Biblical Differences Between...

[Complete]

Done and done.

Do you notice the word "essentially" in what I wrote?

I then went on to define how these terms are related and the small way in which they are different.

Consider the difference between a revolutionary war from a civil war. Consider the "Russian Revolution of 1917" and the "American Civil War" were both misnamed. Russia was a civil war where the head of State was deposed.

America's 2nd Revolutionary War was NOT a civil war because if the Confederacy won, Abraham Lincoln would still be President over the USA, albeit the USA would just have been geographically similar. This is exactly the way it was in America's 1st Revolutionary War, where King George III remained King of England. And again, this was true even though England lost the war.

Now, I've held my ground. You claim these terms are not essentially similar but have not explained how so.

@Wrangler said:-
I just want to say I reject the dichotomy you put forth and hold the terms as essentially synonymous.
The "kingdom" is where God's Spirit has dominion. It is occupied by a growing number of saints, living and dead.

Hello @Wrangler,

I am sorry if I did not understand you as I should. I am not surprised, for this thread, though thoroughly enjoyable, has been full-on.

* The Kingdom is not here, for the King is not here (Heb. 2:8): whereas the Church of the Prison Epistles (Eph. Phil & Col) is here and in the world, and is waiting for it's heavenward call (Phil 3:11, 14). The church which is the Body of Christ is not the subject of prophecy, but, on the contrary, was kept secret, hidden in God, until the time came for it's secret to be revealed: whereas The Kingdom is the one great subject of prophecy.

* The Lord taught His disciples to pray, 'Thy Kingdom come.' it awaits the coming of the King.

* Sorry, Wrangler, but I am not able to provide anything else to prove the point.

* Could it just be a matter of perspective, that you and I are thinking very differently, thinking along parallel lines, so that never the twain shall meet?

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[Johann]

* I believe that in looking at the usage of the word Kingdom (above), we have no need to look at the usage of the other term (Body/Church) to see that they are not synonymous terms.

The Kingdom of God — Of Prophecy and of “The Mystery”
by Roland N. Icke, M.D.


Most of Scripture is concerned with the prophesied Kingdom of God, also called the Kingdom of Heaven in Matthew’s Gospel. Prophecy and its fulfillment under the Messiah have primary reference to God’s sovereignly-chosen people, Israel. The specific Kingdom, called the “Kingdom of His dear Son,” “…of His Christ,” was not prophesied. God’s eternal purpose to save Gentiles in a joint body with Jews was “Hid in God” as a sacred secret (“the mystery“) until fulfilled. This mystery was revealed thereafter by the glorified Christ, through Paul’s epistles.

Alva J. McClain wrote in “The Greatness of the Kingdom,” p. 284: “The events attending the appearance of the Messianic King indicate a literal identity between the Kingdom preached in the Gospels and that of Old Testament prophecy.” (Alva J. McClain, “The Greatness of the Kingdom,” p. 284. Moody Press, Chicago, IL.)

There is at least one phase of the Kingdom of God which is equivalent to the Kingdom of Heaven. This has reference to the prophetic Kingdom about which Jesus and His Apostles preached while He was with them on earth, and which they preached during the early Acts period. He was proclaimed to be Israel’s Messiah and King, the Heir promised to David (II Sam. 7:16), and the Son promised to Mary (Luke 1:31-33). He was “the Christ,” concerning whom the prophets spoke (Isa. 9:7, and chapter 53).

The term “Kingdom of Heaven” is used more than 30 times in the Gospel of Matthew, and the term “Kingdom of God” is used in more than 70 other references. Sometimes these refer to the same Kingdom and at other times they are different. This leads to the conclusion that the designation “Kingdom of God” is a universal term. It includes the Kingdom of Heaven and all other aspects of God’s jurisdiction over His creation, whether animal, vegetable, mineral, life, matter, energy, light or time. In these cases, the context often reveals a more specific designation. There are many aspects and phases of “The Kingdom.” No single definition is adequate for all these broad terms. God had a Theocratic Kingdom in the past. His prophesied Theocratic (Messianic) Kingdom was “at hand” when Christ was on earth. It is now in absentia but it will be restored after the tribulation, established in “the millennium,” and continue in eternity. Today, believers are members of the unprophesied Kingdom (to be considered later).

The Kingdom of God -- Of Prophecy and of "The Mystery"

Most of Scripture is concerned with the prophesied Kingdom of God, also called the Kingdom of Heaven in Matthew's Gospel. Prophecy and its fulfillment under the Messiah have primary reference to God's sovereignly-chosen people, Israel. The specific Kingdom, called the "Kingdom of His dear Son," "…of

bereanbiblesociety.org

Your brother in Christ

 

[Grace ambassador]

One last issue, before my Final Conclusion:

Acts 2 dispensationalists believe "The Body Of Christ" was created then...
...the stumble/or fall [Acts 7]? of Israel's leaders before God...

