Biblical Differences Between...

[Complete]

Christ dwells in us. We are the temple where His Spirit lives in us. Christ in you the Hope of Glory

'That at that time ye were without Christ,
being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel,
and strangers from the covenants of promise,
having no hope, and without God in the world:
But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off
are made nigh by the blood of Christ.'
(Eph 2:12-13)

Hello @civic,

Though it is true that Christ lives in us, individually, by means of the new nature that we receive as believers in the Lord Jesus Christ: yet this also has a corporate application; for Christ is now 'in' or 'among' gentiles as never before; For Prior to salvation being 'sent to the Gentiles' in Acts 28:28, Gentiles were far off from God, 'without Christ', 'without God', 'aliens' and 'strangers': Salvation could not be accessed apart frim Israel, for salvation was 'of the Jew'. (John 4:22). Yet now, salvation is possible for the Gentile, in Christ Jesus, for He is now among them, their hope of glory (Col. 1:27).

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Complete]

Precious complete--

A new dispensation was given to Paul, but it does not mean everything Paul spoke or taught was new.

He uses the word “kingdom” throughout his epistles both during Acts and in his post-Acts epistles (to the dismay of the Acts 28ers). He mentions the word “kingdom” in his epistles more often than Peter, James, and John do in their epistles combined (13 vs 11, excluding Acts).So, what? Does this mean Paul taught the same message as Peter, James, and John? No, of course not.
Why did Paul talk about the kingdom? There are many reasons. Here are the most significant.

1. Everyone in the church, the body of Christ, is translated into the kingdom
No, this does not mean the church is spiritual Israel, nor does it mean the body of Christ will reign in Israel’s kingdom. It does mean that we in the church are under the authority of God.

Paul mentioned the kingdom of God, because he was a servant of God and under his authority.

“Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:” – Col 1:13
If you have been redeemed by the blood of Christ, and partake of the grace of God in this dispensation, you are no longer under the power of darkness, but have been moved into a position in heavenly places (Eph 2:6-7).

We are still present in this dark evil world, but our position is no longer here. We are under the headship of Christ in a heavenly dominion.

2. The kingdom of God includes both heaven and earth

The mystery of God’s will revealed to Paul how all things would be gathered together in one in Christ (Eph 1:10). This was a mystery before Paul, but describes how God will reign in the fullness of times. God had revealed his purpose for the earth, but had never spoken about the things or positions in heavenly places belonging to the church.

Part of the mystery of Christ is talking about the invisible dominion in heaven (Col 1:16).

3. The kingdom of God includes both Israel and the Church

No, I do not mean the kingdom of God on earth, which belongs to Israel and the earthly nations. I am talking about the kingdom of God universal. God’s dominion is not limited to the jurisdiction of the earth, but includes the rest of the universe, what the Bible calls the heaven.

The mystery of Christ introduces the creation of a new creature whose conversation is in heaven (Phil 3:20). This is a part of the kingdom of God that was not made known before Paul. Prophecy spoke of the kingdom of God as it will be on the earth, Christ ruling through Israel; the revelation of the mystery speaks of the kingdom of God as it will be in heavenly places, Christ ruling over the church.

4. The kingdom of God is not yet on the earth

When Paul mentions the kingdom, it is always in the future tense. This means the idea of a present kingdom of God come on earth is false. The kingdom of God is waiting for God to establish it in heaven and earth.

The gospel of the kingdom is the proclamation that the kingdom of God is at hand, or is here. Paul did not teach this gospel, knowing that the revelation of the mystery delays the coming of this kingdom to the future. He taught the reign of grace and the gospel of the grace of God. The gospel of the kingdom, and preaching the postponement of the kingdom is different.

Paul explained this delay causing interruption in the gospel of the kingdom. Peter acknowledges Paul’s explanation of the postponement of the kingdom, and that Christ is no longer sending the twelve to preach the gospel of the kingdom (2 Pet 3:15).

https://graceambassadors.com/prophecy/an-unfulfilled-kingdom-link.

At the moment still using BBS and Grace Ambassadors side by side-going S-L-O-W-L-Y through the teachings, with my Bible and the Holy Spirit since there is a LOT to ingest.

And then there are the "anti"-Dispentationalists-radically opposed to this.

Shalom.
Johann.

