brightfame52
Active Member
Does God despise His own image?
Calvinists what is the image of God in man ?
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MTMattie
Active Member
I disagree.
In Gen 1 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
This before even Adam was formed in Gen 2. There is not one word in here that gives an idea that suggests it is referring... to the new man, the born-again believer who is being conformed into the image of Christ.
synergy
Active Member
Why would God despise his own image?
brightfame52
Active Member
I'm asking you? Ps 73:20
20 ;As a dream when one awaketh; so, O Lord, when thou awakest, thou shalt despise their image.
Are these ungodly people in God's Image?
synergy
Active Member
Huh? God sleeps and has to awake? Whose image is being referenced as "their" image?
brightfame52
Active Member
I'm asking you? Ps 73:20
20 ;As a dream when one awaketh; so, O Lord, when thou awakest, thou shalt despise their image.
Are these ungodly people in God's Image?
jeremiah1five
Active Member
The image of God is not unregenerate(d) man but Christ Himself. The declaration of "in our likeness" is direct reference to Christ who was prophesied by God Himself in Genesis to come. And at the appointed time He came:
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal. 4:3–5.
Saul, who studied the Old Testament (Hebrew) Scripture under the anointing receive revelation the same way we as born-again Christians receive revelation through Scripture when studied under the anointing (Gal. 1:11-12.)
And as part of his "asking, seeking, and knocking" the Lord revealed many things about the New Covenant found in Scripture and one of those things is the nature in contrast of the first Adam and the last (Christ.)
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: 1 Cor. 15:39.
Jesus Christ was born holy; man was not nor did God create man (Adam) holy. If Adam was created holy, he would not have sinned. Again, all flesh is not the same flesh.
therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. Luke 1:35.
Part of biblical doctrine is that Jesus was born of woman (Mary) and the Holy Ghost. Therefore, He is both God and man. This is the "hupostasis" (hypostatic union.) He is God 'traveling in the greatness of His power' and able to bruise the head of the serpent, and as man (offspring of Mary) presented as He to be bruised by the serpent:
Speaking to the serpent God said:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Gen. 3:15.
This was spoken to the serpent not the woman thus it applies to the serpent.
Man (Adam) was created sinful, or as the word is defined by Strong: "missing the mark."
What is the "mark" that was missed? The "mark" is the standard or glory that is God.
God is the standard by which all things in heaven and earth is judged against. And God is Trinity.
Athanasius correctly describes this tri-unity in the creed that bears his name:
The Atanasius Creed
Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;
Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;
Neither confounding the persons, nor dividing the substance.
For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost.
But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one: the glory equal, the majesty co-eternal.
Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost.
The Father uncreate, the Son uncreate, and the Holy Ghost uncreate.
The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost incomprehensible.
The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Ghost eternal.
And yet they are not three eternals, but one eternal.
As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensibles, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.
So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Ghost almighty.
And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.
So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God.
And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.
So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord.
And yet not three Lords, but one Lord.
For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;
So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say: There be three Gods, or three Lords.
The Father is made of none: neither created, nor begotten.
The Son is of the Father alone: not made, nor created, but begotten.
The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son: neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts.
And in this Trinity none is afore, or after other; none is greater, or less than another;
But the whole three Persons are co-eternal together, and co-equal.
So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.
He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.
Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man;
God, of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man, of the substance of His mother, born in the world;
Perfect God and perfect man: of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting;
Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood;
Who, although He be God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ;
One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of the manhood into God;
One altogether; not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.
For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;
Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;
He ascended into heaven, He sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God Almighty;
From whence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;
And shall give account for their own works.
And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire.
This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully, he cannot be saved.
The Athanasian Creed, while traditionally associated with Athanasius of Alexandria (c. 296–373 AD), is not believed by modern scholars to have been directly written or "revealed" by him. Instead, its attribution to Athanasius is more symbolic, reflecting his staunch defense of Trinitarian theology against Arianism during the 4th century.
But later Saul would add:
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1 Cor. 15:42–45.
In this the distinctness of the first Adam and the last Adam is described. The first Adam, created from already created matter is a result that is sinful ("missing the mark") and from the earth. The last Adam (Christ) is from above. As God, separate from created matter, and as God He is of the Holy Ghost by miracle of God.
Saul continues:
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 1 Cor. 15:46–49.
Verse 48 "As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy" are those born of the first man (Adam) and the woman.
In verse 48 "and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly" are those who are born of the Spirit.
The first Adam (man) was created sinful or sinner and in this he was created a sinner for Scripture declares the following:
6 Add thou not unto his words,
Lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Proverbs 30:6.
