Calvinism is Gospel !

[TibiasDad]

So you deny that Jesus Christ Death was efficacious to actually save to the utmost them He died for, correct ?

It was efficacious in atonement for the sins of the whole world, appeasing the Father’s wrath and allowing for forgiveness, and thus salvation, to be extended to all men and experienced by all who actively believe in Christ.

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

@TibiasDad



This statement is a false gospel. Jesus Death actually saved them He died for, on top of that, hoever Gods wrath is appeased for has been delivered from His wrath and the wrath to come. Rom 5:9

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

1 Thess 1:10

And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

First of all, ῥυόμενον is a present tense verb, which shows active participation in an activity. He is delivering at the present time!

Moreover, he is actively delivering “us”, referring to Paul and the present tense believers at the time, and by extension, those who currently are believing.

There is no “finished” act in view here, but a continuing process moving toward a certain result, namely being saved from the final wrath of God yet to come.

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

@TibiasDad

It was efficacious in atonement for the sins of the whole world, appeasing the Father’s

And yet the whole world isnt saved, and are under Gods wrath ? That doesnt sound right, and its not right. How can God be appeased towards one, and that one be under His wrath at the same time ?

 

[brightfame52]

First of all, ῥυόμενον is a present tense verb, which shows active participation in an activity. He is delivering at the present time!

Moreover, he is actively delivering “us”, referring to Paul and the present tense believers at the time, and by extension, those who currently are believing.

There is no “finished” act in view here, but a continuing process moving toward a certain result, namely being saved from the final wrath of God yet to come.

Doug

Makes no difference what tense its in, there's no wrath period towards them God is appeased towards. Thats a contradiction, that's a sure sign of false teaching when it fosters a contradiction. And believing has never appeased Gods wrath, Christs Sacrifice did that, or do you deny that ?

 

[TibiasDad]

Makes no difference what tense its in

It makes all the difference!

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

It makes all the difference!

Doug

No it doesn't, all aspects of deliverance is by God.

2Co 1:10 - Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us
And man is always passive in being delivered, no matter what tense, stop exalting man to be God

 

[TibiasDad]

No it doesn't, all aspects of deliverance is by God.

2Co 1:10 - Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us
And man is always passive in being delivered, no matter what tense, stop exalting man to be God

Man is being saved from wrath by means of Jesus’s delivering. Jesus is delivering us as we speak, and his success is certain, but not yet completed.


Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

@TibiasDad



And yet the whole world isnt saved, and are under Gods wrath ? That doesnt sound right, and its not right. How can God be appeased towards one, and that one be under His wrath at the same time ?

All who believe are saved. All are called to believe and be saved. All are capable of believing or continuing to disbelieve. The dynamic difference, according to John, between the saved and unsaved is believing!

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. (John 3:18)

Rom 10:11As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” <a href="https://biblehub.com/niv/romans/10.htm#footnotes" title="Isaiah 28:16 (see Septuagint)">e</a> 12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” <a href="https://biblehub.com/niv/romans/10.htm#footnotes" title="Joel 2:32">f</a>

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

Man is being saved from wrath by means of Jesus’s delivering. Jesus is delivering us as we speak, and his success is certain, but not yet completed.


Doug

Man was saved from wrath by Jesus death/blood Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Also the elect for whom He died were never appointed to wrath, even b4 they were born 1 Thess 5:9-10

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

Christ only died for them, not appointed to wrath !

 

[TibiasDad]

Man was saved from wrath by Jesus death/blood Rom 5:9

Salvation from wrath is potential for all men; only those who believe will be saved from wrath at the judgement.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

I have never said anything contrary to this!

Also the elect for whom He died were never appointed to wrath, even b4 they were born 1 Thess 5:9-10

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

Christ only died for them, not appointed to wrath !

All unrepentant sinners are subject to God’s wrath at judgement. Paul is not talking to “all” men here, but to those who are already believers about God’s desires for them as believers.

It does not say that Christ died only for that particular group of people. It doesn’t say that Christ died for only those who believed or would believe at some point.

It definitely does not say that God’s desire for all other men is different. Nor does it say this say that this is predestined for anyone before we are born.

Doug

 

[ProDeo]

Total depravity shows the need of Gods Grace for Salvation:

Total depravity is one of the five points of Calvinism. This doctrine teaches that man, every man, is by nature sinful and evil—only and completely sinful and evil. There is in man, apart from God's grace in Christ, no good and no ability for good. By "good" is meant that which pleases God, namely, a deed that has its origin in the faith of Jesus, its standard in the Law of God and its goal in God's glory.

Paul writes that they which are in the flesh, which all by nature, unregenerate are, cannot please God Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

And Faith pleases God Heb 11:6

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

1 John shows that believing in Christ is one of the things that is pleasing in Gods sight 1 Jn 3:22-23

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Now unfortunately the unregenerate, in the flesh cannot do those things that are pleasing in Gods sight like believing on the Name of His Son Jesus Christ nor love the brethren

So the need for regenerating grace !