Hello @Johann,

With respect, why would those who consider the Church which is the Body of Christ to have been made known after Acts 28, feel dismay at this? How is this a problem to any believer? For all believers come under the umbrella of the Kingdom of God, for He is Sovereign.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Johann]

Hello @Johann,

With respect, why would Acts 28 believers feel dismay at this? How is this a problem? For all believers come under the umbrella of the Kingdom of God, for He is Sovereign.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hi @Complete-

Like I've said-I have BBS and Grace Ambassadors before me and don't have the courage to speak out authoritatively-at the moment-since this is a bit overwhelming.

One question-if I may-

MEMBERS OF THE BODY OF CHRIST ARE NOT SAVED ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS, BUT ACCORDING TO GOD’S PURPOSE AND GRACE WHICH WAS GIVEN THEM IN CHRIST JESUS BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. II Timothy 1:9. THIS IS CALLED GOD’S ETERNAL PURPOSE IN CHRIST. THIS PURPOSE WAS IN GOD’S MIND AND GOD’S PLAN AGES BEFORE HE MADE HIS COVENANT WITH ABRAHAM. BUT ONE GREAT QUESTION, WHICH PERHAPS REMAINS UNANSWERED IN THE MINDS OF MOST CHURCH-MEMBERS, IS: “WHEN DID THE BODY OF CHRIST BEGIN HISTORICALLY?

THE POSTMILLENARIAN TEACHES THAT THE BODY OF CHRIST, THE CHURCH OF GOD AND ISRAEL ARE ALL THE SAME CHURCH IN DIFFERENT STAGES.

SOME PREMILLENARIANS ARE SURE THE BODY BEGAN WHEN CHRIST BREATHED UPON HIS APOSTLES. John 20:22.

OTHER PREMILLENARIANS TEACH THAT THE CHURCH BEGAN ON THE DAY OF PENTECOST.

OTHER PREMILLENARIANS SAY, AFTER THE THIRTEENTH CHAPTER OF ACTS.

AND STILL OTHERS SAY, AFTER THE WORDS OF PAUL RECORDED IN THE CLOSE OF ACTS, IN ACTS 28:25 to 28.

WHAT DO YOU SAY? AND WHAT IS YOUR SCRIPTURAL PROOF?

I'll await an answer precious @Complete.

Johann.

 

[Complete]

delete

 

[Complete]

Hi @Complete-

Like I've said-I have BBS and Grace Ambassadors before me and don't have the courage to speak out authoritatively-at the moment-since this is a bit overwhelming.

One question-if I may-

MEMBERS OF THE BODY OF CHRIST ARE NOT SAVED ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS, BUT ACCORDING TO GOD’S PURPOSE AND GRACE WHICH WAS GIVEN THEM IN CHRIST JESUS BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. II Timothy 1:9. THIS IS CALLED GOD’S ETERNAL PURPOSE IN CHRIST. THIS PURPOSE WAS IN GOD’S MIND AND GOD’S PLAN AGES BEFORE HE MADE HIS COVENANT WITH ABRAHAM. BUT ONE GREAT QUESTION, WHICH PERHAPS REMAINS UNANSWERED IN THE MINDS OF MOST CHURCH-MEMBERS, IS: “WHEN DID THE BODY OF CHRIST BEGIN HISTORICALLY?

THE POSTMILLENARIAN TEACHES THAT THE BODY OF CHRIST, THE CHURCH OF GOD AND ISRAEL ARE ALL THE SAME CHURCH IN DIFFERENT STAGES.

SOME PREMILLENARIANS ARE SURE THE BODY BEGAN WHEN CHRIST BREATHED UPON HIS APOSTLES. John 20:22.

OTHER PREMILLENARIANS TEACH THAT THE CHURCH BEGAN ON THE DAY OF PENTECOST.

OTHER PREMILLENARIANS SAY, AFTER THE THIRTEENTH CHAPTER OF ACTS.

AND STILL OTHERS SAY, AFTER THE WORDS OF PAUL RECORDED IN THE CLOSE OF ACTS, IN ACTS 28:25 to 28.

WHAT DO YOU SAY? AND WHAT IS YOUR SCRIPTURAL PROOF?

I'll await an answer precious @Complete.

Johann.

Hello @Johann,

What matters is what the Bible says isn't it? Unadulterated by our own understanding.

All of these classifications are borne of man's understanding. I would prefer not to get embroiled in such things.

If I have not made myself clear enough already, that you feel you need me to provide yet more proof, Johann, I am sorry: for I obviously have not expressed myself very well.

