Christendom's Trinity: Where Did It Come From?

[synergy]

The Father is God alone according to John 17:3 so if the Word is God also, then Jesus lied about who God is.

Nobody lied when John 1:1 declared that "the Word was God". It's your judaizing heretical mind that can't face the truth.

In order to keep a balance, we must look at the ways that John 1:1 is translated and how the rest of the Bible can inform it. We know the Word is not The God so we know that the Word is either indefinite or qualitative.

It's qualitative in the attributes of God such as omnipresence, omnipotence, and omniscience is concerned. I'm sure you don't consider God as having attributes any less than that.

John called the Word a thing in 1 John 1:1-3 and Acts 4:23-27,27 John proved he didn't believe the Word is the Sovereign Lord or Creator.

Again and again, you continue to display your willful ignorance of Greek. John makes use of Greek-styled neuter pronouns in 1 John 1 to refer to an abstracted or collective reality, as he did in John 3:6: “That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” We can all agree that a thing is not born of Spirit, people are. Right?

The Word is simply poetic about the God's words, as "word" literally means something said or spoken.

Now we're off to your imaginary Never Never Land of poetry and fanatsies. You can keep your fantasies to yourself.

Where you eisegesis comes in is you contradict all of these things and define a god that no one ever even talked about. You are no intellectually honest scholar.

I don't mind contradicting your blindness to the fact that "the Word was God", or contradicting your thinking that God is not omnipresent, or contradicting your willful ignorance of Biblical Greek, or contradicting your imagined fantasies.

 

[Peterlag]

Terms found nowhere in Scripture...

• Deity
• Co-equal
• Co-eternal
• Incarnated
• Eternal son
• Infinite son
• God the son
• One substance
• Persons of God
• God became man
• Eternally begotten
• Pre-existent Christ
• God the Holy Spirit
• Pre-incarnate Christ
• Three persons, three in one
• Trinity, Triune God, Tri-unity
• Two nature's, Hypostatic union

Or any combination of 1st person, 2nd person, 3rd person.

The Doctrine of the Trinity is not taught anywhere in the Bible. This should be all the evidence any normal person would need to understand that the Trinity is not Biblical. Here's some of the BS I have heard over the years...

• It's there.
• It's a mystery.
• You need to be born again to see it.
• God did not mean for us to understand.
• You need to learn Greek and Hebrew to see it.
• Humans cannot understand the things of God.
• It's hidden because God had to keep it a secret.
• You have to find all the pieces... hints and clues.
• You need to ask the Holy Spirit to show it to you.

 

[mikesw]

Correct it says absolutely nothing about that Mike. Jesus nor anyone else ever talked about the story you keep writing every where on this board.

I suppose your confusing answer means you assume, against the point I made, that a verse that says nothing against the preexisting One becoming incarnate thereby proves against the preexistence. I figure that is the confusion that underlies all of unitarianism.

 

[Runningman]

Nobody lied when John 1:1 declared that "the Word was God". It's your judaizing heretical mind that can't face the truth.

It's qualitative in the attributes of God such as omnipresence, omnipotence, and omniscience is concerned. I'm sure you don't consider God as having attributes any less than that.

Again and again, you continue to display your willful ignorance of Greek. John makes use of Greek-styled neuter pronouns in 1 John 1 to refer to an abstracted or collective reality, as he did in John 3:6: “That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” We can all agree that a thing is not born of Spirit, people are. Right?

Now we're off to your imaginary Never Never Land of poetry and fanatsies. You can keep your fantasies to yourself.

I don't mind contradicting your blindness to the fact that "the Word was God", or contradicting your thinking that God is not omnipresent, or contradicting your willful ignorance of Biblical Greek, or contradicting your imagined fantasies.

Yet we still have the Father being God alone (John 17:3) so what is your work around for that? State it clearly without trying to change it.

 

[Runningman]

I suppose your confusing answer means you assume, against the point I made, that a verse that says nothing against the preexisting One becoming incarnate thereby proves against the preexistence. I figure that is the confusion that underlies all of unitarianism.

