You’ve assumed the authority to critique the authority of others. Your criticism assumes your belief that you understand better than others; that you know better than those of differing interpretations.

To disagree is one thing, but to discredit the worthiness of someone else’s opinion, education, and conclusions is another thing altogether.
You are a self identifying Arminian. I know what you believe because I know what your teachers taught you.
This isn’t about what I believe as much as what you think I believe. Arminian thought has a wide range of opinions about different things. I have disagreed with many things that I was taught, especially in the Wesleyan vein of thought.

Doug
 
I'm going to deal with just one verse you referenced. You treated them all the same. I'm going to identify your mistake here. You can either deal with this verse moving forward without endless "throwing" verses at this or not. Your choice. I'm not going to get side tracked from what I'm doing to entertain you.

Now. Say clearly that this work that Jesus did was against the will of Christ Jesus. You said that what Christ did.... originated with the Father. That it all came from the Father. The context of willingness here is lost on you.

No, it's not lost on me at all. I posted, and of course you ignored, that Jesus was born with emotions and desires as all men. It is written that He "learned obedience" which means HE learned from His Father how to control and direct the natural Free will human desires and emotions we are all born with, for Good and not for evil. His Ministry didn't even begin, until HE learned to "Rule over them", and trust in His perfect Father regarding how to truly preserve His Self Interest. This is Lost with you, not me.

The Bible says, "Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore (Because of this) God, "thy God", (Jesus' Father) "hath anointed thee" with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Jesus was born with the natural desire for self preservation just as we all were. That was HIS Will.

Luke 22: 42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless "not my will", "but thine", be done.

So right here is a perfect example of Jesus "Denying Himself", to do the Will of the Father.

This world's religions promote the Philosophy that Jesus overcame, not because HE Denied Himself, but "Because" He was GOD, even though HE told me to deny myself. In essence you are promoting that Jesus placed burdens on my back that HE Himself didn't lift with even one finger. That Jesus "Risked Nothing", that His Death was just Hollywood, a scam, a show, because GOD can't die. You imply that HIS Temptations were just a deception, because GOD can't be tempted. That Jesus "pretended" to be a man, but when the going got tough, as it does with all humans, HE just kicked in God's Powers that HE withheld from all other humans, and overcame through these Powers, and His father gave Him a Trophy for it.

That is the foundation of your argument against the Biblical Truth that Jesus' works, actions and mission didn't originated in Himself, but in the Father.

I will not join the course of this world's wicked judgments against God and His Son in this matter. I will not demean the great sacrifice the Christ made, by preaching to others that HE overcame, not because HE offered Himself a Living Sacrifice to God His Father IN FAITH, but because HE reserved unto Himself God powers that HE withheld from all other humans, and by this power HE overcame.

The aspect of a common will shared in Character is lost on you. You don't understand it because you've never experienced it yourself.

God and His Son Jesus shared a Father/Son relationship. This is Lost on you, as you have adopted this world's religious philosophy that they shared a God/God relationship.

I don't care if anyone sees our ugly faces. I offered audio. Like I said. Your choice. When I say I don't care. I'm saying that I don't care if they do or they don't. Hence = I DON'T care.
I don't care about your video either.

Yield. Thank God. There is that word....... You used it. It a wonderful word.

Christ never had to "yield" himself to God.
Not your Jesus, but the Jesus of the Bible "being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross".

And this, not because HE "HAD" to, but because HE "Chose" to, of His Own Free will, as HE tells men, if they only believed.

John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, "because" I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. "I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again". This commandment have I received "of my Father".

He did this for me. That's why I listen to Him, and not this world's religions you are here to promote.

Contrary to what you think. I usually consider, BEFORE I WRITE, if something applies to me or not. I try to avoid such nonsense of having arguments that equally apply to each participant.

I didn't exclude myself. I well know this. You didn't have to tell me. Hence.... I said "I'll wait" till we both meet with WHO matters. That will be Jesus Christ. You'll bow. I'll bow. He will speak of us. Then it will matter.

In the meantime, Paul teaches that men should Labor, that they might be accepted of Him. And Peter teaches to be diligent that we are found by Him without spot and blameless. And Jesus teaches that we should "Seek God's Righteousness" and "Live By" Every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God, and be perfect, even as our Father in heaven is perfect.

And all this in the Hope that Jesus will see our Labor in the Lord, having believed Paul that our Labor in not in vain, and that HE might advocate on our behalf.

This seems more important than a video to try and prove Jesus didn't come to do the Will of the Father, but the will of Himself.
 
You’ve assumed the authority to critique the authority of others. Your criticism assumes your belief that you understand better than others; that you know better than those of differing interpretations.

I do know better. Authority is more than claiming knowledge that others do not have. Authority is actually the right to be wrong. It is power that exists over others whether they are right or wrong.

That is authority. Submission is required to others even when they are wrong.

What matter is.....where that authority comes from.

To disagree is one thing, but to discredit the worthiness of someone else’s opinion, education, and conclusions is another thing altogether.

This isn’t about what I believe as much as what you think I believe. Arminian thought has a wide range of opinions about different things. I have disagreed with many things that I was taught, especially in the Wesleyan vein of thought.

Doug

I don't care what education you claim over me. It doesn't exist. Do you know how many arguments/debates I've had in my life over this? Over and over again.

So lets have it again..... One more time....

You don't speak of Wesleyans. You have no authority to speak for them. Yet, you're trying to do just that. I know what your teachers taught you. If they were alive, I would ask to speak to them. They're not.

There are so many things you're fundamentally incapable of defending in this. If you want me to show you, I will. So keep talking.
 