Within the love of Christ our Saviour
our Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[Johann]

It is sad to hear such distinctions made of individual believers, such as, 'Acts 28ers' in reply#77. As I am one who acknowledges Acts 28 to be a landmark moment in regard to the Church which is the Body of Christ, I object to being so classified: for it is as a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ that I want to be defined, and nothing else.

If this is now becoming a thread where such comparisons are going to be made, I would prefer not to be part of it.

That was not my intention to be facetious towards you @Complete-far from it-I gave you the link that shows clearly the hard questions we need to answer.

https://bereanbiblesociety.org/some-simple-thoughts-concerning-body-truth/#:~:text=and the same.-,SEVENTH,-—MEMBERS OF THE--my guess is you would be in disagreement with Berean Bible Society?

What it does show me is that there are-in dispentationalism-various teachings, some Hyper and some not so Hyper-Scofield, Bullinger, Breaker online-BBS and Grace Ambassadors-and I am only looking for truth, rightly cutting straight the word of God. Which one is rightly dividing the Scriptures?
Shalom.

Mat 12:20 A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

@Complete @civic
Truly where Christ Jesus can be found gathered with those in him, is his kingdom present.
He is the King of Kings & Lord of Lords.

There is a coming time when we will sit with him in his heavenly kingdom. Our finite minds cannot comprehend the full concept nor splendor that awaits the faithful.
Matthew 25:31-34
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

In this Psalm God is noted to be the ruler as well as the creator of all, both heaven & earth..
Psalms 103:19 - The LORD hath prepared his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom ruleth over all.

Jesus represented and presented the kingdom of God to all whom would believe on the Son.
Mark 1:15 - And saying, The
time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

We are not to seek our own fulfillment here above his kingdom to come, whether in our comforts of shelter, clothing, meat nor drink but to 1st sek his righteousness, which is Christ and he will give unto us such as we need.
Matthew 6:33 - But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Jesus further told us his kingdom is NOT of THIS world but is above.
John 18:36 - Jesus answered,
My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

It is lovely to be a part of his body, his church and his bride while waiting for his second coming, however our real glory awaits us when we can enter his heavenly kingdom and be free from this mortal tabernacle and reign with him in his heavenly kingdom.

Romans 8:16-17
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Be blessed my brethren

 

[Complete]

Hi @Complete-

Like I've said-I have BBS and Grace Ambassadors before me and don't have the courage to speak out authoritatively-at the moment-since this is a bit overwhelming.

One question-if I may-

MEMBERS OF THE BODY OF CHRIST ARE NOT SAVED ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS, BUT ACCORDING TO GOD’S PURPOSE AND GRACE WHICH WAS GIVEN THEM IN CHRIST JESUS BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. II Timothy 1:9. THIS IS CALLED GOD’S ETERNAL PURPOSE IN CHRIST. THIS PURPOSE WAS IN GOD’S MIND AND GOD’S PLAN AGES BEFORE HE MADE HIS COVENANT WITH ABRAHAM. BUT ONE GREAT QUESTION, WHICH PERHAPS REMAINS UNANSWERED IN THE MINDS OF MOST CHURCH-MEMBERS, IS: “WHEN DID THE BODY OF CHRIST BEGIN HISTORICALLY?

THE POSTMILLENARIAN TEACHES THAT THE BODY OF CHRIST, THE CHURCH OF GOD AND ISRAEL ARE ALL THE SAME CHURCH IN DIFFERENT STAGES.

SOME PREMILLENARIANS ARE SURE THE BODY BEGAN WHEN CHRIST BREATHED UPON HIS APOSTLES. John 20:22.

OTHER PREMILLENARIANS TEACH THAT THE CHURCH BEGAN ON THE DAY OF PENTECOST.

OTHER PREMILLENARIANS SAY, AFTER THE THIRTEENTH CHAPTER OF ACTS.

AND STILL OTHERS SAY, AFTER THE WORDS OF PAUL RECORDED IN THE CLOSE OF ACTS, IN ACTS 28:25 to 28.

WHAT DO YOU SAY? AND WHAT IS YOUR SCRIPTURAL PROOF?

I'll await an answer precious @Complete.

Johann.

The Acts 28 Crisis - Believer.com

The Crisis That Occurred At The Time Of Acts 28 And How Israel Became Lo-Ammi We are getting new readers all the time, and they will likely get various impressi...

believer.com

Hello @Johann,

Forgive me please for taking your words personally. Tiredness is my only excuse.