The repentance of Israel was vital for God's purposes for Israel to be fully achieved. For they would then have become priests unto God among the nations, and all that was written in the prophets would have come to pass for them.

Precious sister, I agree with "this excellent section", but I did not see any of your "sketchy-at-best"
view about whether or not Israel "stumbled at The Cross," and then "fell" in Acts 7, or was it in
Acts 28? Sorry, I apologize if I wasn't more specific "about what I was looking for."

So, now I see the proposals here could be either:

1) Acts 9:​

​

Israel "fell" in Acts 7, God Raised Up Paul, The New Dispensation Of Grace / Body Of Christ,​

With The Risen and Glorified Lord Jesus, As Head, was formed in Acts 9, Paul being "the​

first member," and pattern for all "hereafter would be saved", the Jew first and the Gentile​

[ Cornelius' household ch. 10? ], forming the New Joint-Body, as you have well-pointed out,​

defining as:​

​

"both believing Jew and gentile to share a unity and equality never before experienced, in a​

joint body, of which Christ was the Head"​

​

2) Acts 28:​

​

Israel rejected Paul's "non-Body Of Christ message" to them, they then "fell" and were​

set aside by God, then the Body Of Christ was formed, and Paul thereafter only went "to​

the Gentiles" thereafter, with the "Body Of Christ Message," continuing unto today,​

and us, Correct?​

​

I have difficulty with this proposal, if true, seeing "only a Gentile" Body Of Christ, not a
"joint-body"

Thus, I Must choose option 1), because of Christ's previous words to Israel:

a) "And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which​

bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. " (Mat 3:10)​

+

b) "He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard;​

and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. Then said he unto the​

dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig​

tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?​

​

And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig​

about it, and dung it: And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou​

shalt cut it down." (Luke 13:6-9)​

I believe this is referring to "the one year" from Pentecost until "the stoning of Stephen,
in Acts 7, the "stiff-necked" leaders of Israel rejecting "the Spirit-Filled" preaching, thus
committing "The Unpardonable sin" [ "no fruit / axe laid"? ].

Plus, one could raise questions about "a young man" (vs. 58), in this horrible incident, eh?

​

My Final Conclusion is still "a work in progress," hopefully forthcoming soon...

Regards In Christ,
Brother ChrisE

 

[Complete]

Hello @Grace ambassador,

I have to apologise to you, for I can't follow your reasoning in this entry. It could have something to do with the fact that we express ourselves so differently.

I would prefer, having summarised my belief (in outline), in reply#60, regarding the position of Israel during the Acts period, as requested: to leave it as it is, and not debate it further on any level. I will leave it with the Lord.

Thank you,
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Complete]

file:///C:/Users/kh/Downloads/SB044-Israel-in-the-Acts-Period.pdf

Hello @Grace ambassador & @Johann,
You may appreciate the following copied from the link above:-

