Christendom's Trinity: Where Did It Come From?

[amazing grace]

They are one in the nature of being God amazing grace.
The word "God" is not the personal name of the Father, it is His divine nature. (Rom 1:20, Acts 17:29)

The testimony of TWO people is true . . . Jesus is one who bears witness about himself and the Father who sent him bears witness about him . . . If Jesus is God and the Father is God and here they are referenced as two separate and distinct individuals does that equal two gods? If not, why not?

So, we are to understand John 8:16-18 as reading/meaning "the testimony of TWO 'in nature of being God' is true . . . . I, Jesus, bear witness about myself ----- my nature and the nature of my Father bears witness about me."

What about the law from the OT which Jesus is referencing? A single witness shall not suffice against a person for any crime or for any wrong in connection with any offense that he has committed. Only on the evidence of two witnesses or of three witnesses shall a charge be established. Is it meant in the same manner, i.e. in reference of 'divine nature'? Is that how the Jews would have understood this law? Did Paul also have this same understanding when he referenced this in 2 Cor. 13:1 - I don't believe so.

 

[Runningman]

Classical Jews do interpret Psalms 45 refers to the Jewish Messiah Runningman, see Wikipedia below.

According to classical Jewish sources, Psalm 45 refers to the Jewish Messiah. According to Metzudot, a classical Jewish commentary, the king mentioned in verse 2 is the Jewish Messiah. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psalm_45.

If the one called "God" in that verses is king Solomon, do you believe that he is really God Runningman?

There are too many Jewish commentaries to quote where they believe Psalm 45:6,7 is about king Solomon

[Psalms 45:6] THY THRONE, O GOD, IS FOR EVER AND EVER: THE SCEPTRE OF THY KINGDOM IS A RIGHT SCEPTRE.
<<THY THRONE, O GOD>>: This is also explained from the Hebrew as referring to the Messiah whose throne is like the throne of God just as the throne of King Solomon was called the throne of God.
"THEN SOLOMON SAT ON THE THRONE OF THE LORD AS KING INSTEAD OF DAVID HIS FATHER, AND PROSPERED; AND ALL ISRAEL OBEYED HIM" [1-Chronicles 29:23].

source: https://britam.org/psalms/psalms45.html

Jews don't translate Psalm 45:6 (Psalm 45:7 in the Jewish Bible) as a reference to a god because Trinitarians have confused the issue with their translation: https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16266/jewish/Chapter-45.htm

Tehillim (Psalms) - Chapter 45
7Your throne, O judge, [will exist] forever and ever; the scepter of equity is the scepter of your kingdom.
8You loved righteousness and you hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, anointed you with oil of joy from among your peers.

 

[Capbook]

So, we are to understand John 8:16-18 as reading/meaning "the testimony of TWO 'in nature of being God' is true . . . . I, Jesus, bear witness about myself ----- my nature and the nature of my Father bears witness about me."

Yes, that Father bears witness to the Son as God.
How many "God" you can read in Heb 1:9 then?
Is the Almighty God the Father calling Jesus as "God" believable as true or not?

If we understand the verses below through context, that would mean if Jesus testifies about Himself outside verse 30, His testimony would not be true.

Joh 5:30 "I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
Joh 5:31 "If I alone testify about Myself, My testimony is not true.
Joh 5:32 "There is another who testifies of Me, and I know that the testimony which He gives about Me is true.

What about the law from the OT which Jesus is referencing? A single witness shall not suffice against a person for any crime or for any wrong in connection with any offense that he has committed. Only on the evidence of two witnesses or of three witnesses shall a charge be established. Is it meant in the same manner, i.e. in reference of 'divine nature'? Is that how the Jews would have understood this law? Did Paul also have this same understanding when he referenced this in 2 Cor. 13:1 - I don't believe so.

Well, I believe our discussion is about Jesus in the nature of God not about a crime that needs two witnesses.