Unconditional election (also called sovereign election) is a Calvinist doctrine relating to predestination that describes the actions and motives of God prior to his creation of the world, when he predestined some people to receive salvation, the elect, and the rest he left to continue in their sins and receive the just punishment, eternal damnation, for their transgressions of God's law as outlined in the Old and New Testaments of the Bible. God made these choices according to his own purposes apart from any conditions or qualities related to those persons.

This isn't Biblical -

1. As we can't read the mind of God, how He makes His choices, you can never be sure about your salvation, you have to live in fear your whole life, else you haven't understood what you have chosen to believe.

2. God wants that everybody embraces the truth and that nobody would perish and He has given mankind the means --> Jesus.

3. And every born again soul knows he/she is saved.

Rom 8:16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

 

[Red Baker]

Are we who reject TULIP not believers then?

Doug

That is not an evidence of eternal life, faith is, with godly fruits supporting one's faith, truth comes over time, to some ~ others, truths may never come, and this is not an assumption of my part, but a truth supported by scriptures, even by Christ's very own sayings:

Matthew 13:17​

“For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.”

Now it is true that they desire to see and hear, but were unable to do so, for God given reasons. If a person fights truth, then there's a problem, and any who fights truth will face the consequences of doing so, and we leave that in God's hands, for some things are secret unto us and he has not been please to go into details concerning why some godly folks cannot see certain truths, but opening men hearts is not something that is in our power to do, the best we can do is put the truth before others and trust God for the result and rejoice when we see some loving what is being taught. That's the very way faithful men in the past treated us, and it work, so we treat others with mercy and trust God for opening of the eyes of those that love his word and fear him ~ some he does, some never come to see.

Calvinism, Arminianism, and the Truth

Calvinism, Arminianism, and the Truth John Calvin 1509-1564

letgodbetrue.com

 

[brightfame52]

@TibiasDad

Salvation from wrath is potential for all men;

This is so blatantly false, it makes no sense to read anything else.

 

[brightfame52]

Unconditional election (also called sovereign election) is a Calvinist doctrine relating to predestination that describes the actions and motives of God prior to his creation of the world, when he predestined some people to receive salvation, the elect, and the rest he left to continue in their sins and receive the just punishment, eternal damnation, for their transgressions of God's law as outlined in the Old and New Testaments of the Bible. God made these choices according to his own purposes apart from any conditions or qualities related to those persons.

This isn't Biblical -

1. As we can't read the mind of God, how He makes His choices, you can never be sure about your salvation, you have to live in fear your whole life, else you haven't understood what you have chosen to believe.

2. God wants that everybody embraces the truth and that nobody would perish and He has given mankind the means --> Jesus.

3. And every born again soul knows he/she is saved.

Rom 8:16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

You can resist it all you want, Calvinism, Tulip Truths are the Gospel of Gods Grace.

 

[TibiasDad]

@TibiasDad



This is so blatantly false, it makes no sense to read anything else.

That is why your gospel is no gospel at all.

Doug

 

[ProDeo]

You can resist it all you want, Calvinism, Tulip Truths are the Gospel of Gods Grace.

Are you sure of your salvation then ?

In Calvinism you can't.

 

[TibiasDad]

You can resist it all you want, Calvinism, Tulip Truths are the Gospel of Gods Grace.

The death and resurrection of Jesus is the gospel!

The extension of hope by God toward man is the gospel!

That God loved the world is the gospel!

That whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life is the gospel!

Soteriology is not the gospel!

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

Unconditional election (also called sovereign election) is a Calvinist doctrine relating to predestination that describes the actions and motives of God prior to his creation of the world, when he predestined some people to receive salvation, the elect, and the rest he left to continue in their sins and receive the just punishment, eternal damnation, for their transgressions of God's law as outlined in the Old and New Testaments of the Bible. God made these choices according to his own purposes apart from any conditions or qualities related to those persons.

This isn't Biblical -

1. As we can't read the mind of God, how He makes His choices, you can never be sure about your salvation, you have to live in fear your whole life, else you haven't understood what you have chosen to believe.

2. God wants that everybody embraces the truth and that nobody would perish and He has given mankind the means --> Jesus.

3. And every born again soul knows he/she is saved.

Rom 8:16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

You can resist it all you want, Calvinism, Tulip Truths are the Gospel of Gods Grace.

That is why your gospel is no gospel at all.

Doug

What you

The death and resurrection of Jesus is the gospel!

The extension of hope by God toward man is the gospel!

That God loved the world is the gospel!

That whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life is the gospel!

Soteriology is not the gospel!

Doug

Calvinism, Tulip Truths are the Gospel of Gods Grace.

 

[Cosmo]

Deception is what Calvinism does best. It refers to the act of causing someone to accept as true or valid what is false or invalid. It involves lying, misleading, or otherwise hiding or distorting the truth. Deception can also include omitting the truth or engaging in more complicated cover-ups.

 

[TibiasDad]

You can resist it all you want, Calvinism, Tulip Truths are the Gospel of Gods Grace.

What you

Calvinism, Tulip Truths are the Gospel of Gods Grace.

If Calvinism is the Gospel, then to not believe in Calvinism is to not believe in the Gospel and therefore to not be saved.

Are non-Calvinists therefore non-Christians?


Doug