ISRAEL IN THE ACTS PERIOD The ACTS PERIOD

The ACTS PERIOD referred to in the subject of this study has to do with that thirty-three year period of which the Book of Acts is the history. This began with the resurrection of Jesus Christ. It ended with Paul's two years of ministry in his own rented house in Rome. In this study I will seek to provide the Biblical answer to the question-What did the people of Israel, those in Palestine as well as the dispersed ones, do in regard to the presentation of the crucified and risen Savior? We have already seen in previous studies the limited knowledge that existed concerning the man Jesus before His resurrection. The full presentation of Him could not be made until He had been crucified and risen. However, one becomes a believer by believing the truth that is at hand, and the Gospel evidence shows that the overwhelming majority of the two and one-half million Jews who then lived in Palestine believed whatever truth concerning Him was available to them. Thus, they were dealt with according to the word of Christ that "unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall much be required" (Luke 12:48). There were those who knew by divine revelation that He was the Christ (the Messiah), the Son of God (Matt. 16: 16, 17). These were told not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait there for the promise of the Father, of which they had already been told. After this they would be witnesses unto Him in Jerusalem, in all Judea, in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth (Acts 1.4, 8). On that memorable day of Pentecost, 120 of these believers were assembled together. Everyone of those was a Jew who had found in the man Jesus the fulfillment of God's promise of the Messiah. At this time there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven (Acts 2:5). This description of their character would certainly indicate that these were a part of the flock of the great Shepherd, of whom He had already said, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me" (John 10.27). After Peter's message and the witnessing of the 120 was completed, 3,000 souls were added; so the number that believed in the crucified and risen Messiah was 3,120. And .this was in Jerusalem, the very city in which the Lord Jesus had been condemned to death, and where acknowledgment of Him could bring the same penalty. As the witnessing continued and many miracles were performed, those who believed had favor with all the people; and the Lord continued to add to the 3,120 those who were being saved in that place (Acts 2:41-47). The words "to the church" do not belong to the text here, and their insertion is evidence of the concerted drive of church theologians to get Israel out and get the church in. The second message of Peter brought further astonishing results and even though the apostles were placed under arrest, "many of them which heard the Word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand" (Acts 4:4). Peter's success was phenomenal. Luke's accurate account speaks only of five thousand men and does not include the women and children, of whom there must have been a due proportion. A very conservative estimate would be that there were 15,000 believers in Jerusalem, everyone of whom was a Jew, not a single Gentile among them. These now stand as "the Israel of God" in contrast with "Israel after the flesh" (Gal 6:16,1 Cor. 10:18). They were Israelites by birth; they became the Israel of God by faith in Jesus Christ. They never ceased to be Israelites. The Sadducees who had caused the arrest of the apostles could find nothing for which they might be punished; so they let. them go "because of the people, for all men glorified God for that which was done" (Acts 4.21), a declaration which reveals the general attitude of the people in Jerusalem toward the Lord Jesus. Free for the time being, the apostles continued to proclaim that Jesus was the Christ, with the result that "believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women" (Acts 5:14). Miracles abounded, so that out of the cities round about Jerusalem there came a multitude bringing the sick and those vexed by unclean spirits, and they were healed everyone (Acts 5:16). This glorious ministry filled the high priest and the sect of the Sadducees with jealousy, so the apostles were again arrested and placed in the common prison. From this the Lord miraculously delivered them and their ministry was resumed with the result that the number of disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly and a great company of the priests became obedient unto the faith (Acts 6:7). We lose all track of numbers here, but in regard to this, R. C. H. Lenski, the Lutheran commentator, says: "Luke's figures and further notes about the growth make the estimate of 25,000 believers in and near Jerusalem at the time of Stephen's martyrdom seem conservative." Twenty-five years later in Jerusalem, James said to Paul, "Thou seest brother how many thousands of Jews there are which believe, and they are all zealous of the law" (Acts 21:20). The word "thousands" here can only be considered as an attempt by translators to minimize the truth. The Greek word murias means ten thousand.; here it is plural (muriades), and it means tens of thousands. And when we remember that the resident population of Jerusalem was only 30,000, we can come to no other conclusion than that the overwhelming majority of Jews in Jerusalem and Palestine became believers in and followers of the crucified and risen Jesus. Up to the time of Stephen's martyrdom, all witnessing centered in Jerusalem. After his execution a great persecution arose and the believers were forced to scatter abroad, going everywhere heralding the Word. And many readers, of course, will wonder why, if there were so many of them, they did not fight back. The answer is obvious. They could not resist, since they had been warned "all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword" (Matt. 26: 52 ) . Furthermore, they had been told that when persecuted in one city to flee to another (Matt. 10:23). However, we know that when they were scattered abroad and went everywhere proclaiming the Word, it was proclaimed "to none but unto Jews only" (Acts 11:19). Their success continued to be phenomenal. In Samaria, the people with one accord gave heed to the message of Philip (Acts 8:6). Another witness of great power was provided by the conversion of Saul (Paul), a Jew, one of the aristocracy, who could speak to all Jews of whatever level. He would later use the fact of his conversion as positive proof that God had not severed Himself from or cast away His people (Rom. 11:1). The healing of Aeneas by Peter resulted in all who lived at Lydda and Saron turning to the Lord (Acts 9:35); and the resurrection of Dorcas caused many in Joppa to believe in the Lord (Acts 9:42).