You spoke the truth for the first time I have witnessed on this forum and when you did you got an agreement out of me. You actually plainly stated what the Bible doesn't mention and you were correct! It indeed does not mention a pre-existent incarnate Jesus. Whether accidental or intentional, you have revealed your hand that you actually have awareness of what the Bible says and doesn't say and you aren't just always mindlessly parroting trinitarian propaganda. I can work with that.

Let's begin small. Do you also recognize that the Bible doesn't say Jesus is a pre-existent one or incarnated?

 

[mikesw]

You spoke the truth for the first time I have witnessed on this forum and when you did you got an agreement out of me. You actually plainly stated what the Bible doesn't mention and you were correct! It indeed does not mention a pre-existent incarnate Jesus. Whether accidental or intentional, you have revealed your hand that you actually have awareness of what the Bible says and doesn't say and you aren't just always mindlessly parroting trinitarian propaganda. I can work with that.

Let's begin small. Do you also recognize that the Bible doesn't say Jesus is a pre-existent one or incarnated?

You want me to disagree with the scriptures that show the preexistence of Christ and the Word becoming flesh? That is rather a distasteful thing to ask. Also, you rely on discussions limited to the Unitarian Pocket dictionary rather than to rational discussion.

I just pointed out that your use of Zechariah in attempt to discredit clear examples is a common unitarian error of interpretation -- hopefully just an error. (see post angel of the Lord)

 

[synergy]

Yet we still have the Father being God alone (John 17:3) so what is your work around for that? State it clearly without trying to change it.

Why do I even need a workaround for the word "alone" that's not even in the text??? Sorry, your words do not override Scripture.

So there you have it. You are willfully blindness to the fact that "the Word was God", you change the attributes of God at will, you willfully ignore Biblical Greek, and you force your imagined fantasies on us. Anything more?

 

[Rockerduck]

If the spirit is telling you that Jesus is God. That spirit is not from God. The spirit from God will say that Jesus came in the flesh. The false spirit will say God came in the flesh. There's your test of the spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Runningman]

Why do I even need a workaround for the word "alone" that's not even in the text??? Sorry, your words do not override Scripture.

So there you have it. You are willfully blindness to the fact that "the Word was God", you change the attributes of God at will, you willfully ignore Biblical Greek, and you force your imagined fantasies on us. Anything more?

The Father is a He, Jesus is a he, the Father and Jesus together are a we/our (John 14:23) demonstrating that normal pronoun usage shows distinction between the Father and Jesus. The Father is the true God "alone" as a He (John 17:1-3) showing that the true God is not a they/them/we/our, so that means no trinity. You all have confused the language so many years you can't even see straight. I have no idea how you all get by in day-to-day conversations.

So yeah you're going to need a workaround for Scripture making your multi-person god theory an impossibility.

 

[Runningman]

Why do I even need a workaround for the word "alone" that's not even in the text???

And I want to comment on your error here since you have made the mistake of not doing your homework. Yes, the word "alone" is explicitly stated in bright red letters in the Greek of John 17:3. Monos μόνος (G3441) means Alone, only, solitary, single. Now your workaround?

 

[Doug Brents]

And I want to comment on your error here since you have made the mistake of not doing your homework. Yes, the word "alone" is explicitly stated in bright red letters in the Greek of John 17:3. Monos μόνος (G3441) means Alone, only, solitary, single. Now your workaround?

Is the Father, God? Absolutely He is (John 17:3).
Is Jesus one with the Father? Again, absolutely He is (John 1:1, John 10:30).
If the Father is God, and Jesus is united to the Father as one, then Jesus is God, just as John 1:1 says He is.

 

[synergy]

And I want to comment on your error here since you have made the mistake of not doing your homework. Yes, the word "alone" is explicitly stated in bright red letters in the Greek of John 17:3. Monos μόνος (G3441) means Alone, only, solitary, single. Now your workaround?

No workaround required when there is no manipulation of "the only true God" phrase, as you attempted, since that phrase promotes Monotheism.