 

[Capbook]

There are too many Jewish commentaries to quote where they believe Psalm 45:6,7 is about king Solomon

[Psalms 45:6] THY THRONE, O GOD, IS FOR EVER AND EVER: THE SCEPTRE OF THY KINGDOM IS A RIGHT SCEPTRE.
<<THY THRONE, O GOD>>: This is also explained from the Hebrew as referring to the Messiah whose throne is like the throne of God just as the throne of King Solomon was called the throne of God.
"THEN SOLOMON SAT ON THE THRONE OF THE LORD AS KING INSTEAD OF DAVID HIS FATHER, AND PROSPERED; AND ALL ISRAEL OBEYED HIM" [1-Chronicles 29:23].

source: https://britam.org/psalms/psalms45.html

Jews don't translate Psalm 45:6 (Psalm 45:7 in the Jewish Bible) as a reference to a god because Trinitarians have confused the issue with their translation: https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16266/jewish/Chapter-45.htm

Tehillim (Psalms) - Chapter 45
7Your throne, O judge, [will exist] forever and ever; the scepter of equity is the scepter of your kingdom.
8You loved righteousness and you hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, anointed you with oil of joy from among your peers.

If Psa 45:6 refers to King Solomon Runningman, then again where in the New Testament the forever and ever throne of King Solomon be found?
And I know that Unitarians can read the word "God" in Heb 1:8,9, twice mentioned in reference to Jesus, and no word about "human."
Apostle Paul had warned us to learn not to exceed to what is written so that we will not become arrogant.

1Co 4:6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other.

 

[amazing grace]

Yes, that Father bears witness to the Son as God.

That is NEITHER section of scripture John 5:31-34 nor John 8:16-18 say anything or witness anyone equal to or the same as God. In fact if you read John 8:16-18 which speaks of the testimony of two people being true - one person being Jesus whom you say is 'God' and the other person identified as the Father whom we know is God . . . you have two Gods.

How many "God" you can read in Heb 1:9 then?

One. ---- therefore God, your God.

Is the Almighty God the Father calling Jesus as "God" believable as true or not?

Scripture does call Jesus 'God' in a couple if places; Moses was also called 'God', judges and kings were called 'God' ---- none were the LORD God Almighty. Jesus called Peter 'Satan' [Matt. 16:23] was Peter Satan?

If we understand the verses below through context, that would mean if Jesus testifies about Himself outside verse 30, His testimony would not be true.

Joh 5:30 "I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
Joh 5:31 "If I alone testify about Myself, My testimony is not true.
Joh 5:32 "There is another who testifies of Me, and I know that the testimony which He gives about Me is true.

Well, I believe our discussion is about Jesus in the nature of God not about a crime that needs two witnesses.

Yep, the testimony of two ---- Jesus' Father who is God - the one who sent him - gives testimony of his Son, Jesus Christ.------

For the works that the Father has given me to accomplish, the very works that I am doing, bear witness about me that the Father has sent me. [John 5:36b]

 

[Capbook]

That is NEITHER section of scripture John 5:31-34 nor John 8:16-18 say anything or witness anyone equal to or the same as God. In fact if you read John 8:16-18 which speaks of the testimony of two people being true - one person being Jesus whom you say is 'God' and the other person identified as the Father whom we know is God . . . you have two Gods.

One. ---- therefore God, your God.

Amazing grace, my question is how many "God" you can read in Heb 1:9?"
Now, read your response again, I colored one red and the other one blue.

Scripture does call Jesus 'God' in a couple if places; Moses was also called 'God', judges and kings were called 'God' ---- none were the LORD God Almighty. Jesus called Peter 'Satan' [Matt. 16:23] was Peter Satan?

Yep, the testimony of two ---- Jesus' Father who is God - the one who sent him - gives testimony of his Son, Jesus Christ.------

For the works that the Father has given me to accomplish, the very works that I am doing, bear witness about me that the Father has sent me. [John 5:36b]

Yes, the Scripture and the Almighty God the Father Himself called Jesus God in Heb 1:8.
We have to learn not to exceed to what is written amazing grace otherwise we will become arrogant.

1Co 4:6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other.

 

[amazing grace]

Amazing grace, my question is how many "God" you can read in Heb 1:9?"
Now, read your response again, I colored one red and the other one blue.

I read the word 'God' being mentioned twice - referencing the SAME God ---- Therefore God, YOUR God, i.e. the Son's God has anointed him above his companions.

Yes, the Scripture and the Almighty God the Father Himself called Jesus God in Heb 1:8.
We have to learn not to exceed to what is written amazing grace otherwise we will become arrogant.

