Ephesians 2:8 salvation is the gift

[TomL]

You have to have hearing ears spiritually to spiritually hear or you cant hear Jn 8:43-44

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

All of us by nature do the lusts of the devil Eph 2:2-3

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Those are Christ-rejecting Jews in John 8

John 8:37–53 (ASV) — 37 I know that ye are Abraham’s seed: yet ye seek to kill me, because my word hath not free course in you. 38 I speak the things which I have seen with my Father: and ye also do the things which ye heard from your father. 39 They answered and said unto him, Our father is Abraham. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I heard from God: this did not Abraham. 41 Ye do the works of your father. They said unto him, We were not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I came forth and am come from God; for neither have I come of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? Even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof. 45 But because I say the truth, ye believe me not. 46 Which of you convicteth me of sin? If I say truth, why do ye not believe me? 47 He that is of God heareth the words of God: for this cause ye hear them not, because ye are not of God. 48 The Jews answered and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a demon? 49 Jesus answered, I have not a demon; but I honor my Father, and ye dishonor me. 50 But I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth. 51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my word, he shall never see death. 52 The Jews said unto him, Now we know that thou hast a demon. Abraham died, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my word, he shall never taste of death. 53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, who died? and the prophets died: whom makest thou thyself?

 

[brightfame52]

Those are Christ-rejecting Jews in John 8

John 8:37–53 (ASV) — 37 I know that ye are Abraham’s seed: yet ye seek to kill me, because my word hath not free course in you. 38 I speak the things which I have seen with my Father: and ye also do the things which ye heard from your father. 39 They answered and said unto him, Our father is Abraham. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I heard from God: this did not Abraham. 41 Ye do the works of your father. They said unto him, We were not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I came forth and am come from God; for neither have I come of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? Even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof. 45 But because I say the truth, ye believe me not. 46 Which of you convicteth me of sin? If I say truth, why do ye not believe me? 47 He that is of God heareth the words of God: for this cause ye hear them not, because ye are not of God. 48 The Jews answered and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a demon? 49 Jesus answered, I have not a demon; but I honor my Father, and ye dishonor me. 50 But I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth. 51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my word, he shall never see death. 52 The Jews said unto him, Now we know that thou hast a demon. Abraham died, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my word, he shall never taste of death. 53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, who died? and the prophets died: whom makest thou thyself?

Can't hear if they're not of God which means saved

 

[TomL]

Can't hear if they're not of God which means saved

Again

Those are Christ-rejecting Jews in John 8

John 8:37–53 (ASV) — 37 I know that ye are Abraham’s seed: yet ye seek to kill me, because my word hath not free course in you. 38 I speak the things which I have seen with my Father: and ye also do the things which ye heard from your father. 39 They answered and said unto him, Our father is Abraham. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I heard from God: this did not Abraham. 41 Ye do the works of your father. They said unto him, We were not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I came forth and am come from God; for neither have I come of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? Even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof. 45 But because I say the truth, ye believe me not. 46 Which of you convicteth me of sin? If I say truth, why do ye not believe me? 47 He that is of God heareth the words of God: for this cause ye hear them not, because ye are not of God. 48 The Jews answered and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a demon? 49 Jesus answered, I have not a demon; but I honor my Father, and ye dishonor me. 50 But I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth. 51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my word, he shall never see death. 52 The Jews said unto him, Now we know that thou hast a demon. Abraham died, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my word, he shall never taste of death. 53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, who died? and the prophets died: whom makest thou thyself?

They would not accept Jesus because they were not true followers of God.

 

[brightfame52]

Again

Those are Christ-rejecting Jews in John 8

John 8:37–53 (ASV) — 37 I know that ye are Abraham’s seed: yet ye seek to kill me, because my word hath not free course in you. 38 I speak the things which I have seen with my Father: and ye also do the things which ye heard from your father. 39 They answered and said unto him, Our father is Abraham. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I heard from God: this did not Abraham. 41 Ye do the works of your father. They said unto him, We were not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I came forth and am come from God; for neither have I come of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? Even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof. 45 But because I say the truth, ye believe me not. 46 Which of you convicteth me of sin? If I say truth, why do ye not believe me? 47 He that is of God heareth the words of God: for this cause ye hear them not, because ye are not of God. 48 The Jews answered and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a demon? 49 Jesus answered, I have not a demon; but I honor my Father, and ye dishonor me. 50 But I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth. 51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my word, he shall never see death. 52 The Jews said unto him, Now we know that thou hast a demon. Abraham died, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my word, he shall never taste of death. 53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, who died? and the prophets died: whom makest thou thyself?

