Biblical Differences Between...

[Complete]

ditto- you have a good grasp on biblical truth and ask great questions. Keep it up. I'm always challenged to think about what I believe when I read your comments and insight. Iron sharpening iron. I appreciate your insight and comments on our forum.

Some here think my smiley faces are a form of "trolling" but if we were on a live video stream you would see my smiling face as I'm typing which is why I put the smiley face on some of my posts.

There are some who put "angry " emojis instead of a like or happy face. But they don't consider that "trolling" when you do that. I just had to say that- I just vented.

hope this helps !!!

Hello @civic,

I just use it to indicate that I 'come in peace' and that I am happy to know you.

 

[civic]

Hello @civic,

I just use it to indicate that I 'come in peace' and that I am happy to know you.

And its much appreciated and you are a great example for all of us to follow with the golden rule.

 

[civic]

Plus since this is "my forum" technically along with our Administrator I'm open for being attacked,criticized, under the microscope which comes with the territory. I'm thick skinned and I enjoy more than anything online discussing theology, apologetics. For some reason I'm hard wired that way. I do not ,like moderating but engaging with others and talking about the bible. So I'm pretty much hands off 99 % of the time when it comes to enforcing the rules and those kinds of things. I'll give reminders in posts once in a while when things get nasty. But I prefer we just respect one another and not get "personal" with comments. Discuss the issue not the poster which is what happens allot on christian forums. So it can be a war-zone at times unfortunately. But for the most part I think our forum is doing pretty good in that department. I still lurk on other forums that I have been on over the past 20 years just to see how things are going. Not many forum" owners" engage with the members and will take their criticism. I have tried in the past to contact them and never get a response. Even if this forum were to grow into 1000's of members I wouldn't change a thing. I would post daily and interact with the members here. Its what I enjoy doing and that will never change until I go blind or my hands get severe arthritis and I cannot type.

 

[Grace ambassador]

I believe that the Church which is the Body of Christ, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all (Ephesians 1:22-23). does not come into existence, until made known, as it is in the epistles to the Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon. Prior to that, this knowledge was 'hid in God' (Eph. 3:9) from 'ages' and 'generations' (Col. 1:26). If words mean anything, then these two verses have to be believed, and acknowledgement given...I mean you no discourtesy

Precious @Complete, no problem - no offense taken. I really like the kind and respectful manner
of ( "sharpening iron With iron" @civic? ) discussing Scriptures (my favorite color) with you.

So, just to clarify, are you saying "The Body Of Christ did not exist until Paul wrote the
later prison epistles" of:

Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon

And, upon "being made known (Revealed)"? or, was it: upon 'completion' of the writing
of these letters, that then The Body Of Christ 'came into existence'?

The prison epistles of Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon, were written by Paul, while in prison at the end of the Acts period. In which he made known, to the faithful, what God had revealed to him concerning the Church which is the Body of Christ. 'The Mystery' (Eph. 3), was made known to Paul only: For Him to administer to the believers under his care. It had not been made known previously, so will not be found in the epistles written prior to his imprisonment, or in any other part of Scripture, i.e., in both Old or New Testaments (Eph. 3:9; Col. 1:26) .

"Made known to Paul only"? Or: "Direct Revelation From Christ" to Paul Only, but also:

"Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now​

revealed unto His holy apostles and prophets By The Spirit" (Ephesians 3:5)?​

​

Of course, in my limited understanding of the "deep things" Of God, I would have to
continue with my previous thought, and now ask about those to whom Paul wrote:

to administer to the believers under his care.

? Precious friend, does this mean that "those already under his care" 'the faithful'(?) In:

Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon

already believed, but were then later transferred / translated / Baptized Into The New
(just "came into existence") entity, when Paul "received the [prison] Revelation," or
"completed the writing of the letters" = The One New man, The Church, The Body
Of Christ? (Ephesians 2:15)

Simply asking and checking for further Scriptural clarification/understanding of
Acts 28 dispensationalism. Thanks So Much.