1Co 4:6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other.

Hebrews 1:8 the Son is called God and it cannot carry the meaning of ALMIGHTY God, the Father himself BECAUSE this same verse in Psalm is calling the Israelite king celebrating his wedding - 'God' and we know that the Israelite King is NOT ALMIGHTY GOD either. Scripture does call Jesus 'God' in a couple if places; Moses was also called 'God', judges and kings were called 'God' ---- none were the LORD God Almighty. Jesus called Peter 'Satan' [Matt. 16:23] was Peter Satan?

Where did I go beyond what is written?

 

[Capbook]

I read the word 'God' being mentioned twice - referencing the SAME God ---- Therefore God, YOUR God, i.e. the Son's God has anointed him above his companions.

Do you imagine your eisegesis here amazing grace?
You make the Father anoint Himself.
And I won't believe you did not read and understand the previous text. (Heb 1:8)

Hebrews 1:8 the Son is called God and it cannot carry the meaning of ALMIGHTY God, the Father himself BECAUSE this same verse in Psalm is calling the Israelite king celebrating his wedding - 'God' and we know that the Israelite King is NOT ALMIGHTY GOD either. Scripture does call Jesus 'God' in a couple if places; Moses was also called 'God', judges and kings were called 'God' ---- none were the LORD God Almighty. Jesus called Peter 'Satan' [Matt. 16:23] was Peter Satan?

Where did I go beyond what is written?

Yes, you exceed to what is written, where in the text that says "it cannot carry the meaning of ALMIGHTY God," amazing grace?
Yes, and good "Scripture does call Jesus 'God' in a couple of places" because He really is in the nature of God.(Col 2:9)
Do you believe Moses and others are really God amazing grace?

 

[amazing grace]

Do you imagine your eisegesis here amazing grace?
You make the Father anoint Himself.
And I won't believe you did not read and understand the previous text. (Heb 1:8)

No, not at all. The verse is written to the SON . . .

• your throne, O God (giving the title of 'God' to the Son (the same title 'God' given to the Israelite king at Psalm 45), . . .
• You (the Son) have loved righteousness and hated wickedness,
• Therefore God (the Son's Father) YOUR God (the Son's God, i.e. His Father) has anointed you (the Son) beyond your (the Son's) companions

Yes, you exceed to what is written, where in the text that says "it cannot carry the meaning of ALMIGHTY God," amazing grace?
Yes, and good "Scripture does call Jesus 'God' in a couple of places" because He really is in the nature of God.(Col 2:9)
Do you believe Moses and others are really God amazing grace?

No, I don't believe Moses and others are really God nor do I believe that Jesus is God which is why I referenced them.

 

[Capbook]

No, not at all. The verse is written to the SON . . .

• your throne, O God (giving the title of 'God' to the Son (the same title 'God' given to the Israelite king at Psalm 45), . . .
• You (the Son) have loved righteousness and hated wickedness,
• Therefore God (the Son's Father) YOUR God (the Son's God, i.e. His Father) has anointed you (the Son) beyond your (the Son's) companions

No, I don't believe Moses and others are really God nor do I believe that Jesus is God which is why I referenced them.

Yes, if you interpret Psa 45:6,7 refers to a human king, can you help me find his forever and ever throne in the New Testament?
Let me simplify your emphasis on Heb 1:9, see below and realize the eisegesis;
Whose voice that said the "therefore" amazing grace?

• Therefore God(the Father) YOUR God (the Father) has anointed you (the Son) beyond your (the Son's) companions

 

[amazing grace]

Yes, if you interpret Psa 45:6,7 refers to a human king, can you help me find his forever and ever throne in the New Testament?
Let me simplify your emphasis on Heb 1:9, see below and realize the eisegesis;
Whose voice that said the "therefore" amazing grace?