These were Jews that believed. At this point in the Acts period, eight years after the resurrection, a new element entered the scene. Peter was commissioned to proclaim the Word to one Gentile family, the house of Cornelius, which he did with complete success; and this was both the beginning and the end of his ministry to the Gentiles. After Acts 12, Peter was no longer prominent, and Paul began to fill the scene. From Acts 13 to Acts 28, we follow the. independent ministry of the Apostle Paul. The out-called ones of God in Antioch were directed by the Holy Spirit to release all controls and direction of Barnabas and Paul so that they might do the work to which the Lord had called them. What this work was can be determined the moment it begins (Acts 14:1, 2). Together they. traveled to Seleucia, a seaport, and landed at Salamis on the Isle of Cyprus. There "they preached the Word in the synagogue of the Jews" (Acts 13: 5). Thus, "to the Jew first" dominates every act of ministry in the Acts period (Acts 3: 26; 10:36; 13:46; Rom. 1: 16). To the Jew first is stamped on every page of the Acts of the Apostles. This obligation having been fulfilled on the Isle of Cyprus, they were able to accept the invitation of Sergius Paulus, a Gentile, who desired to hear the Word of God (Acts 13:7). He heard, he saw, and he believed. Their next stop was in Antioch in Pisidia, where they went into the synagogue, and by invitation of the rulers they heralded the Word and proclaimed Jesus as the Messiah. The effect was good and the results were excellent even though much opposition arose during the week that followed which led them to break off their ministry to the Jews and turn to the Gentiles (Acts 13: 42-49 ). Thus, the Word of the Lord was published throughout all that region. Some interpreters try to make this to be the end of Paul's ministry to the Jews, but at their next stop in Iconium, Paul went with Barnabas into the synagogue and spake in such manner that a great multitude of the Jews and also of the Gentiles believed (Acts 14:1). The words "and so spake" indicate that they followed the divine order, "to the Jew first, and also to the Greek" Paul did not violate the truth which he later declared in his Roman epistle (Rom. 1:16). Their success created a sharp division in the city, and when persecution arose, they fled to Lystra and Derbe and there preached the gospel. In Philippi, Thessalonica, Berea, Corinth, and Ephesus, Paul continued his ministry in the synagogues. The results were good everywhere in spite of increasing opposition on the part of some Jews and some Gentiles (Acts 16, 17, 18, 19). In Ephesus there was extreme opposition, but the results were such that we are told, "mightily grew the Word of God and prevailed." At this point Paul's ministry took a different track as he headed toward Jerusalem. There he was arrested and in time was brought as a prisoner to Rome. There, after three days, he called the chief of the Jews together, who declared they were glad to hear him, stating that all they knew about this sect was that everywhere it was spoken against (Acts 28-17-22). Gladly they appointed him a day during which he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, besides persuading them concerning Jesus, both from the law of Moses and the prophets from morning to evening. The result was that some believed the things that were spoken and some believed not. Concerning this, let us consider the words of another. 'We feel safe in saying that in all Paul's career he scored no greater success in a single day's work than on the day which Luke describes in v. 23, etc. He converted half of the rabbis and leaders of the eleven synagogues in the capital of the world! Oi men oi de (v. 24) equals 50-50 according to our way of speaking. . . Converting the rabbis and the leaders could mean only one thing, namely that these rabbis took the gospel of Paul into their synagogues with the result that whole synagogues were converted, and the members who refused withdrew to other synagogues." R. C. H. Lenski. The conclusion is inescapable. The Word of God shows that the overwhelming majority of Jews in Palestine and in the exile became believers in the Lord Jesus Christ during the Acts period. This is the truth. Where it may lead us and what changes it makes in our thinking is up to each one of us to find out'​

Otis O Sellers (deceased)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Grace ambassador]

Acts 9 Formation Of The Body Of Christ
Part I, Part II, continued in:

Part III

@Complete, @Johann, @civic

Precious friends, I would like to finish up my part of our great discussion
with A Bible study Concluding with these three thoughts:

A) The meaning of the original Greek word 'musterion' = mystery / secret​

​

B) The cohesion of All of Paul's God-Given Letters to The Body Of Christ​

​

C) Paul as "masterbuilder" and The Body Of Christ Judgment:​

======================

A) the meaning of the original Greek word 'musterion' = mystery / secret

Precious friends, since we all wish to be "good stewards",
in preparation for rewards at Judgment, Correct?

"Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ,​

and stewards of The Mysteries of God." (1 Corinthians 4:1)​

Should we not prayerfully and carefully ask: Is this definition
"mystery / secret" applicable to all of the following?:

"Now to Him That Is Of Power To Stablish you According To my Gospel,​

and the preaching of Jesus Christ, According To The Revelation Of ​

The Mystery, Which Was Kept Secret since the world began,"​

(Rom 16:25)​

​

"But we speak The Wisdom of God in A Mystery, even The Hidden​

Wisdom, Which God Ordained before the world unto our glory:"​

(1Co 2:7)​

​

"Having Made Known Unto us The Mystery Of His Will,​

According To His Good Pleasure Which He Hath Purposed​

In Himself:" (Eph 1:9)​

​

"How that By Revelation He Made Known Unto me​

The Mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words," (Eph 3:3)​

​

"Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my​

knowledge in The Mystery of Christ)" (Eph 3:4)​

​

"And to make all men see What Is The Fellowship Of ​

The Mystery, Which from the beginning of the world​

Hath Been Hid in God, Who created all things by Jesus Christ:"​

(Eph 3:9)​

​

"And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open​

my mouth boldly, to make known The Mystery Of The Gospel,"​

(Eph 6:19)​

​

"Even The Mystery Which Hath Been Hid from ages and from​

generations, But Now Is Made Manifest to His saints:" (Col 1:26)​

​

"To whom God would Make Known What Is The Riches Of​

The Glory Of This Mystery among the Gentiles; Which Is​

Christ In you, The Hope Of Glory:" (Col 1:27)​

​

"Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance,​

to speak The Mystery of Christ, for Which I am also in bonds:" (Col 4:3)​

-------------
Now, the Acts 9 position, according to Bible Study Rule # 3, "...Keep everything in
Context..." takes/believes/acknowledges all these Mysteries as Written, and That
They Were "Hid In God", "Hid From ages and generations", "Ordained Before the
the world", and, "Kept Secret since the world began."