They would not accept Jesus because they were not true followers of God.

One can't hear the word of God unless they are of God John 8:47 and ethnicity has nothing to do with it

 

[TomL]

One can't hear the word of God unless they are of God John 8:47 and ethnicity has nothing to do with it

Those are Christ-rejecting Jews in John 8

John 8:37–53 (ASV) — 37 I know that ye are Abraham’s seed: yet ye seek to kill me, because my word hath not free course in you. 38 I speak the things which I have seen with my Father: and ye also do the things which ye heard from your father. 39 They answered and said unto him, Our father is Abraham. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I heard from God: this did not Abraham. 41 Ye do the works of your father. They said unto him, We were not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I came forth and am come from God; for neither have I come of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? Even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof. 45 But because I say the truth, ye believe me not. 46 Which of you convicteth me of sin? If I say truth, why do ye not believe me? 47 He that is of God heareth the words of God: for this cause ye hear them not, because ye are not of God. 48 The Jews answered and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a demon? 49 Jesus answered, I have not a demon; but I honor my Father, and ye dishonor me. 50 But I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth. 51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my word, he shall never see death. 52 The Jews said unto him, Now we know that thou hast a demon. Abraham died, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my word, he shall never taste of death. 53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, who died? and the prophets died: whom makest thou thyself?

They would not accept Jesus because they were not true followers of God.

Nothing, however, states all men were incapable of hearing God's word and thus could not have become one of the people who heard and learned from God and thus believed in Christ.

 

[FreeInChrist]

You have to have hearing ears spiritually to spiritually hear or you cant hear Jn 8:43-44

God said..." For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Meaning God cause some to be unable to hear or see because these were those who would not make it.

If God had left them to themselves then somewhere they well might have heard... from someone like the 11 that Jesus sent out to teach.... and be converted. So... it still is all about man having free will.

Free will to accept of reject Jesus once they hear.

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

All of us by nature do the lusts of the devil Eph 2:2-3

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

 

[TomL]

You have to have hearing ears spiritually to spiritually hear or you cant hear Jn 8:43-44

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

All of us by nature do the lusts of the devil Eph 2:2-3

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Luke 11:28But he said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and follow it!”

Rom 10:17Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing through the word about Christ.

James 1:22–25But be doers of the message and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves, because if anyone is a hearer of the message and not a doer, this one is like someone staring at his own face in a mirror, for he looks at himself and goes away and immediately forgets what sort of person he was. But the one who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues to do it, not being a forgetful hearer but a doer who acts, this one will be blessed in what he does.

Matt 7:24–27“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain came down and the rivers came and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it did not collapse, because its foundation was laid on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain came down and the rivers came and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it collapsed, and its fall was great.”

Luke 8:15But the seed on the good soil—these are the ones who, after hearing the word, hold fast to it with a noble and good heart, and bear fruit with patient endurance.

 

[brightfame52]

Nothing, however, states all men were incapable of hearing God's word and thus could not have become one of the people who heard and learned from God and thus believed in Christ.

Jesus tells us the criteria of hearing with spiritual understanding of course, man must be of God, meaning saved, regenerated.

Its equivalent to when Jesus said, this Jn 3:3

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

 

[brightfame52]

Luke 11:28But he said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and follow it!”

Rom 10:17Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing through the word about Christ.

James 1:22–25But be doers of the message and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves, because if anyone is a hearer of the message and not a doer, this one is like someone staring at his own face in a mirror, for he looks at himself and goes away and immediately forgets what sort of person he was. But the one who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues to do it, not being a forgetful hearer but a doer who acts, this one will be blessed in what he does.

Matt 7:24–27“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain came down and the rivers came and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it did not collapse, because its foundation was laid on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain came down and the rivers came and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it collapsed, and its fall was great.”

Luke 8:15But the seed on the good soil—these are the ones who, after hearing the word, hold fast to it with a noble and good heart, and bear fruit with patient endurance.