• Therefore God(the Father) YOUR God (the Father) has anointed you (the Son) beyond your (the Son's) companions

2 Samuel 7:10-13,16 When your (David) days are fulfilled and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring after you, who shall come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be to him a father and he shall be to me a son......And your house and your kingdom shall be established forever. A promise to David of establishing a forever throne through one of his descendants..... The wedding song in Psalm is to a Davidic king - the forever throne is through the Son Jesus Christ, a descendant of David who inherits the throne of David. . . . . He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David,

Who is speaking? - But concerning the Son HE SAYS - God said.
So he wouldn't be addressing the 'Son' as himself because he is not speaking to himself: Your Throne O God - a title given to the Son who inherits the throne
Therefore God - the God and Father of Jesus Christ ----- Your God - the God of the Son (Jesus) who is the God and Father of Jesus Christ has anointed you (Jesus) beyond your companions.

..... nothing more needs to be said

 

[Capbook]

2 Samuel 7:10-13,16 When your (David) days are fulfilled and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring after you, who shall come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be to him a father and he shall be to me a son......And your house and your kingdom shall be established forever. A promise to David of establishing a forever throne through one of his descendants..... The wedding song in Psalm is to a Davidic king - the forever throne is through the Son Jesus Christ, a descendant of David who inherits the throne of David. . . . . He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David,

The fact that the Father said to the Son, Your throne, O God, do the written word "God" here be read as human amazing grace?
Be aware amazing grace that apostle Paul advised us to learn not to exceed to what is written so that we will not become arrogant.

1Co 4:6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other.

Who is speaking? - But concerning the Son HE SAYS - God said.
So he wouldn't be addressing the 'Son' as himself because he is not speaking to himself: Your Throne O God - a title given to the Son who inherits the throne
Therefore God - the God and Father of Jesus Christ ----- Your God - the God of the Son (Jesus) who is the God and Father of Jesus Christ has anointed you (Jesus) beyond your companions.

..... nothing more needs to be said

Let me elaborate your eisegesis amazing grace about verse 9. See below your misinterpretation.
God the Father said, "therefore God the Father," your God the Father - hope you can see now your unfolded trick of words amazing grace.

 

[amazing grace]

The fact that the Father said to the Son, Your throne, O God, do the written word "God" here be read as human amazing grace?
Be aware amazing grace that apostle Paul advised us to learn not to exceed to what is written so that we will not become arrogant.

1Co 4:6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other.

I do believe that 'your throne, O God' is written concerning a human.
The Son of God, Jesus is a human son. The same verse in Psalm is addressed to a human king.

Let me elaborate your eisegesis amazing grace about verse 9. See below your misinterpretation.
God the Father said, "therefore God the Father," your God the Father - hope you can see your unfolded trick of words amazing grace.

Thanks for your elaboration but I feel perfectly fine with my understanding of verse 9.

 

[Capbook]

I do believe that 'your throne, O God' is written concerning a human.

Firstly, what is written in the text is the word "God" not man.
Second, do you really believe in your interpretation that the king you are referring to is really "God"?

The Son of God, Jesus is a human son. The same verse in Psalm is addressed to a human king.

Amazing grace I believe you know you who is the Father of Jesus that He is called the "Son of God."
And is also known to you that Jesus mother is Mary, that He is called as the "Son of Man."
Is the above statements true or not amazing grace?

Thanks for your elaboration but I feel perfectly fine with my understanding of verse 9.

I believe that is not understanding amazing grace.
I may label it as misunderstanding.
Be aware knowing who Jesus really is involves eternal life. (John 17:3,1John 5:20)

 

[amazing grace]

Firstly, what is written in the text is the word "God" not man.
Second, do you really believe in your interpretation that the king you are referring to is really "God"?

OMGosh it's not that complicated.
Psalm 45, which is being quoted here in Hebrews is written as a wedding song to a human Israelite king - 'Your Throne O God'. Is that calling the king 'God'? NO. Is the verse in Hebrews calling the Son 'God'? Absolutely not.

'god' elohim or theos does not always mean Almighty God. Human judges are called gods----- Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken— so no, the text is not saying the king is God nor is the text saying the Son is God.

Amazing grace I believe you know you who is the Father of Jesus that He is called the "Son of God."
And is also known to you that Jesus mother is Mary, that He is called as the "Son of Man."
Is the above statements true or not amazing grace?

Yes, Jesus carries the titles Son of God and Son of Man. God is his Father and Mary is his Mother.