By comparison, we must kindly ask the proponents of the Acts 28 position:

Do they have an [ unknown? ] "rule of hermeneutics/logic" that is secret/not yet
revealed to us, that we are "not aware of yet". that allows the following to be:

"taken out of the above Context"...​

"Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my​

knowledge in The Mystery of Christ)" (Eph 3:4)​

+

"Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance,​

to speak The Mystery of Christ, for Which I am also in bonds:" (Col 4:3)​

...and thus be interpreted to "mean the following"?:

This [ particular 'mystery' revealed to Paul, but not to him alone ] "was Also previously
searchable, revealed/made known in the OT, but, This was just simply Misunderstood" upon
being 'revealed' to those OT prophets, thus "making only the meaning 'hidden/secret'"
instead of the "revelation of such."

Would not this kind of interpretation 'negate' the meaning of "Hid In God/Kept Secret"?
Yes, I do agree with "words do have meanings" to be 'acknowledged, accepted, and believed'.

Thus, this contradiction [ although seeming and may be "explainable" by Acts 28 theologians ]
has convinced me, for the moment anyway, to stay with:

Acts 9 Formation Of The Body Of Christ​

PS. To be fair, we are aware of the "types, figures, and allegories" which are revealed
in the OT, but, they could not be understood until the "realities" were shown in the NT.
So, would they not be in a Different 'Category' than Mysteries/Secrets?

As our precious friend, @civic encourages with: "hope this helps"

to be continued in B) and C) - thanks for all your patience! ♫ ↑
...

 

[Grace ambassador]

Acts 9 Formation Of The Body Of Christ
Part III

A) post # 66​

​

B) the cohesion of All of Paul's God-Given Letters to The Body Of Christ​

Acts 28 formation of The Body splits Paul's letters into the following:

​

prison = Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon, which​

they believe are applicable to The Heavenly [ Gentile only? ] Body Of Christ //​

// and the earlier ones he wrote = Romans, 1 & 2 Corinthians, Galatians,​

1 & 2 Thessalonians, 1 Timothy, which they believe are for the​

Jew/Gentile earthly kingdom?​

We, in Acts 9, do believe that the prison letters are for the Joint- [Jew/Gentile] -Body Of Christ,
as well as the earlier letters, Because:

"What Saith The Scriptures" [ in the earlier letters ]?:

1) "So we, being many, are One Body In Christ, and every one members one of another."​

(Romans 12:5) Thus, according to these "kindly supplied dates"​

"Romans .. .. .. AD 58 .. .. Acts 28:25-26 (AD 62)," then Paul and the Roman saints​

"were Already 'members' of The Joint-Body sometime before 58, not after 62,​

Correct?​

​

2) "Now ye are The Body of Christ, and members in particular."​

(1 Corinthians 12:27 = By Spiritual Baptism v. 13 "AD 57")​

​

Now, as in "are in" AD 57, or later, as in "will be, after" AD 62?​

​

3) our "position and commission," as Clearly seen in:​

"Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have​

known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we Him no more..."​

[ "no more after the flesh", but As "The Risen And Glorified Head Of His Body,"​

Correct? ]​

​

"...Therefore if any man be In Christ, [ he is ] a new creature [ cp Gal 6:15 ]:​

old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things​

are of God, Who Hath Reconciled us To Himself By Jesus Christ,​

​

and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ,​

reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and​

hath committed unto us The Word Of Reconciliation.​

​

Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us:​

we pray you in Christ's Stead, be ye reconciled to God. For He Hath Made Him to​

be sin for us, Who knew no sin; that we might be made The Righteousness Of God​

In Him." (2 Corinthians 5:16-21 cp "All-Sufficient Grace" for them and us, in 12:9)​

. . ↑ "AD 57" ↑​

4) "For as many of you as have been Baptized Into Christ have put on Christ. There​

is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor​

female: for ye are all One In Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:27-28 = "AD 57")​

​

5) If 1 Thessalonians with 1 Corinthians are not "for The Body Of Christ" then:​

​

a) the Mystery of the 'members' of The Body Of Christ, "being changed into​

incorruptibility/immortality" (1Co 15:41-52 "AD 57"), and the following...:​

​

"For The Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of​

the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:​

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in​

the clouds, to meet The Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with The Lord.​

Wherefore Comfort one another with these words."​

(1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 "AD 52")​

​

is to be considered as Unsound doctrine, not being applicable to The Acts 28 'Body'? And:

b) The Multitude Of Exhortations to be:​

​

"looking, watching, and patiently waiting" for our Blessed Hope​

(2 Thessalonians 2:1; Romans 8:18-19; Romans 8:23; Romans 8:25;​

1 Corinthians 1:7; Ephesians 6:12-18; Philippians 3:20; Colossians 4:1-3;​

1 Thessalonians 1:10; 1 Thessalonians 5:5-11; Titus 2:13)​

​

are likewise "not for" The Body Of Christ, even though "found in many earlier letters?