No, it's not lost on me at all. I posted, and of course you ignored, that Jesus was born with emotions and desires as all men. It is written that He "learned obedience" which means HE learned from His Father how to control and direct the natural Free will human desires and emotions we are all born with, for Good and not for evil. His Ministry didn't even begin, until HE learned to "Rule over them", and trust in His perfect Father regarding how to truly preserve His Self Interest. This is Lost with you, not me.

God is emotional. God has desires. Jesus had them before he was born of Mary.

You've been taught many many bad things. It is why you answer the way you do.

So we have a fundamental disagreement. So tell me how we get past this?

You need to change how you understand emotions. Emotions do not come from the flesh.
 
Authority is actually the right to be wrong.
Nothing about right or wrong or the right to be either.



Dictionary

Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more

au·thor·i·ty
/əˈTHôrədē/

noun
noun
: authority; plural noun: authorities
  1. 1.
    the power or right to give orders, make decisions, and enforce obedience.
    "he had absolute authority over his subordinates"
    Similar:

    power
    jurisdiction
    command
    control
    mastery
    charge
    dominance
    dominion
    rule
    sovereignty
    ascendancy
    supremacy
    domination
    influence
    sway
    the upper hand
    leverage
    hold
    grip
    clout
    pull
    muscle
    teeth
    drag
    • the right to act in a specified way, delegated from one person or organization to another.
      "military forces have the legal authority to arrest drug traffickers"
      Similar:

      authorization
      right
      power
      mandate
      prerogative
      license
      carte blanche
      droit
    • official permission; sanction.
      "the money was spent without congressional authority"
      Similar:

      authorization
      permission
      consent
      leave
      sanction
      license
      dispensation
      assent
      acquiescence
      agreement
      approval
      seal of approval
      approbation
      endorsement
      imprimatur
      clearance
      the go-ahead
      the thumbs up
      the OK
      the green light
      say-so
      permit
  2. 2.
    a person or organization having power or control in a particular, typically political or administrative, sphere.
    "the health authorities"
    Similar:

    officials
    officialdom
    the people in charge
    the government
    the administration
    the establishment
    the bureaucracy
    the system
    the police
    the powers that be
    the (men in) suits
    Big Brother
    • the confidence resulting from personal expertise.
      "he hit the ball with authority"

 
    • a person with extensive or specialized knowledge about a subject; an expert.
      "she was an authority on the stock market"
      Similar:

      expert
      specialist
      professional
      pundit
      oracle
      past master
      master
      maestro
      doyen
      adept
      guru
      sage
      scholar
      connoisseur
      aficionado
      one of the cognoscenti
      walking encyclopedia
      bible
      buff
      boffin
      ace
      pro
      whiz
      wizard
      dab hand
      maven
      crackerjack
      source
      reference
      piece of documentation
      citation
      quotation
      quote
      excerpt
      passage
    • a book or other source able to supply reliable information or evidence, typically to settle a dispute.
      "the court cited a series of authorities supporting their decision"
Origin

78032c8f7161a97840812c57696f521a04f3a96ca8a3fdf03e334440d7f5dfbb.png
 

    • a person with extensive or specialized knowledge about a subject; an expert.
      "she was an authority on the stock market"
      Similar:
      expert
      specialist
      professional
      pundit
      oracle
      past master
      master
      maestro
      doyen
      adept
      guru
      sage
      scholar
      connoisseur
      aficionado
      one of the cognoscenti
      walking encyclopedia
      bible
      buff
      boffin
      ace
      pro
      whiz
      wizard
      dab hand
      maven
      crackerjack
      source
      reference
      piece of documentation
      citation
      quotation
      quote
      excerpt
      passage

    • a book or other source able to supply reliable information or evidence, typically to settle a dispute.
      "the court cited a series of authorities supporting their decision"
Origin
78032c8f7161a97840812c57696f521a04f3a96ca8a3fdf03e334440d7f5dfbb.png
Okay. Set this aside for a moment. Did God give authority to kings of this earth that did evil? Did they loose their authority? Did Jesus speak of the authority those whited graves had over the people he loved? Did Jesus literally free them from such?

You will not find the proper perspective of authority coming from Latin in this. We can reason it from the Scriptures themselves.
 
If you didn't think you knew better, we wouldn't be arguing. No hubris involved.
I don’t think I know better than you, I just understand differently and disagree with your opinion on academic foundations of theology and hermeneutics.

I don’t think I am better than you, for I have only to keep my own nose clean before God and I have no reason for pride in his presence. We’re all in the same boat before him.

Doug
 
Did God give authority to kings of this earth that did evil? Did they loose their authority?
I’m not sure why you’re asking me this question.
Did Jesus speak of the authority those whited graves had over the people he loved? Did Jesus literally free them from such?
I don’t have any idea what you’re asking here either…”whited graves”?
You will not find the proper perspective of authority coming from Latin in this.
Scripture is a collection of words; words have meanings, meaning establishes boundaries of truth. Authority has nothing to do with having the right to be wrong! Etymology matters!

Doug
 
I don’t think I know better than you, I just understand differently and disagree with your opinion on academic foundations of theology and hermeneutics.

I don’t think I am better than you, for I have only to keep my own nose clean before God and I have no reason for pride in his presence. We’re all in the same boat before him.

Doug
I never said I was better than you. That is a measure of value. It simply that I know all these subjects better than you do. You believe you understand then better than I do.

I will agree that we disagree. We don't have to agree. Neither of us have any authority from God. We are equals in such. You should recognize this and then we can truly be equals in this conversation. We can deal with each others as equals and make this all about the facts. No posturing. No pretense. Just us being who we are.
 
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