I believe that is not understanding amazing grace.
I may label it as misunderstanding.
Be aware knowing who Jesus really is involves eternal life. (John 17:3,1John 5:20)

I know that eternal life is knowing the Father, the only true God and Jesus Christ whom the Father sent.
Yep, we know the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding so that we may know him that is true (John 17:3) and we are in him that is true (John 17:3), even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God (John 17:3) and eternal life.

 

[Capbook]

OMGosh it's not that complicated.
Psalm 45, which is being quoted here in Hebrews is written as a wedding song to a human Israelite king - 'Your Throne O God'. Is that calling the king 'God'? NO. Is the verse in Hebrews calling the Son 'God'? Absolutely not.

Are we more in authority to interpret the oracles of God entrusted to the Jews amazing grace? (Rom 3:1,2)
Or we just need to stand to our preconceived beliefs?
Classical Jews interpret it to refer to their Jewish Messiah, and as to Christians is to Jesus, referred as "God" in verses 5&6 more clearly stated in Heb 1:8,9.

According to classical Jewish sources, Psalm 45 refers to the Jewish Messiah. According to Metzudot, a classical Jewish commentary, the king mentioned in verse 2 is the Jewish Messiah. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psalm_45

'god' elohim or theos does not always mean Almighty God. Human judges are called gods----- Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken— so no, the text is not saying the king is God nor is the text saying the Son is God.

Do you believe that human judges are really God amazing grace.
Yes, the Scripture cannot be broken, when its original wordings of the text render Jesus as the "only begotten God" in John 1:18,
supported by the oldest manuscripts, the papyri 66 and 75.
There various readings but they were not described as "original wordings."

John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten GodN7 who is in the bosom of the Father,N8 that one has made him fully known.

N7 John 1:18 (UASV+)The original words were μονογενὴς θεός or ο μονογενης θεος “only-begotten God” or “the only-begotten God” (P66 P75 א B C* L 33 syrhmp 33 copbo) A variant reading is ο μονογενης υιος “the only begotten Son” A C3 (Ws) Θ Ψ f1, Maj syrc).

Yes, Jesus carries the titles Son of God and Son of Man. God is his Father and Mary is his Mother.

Good, as I believe dog bears puppy,(dog in nature) and cat bears kitten(cat in nature). Do you also believe that amazing grace?
1. If Jesus is called the "Son of Man," as His mother is human. Is He man or not?
2. And if Jesus is called the "Son of God," as His Father is God. Is He God or not?
Why the honest and logical answer to question 1, amazing grace cannot be applied to the second question?
Can you explain?

I know that eternal life is knowing the Father, the only true God and Jesus Christ whom the Father sent.
Yep, we know the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding so that we may know him that is true (John 17:3) and we are in him that is true (John 17:3), even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God (John 17:3) and eternal life.

Amazing grace, the Father's testimony speaks of eternal life is in His Son Jesus. (1John 5:11)
And if we do not have the Son, we also will not have that eternal life. (1John 5:12)
Do the Father's testimony expires 9 verses onward amazing grace?
Be aware again, that if we deny Jesus words that He is the life, means eternal life in John 14:6 and 1John 5:20, we can't have that eternal life.

 

[amazing grace]

Are we more in authority to interpret the oracles of God entrusted to the Jews amazing grace? (Rom 3:1,2)
Or we just need to stand to our preconceived beliefs?
Classical Jews interpret it to refer to their Jewish Messiah, and as to Christians is to Jesus, referred as "God" in verses 5&6 more clearly stated in Heb 1:8,9.

According to classical Jewish sources, Psalm 45 refers to the Jewish Messiah. According to Metzudot, a classical Jewish commentary, the king mentioned in verse 2 is the Jewish Messiah. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psalm_45

The Jews NEVER would refer to their Messiah as 'God' - they have only one God whose own personal name is Yahweh.
'god' elohim/theos can refer to angels, judges, demons, the devil other beings outside of the Almighty. ---- look it up.
If you want to reference a source I just think you could do better than Wikipedia.org.

Do you believe that human judges are really God amazing grace.
Yes, the Scripture cannot be broken, when its original wordings of the text render Jesus as the "only begotten God" in John 1:18,
supported by the oldest manuscripts, the papyri 66 and 75.