6) "Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God​

our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and Peace, from God our​

Father and the Lord Jesus Christ." (2 Thessalonians 1:1-2 "AD 53")​

​

Underlined portion also found in Rom 1:7, 1Co 1:3, 2Co 1:2, Gal 1:3, 1Th 1:1,
2Th 1:2, Phm 1:3, as well as Eph 1:2, Php 1:2, Col 1:2, 1Ti 1:2, 2Ti 1:2, and Tit 1:4
= cohesion, Correct?

​

7) "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came​

into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Howbeit for this cause I​

Obtained Mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering,​

for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on Him to life everlasting."​

(1 Timothy 15-16)​

​

Acts 9, Correct? God Saved Paul [ in Damascus, Far apart From Prophecy, Israel, works
of the Law, and 12 apostles ], and he was the first of "if any man be In Christ,
a new creature [ lit. creation" = The One New man = The Joint-Body Of Christ! ]

Thus, we acknowledge, before God, that all of Paul's letters from Christ, are, in
Biblical Fact, One 'cohesive unit' of The Revelation Of The Mystery/Grace
[ Hid In God "Before the foundation of the world" ], Directly For, and applicable
to all in:

The Body Of Christ, Created In Acts 9, and, that Romans Through Philemon are to be:

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

God's Other program, that of prophecy / covenants / law, for the nation of Israel, that
was "made known since the foundation of the world" (OT, Mat-Joh, Heb-Rev)...

------------------------
to be continued...

 

[Grace ambassador]

Acts 9 Formation Of The Body Of Christ
Part III

A) post # 66​

B) post # 67 section borrowed:​

2) "Now ye are The Body of Christ, and members in particular."​

(1 Corinthians 12:27 = By Spiritual Baptism v. 13 "AD 57")​

In light of this, let us briefly retrace to Chapter 3, where we find:

C) Paul as "masterbuilder" and The Body Of Christ Judgment:​

What is Paul's "Blueprint for laying The Foundation" For The Revelation of The
Mystery / Grace Message, and subsequently "all members [ from Acts 9 until
our Departure ] Of The Body Of Christ" building Thereupon as 'co-laborers'
With God in 1Co 3:8-15:

"...According to The Grace of God Which Is Given unto me, as a wise​

masterbuilder, I have laid The Foundation, and another buildeth​

Thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth Thereupon.​

For other foundation can no man lay than That is laid, Which Is ​

Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon This Foundation​

​

gold,..." [ our thought is this represents "The Deity Of Christ" ]​

​

"...silver,..."​

[ our thought is this represents "not being ashamed of, and "preaching Jesus Christ​

and His Gospel Of Grace, According to The Revelation Of The Mystery" ]​

​

"...precious stones,..."​

[ our thought is these represent acknowledging all the 'sound doctrines'​

and, obeying all of God's 'love thy neighbor' Commandments found in​

Romans-Philemon ]​

​

[ all else [ which "Paul Avoided" (Rom 15:20) ], trying to "build on another man's​

foundation," being ]:​

​

"...wood, hay, stubble...", Correct?​

A Much Better, And further detailed "Judgment Seat Of Christ" study is here.
--------------------------------------------------

Hopefully, this presentation/Conclusion has been justifiable Bible answers,
prayerfully and Carefully Following All of God's Bible Study Rules!

Thus we believe, and have spoken for the Acts 9 Formation Of The Body Of Christ.

We humbly 'respect' any who may differ with us, as each one of us will
"give an account" of our own self, To The Righteous Judge, Correct?

Precious friends, Please Be Very Richly Encouraged And Edified In Christ,
And In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided.

Brother ChrisE

 

[Complete]

Subject Heading:- 'Biblical Differences Between ... ...'
(Ref:- replies #63, #66 ,#67 ,#68)

'All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable
.. for doctrine,
.... for reproof,
...... for correction,
........ for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect,
throughly furnished unto all good works.'
(2Timothy 3:16-17)

Hello @Grace ambassador,

Thank you for stating your position as a Mid Acts Dispensationalist.

