Concupiscence

[praise_yeshua]

“For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.” I don’t see any caveat for Abel here. To admit that nothing is said about Abel sinning does not mean Abel didn’t sin. After all, they were making sacrifices to God for some reason, and that reason was for their sins. Abel’s were accepted by God, Cain’s were not.

Doug

In review to a previous conversation we had....

Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Rom 3:13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

This is a reference to humanity much later than Adam. You can't trace these words back to Adam himself. You're referencing the words of David concerning the foolishness of mankind long after Adam.

Man became worse and worse.

The context are the fools of Psa 14:1.

Psa 14:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Psa 14:3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Py,

I only use the best one. Microsoft Co-pilot. The largely ignored one.

I do like its summary. Over all, I'm not fond of it. I prefer Grok but to each his own.... Thanks for sharing.

 

[TibiasDad]

Christ, the second Adam was much more than what Adam was made.

He emptied himself of his divine rights and powers. He was the second Adam who chose not to sin.

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

In review to a previous conversation we had....

Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Rom 3:13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

This is a reference to humanity much later than Adam. You can't trace these words back to Adam himself. You're referencing the words of David concerning the foolishness of mankind long after Adam.

Man became worse and worse.

The context are the fools of Psa 14:1.

Psa 14:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Psa 14:3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Cain and Abel were after Adam! QED

Doug

 

[GallagherM]

I do like its summary. Over all, I'm not fond of it. I prefer Grok but to each his own.... Thanks for sharing.

Py,
No problem I think its a highly unbiased system. I do have to tell it to remember : Jesus never took the Wrath of God sometimes lol and it was only ISrael that did.

Thank you for the reminder of Grok.

 

[TibiasDad]

So Adam didn't sin?

I didn’t say that at all! So the rest of your comment is irrelevant.

Doug

 

[praise_yeshua]

I didn’t say that at all! So the rest of your comment is irrelevant.

Doug

So Adam must have been able to lust ..... right?

So how is that perfection? Do you plan to face Eternity glorified along with Christ and still face imperfection?

 

[TibiasDad]

Doug,

That's all you can do, then you can just walk away. Sometimes you can't change people and their minds. No matter how much effort you put in.

I agree with you completely! But changing their mind is not the primary goal of my debating. I argue to verify the validity of my own thinking, and secondly to simply give an alternative perspective on the subject matter. Sometimes, however, the opposing view is just wrong, sometimes dangerously so, and I cannot just let it ride!


Doug

 

[GallagherM]

I agree with you completely! But changing their mind is not the primary goal of my debating. I argue to verify the validity of my own thinking, and secondly to simply give an alternative perspective on the subject matter. Sometimes, however, the opposing view is just wrong, sometimes dangerously so, and I cannot just let it ride!


Doug

TD
Sounds boring. But okay. Whatever you need to do to get that dopamine fix.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Cain and Abel were after Adam! QED

Doug

David and Paul both are referencing after Cain and Abel. Not Cain and Abel.

In review. Romans 1 sets the "stage" for Paul's argument to those at Rome. Paul deals with those before the flood. Those were destroyed because they refused to acknowledge God. Fools as referenced in Psalm 14 found in Romans 3.

You know, the one you like to use to insist Abel sinned. Abel was righteous. No record exists that says that Abel sinned. In fact we have...

Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

The entire world BECAME sinful. They weren't born sinful with this false sense of the necessity to sin like you believe with "concupiscence".

 

[praise_yeshua]

He emptied himself of his divine rights and powers. He was the second Adam who chose not to sin.

Doug

Divine rights.... Geesh.

He never lost His power. He just didn't use it. That is what God does even now. He doesn't use the power He has to destroy because He is merciful and gracious.

Joh 13:13 Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.

 

[TibiasDad]

So Adam must have been able to lust ..... right?

So how is that perfection? Do you plan to face Eternity glorified along with Christ and still face imperfection?

Perfection? God said it was “very good”, not that it was perfection. Eternal glorification is absolute perfection, but that is not the case with Adam. It wasn’t intended to be! Adam was not impeccable!

Doug

 

[praise_yeshua]

Perfection? God said it was “very good”, not that it was perfection. Eternal glorification is absolute perfection, but that is not the case with Adam. It wasn’t intended to be! Adam was not impeccable!

Doug

We agree. Good.

Then Adam wasn't made in the image of God right? He was a work in progress. God wasn't done with Adam.

 

[TibiasDad]

He never lost His power. He just didn't use it.

That’s exactly what I said! Thanks for agreeing with me, now we’re getting somewhere!

Doug

 

[praise_yeshua]

That’s exactly what I said! Thanks for agreeing with me, now we’re getting somewhere!

Doug

We didn't say it the same way. Different choice of words. They are important but I'm glad we agree.

It want you to realize that I'm not against you. I hope you do.

 

[TibiasDad]

Then Adam wasn't made in the image of God right?

False! Adam was personable, creative, intelligent, and free to do whatever he wanted to do. He was given freedom to choose as he saw fit. Just like his creator!

Doug

 

[praise_yeshua]

False! Adam was personable, creative, intelligent, and free to do whatever he wanted to do. He was given freedom to choose as he saw fit. Just like his creator!

Doug

Similar but not identical. Can we agree?

 

[TibiasDad]

The entire world BECAME sinful.

Yep, after Adam sinned!

Doug

 

[praise_yeshua]

False! Adam was personable, creative, intelligent, and free to do whatever he wanted to do. He was given freedom to choose as he saw fit. Just like his creator!

Doug

Also, you said Christ was Impeccable. Adam wasn't Impeccable. Can you please reconcile this?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yep, after Adam sinned!

Doug

After Satan sinned.

Who do you want to start with? Why Adam? Abel didn't sin like Adam...

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.