So when will you start to accept the fact that "the Word was God"? Everyone of your futile workarounds have been shot down.

 

[Runningman]

No workaround required when there is no manipulation of "the only true God" phrase, as you attempted, since that phrase promotes Monotheism.

So when will you start to accept the fact that "the Word was God"? Everyone of your futile workarounds have been shot down.

John 17:3 states the Father is the True God Alone. You can't change the Greek and you won't be allowed to bury it. You cannot accept it because your heart is filled with lies about a fake god that does not exist. Why do you not believe the Bible?

 

[synergy]

The Father is a He, Jesus is a he, the Father and Jesus together are a we/our (John 14:23) demonstrating that normal pronoun usage shows distinction between the Father and Jesus. The Father is the true God "alone" as a He (John 17:1-3) showing that the true God is not a they/them/we/our, so that means no trinity. You all have confused the language so many years you can't even see straight. I have no idea how you all get by in day-to-day conversations.

So yeah you're going to need a workaround for Scripture making your multi-person god theory an impossibility.

Crack open your Old Testament and read where God said let us make man in our Image. Nobody was made in any angel's image.

 

[Runningman]

Crack open your Old Testament and read where God said let us make man in our Image. Nobody was made in any angel's image.

That doesn't define God as a we our our. With unwavering consistency, God is defined as a He, Him, His, I, You, etc thousands of times, but never a we or our, which is completely out of line with your claims.

 

[synergy]

John 17:3 states the Father is the True God Alone. You can't change the Greek and you won't be allowed to bury it. You cannot accept it because your heart is filled with lies about a fake god that does not exist. Why do you not believe the Bible?

"τον μονον αληθινον θεον" translates directly to "the only true God" which is Monotheism. You can't change the Greek and you won't be allowed to bury it. You cannot accept it because your heart is filled with lies about a fake god that does not exist. Why do you not believe the Bible?

 

[Runningman]

"τον μονον αληθινον θεον" translates directly to "the only true God" which is Monotheism. You can't change the Greek and you won't be allowed to bury it. You cannot accept it because your heart is filled with lies about a fake god that does not exist. Why do you not believe the Bible?

The devil in you wishes it could twist the scripture and erase the fact that the Greek explicitly states of the Father that He alone is the true God, but it can't and neither can you. You cannot believe the truth. Not only that, you detest the truth.

This is about you:

Ephesians 4
18They are darkened in their understanding and alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardness of their hearts.

 

[synergy]

That doesn't define God as a we our our. With unwavering consistency, God is defined as a He, Him, His, I, You, etc thousands of times, but never a we or our, which is completely out of line with your claims.

The Old Testament is not out of line when it recorded God as saying let us make man in our Image. You can rant against the Old Testament all you want but it's not going anywhere. Also, nobody was made in an angel's image.

 

[synergy]

The devil in you wishes it could twist the scripture and erase the fact that the Greek explicitly states of the Father that He alone is the true God, but it can't and neither can you. You cannot believe the truth. Not only that, you detest the truth.

I quoted the Greek words exactly as they are present in John 17:3. If you can't stand that fact then that's just too bad for you.

You can't change the Greek and you won't be allowed to bury it. You cannot accept it because your heart is filled with lies about a fake god that does not exist. Why do you not believe the Bible?

This is about you:

Ephesians 4
18They are darkened in their understanding and alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardness of their hearts.

The Apostles were not darkened in their understanding when they wrote John 17:3 exactly as I quoted it for you, not to mention John 1:1 that you continue to avoid like the plague.

 

[civic]

I quoted the Greek words exactly as they are present in John 17:3. If you can't stand that fact then that's just too bad for you.

You can't change the Greek and you won't be allowed to bury it. You cannot accept it because your heart is filled with lies about a fake god that does not exist. Why do you not believe the Bible?

The Apostles were not darkened in their understanding when they wrote John 17:3 exactly as I quoted it for you, not to mention John 1:1 that you continue to avoid like the plague.

John 17:1-5 support the Trinity and refute the unitarians.