As one who is an Acts 28 Dispensationalist, I hold to the fact that the letters written from prison, by Paul (Eph, Phil, Col, 2 Tim. Titus, and Phile.) contain all the truth regarding the Church which is the Body of Christ: on the basis of the truth revealed in Romans 5:12-8:39; for prior to their writing, The Mystery, made known exclusively to Paul, had been hid in God; Hidden from the ages and generations prior to it's revelation by the risen Christ (Acts 26:16).
That, for me, ends all debate. I believe what is written in Ephesians 3:8-9 and Colossians 1:26.

'Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given,
that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery,
which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God,
who created all things by Jesus Christ:'
(Eph 3:8-9)

'Whereof I am made a minister,
according to the dispensation of God
which is given to me for you,
to fulfil the word of God;
Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations,
but now is made manifest to his saints:
To whom God would make known
what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles;
which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:'
(Col 1:25-27)

Thank you
Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
Our Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[L.A.M.B.]

IMO, denominal affiliates are NOT the church but rather man-made organizations.
They are ran according to corporate rituals and traditions which are used to entrap the freedom of those of faith.
Colossians 2:8
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

That said, the church can be where any 2 or 3 are gathered together in his name, for he said he is in the midst of their gathering.
Matthew 18:20
19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

The church of God is all true believers who walk according to his standards set forth in his word. His word, and our reception of understanding it under the tutorship of the Holy Spirit is what we will be judged by.
John 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Through study I have become aware of countries that today it is illegal to possess the word of God; it is a banned reading. I do believe that time is also closing in on us worldwide as the anti-christ gets ready to reveal himself. It must be studied and devoured and hidden in our hearts for such a time of great tribulations !

Regarding the kingdom of God Jesus said.....
Luke 17:20-21
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

I pray my comment are in line with the OP and do not detract from Grace's study.

 

[Complete]

IMO, denominal affiliates are NOT the church but rather man-made organizations.
They are ran according to corporate rituals and traditions which are used to entrap the freedom of those of faith.
Colossians 2:8
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

That said, the church can be where any 2 or 3 are gathered together in his name, for he said he is in the midst of their gathering.
Matthew 18:20
19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

The church of God is all true believers who walk according to his standards set forth in his word. His word, and our reception of understanding it under the tutorship of the Holy Spirit is what we will be judged by.
John 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Through study I have become aware of countries that today it is illegal to possess the word of God; it is a banned reading. I do believe that time is also closing in on us worldwide as the anti-christ gets ready to reveal himself. It must be studied and devoured and hidden in our hearts for such a time of great tribulations !

Regarding the kingdom of God Jesus said.....
Luke 17:20-21
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

I pray my comment are in line with the OP and do not detract from Grace's study.

Hello @L.A,M.B.

As a member of the Body of Christ where all are equal, and united in Christ, I greet you as a brother-in-Christ.

I merely want to remark on your use of Luke 17:21, which you have highlighted, 'behold, the kingdom of God is within you', for the Lord Jesus Christ was not telling the Pharisees to whom He spoke that the kingdom of God was, 'IN', them individually, but corporately, for He, their King was indeed present with them, yet they failed to acknowledge Him as such.

* The kingdom of God was indeed 'in' or 'among' them in the person of their King.

I say this for there are those who use these words to assert that the Kingdom of God is within the individual believer, and that is a misuse of these words, within their context.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[civic]

Hello @L.A,M.B.

As a member of the Body of Christ where all are equal, and united in Christ, I greet you as a brother-in-Christ.

I merely want to remark on your use of Luke 17:21, which you have highlighted, 'behold, the kingdom of God is within you', for the Lord Jesus Christ was not telling the Pharisees to whom He spoke that the kingdom of God was, 'IN', them individually, but corporately, for He, their King was indeed present with them, yet they failed to acknowledge Him as such.

* The kingdom of God was indeed 'in' or 'among' them in the person of their King.

I say this for there are those who use these words to assert that the Kingdom of God is within the individual believer, and that is a misuse of these words, within their context.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Yes Jesus presence was the Kingdom in their midst.

 

[Grace ambassador]

for me, ends all debate

Thanks for the kind and respectful discussion. I believe it is "in The LORD's hands." Amen.

 

[Grace ambassador]

I pray my comment are in line with the OP and do not detract from Grace's study.

Precious friend, thanks for your participation and Valuable input to consider.

Amen.

 

[Grace ambassador]

Yes Jesus presence was the Kingdom in their midst.

So, might we say, Today, The Spiritual Organism of The Body Of Christ
"translated Into The Kingdom" (Col 1:13), as One With Him,
"...members of His Body, of His Flesh, and of His Bones" (Eph 5:30), are?:

"The Kingdom In His Midst."

Amen.

 

[civic]

So, might we say, Today, The Spiritual Organism of The Body Of Christ
"translated Into The Kingdom" (Col 1:13), as One With Him,
"...members of His Body, of His Flesh, and of His Bones" (Eph 5:30), are?:

"The Kingdom In His Midst."

Amen.