--------------------
"Simplicity In Christ"?:

Of course, we, in Acts 9, see Paul, as the first member, and him as well as all subsequent
recipients of The Gospel Of Grace He preached, had/have This, written in an earlier letter:

"For By One Spirit are we all Baptized Into One Body, whether we be Jews​

or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink​

into One Spirit." (1 Corinthians 12:13) = The Church, The Body Of Christ? No?​

Sincerely yours in Christ,
Brother ChrisE

 

[Johann]

Precious @Complete, no problem - no offense taken. I really like the kind and respectful manner
of ( "sharpening iron With iron" @civic? ) discussing Scriptures (my favorite color) with you.

So, just to clarify, are you saying "The Body Of Christ did not exist until Paul wrote the
later prison epistles" of:

And, upon "being made known (Revealed)"? or, was it: upon 'completion' of the writing
of these letters, that then The Body Of Christ 'came into existence'?

"Made known to Paul only"? Or: "Direct Revelation From Christ" to Paul Only, but also:

"Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now​

revealed unto His holy apostles and prophets By The Spirit" (Ephesians 3:5)?​

​

Of course, in my limited understanding of the "deep things" Of God, I would have to
continue with my previous thought, and now ask about those to whom Paul wrote:

? Precious friend, does this mean that "those already under his care" 'the faithful'(?) In:

already believed, but were then later transferred / translated / Baptized Into The New
(just "came into existence") when Paul "received the [prison] Revelation," or "completed
the writing of the letters" entity = The One New man, The Church, The Body Of Christ?
(Ephesians 2:15)

Simply asking and checking for further Scriptural clarification/understanding of
Acts 28 dispensationalism. Thanks So Much.

--------------------
"Simplicity In Christ"?:

Of course, we, in Acts 9, see Paul, as the first member, and him as well as all subsequent
recipients of The Gospel Of Grace He preached, had/have This, written in an earlier letter:

"For By One Spirit are we all Baptized Into One Body, whether we be Jews​

or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink​

into One Spirit." (1 Corinthians 12:13) = The Church, The Body Of Christ? No?​

Sincerely yours in Christ,
Brother ChrisE

Really enjoy this thread.
J.

 

[Johann]

Really enjoy this thread.
J.

Can't wait for a reply to your question-10.40 PM.

 

[Complete]

@Grace ambassador:-

I believe that the Church which is the Body of Christ, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all (Ephesians 1:22-23). does not come into existence, until made known, as it is in the epistles to the Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon. Prior to that, this knowledge was 'hid in God' (Eph. 3:9) from 'ages' and 'generations' (Col. 1:26). If words mean anything, then these two verses have to be believed, and acknowledgement given...I mean you no discourtesy​

Precious @Complete, no problem - no offense taken. I really like the kind and respectful manner
of ( "sharpening iron With iron" @civic? ) discussing Scriptures (my favorite color) with you.

So, just to clarify, are you saying "The Body Of Christ did not exist until Paul wrote the
later prison epistles" of:

Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon

And, upon "being made known (Revealed)"? or, was it: upon 'completion' of the writing
of these letters, that then The Body Of Christ 'came into existence'?

Hello @Grace ambassador.

I believe that until 'The Mystery' (Eph.3:3 & 6-21) concerning the Body of Christ was revealed to Paul by Divine revelation, it was 'hid in God' (Eph. 1:9) therefore unknowable. It was indeed 'hid from ages and generations' (Col.1:26) therefore not the subject of either the Old Testament Prophets, the gospels, the Acts, the general epistles, or the book of Revelation, nor the epistles of Paul up to that date. Therefore was 'unsearchable' (Eph. 3:8).
Whereas, 'The Mystery of Christ' (Eph.3:3b-5)', was known to ALL the Apostles and Prophets of the New Testament, again by Divine Revelation, including Paul. This mystery was 'searchable', because the subject of the Old Testament Prophets, and the gospels, the Acts, the general epistles, and the epistles of Paul to date.