One has to be of God to hear the word of God Jn 8:47, that means they have to be saved, regenerated

 

[TomL]

One has to be of God to hear the word of God Jn 8:47, that means they have to be saved, regenerated

Nope

Those who were opposed to God here would not hear God's word about his Son Jesus

John 8:37–47 (NASB95) — 37 “I know that you are Abraham’s descendants; yet you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 “I speak the things which I have seen with My Father; therefore you also do the things which you heard from your father.” 39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you are Abraham’s children, do the deeds of Abraham. 40 “But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. 41 “You are doing the deeds of your father.” They said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father: God.” 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me. 43 “Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. 44 “You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 “But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 “Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 “He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.”

Contrary to these we have

Luke 11:28But he said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and follow it!”

and

Rom 10:17Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing through the word about Christ.

James 1:22–25But be doers of the message and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves, because if anyone is a hearer of the message and not a doer, this one is like someone staring at his own face in a mirror, for he looks at himself and goes away and immediately forgets what sort of person he was. But the one who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues to do it, not being a forgetful hearer but a doer who acts, this one will be blessed in what he does.

Matt 7:24–27“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain came down and the rivers came and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it did not collapse, because its foundation was laid on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain came down and the rivers came and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it collapsed, and its fall was great.”

Luke 8:15But the seed on the good soil—these are the ones who, after hearing the word, hold fast to it with a noble and good heart, and bear fruit with patient endurance.

And seeing as the Spirit is not given until after the resurrection of Christ

John 7:38–39 (NASB95) — 38 “He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

These people were yet regenerated.

 

[civic]

Those are Christ-rejecting Jews in John 8

John 8:37–53 (ASV) — 37 I know that ye are Abraham’s seed: yet ye seek to kill me, because my word hath not free course in you. 38 I speak the things which I have seen with my Father: and ye also do the things which ye heard from your father. 39 They answered and said unto him, Our father is Abraham. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I heard from God: this did not Abraham. 41 Ye do the works of your father. They said unto him, We were not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I came forth and am come from God; for neither have I come of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? Even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof. 45 But because I say the truth, ye believe me not. 46 Which of you convicteth me of sin? If I say truth, why do ye not believe me? 47 He that is of God heareth the words of God: for this cause ye hear them not, because ye are not of God. 48 The Jews answered and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a demon? 49 Jesus answered, I have not a demon; but I honor my Father, and ye dishonor me. 50 But I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth. 51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my word, he shall never see death. 52 The Jews said unto him, Now we know that thou hast a demon. Abraham died, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my word, he shall never taste of death. 53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, who died? and the prophets died: whom makest thou thyself?

Yes “ context “ is everything and as we see it was ripped right out of its context.

A text without the context is a pretext for a proof text.

Obviously he was “ proof “ texting which is nothing more than eisegesis. Reading one’s own man made opinions into the text.

 

[TomL]

Jesus tells us the criteria of hearing with spiritual understanding of course, man must be of God, meaning saved, regenerated.

Its equivalent to when Jesus said, this Jn 3:3

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Regarding Romans 8

No, what is being stated is that the Jewish men who are really not of God but have the devil as their father will not accept God's testimony concerning his son Jesus

John 8:37–56 (NASB95) — 37 “I know that you are Abraham’s descendants; yet you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 “I speak the things which I have seen with My Father; therefore you also do the things which you heard from your father.” 39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you are Abraham’s children, do the deeds of Abraham. 40 “But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. 41 “You are doing the deeds of your father.” They said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father: God.” 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me. 43 “Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. 44 “You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 “But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 “Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 “He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.” 48 The Jews answered and said to Him, “Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?” 49 Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me. 50 “But I do not seek My glory; there is One who seeks and judges. 51 “Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death.” 52 The Jews said to Him, “Now we know that You have a demon. Abraham died, and the prophets also; and You say, ‘If anyone keeps My word, he will never taste of death.’ 53 “Surely You are not greater than our father Abraham, who died? The prophets died too; whom do You make Yourself out to be?” 54 Jesus answered, “If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God’; 55 and you have not come to know Him, but I know Him; and if I say that I do not know Him, I will be a liar like you, but I do know Him and keep His word. 56 “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”

John 3:3 does nothing at all to support your theology.

As it states nothing at all about how one is born of God

But any who believe in Christ are born again.

John 1:12–13 (LEB) — 12 But as many as received him—to those who believe in his name—he gave to them authority to become children of God, 13 who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of a husband, but of God.