Christ dwells in us. We are the temple where His Spirit lives in us. Christ in you the Hope of Glory

 

[Johann]

As one who is an Acts 28 Dispensationalist, I hold to the fact that the letters written from prison, by Paul (Eph, Phil, Col, 2 Tim. Titus, and Phile.) contain all the truth regarding the Church which is the Body of Christ: on the basis of the truth revealed in Romans 5:12-8:39; for prior to their writing, The Mystery, made known exclusively to Paul, had been hid in God; Hidden from the ages and generations prior to it's revelation by the risen Christ (Acts 26:16).
That, for me, ends all debate. I believe what is written in Ephesians 3:8-9 and Colossians 1:26.

Precious complete--

A new dispensation was given to Paul, but it does not mean everything Paul spoke or taught was new.

He uses the word “kingdom” throughout his epistles both during Acts and in his post-Acts epistles (to the dismay of the Acts 28ers). He mentions the word “kingdom” in his epistles more often than Peter, James, and John do in their epistles combined (13 vs 11, excluding Acts).

So, what? Does this mean Paul taught the same message as Peter, James, and John? No, of course not.

Why did Paul talk about the kingdom? There are many reasons. Here are the most significant.

1. Everyone in the church, the body of Christ, is translated into the kingdom

No, this does not mean the church is spiritual Israel, nor does it mean the body of Christ will reign in Israel’s kingdom. It does mean that we in the church are under the authority of God.

Paul mentioned the kingdom of God, because he was a servant of God and under his authority.

“Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:” – Col 1:13
If you have been redeemed by the blood of Christ, and partake of the grace of God in this dispensation, you are no longer under the power of darkness, but have been moved into a position in heavenly places (Eph 2:6-7).

We are still present in this dark evil world, but our position is no longer here. We are under the headship of Christ in a heavenly dominion.

2. The kingdom of God includes both heaven and earth

The mystery of God’s will revealed to Paul how all things would be gathered together in one in Christ (Eph 1:10). This was a mystery before Paul, but describes how God will reign in the fullness of times. God had revealed his purpose for the earth, but had never spoken about the things or positions in heavenly places belonging to the church.

Part of the mystery of Christ is talking about the invisible dominion in heaven (Col 1:16).

3. The kingdom of God includes both Israel and the Church

No, I do not mean the kingdom of God on earth, which belongs to Israel and the earthly nations. I am talking about the kingdom of God universal. God’s dominion is not limited to the jurisdiction of the earth, but includes the rest of the universe, what the Bible calls the heaven.

The mystery of Christ introduces the creation of a new creature whose conversation is in heaven (Phil 3:20). This is a part of the kingdom of God that was not made known before Paul. Prophecy spoke of the kingdom of God as it will be on the earth, Christ ruling through Israel; the revelation of the mystery speaks of the kingdom of God as it will be in heavenly places, Christ ruling over the church.

4. The kingdom of God is not yet on the earth

When Paul mentions the kingdom, it is always in the future tense. This means the idea of a present kingdom of God come on earth is false. The kingdom of God is waiting for God to establish it in heaven and earth.

The gospel of the kingdom is the proclamation that the kingdom of God is at hand, or is here. Paul did not teach this gospel, knowing that the revelation of the mystery delays the coming of this kingdom to the future. He taught the reign of grace and the gospel of the grace of God. The gospel of the kingdom, and preaching the postponement of the kingdom is different.

Paul explained this delay causing interruption in the gospel of the kingdom. Peter acknowledges Paul’s explanation of the postponement of the kingdom, and that Christ is no longer sending the twelve to preach the gospel of the kingdom (2 Pet 3:15).

https://graceambassadors.com/prophecy/an-unfulfilled-kingdom-link.

At the moment still using BBS and Grace Ambassadors side by side-going S-L-O-W-L-Y through the teachings, with my Bible and the Holy Spirit since there is a LOT to ingest.

And then there are the "anti"-Dispentationalists-radically opposed to this.

Shalom.
Johann.

 

[Johann]

So, might we say, Today, The Spiritual Organism of The Body Of Christ
"translated Into The Kingdom" (Col 1:13), as One With Him,
"...members of His Body, of His Flesh, and of His Bones" (Eph 5:30), are?:

Absolutely.
J.

 

[civic]

The Kingdom of God, the Kingdom of heaven and the Kingdom of Christ are all one and the same Kingdom.

 

[civic]

Below Jesus makes them synonymous

Matthew 19:23-26 And Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.24 Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”25 When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, “Then who can be saved?”26 And looking at them Jesus said to them, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Below Paul makes the Kingdom of Christ and God one in the same.

Ephesians 5:5
For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure, or greedy person (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Colossians 1:13-He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,

conclusion: The kingdom of heaven, the kingdom of Christ and the kingdom of God are the same.

hope this helps !!!