I haven't got it in me to respond to this at the moment: but I found the link above which looks quite interesting in regard to your question. I will come back tomorrow and address this, God willing, when my husband has stopped watching Wales playing rugby in the background, and my mind is fresh.

 

[Johann]

The Acts 28 Crisis - Believer.com

The Crisis That Occurred At The Time Of Acts 28 And How Israel Became Lo-Ammi We are getting new readers all the time, and they will likely get various impressi...

believer.com

Hello @Johann,

Forgive me please for taking your words personally. Tiredness is my only excuse.

I haven't got it in me to respond to this at the moment: but I found the link above which looks quite interesting in regard to your question. I will come back tomorrow and address this, God willing, when my husband has stopped watching Wales playing rugby in the background, and my mind is fresh.

Please forgive me as well-I can be a bit abrasive -sometimes.

So we find a rather strange situation in the synagogues. The apostles of the circumcision had only a message for the Jews, but on the other hand, Paul had messages for both Jews and Gentiles. But it was all about the Kingdom to come, not some other gospel. The Kingdom was in view as long as Israel was a people. The divorce of Hosea 3:1-5 finally happened in Acts 28. Since that time, Israel has not been a people. After two days will be their restoration which you find in Hosea 6:2. So Israel still has a future. The promises to Abraham will be fulfilled!

From the dedication of the temple in Jerusalem after the captivity till the birth of Christ was about 401 years. A time of silence as far as Scriptures were concerned. From His birth till the beginning of His ministry was 30 years. His ministry was preceded by a six months ministry by John the Baptist. This was the first sowing in Matthew 13:3-9. Then The Lord's ministry was the second sowing, and it lasted three and half years. Both these sowings brought forth very little harvest. The wayside was not a good place for sowing, nor was stony ground. These two sowings took four years.

The Book of Acts was the third sowing, and that was in thorny ground. And we see the result at the end of the Acts period. It was a field that had to be burnt to get rid of the thorns (Hebrews 6:8). A common practice even today. Note that the fourth sowing is in Revelation 7:1-17, a great harvest. But back to The Book of Acts.

from the same site-Believer.com.

I am up from morning to morning-plus we have regular power outs in South Africa-just going through Berrean Bible Society-Grace Ambassadors and thank you for the link, I have bookmarked it

Thank you for your meek spirit @Complete-may you never lose it.
Your brother in Christ Jesus.
Johann.

 

[Complete]

Hi @Complete-

Like I've said-I have BBS and Grace Ambassadors before me and don't have the courage to speak out authoritatively-at the moment-since this is a bit overwhelming.

One question-if I may-

MEMBERS OF THE BODY OF CHRIST ARE NOT SAVED ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS, BUT ACCORDING TO GOD’S PURPOSE AND GRACE WHICH WAS GIVEN THEM IN CHRIST JESUS BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. II Timothy 1:9. THIS IS CALLED GOD’S ETERNAL PURPOSE IN CHRIST. THIS PURPOSE WAS IN GOD’S MIND AND GOD’S PLAN AGES BEFORE HE MADE HIS COVENANT WITH ABRAHAM. BUT ONE GREAT QUESTION, WHICH PERHAPS REMAINS UNANSWERED IN THE MINDS OF MOST CHURCH-MEMBERS, IS: “WHEN DID THE BODY OF CHRIST BEGIN HISTORICALLY?

THE POSTMILLENARIAN TEACHES THAT THE BODY OF CHRIST, THE CHURCH OF GOD AND ISRAEL ARE ALL THE SAME CHURCH IN DIFFERENT STAGES.

SOME PREMILLENARIANS ARE SURE THE BODY BEGAN WHEN CHRIST BREATHED UPON HIS APOSTLES. John 20:22.

OTHER PREMILLENARIANS TEACH THAT THE CHURCH BEGAN ON THE DAY OF PENTECOST.

OTHER PREMILLENARIANS SAY, AFTER THE THIRTEENTH CHAPTER OF ACTS.

AND STILL OTHERS SAY, AFTER THE WORDS OF PAUL RECORDED IN THE CLOSE OF ACTS, IN ACTS 28:25 to 28.

WHAT DO YOU SAY? AND WHAT IS YOUR SCRIPTURAL PROOF?

I'll await an answer precious @Complete.

Johann.