No I do not believe human judges are the true God but they are called gods-----elohim carries that meaning elohim - 1. (plural) 1. rulers, judges, 2. divine ones; 3. angels; 4. gods 2. (plural intensive - singular meaning) 1. god, goddess; 2. godlike one; 3. works or special possessions of God; 4. the (true) God; 5. God
Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken—

There various readings but they were not described as "original wordings."

John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten GodN7 who is in the bosom of the Father,N8 that one has made him fully known.

N7 John 1:18 (UASV+)The original words were μονογενὴς θεός or ο μονογενης θεος “only-begotten God” or “the only-begotten God” (P66 P75 א B C* L 33 syrhmp 33 copbo) A variant reading is ο μονογενης υιος “the only begotten Son” A C3 (Ws) Θ Ψ f1, Maj syrc).

Good, as I believe dog bears puppy,(dog in nature) and cat bears kitten(cat in nature). Do you also believe that amazing grace?
1. If Jesus is called the "Son of Man," as His mother is human. Is He man or not?
2. And if Jesus is called the "Son of God," as His Father is God. Is He God or not?
Why the honest and logical answer to question 1, amazing grace cannot be applied to the second question?
Can you explain?

Yes, a dog bears a dog, a cat bears a cat. And that is producing after their kind as stated in

And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds—livestock and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so. And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that creeps on the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. etc., etc., They produce according to their kinds through their DNA, through their reproductive process.
Jesus is called - he is titled Son of Man and Son of God. Yes, his mother is a human being and yes, God is his Father but it's not the same because there was NO NORMAL reproductive process so it can't be compared to a dog having a dog, a cat having a cat, a bird laying an egg and hatching a bird. When the Holy Spirit the power of the Most High overshadowed Mary a miraculous creation to place in the womb of Mary. . . . NO DNA, NO NORMAL procreation. A MIRACLE!

Amazing grace, the Father's testimony speaks of eternal life is in His Son Jesus. (1John 5:11)
And if we do not have the Son, we also will not have that eternal life. (1John 5:12)
Do the Father's testimony expires 9 verses onward amazing grace?
Be aware again, that if we deny Jesus words that He is the life, means eternal life in John 14:6 and 1John 5:20, we can't have that eternal life.

Do I believe the testimony of God that he has told us concerning his Son --- yes, I do.
AND THIS IS THE TESTIMONY - THAT GOD GAVE US ETERNAL LIFE AND THIS LIFE IS IN HIS SON -----
For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will......For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. (John 5:21,26)
Yep, no one comes to the Father except through Jesus Christ, the Son.
Yep, I believe in the Son of God . . . Jesus Christ.

And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him (God) who is true; and we are in him (God) who is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. [1 John 5:20] - And this is eternal life that they may know you, the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. [John 17:3]
God's word fits together so great . . . when it harmonizes, it just flows!

 

[Capbook]

The Jews NEVER would refer to their Messiah as 'God' - they have only one God whose own personal name is Yahweh.
'god' elohim/theos can refer to angels, judges, demons, the devil other beings outside of the Almighty. ---- look it up.
If you want to reference a source I just think you could do better than Wikipedia.org.

Yes, they may not refer their Messiah as God but the fact that they interpret it outside to a human king matters, amazing grace.
Do you believe that angels, judges, demons, etc are really God?
And do Scriptures call them the "only begotten God?"
I quoted Wikipedia as it conclude Romans 3:2 amazing grace.
Unless you can present proof that you are in more authority to interpret the oracles of God that to those being entrusted.

No I do not believe human judges are the true God but they are called gods-----elohim carries that meaning elohim - 1. (plural) 1. rulers, judges, 2. divine ones; 3. angels; 4. gods 2. (plural intensive - singular meaning) 1. god, goddess; 2. godlike one; 3. works or special possessions of God; 4. the (true) God; 5. God
Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken—

Amazing grace by your response, I know that you know Jesus is referred by the uppercase "God," and those others you enumerated you write in lowercase "god." You've just proven the difference between the two.