@Grace ambassador

The prison epistles of Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon, were written by Paul, while in prison at the end of the Acts period. In which he made known, to the faithful, what God had revealed to him concerning the Church which is the Body of Christ. 'The Mystery' (Eph. 3), was made known to Paul only: For Him to administer to the believers under his care. It had not been made known previously, so will not be found in the epistles written prior to his imprisonment, or in any other part of Scripture, i.e., in both Old or New Testaments (Eph. 3:9; Col. 1:26) .​

"Made known to Paul only"? Or: "Direct Revelation From Christ" to Paul Only, but also:

* Yes, made known to Paul only, by direct revelation from the risen Christ. See Acts 26:16):-

'But rise, and stand upon thy feet:
for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose,
to make thee a minister and a witness
1) both of these things which thou hast seen,
2) and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;'
(Act 26:16)

Grace ambassador.
Of course, in my limited understanding of the "deep things" Of God, I would have to
continue with my previous thought, and now ask about those to whom Paul wrote:

to administer to the believers under his care.

? Precious friend, does this mean that "those already under his care" 'the faithful'(?) In:

Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon

already believed, but were then later transferred / translated / Baptized Into The New
(just "came into existence") entity, when Paul "received the [prison] Revelation," or
"completed the writing of the letters" = The One New man, The Church, The Body
Of Christ? (Ephesians 2:15)

* The epistles that you refer to, were all addressed to, 'saints and faithful', weren't they? To those who already had faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

* At the end of the Acts when Israel departed into the blindness of unbelief, and salvation was sent to the gentiles (Acts 28:28), therefore being no longer 'of the Jew' only: it was possible, as never before, for both believing Jew and gentile to share a unity and equality never before experienced, in a joint body, of which Christ was the Head. The Jew was no longer 'first', no longer had a prior position. (Ephesians 2:14-16 ] Peace reigned, for the enmity contained in ordinances and the law of commandments, had been dealt with by Christ. He being their peace.

Grace ambassador
Simply asking and checking for further Scriptural clarification/understanding of
Acts 28 dispensationalism. Thanks So Much.
--------------------
"Simplicity In Christ"?:

Of course, we, in Acts 9, see Paul, as the first member, and him as well as all subsequent
recipients of The Gospel Of Grace He preached, had/have This, written in an earlier letter:

"For By One Spirit are we all Baptized Into One Body, whether we be Jews
or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink
into One Spirit." (1 Corinthians 12:13) = The Church, The Body Of Christ? No?

* I will have to address this in a separate response, Grace ambassador. I hope I have expressed myself clearly. My mind has been distracted , because a visitor arrived when I was in the middle of it.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Grace ambassador]

Really enjoy this thread.
J.

Precious friend and brother, thanks for these encouraging words.

I have found the following for our further edification. I can
view it on my ROKU television. But it also on u-tube:

The Dawning Of The Age Of Grace​

Please Be Very Richly Encouraged, Edified, And Comforted
In The Wonderful Truths of our Lord And Saviour Jesus Christ!

Amen.

 

[Grace ambassador]

I hope I have expressed myself clearly. My mind has been distracted , because a visitor arrived when I was in the middle of it.

Hello @Complete, looks like a very good expression to me. I will give it Careful consideration,
as you:

Enjoy your visit and take as much time as you need. Hopefully my
patience is a virtue Not , but

Brother ChrisE

 

[Complete]

"Simplicity In Christ"?:

Of course, we, in Acts 9, see Paul, as the first member, and him as well as all subsequent
recipients of The Gospel Of Grace He preached, had/have This, written in an earlier letter:

"For By One Spirit are we all Baptized Into One Body, whether we be Jews​

or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink​

into One Spirit." (1 Corinthians 12:13) = The Church, The Body Of Christ? No?​

'For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body,
whether we be Jews or Gentiles,
whether we be bond or free;
and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.'
(1Co 12:13)

Hello @Grace ambassador,

I can complete my response to reply#24 now, with a look at that last reference to 1 Corinthians 12:13:-

* Referring to this verse you ask, (quote) 'The Church, The Body Of Christ? No?' To which I must say, 'No'. Why?