Scripture records the first Adam (man) and the woman before the act of disobedience, which disobedience God addressed as sin by the man "lied" when they added to God's Word:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. Gen. 3:3.
You may say to this:
for by the law is the knowledge of sin. Rom. 3:20.
Thus, saying that there is no sin if there is no law. That is true, but whether there was a command not to add to God's Word or not it is the act of their adding to God's Word that prove they were created sinful ("missing the mark") despite the absent of this restriction by God for the Tree in the Garden is called the "Tree of the KNOWLEDGE of Good and Evil" and all this tree did was to be used by God to give the first Adam KNOWLEDGE of his sinfulness. This is why he sinned in the Garden for no sin comes from he that is "holy" or "righteous" of "sinless" for the last Adam Christ was "Holy," and "Righteous" and "Sinless" and did no sin neither was guile found in His mouth. It is said in Scripture:
13 As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked: 1 Sam. 24:13.
Which can also be rendered as "sin comes from sinner."
So, at this point it is written that in our new birth by the Spiorit we are from that point forward in our beginning of our sanctification as new-born 'creatures' to be "conformed into the image of Christ (and not in the image of Adam of which we are born into this word, "sown (planted/created) in corruption." This is the resurrection from the dead for we are all born "dead in trespasses and sin." (Eph. 2:1) as the first man (Adam) was created "dead in trespasses and sin." This is inescapable. This is the Word of God.
When we are born into this world we are conformed into the earthy image of the first Adam. When we are born again, we are conformed into the image of Christ - who is from above - and who is the image of the Father.
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Col. 1:13–15.
If this can be condensed and not lose its truth, then condense it but I have answered the question of "What is the image of God in man." It is not the first Adam, but the last Adam when we are born-again, and that image is Christ, born from above, not below.
Here’s a condensed version of your text, preserving its core truth without losing its theological essence:
The image of God is not unregenerate man (Adam), but Christ, the prophesied "likeness" of God (Gen. 1:26), who came in the fullness of time (Gal. 4:4-5) to redeem us. Saul (Paul), through anointed study (Gal. 1:11-12), revealed the contrast between the first Adam, created sinful from the earth (1 Cor. 15:39-49), and the last Adam (Christ), born holy of Mary and the Holy Ghost (Luke 1:35), embodying the hypostatic union—fully God and man (Gen. 3:15). Adam, missing God’s standard (the Trinity, as per the Athanasian Creed), sinned by adding to God’s Word (Gen. 3:3; Prov. 30:6), proving his created corruption. Christ, sinless and heavenly, is the true image of God (Col. 1:15). We, born earthy in Adam’s corrupt image (Eph. 2:1), are conformed to Christ’s heavenly image when born again (1 Cor. 15:49), not to Adam’s.
This retains the key points: Christ as God’s image, Adam’s created sinfulness, the Trinity, and the transformative new birth, supported by Scripture.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Has your "man" ever ruled over the fish to make fish get into a net? That prophecy is of Christ who willed fish to get into a net. No man has ever done that and so your position lacks power of truth and truth of power.
brightfame52
Active Member
@jeremiah1five
Yeah I agree, Jesus is the Image of God 2 Cor 4:4
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
So Adam and Eve in the beginning, made in the Image of God Gen 5:1-2
This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
They were a picture, type of Christ and His Church, so their being made in the image and likeness of God is fulfilled in Redemption through Christ Rom 8:29-30
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
The non elect are not and were not made in the Image of God Gen 1:26, only the elect as seen in Christ, the Image of God, which Adam and Eve typed.
Yeah I agree, Jesus is the Image of God 2 Cor 4:4
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
So Adam and Eve in the beginning, made in the Image of God Gen 5:1-2
This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
They were a picture, type of Christ and His Church, so their being made in the image and likeness of God is fulfilled in Redemption through Christ Rom 8:29-30
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
The non elect are not and were not made in the Image of God Gen 1:26, only the elect as seen in Christ, the Image of God, which Adam and Eve typed.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
No, as I said, God declared that the new man in Christ is the image of God, image of Christ specifically, not Adam. We are born already conformed to the image of Adam, but it is the new man born of the Spirit who is conformed into the image of Christ as says the Scripture. Remember, When we are born-again is when we begin our sanctification and made/conformed daily into the image of Christ. So, Adam is not created in the image of God - the born-again Christian is.
The Church is not of the earth, earthy. It is from the Lord from heaven, and it is His body (from heaven.) 1 Cor. 15.
If Adam was created in the image of God/Christ, then that is it. There is no "being conformed into the image of God/Christ" if we are all born that way from our birth in Adam.
They cannot be "type." It is called "type and shadow," not type and type and shadow or type and shadow shadow.