Yes, a dog bears a dog, a cat bears a cat. And that is producing after their kind as stated in

And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds—livestock and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so. And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that creeps on the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. etc., etc., They produce according to their kinds through their DNA, through their reproductive process.
Jesus is called - he is titled Son of Man and Son of God. Yes, his mother is a human being and yes, God is his Father but it's not the same because there was NO NORMAL reproductive process so it can't be compared to a dog having a dog, a cat having a cat, a bird laying an egg and hatching a bird. When the Holy Spirit the power of the Most High overshadowed Mary a miraculous creation to place in the womb of Mary. . . . NO DNA, NO NORMAL procreation. A MIRACLE!

Yes, it's really a miracle, as the Word was God became flesh, the Father called Him His Son, as Son of God, Scripture record Him as the only begotten God, though in the form of God, and etc. Notice amazing grace, those were written in uppercase "G" in the
the Bible, just like what you write in your responses referring to the true God.

Do I believe the testimony of God that he has told us concerning his Son --- yes, I do.
AND THIS IS THE TESTIMONY - THAT GOD GAVE US ETERNAL LIFE AND THIS LIFE IS IN HIS SON -----
For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will......For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. (John 5:21,26)
Yep, no one comes to the Father except through Jesus Christ, the Son.
Yep, I believe in the Son of God . . . Jesus Christ.

Amazing grace you go outside the context of 1John 5:11-20, I've asked you to interpret.
If you do not have the Son, you also do not have the eternal life.
Yes, you understand that no one goes to the Father except through the Son as He is the life (eternal life).
Are you really willing to have that eternal life in 1John 5:20 through the Son amazing grace?

And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him (God) who is true; and we are in him (God) who is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. [1 John 5:20] - And this is eternal life that they may know you, the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. [John 17:3]
God's word fits together so great . . . when it harmonizes, it just flows!

Amazing grace before reading 1John 5:20, can you understand the context before it?
Specially verse 11 and 12?
You quote "no one goes to the Father except through the Son," the life.
I believe you just haven't internalize Jesus words, maybe due to rooted preconceived beliefs.

 

[amazing grace]

Yes, it's really a miracle, as the Word was God became flesh, the Father called Him His Son, as Son of God, Scripture record Him as the only begotten God, though in the form of God, and etc. Notice amazing grace, those were written in uppercase "G" in the
the Bible, just like what you write in your responses referring to the true God.

Did God lie by calling Jesus his Son? Was that deceitful if it's not true? Scripture does record him as the only begotten Son of God YET you want to insist on saying he was God!!!

Amazing grace you go outside the context of 1John 5:11-20, I've asked you to interpret.
If you do not have the Son, you also do not have the eternal life.
Yes, you understand that no one goes to the Father except through the Son as He is the life (eternal life).
Are you really willing to have that eternal life in 1John 5:20 through the Son amazing grace?

Scripture interprets scripture in the immediate context AND in the remote context.
I have the Son, therefore I have eternal life.
Thank you for your concern.

 

[civic]

Yes, they may not refer their Messiah as God but the fact that they interpret it outside to a human king matters, amazing grace.
Do you believe that angels, judges, demons, etc are really God?
And do Scriptures call them the "only begotten God?"
I quoted Wikipedia as it conclude Romans 3:2 amazing grace.
Unless you can present proof that you are in more authority to interpret the oracles of God that to those being entrusted.

Amazing grace by your response, I know that you know Jesus is referred by the uppercase "God," and those others you enumerated you write in lowercase "god." You've just proven the difference between the two.

Yes, it's really a miracle, as the Word was God became flesh, the Father called Him His Son, as Son of God, Scripture record Him as the only begotten God, though in the form of God, and etc. Notice amazing grace, those were written in uppercase "G" in the
the Bible, just like what you write in your responses referring to the true God.

Amazing grace you go outside the context of 1John 5:11-20, I've asked you to interpret.
If you do not have the Son, you also do not have the eternal life.
Yes, you understand that no one goes to the Father except through the Son as He is the life (eternal life).
Are you really willing to have that eternal life in 1John 5:20 through the Son amazing grace?

Amazing grace before reading 1John 5:20, can you understand the context before it?
Specially verse 11 and 12?
You quote "no one goes to the Father except through the Son," the life.
I believe you just haven't internalize Jesus words, maybe due to rooted preconceived beliefs.

The opposition will find any way possible to devalue Jesus and strip Him of His Divine Glory.