 

[TomL]

Yes “ context “ is everything and as we see it was ripped right out of its context.

A text without the context is a pretext for a proof text.

Obviously he was “ proof “ texting which is nothing more than eisegesis. Reading one’s own man made opinions into the text.

Yep, that is the case.

 

[brightfame52]

@TomL

Nope

Then you rejecting the very words of Christ who said Jn 8:47

He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

John 8:47 (KJB)He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God. Heareth and hear - Hearing with spiritual understanding Words (rhema) - Discourse, declaration, command, or promise Here Jesus tells them plainly that the reason that the Jews will not hear the words of God is because they do not possess the spiritual ears which accompanies a person who is saved. The only way we can hear and truly understand the Gospel is by being saved and when a person is saved, they belong to God. These Jews were unsaved and did not belong to God because three verses back Jesus told them plainly that they were of their father the devil. Those who are in Satan’s camp cannot hear the word of God, one must be qualified to hear them and that qualification comes through salvation in Christ alone. https://www.scionofzion.com/gospel_of_john_8_46_50.htm

 

[brightfame52]

Regarding Romans 8

No, what is being stated is that the Jewish men who are really not of God but have the devil as their father will not accept God's testimony concerning his son Jesus

John 8:37–56 (NASB95) — 37 “I know that you are Abraham’s descendants; yet you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 “I speak the things which I have seen with My Father; therefore you also do the things which you heard from your father.” 39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you are Abraham’s children, do the deeds of Abraham. 40 “But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. 41 “You are doing the deeds of your father.” They said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father: God.” 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me. 43 “Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. 44 “You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 “But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 “Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 “He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.” 48 The Jews answered and said to Him, “Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?” 49 Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me. 50 “But I do not seek My glory; there is One who seeks and judges. 51 “Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death.” 52 The Jews said to Him, “Now we know that You have a demon. Abraham died, and the prophets also; and You say, ‘If anyone keeps My word, he will never taste of death.’ 53 “Surely You are not greater than our father Abraham, who died? The prophets died too; whom do You make Yourself out to be?” 54 Jesus answered, “If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God’; 55 and you have not come to know Him, but I know Him; and if I say that I do not know Him, I will be a liar like you, but I do know Him and keep His word. 56 “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”

John 3:3 does nothing at all to support your theology.

As it states nothing at all about how one is born of God

But any who believe in Christ are born again.

John 1:12–13 (LEB) — 12 But as many as received him—to those who believe in his name—he gave to them authority to become children of God, 13 who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of a husband, but of God.

Jesus tells us the criteria of hearing with spiritual understanding of course, man must be of God, meaning saved, regenerated.

Its equivalent to when Jesus said, this Jn 3:3

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

 

[TomL]

Jesus tells us the criteria of hearing with spiritual understanding of course, man must be of God, meaning saved, regenerated.

Its equivalent to when Jesus said, this Jn 3:3

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Once again

Regarding Romans 8

No, what is being stated is that the Jewish men who are really not of God but have the devil as their father will not accept God's testimony concerning his son Jesus

John 8:37–56 (NASB95) — 37 “I know that you are Abraham’s descendants; yet you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 “I speak the things which I have seen with My Father; therefore you also do the things which you heard from your father.” 39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you are Abraham’s children, do the deeds of Abraham. 40 “But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. 41 “You are doing the deeds of your father.” They said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father: God.” 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me. 43 “Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. 44 “You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 “But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 “Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 “He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.” 48 The Jews answered and said to Him, “Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?” 49 Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me. 50 “But I do not seek My glory; there is One who seeks and judges. 51 “Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death.” 52 The Jews said to Him, “Now we know that You have a demon. Abraham died, and the prophets also; and You say, ‘If anyone keeps My word, he will never taste of death.’ 53 “Surely You are not greater than our father Abraham, who died? The prophets died too; whom do You make Yourself out to be?” 54 Jesus answered, “If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God’; 55 and you have not come to know Him, but I know Him; and if I say that I do not know Him, I will be a liar like you, but I do know Him and keep His word. 56 “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”

John 3:3 does nothing at all to support your theology.

As it states nothing at all about how one is born of God

But any who believe in Christ are born again.

John 1:12–13 (LEB) — 12 But as many as received him—to those who believe in his name—he gave to them authority to become children of God, 13 who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of a husband, but of God.