* First of all this chapter is concerned with the distribution of spiritual gifts: and in 'The Church which is His (Christ's) Body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all', spiritual gifts are absent. Here in 1 Corinthians is the church which began at Pentecost, which is known for the spiritual gifts that it manifests : healing and tongues being specially linked, with the earthly kingdom ministry of which Israel is the centre and form no part of the heavenly calling of Ephesians. This is not a reference to the church which is the Body of Christ which came into existence approx. 40 years later, but an illustration, using the human body with it's many parts and functions, in regard to the distribution of spiritual gifts.

The One Body of Ephesians is distinguished from Christ as 'the Head'. The likeness of the Corinthian church to a human body and its members, speaks of eyes, ears and nose, all members of the human head and illustrative of those in the Corinthians church (1 Cor. 12:17-24). Also every member of the Body of Christ in Ephesians is 'accepted in the Beloved', but the body of 1 Corinthians twelve has 'uncomely' parts which certainly is not true of the former. In Ephesians Paul tells us that the Church related to the Mystery is a, 'joint-Body,' (Gr. sussoma), a unique word (Eph.3:6). No such body, where every member is equal in size and importance had ever existed before, either naturally or spiritually. Paul's point concerning these gifts in the Corinthian church is that no one is responsible for the kind of gift he has, so nobody should feel either superior to, or inferior to another, no matter what gift was bestowed upon them.

'So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another' (Romans 12:5), this shows the standing by grace of the Roman church in Christ, so with the Corinthian church: They were a company (body) of believers belonging to Christ (Christ's body); like all the other churches; they were not part of the 'sussoma', the joint-Body of which Christ is the Head. Nothing is said about the Headship of Christ in these Acts epistles. The 'sussoma', the joint-Body of Christ was not revealed till after Israel failed at Acts 28.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Johann]

'For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body,
whether we be Jews or Gentiles,
whether we be bond or free;
and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.'
(1Co 12:13)

Hello @Grace ambassador,

I can complete my response to reply#24 now, with a look at that last reference to 1 Corinthians 12:13:-

* Referring to this verse you ask, (quote) 'The Church, The Body Of Christ? No?' To which I must say, 'No'. Why?

* First of all this chapter is concerned with the distribution of spiritual gifts: and in 'The Church which is His (Christ's) Body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all', spiritual gifts are absent. Here in 1 Corinthians is the church which began at Pentecost, which is known for the spiritual gifts that it manifests : healing and tongues being specially linked, with the earthly kingdom ministry of which Israel is the centre and form no part of the heavenly calling of Ephesians. This is not a reference to the church which is the Body of Christ which came into existence approx. 40 years later, but an illustration, using the human body with it's many parts and functions, in regard to the distribution of spiritual gifts.

The One Body of Ephesians is distinguished from Christ as 'the Head'. The likeness of the Corinthian church to a human body and its members, speaks of eyes, ears and nose, all members of the human head and illustrative of those in the Corinthians church (1 Cor. 12:17-24). Also every member of the Body of Christ in Ephesians is 'accepted in the Beloved', but the body of 1 Corinthians twelve has 'uncomely' parts which certainly is not true of the former. In Ephesians Paul tells us that the Church related to the Mystery is a, 'joint-Body,' (Gr. sussoma), a unique word (Eph.3:6). No such body, where every member is equal in size and importance had ever existed before, either naturally or spiritually. Paul's point concerning these gifts in the Corinthian church is that no one is responsible for the kind of gift he has, so nobody should feel either superior to, or inferior to another, no matter what gift was bestowed upon them.