Old Testament precedence lends way to New Testament reality. We cannot be "type and shadow" created in the image of God as you think Adam was. God looked forward when He said, "Let us make man in our image" for if this person never becomes born-again then they died in the image of Christ and there are no "images of Christ" in hell. Just as there are no true apostles of the Lord (Judas) in hell nor are there three-fold people (body, soul, and human spirit) in hell. There are only dichotomy people (body and soul) in hell (Matt. 10:28.)
Dear sir, You rang? I'm at your beck and call, happy to be come.Agreed which is why I’m still waiting to hear from them
To me (though not a Calvinist in the sense in which understand Calvinism, but, close enough to embrace them as my brethren with love toward them, if they have godly fruits supporting their Calvinist understanding, with to me is more important than doctrine itself in many ways. Lip service is all too easy, showing one's faith by scriptural true love for others is much more God honoring.) it is easy to see what God's image is, by seeing what the image of Jesus Christ is that the new man now possess.
Ephesians 4:22-25
“That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”Colossians 3:10
“And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:”The image of God in which God created Adam with, was the power of having spiritual knowledge, wisdom, understanding and true holiness, which image was stolen from him by the devil himself when he deceived Eve, and Adam sinned by desiring to continue to have fellowship with his wife, allow his heart to be deceived by sin.
The image Adam passed to his offspring's was his fallen nature that was corrupt according to the deceitful lust of sin.
Genesis 5:3
“And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:” Not God's likeness!Only the Spirit of God can create the likeness of Christ within us at the new birth in our new man which we are to put on daily.
Not to deep to understand.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
That is the error of many today. They elevate "love" above God's Word which is an erroneous position to take as it focuses one to observe the wrong thing.
DOCTRINE is to be elevated above the "love" of a believer because if a believer has their DOCTRINE correct, then love would exist in the believer.
What does it say? "God is love"?
Yes, but His Word is elevated even above "God is love."
2 I will worship toward thy holy temple,
And praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth:
For thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
Ps 138:2.
When a believer has their DOCTRINE correct love will be present and observable. Don't look for "love" in a believer, but ONLY if YOU have your DOCTRINE correct THEN you will see their love exhibited. BUT IF your DOCTRINE is incorrect then you will not see their love. And that is the error of many, many Christians who take issue with someone whom they THINK isn't or doesn't have love and that affects the unity of the body:
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable
for doctrine,
for reproof,
for correction,
for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
2 Ti 3:15–17.
God has commanded that His people first and foremost KNOW His Word even ABOVE His Name which is love.
Make sure you got your doctrine in all the right places so that you may see whether the DOCTRINE of another is in the right place or your false image of God will do damage to the unity of the Spirit for you will falsely accuse another who has their doctrine in the right place of not "moving/exercising in love.
Remember: DOCTRINE is above ALL that is God.
Good passage. But it is inapplicable to your statement above.
There you go. KNOWLEDGE (Doctrine) is the principle thing.
9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;, Philp 1:9.
Again, knowledge of the Word is the placeholder of all your love. No knowledge, no love; Know knowledge, know love.
If you were to understand "devil" according to the Word of God then your statement is correct. But I think you will millions of Christians see "devil" as a personage, such as Lucifer, which is incorrect.
In Greek the word "devil" is defined as "traducer" or "false accuser, liar." And "devil" was used of Judas here:
70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.
John 6:70-71.
So, what did Jesus mean? ONLY this:
The word "traducer" (the Greek definition according to Strong) means, "one who impugns the character of another", or "false accuser" and that is what Judas did or was going to do in context to his betraying Jesus to the religious leaders. He impugned the character of Jesus to the religious leaders in order to get them to believe and ultimately trust him.
Background: The religious leaders KNEW Judas was a disciple of Jesus and here he comes of his own volition seeking to arrange this conspiracy to trap Jesus. What would you think if you were part of the priests of the Sanhedrin? You wouldn't believe Judas, you would think Jesus was trying to lay His own trap to trap these priests. UNTIL they heard Judas impugn Jesus' character. Even though the priests were bad in character themselves, once Judas began to impugn the character of his rabbi, they knew that if Judas was complicit in some trap of Jesus against them, they could arrest Judas under the Law of being a "[bearing] false witness" and stone him. Jesus was not saying Judas was the devil himself or that that "Satan" or Lucifer was inciting him. It's the same thing with Jesus calling Peter "Satan." Lucifer had nothing to do with sin or evil in man. Man was a sinner all by himself and didn't need any 'angelic being' to urge one to sin. The angels that sinned were ALL locked up in darkness awaiting judgment (2 Peter 2:4.)