 

[TomL]

@TomL



Then you rejecting the very words of Christ who said Jn 8:47

He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

You ignored this

Nope

Those who were opposed to God here would not hear God's word about his Son Jesus

John 8:37–47 (NASB95) — 37 “I know that you are Abraham’s descendants; yet you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 “I speak the things which I have seen with My Father; therefore you also do the things which you heard from your father.” 39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you are Abraham’s children, do the deeds of Abraham. 40 “But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. 41 “You are doing the deeds of your father.” They said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father: God.” 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me. 43 “Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. 44 “You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 “But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 “Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 “He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.”

Contrary to these we have

Luke 11:28But he said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and follow it!”

and

Rom 10:17Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing through the word about Christ.

James 1:22–25But be doers of the message and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves, because if anyone is a hearer of the message and not a doer, this one is like someone staring at his own face in a mirror, for he looks at himself and goes away and immediately forgets what sort of person he was. But the one who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues to do it, not being a forgetful hearer but a doer who acts, this one will be blessed in what he does.

Matt 7:24–27“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain came down and the rivers came and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it did not collapse, because its foundation was laid on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain came down and the rivers came and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it collapsed, and its fall was great.”

Luke 8:15But the seed on the good soil—these are the ones who, after hearing the word, hold fast to it with a noble and good heart, and bear fruit with patient endurance.

And seeing as the Spirit is not given until after the resurrection of Christ

John 7:38–39 (NASB95) — 38 “He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

These people were yet regenerated.

 

[brightfame52]

Once again

Regarding Romans 8

No, what is being stated is that the Jewish men who are really not of God but have the devil as their father will not accept God's testimony concerning his son Jesus

John 8:37–56 (NASB95) — 37 “I know that you are Abraham’s descendants; yet you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 “I speak the things which I have seen with My Father; therefore you also do the things which you heard from your father.” 39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you are Abraham’s children, do the deeds of Abraham. 40 “But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. 41 “You are doing the deeds of your father.” They said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father: God.” 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me. 43 “Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. 44 “You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 “But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 “Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 “He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.” 48 The Jews answered and said to Him, “Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?” 49 Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me. 50 “But I do not seek My glory; there is One who seeks and judges. 51 “Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death.” 52 The Jews said to Him, “Now we know that You have a demon. Abraham died, and the prophets also; and You say, ‘If anyone keeps My word, he will never taste of death.’ 53 “Surely You are not greater than our father Abraham, who died? The prophets died too; whom do You make Yourself out to be?” 54 Jesus answered, “If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God’; 55 and you have not come to know Him, but I know Him; and if I say that I do not know Him, I will be a liar like you, but I do know Him and keep His word. 56 “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”

John 3:3 does nothing at all to support your theology.

As it states nothing at all about how one is born of God

But any who believe in Christ are born again.

John 1:12–13 (LEB) — 12 But as many as received him—to those who believe in his name—he gave to them authority to become children of God, 13 who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of a husband, but of God.

The criteria for hearing the word of God is you have to be saved, born again Jn 8:47

 

[brightfame52]

You ignored this



Contrary to these we have

Luke 11:28But he said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and follow it!”

and

Rom 10:17Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing through the word about Christ.

James 1:22–25But be doers of the message and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves, because if anyone is a hearer of the message and not a doer, this one is like someone staring at his own face in a mirror, for he looks at himself and goes away and immediately forgets what sort of person he was. But the one who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues to do it, not being a forgetful hearer but a doer who acts, this one will be blessed in what he does.

Matt 7:24–27“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain came down and the rivers came and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it did not collapse, because its foundation was laid on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain came down and the rivers came and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it collapsed, and its fall was great.”

Luke 8:15But the seed on the good soil—these are the ones who, after hearing the word, hold fast to it with a noble and good heart, and bear fruit with patient endurance.

And seeing as the Spirit is not given until after the resurrection of Christ

John 7:38–39 (NASB95) — 38 “He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

These people were yet regenerated.

It was Christ who said Jn 8:47

He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

 

[TomL]

The criteria for hearing the word of God is you have to be saved, born again Jn 8:47

Sorry, that is not stated

And men were not born again until the resurrection and glorification of Christ, when the Spirit will be received.

.
John 7:37–39 (LEB) — 37 Now on the last day of the feast—the great day—Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me, and let him drink, 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)