'So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another' (Romans 12:5), this shows the standing by grace of the Roman church in Christ, so with the Corinthian church: They were a company (body) of believers belonging to Christ (Christ's body); like all the other churches; they were not part of the 'sussoma', the joint-Body of which Christ is the Head. Nothing is said about the Headship of Christ in these Acts epistles. The 'sussoma', the joint-Body of Christ was not revealed till after Israel failed at Acts 28.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Can you give me a reference link please @Complete-is this from Believer.com?
Much appreciated-and I love the camaraderie on this particular thread.
J.

The Bride, the Body and the Church of Christ? - Believer.com

× × Appendix Content × × Toggle Strongs Numbers Bible Verses Loading . . . × × Strongs Dictionary Content

believer.com

The Mysteries In Ephesians, Colossians, And 1 Timothy
There are four epistles that bear the marks of Paul's imprisonment, and two of them deal very fully with the subject of The Mystery. These Epistles are Ephesians and Colossians. Let us note the references to the subject:

"The mystery of His Will" (Eph. 1:9).
"The mystery" (Eph. 3:3).
"The mystery of Christ" (Eph. 3:4).
"The dispensation of the mystery" (Eph. 3:9 R.V.).
"The great mystery" (Eph. 5:32).
"The mystery of the gospel" (Eph. 6:19).
"The mystery" (Col. 1:26).
"The mystery among the Gentiles" (Col. 1:27).
"The mystery of God" (Col. 2:2).
"The mystery of Christ" (Col. 4:3).

The first epistle to Timothy is not a "prison" epistle, but it bears marks of having been written after Paul had been liberated and so describes the newly-formed Church as it was at the beginning. There, we have two more references to the Mystery, which we will add for the sake of completeness:

"The mystery of the faith" (1 Tim. 3:9).
"The mystery of godliness" (1 Tim. 3:16).

This makes a total of twelve references to the subject after Acts twenty-eight, and an examination of these, together with their contexts, should, under God, prove a means of help and blessing in the appreciation of the high and holy calling of the Church of the One Body.
This one?

From the same link provided.

 

[Johann]

Precious friend and brother, thanks for these encouraging words.

I have found the following for our further edification. I can
view it on my ROKU television. But it also on u-tube:

The Dawning Of The Age Of Grace​

Please Be Very Richly Encouraged, Edified, And Comforted
In The Wonderful Truths of our Lord And Saviour Jesus Christ!

Amen.

Just one question-why is there a disagreement between you and @Complete re the ekklesia?

 

[Grace ambassador]

Just one question-why is there a disagreement between you and @Complete re the ekklesia?

Precious brother @Johann, you will probably see the answer after I prayerfully / Carefully study
The Scriptures compared to all of "what she states is Acts 28/or after" 'belief' of "God's Creation
Of The ONE New man [ not 'a bride' ], The Church, The Body Of Christ" [ my position is in Acts 9 ].

Thanks for all your patience...

Good night, rest in God's Sweet Grace And Peace...

 

[Complete]

Can you give me a reference link please @Complete-is this from Believer.com?​

Much appreciated-and I love the camaraderie on this particular thread.​

J.​

'For as the body is one, and hath many members,
and all the members of that one body,
being many, are one body:
so also is Christ.
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body,
whether we be Jews or Gentiles,
whether we be bond or free;
and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.'
(1Co 12:1-132)

Hello @Johann,

I cannot supply you with a link, for although I made reference to a book I have on my shelves on the early epistles of Paul to ensure that what I was saying was right, I have simply addressed the verse (under consideration (1 Corinthians 12:13) within it's context.

https://www.bibleunderstanding.com/Early%20and%20Pastoral%20Epistles%20of%20Paul,%20The.pdf

