brightfame52
Active Member
Eph 2:3
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Who are the we here Paul is referring to as by nature were being the children of wrath ? No doubt he included himself by employing the pronoun we.
He's meaning believers as himself, even the Chosen ones in Christ before the foundation of the world as characterize in Eph 1:4
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Now with this established as to whom Paul is writing of in Eph 2:3 as once being the children of wrath as others, does this designation mean that at one time believers, the Chosen of God were by nature under Gods wrath ? Absolutely not, by no means possible were the believers in Christ, the Chosen of God ever under Gods Wrath as others. Neither does it read in Eph 2:3 that any were under Gods wrath.
So what does Paul mean here by this designation " were by nature the children of wrath, even as others."?
Here are a few things Paul may mean. There are men and women that are definitely under Gods wrath, these would be the vessels of wrath, who are destined for wrath Rom 9:22
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Now by nature the Chosen of God when unbelievers do visibly appear as vessels of wrath fitted for destruction simply because they sinners naturally like they are.
And being sinners as the vessels of wrath are, they are also most deserving of Gods wrath and destruction as all men are by nature.
And also, by nature the Chosen are wrathful children towards God as other sinners are, meaning their disposition towards the True God is one of wrathful, enmity against Him as in Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Col 1:21
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
The word for enemies here in the above is the word echthros :
From a primary echtho (to hate); hateful (passively, odious, or actively, hostile)
And the word hateful means resentful, even wrathful !
The elect/chosen by nature as in common with all other men are carnal in the flesh, and heres what Paul writes about them in the flesh Rom 8:7
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity[hatred] against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Yet with all this foul disposition we naturally have against the True God, as the Chosen of God, they're never under Gods wrath . They are never vessels of wrath God is fitting for destruction, Gods disposition towards them, even when they are enemies towards Himself, is one of Love, Mercy, and Reconciliation, and Peace through the death of Christ for them. Rom 5:8,10;Eph 2:4; 1 Jn 2:2
So believers, the Chosen in Christ are never under Gods Wrath and scripture doesnt anywhere teach that, not even Eph 2:3 !
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Who are the we here Paul is referring to as by nature were being the children of wrath ? No doubt he included himself by employing the pronoun we.
He's meaning believers as himself, even the Chosen ones in Christ before the foundation of the world as characterize in Eph 1:4
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Now with this established as to whom Paul is writing of in Eph 2:3 as once being the children of wrath as others, does this designation mean that at one time believers, the Chosen of God were by nature under Gods wrath ? Absolutely not, by no means possible were the believers in Christ, the Chosen of God ever under Gods Wrath as others. Neither does it read in Eph 2:3 that any were under Gods wrath.
So what does Paul mean here by this designation " were by nature the children of wrath, even as others."?
Here are a few things Paul may mean. There are men and women that are definitely under Gods wrath, these would be the vessels of wrath, who are destined for wrath Rom 9:22
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Now by nature the Chosen of God when unbelievers do visibly appear as vessels of wrath fitted for destruction simply because they sinners naturally like they are.
And being sinners as the vessels of wrath are, they are also most deserving of Gods wrath and destruction as all men are by nature.
And also, by nature the Chosen are wrathful children towards God as other sinners are, meaning their disposition towards the True God is one of wrathful, enmity against Him as in Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Col 1:21
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
The word for enemies here in the above is the word echthros :
From a primary echtho (to hate); hateful (passively, odious, or actively, hostile)
- hated, odious, hateful
- hostile, hating, and opposing another
- used of men as at enmity with God by their sin
- opposing (God) in the mind
- used of men as at enmity with God by their sin
And the word hateful means resentful, even wrathful !
The elect/chosen by nature as in common with all other men are carnal in the flesh, and heres what Paul writes about them in the flesh Rom 8:7
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity[hatred] against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Yet with all this foul disposition we naturally have against the True God, as the Chosen of God, they're never under Gods wrath . They are never vessels of wrath God is fitting for destruction, Gods disposition towards them, even when they are enemies towards Himself, is one of Love, Mercy, and Reconciliation, and Peace through the death of Christ for them. Rom 5:8,10;Eph 2:4; 1 Jn 2:2
So believers, the Chosen in Christ are never under Gods Wrath and scripture doesnt anywhere teach that, not even Eph 2:3 !