BECAUSE Jesus knew what was in man - and it wasn't any fallen angel - Jesus had His DOCTRINE of Scripture in the right place He knew one of His own would betray Him ("lift up his heel against Him.)
Additionally, the religious leaders had publicized their demand that if 'any knew where Jesus was, they were to tell them.' But nobody knew. Jesus would take His disciples to a secluded place to get away from the multitudes of people to rest and be alone. But one of Jesus' disciples would know the place where Jesus took His disciples to "chill." And these men were all under the Law despite their differences of attitude towards this One called the "King of Israel." Judas was a false accuser (devil) and he impugned the character of Jesus in order to convince the religious leaders of his sincerity.
There ya go. You 'got it.'
DOCTRINE.
Seeing the same Jesus and saying the same thing as God.
Not deep at all. Biblical knowledge is exalted even above the God is love.
brightfame52
Active Member
@jeremiah1five
No, its not it, its fulfilled through redemption, and being conformed to the Image of Christ. His Natural Creation was a means to a greater end. Remember, their creation was a type and picture of Christ and the Church from the beginning Eph 5:30-32
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
No, its not it, its fulfilled through redemption, and being conformed to the Image of Christ. His Natural Creation was a means to a greater end. Remember, their creation was a type and picture of Christ and the Church from the beginning Eph 5:30-32
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
So, Adam was created in the image of God and when a person becomes born again, they are changed into the image of God?
If Adam was created in the image of God what image is that? That Adam was sinless? Holy? Eternal? All three? Maybe all the substance of God, too? That would make God a reduplicator of Himself and now there are two God's.
Why would Adam need to be created (redundant) in the image of God. That would be enough. One cannot be in the image of God twice. Makes no sense.
And if Adam was created in the total image of God then he would be as God and not sin.
No, too many inconsistencies in being in God's image twice. Once would be enough. But then again Adam sinned possessing the image of God which would make God in substance a sinner, too.
Sorry, but there is ONLY ONE God, there is NONE like Him, and He gives His glory (including image) to NO ONE, as says Isaiah.
Christ and His Church are from above, not created from dust BELOW.
You make God out to be a sinner. That's why ONLY Christ is the image of the Father (God.) God is sinless, Christ is sinless. God is Holy, Christ is Holy, etc.
You make Adam to be of "Christ and His Church" when the Church is Israel, not sinful Adam.
See, there is a comparison made by Saul in First Corinthians 15.
How do I know Israel is [the] "Church"?
Because Scripture teaches it.
Israel was "called out" (the meaning of "Church") of Egypt and Jesus Christ was called out of Egypt as a Child when God told Joseph to bring Him back to Israel after everyone who sought His life had died. Adam was never "called out" (Church) of Egypt. There wasn't even an Egypt when Adam was created. So, you add to the Bible things not there (mentioned.)
We also know that God "called out" (Church) the children of Jacob/Israel in the millions and led them through the desert until they were ready to cross the Jordan River under Joshua and claim the Promised Land. The "called out" (Church) built a Tabernacle, was given God's Laws, and were a "called out" (Church) in the desert at the time of the Tabernacle - far removed from Adam's creation. Israel, as a "called out" (Church) of Egypt were a "Great Congregation" in the desert.
18 I will give thee thanks in the great congregation:
I will praise thee among much people.
Ps 35:18.
13 And there assembled at Jerusalem much people to keep the feast of unleavened bread in the second month, a very great congregation.
2 Ch 30:13.
Adam cannot be a "great congregation" of one. A sinful one, at that.
Adding to God's Word is a sin. Adam did that and proved he was a liar. Surely the image of God in Adam is not a sinner?
But define image and let's see if it fits.
It doesn't.
brightfame52
Active Member
@jeremiah1five
Yes the Image of God Adam ws Created in, Was Christ, the God Man Mediator, and its fulfilled through redemption by Him, so Adam/Man had to sin to fulfill his being made in the Image of God
Yes the Image of God Adam ws Created in, Was Christ, the God Man Mediator, and its fulfilled through redemption by Him, so Adam/Man had to sin to fulfill his being made in the Image of God
I usually suggest that since the bible ends with HIS marriage to HIS creation that created in HIS image includes being able to become a proper Bride for HIM...ie not other to HIM since we do not marry anything but other people....
People who marry their cats etc are obviously not married in the sense that GOD uses the term.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
If one is made in the image of God, it is not necessary to again be made in the image of God a second time.
There's something wrong with that belief.
brightfame52
Active Member
I dont know what you talking about
jeremiah1five
Active Member
You are saying the image of God is made twice. If one is made in the image of God there is no need to be made in the image of God again.
brightfame52
Active Member
I never said the image of God is made twice, provide that quote