Hello @Johann,

Apart from the specific words of Eph. 3:9 and Col. 1:26 concerning the truths contained in the letters written from Prison, which tell us that the truths made known by Paul, which he received by Divine revelation, had been hid in God prior to their revealing, from ages and generations, since the world began, there are other indications in the written record which confirm this. As this truth revealed was the truth regarding the Church which is His (Christ's) Body, 'the fulness of Him that filleth all in all' of Eph. 1:22-23, then that Church came into being upon the reception of that truth.

The letters of Ephesians and Colossians are addressed to 'saints' and 'faithful' believers, and not to the unbelieving. They did not contain a gospel message of salvation by grace, but brought those already saved recipients of this truth together into the Body of Christ of which their risen and glorified Saviour was both Lord and Head.

In this company both Jew and Gentile believers were equal and united in their Head, welded together as a joint body, the Jew no longer having precedence. Israel having ceased to be a nation after AD70, being scattered among the nations.

Having heard and believed that the truth concerning The Mystery, which applies to the church which is the Body of Christ, was 'hid in God' prior to it's revelation by the risen Christ to Paul: for me to turn around and seek to find the church which is the Body of Christ in the epistles written prior to it's revelation, would be an indication of gross unbelief on my part.

For me that is enough. I need no other evidence though it is there in the absence of this truth in the conversation between Paul and the Ephesians elders in Acts 20, which I believe took place in AD. 58/59. Paul was arrested in AD.59 in Jerusalem and arrived in Rome in AD.62, then both he and Peter were martyred in AD.67. Titus destroyed Jerusalem in AD.70. ('The Chronology of the Old Testament' by Dr Floyd Nolan Jones).

Ephesians, Philippians & Colossians were written in late AD.62,and 2 Timothy & Titus probably in late AD.67, prior to Paul's death.

In 2 Timothy we learn from Paul that the churches in Asia, had turned away from Paul, which indicates that they did not receive His letters, written from prison, with faith. The truth concerning the Church which is the Body of Christ, of which He is the Head, was not acknowledged by them. We know that Timothy and Titus heard and believed, for to Timothy was given that good deposit of truth, and Titus confessed to looking for the appearing of Christ in glory, when as Paul says in Colossians, the members of the Body of Christ will appear with Him there.

I hope that this is of use to you, Johann.
I am a learner too.

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[Complete]

Please forgive me as well-I can be a bit abrasive -sometimes.

So we find a rather strange situation in the synagogues. The apostles of the circumcision had only a message for the Jews, but on the other hand, Paul had messages for both Jews and Gentiles. But it was all about the Kingdom to come, not some other gospel. The Kingdom was in view as long as Israel was a people. The divorce of Hosea 3:1-5 finally happened in Acts 28. Since that time, Israel has not been a people. After two days will be their restoration which you find in Hosea 6:2. So Israel still has a future. The promises to Abraham will be fulfilled!

From the dedication of the temple in Jerusalem after the captivity till the birth of Christ was about 401 years. A time of silence as far as Scriptures were concerned. From His birth till the beginning of His ministry was 30 years. His ministry was preceded by a six months ministry by John the Baptist. This was the first sowing in Matthew 13:3-9. Then The Lord's ministry was the second sowing, and it lasted three and half years. Both these sowings brought forth very little harvest. The wayside was not a good place for sowing, nor was stony ground. These two sowings took four years.

The Book of Acts was the third sowing, and that was in thorny ground. And we see the result at the end of the Acts period. It was a field that had to be burnt to get rid of the thorns (Hebrews 6:8). A common practice even today. Note that the fourth sowing is in Revelation 7:1-17, a great harvest. But back to The Book of Acts.

from the same site-Believer.com.

I am up from morning to morning-plus we have regular power outs in South Africa-just going through Berrean Bible Society-Grace Ambassadors and thank you for the link, I have bookmarked it

Thank you for your meek spirit @Complete-may you never lose it.
Your brother in Christ Jesus.
Johann.

Interesting, Johann,

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Johann]

Interesting, Johann,

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Just woke up @Complete -I need some coffee in a hurry.
J.

 

[Complete]

Hi @Johann,

It is 1:15 here in the UK. I am looking forward to my mid-day meal. Sat at the table with my Bible and laptop open, the weak winter sun shining through the window. I hope you have a good day, with your pit-helmet on, and a pick and shovel at the ready, light on and in place, ready for another journey into the depths of the word of God. For the nuggets and gems are not found on the surface are they?

Happy hunting.
Within Christ Jesus
our Saviour, Lord and Head.
Now sat at God's right hand,
and we 'in' Him.
Chris