The Bride, the Body and the Church of Christ? - Believer.com

× × Appendix Content × × Toggle Strongs Numbers Bible Verses Loading . . . × × Strongs Dictionary Content

believer.com

The Mysteries In Ephesians, Colossians, And 1 Timothy​

There are four epistles that bear the marks of Paul's imprisonment, and two of them deal very fully with the subject of The Mystery. These Epistles are Ephesians and Colossians. Let us note the references to the subject:​

​

"The mystery of His Will" (Eph. 1:9).​

"The mystery" (Eph. 3:3).​

"The mystery of Christ" (Eph. 3:4).​

"The dispensation of the mystery" (Eph. 3:9 R.V.).​

"The great mystery" (Eph. 5:32).​

"The mystery of the gospel" (Eph. 6:19).​

"The mystery" (Col. 1:26).​

"The mystery among the Gentiles" (Col. 1:27).​

"The mystery of God" (Col. 2:2).​

"The mystery of Christ" (Col. 4:3).​

​

The first epistle to Timothy is not a "prison" epistle, but it bears marks of having been written after Paul had been liberated and so describes the newly-formed Church as it was at the beginning. There, we have two more references to the Mystery, which we will add for the sake of completeness:​

"The mystery of the faith" (1 Tim. 3:9).​

"The mystery of godliness" (1 Tim. 3:16).​

​

This makes a total of twelve references to the subject after Acts twenty-eight, and an examination of these, together with their contexts, should, under God, prove a means of help and blessing in the appreciation of the high and holy calling of the Church of the One Body.​

This one?​

​

From the same link provided.​

Thank you, Johann
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Johann]

I cannot supply you with a link, for although I made reference to a book I have on my shelves on the early epistles of Paul to ensure that what I was saying was right, I have simply addressed the verse (under consideration (1 Corinthians 12:13) within it's context.

https://www.bibleunderstanding.com/Early and Pastoral Epistles of Paul, The.pdf

Thank you precious @Complete-downloaded it on my computer.
Johann.

 

[Complete]

Thank you precious @Complete-downloaded it on my computer.
Johann.

Hello @Johann,

You will hear differences of understanding expressed concerning the church which is the Body of Christ, but don't let anything phase you, for it is before God that each one of us stands, in Christ Jesus, and it is He who has the last word on all of these thing. You continue to apply the principle of 2 Timothy 2:15, and seek to show yourself approved unto God alone, for we are all learners of Him, aren't we?

We are all in Christ Jesus, and beloved of God. @Grace ambassador, you and I.

Try all things.
Your sister-in-Christ
Chris

 

[Grace ambassador]

Part I Acts 9 Formation of The Body Of Christ

...this knowledge was 'hid in God' (Eph. 3:9) from 'ages' and 'generations' (Col. 1:26). If words mean anything, then these two verses have to be believed, and acknowledgement given, to the fact that the earlier epistles of Paul did not contain anything which concerned the Church which is His Body. Otherwise we have to disregard Ephesians 3:9 and Colossians 1:26 entirely, which we dare not do, for they are God's word.

Hello precious sister Chris, @Complete. Appreciate the Great discussion so far, and:

I agree with: "If words mean anything, then these two verses have to be believed" and, of course, not at all ignoring God's Pure Words In:

"And to make all men see what is The Fellowship Of The Mystery, Which​

from the beginning of the world Hath Been Hid In God, Who created all​

things by Jesus Christ" (Ephesians 3:9)​

+

"Even The Mystery Which Hath Been Hid from ages and from generations,​

but now is made manifest to his saints" (Colossians 1:26)​

Again, no problem acknowledging [ should not argue With ] "What God Hath Said":

I believe that until 'The Mystery' (Eph.3:3 & 6-21) concerning the Body of Christ was revealed to Paul by Divine revelation, it was 'hid in God' (Eph. 1:9) therefore unknowable. It was indeed 'hid from ages and generations' (Col.1:26) therefore not the subject of either the Old Testament Prophets, the gospels, the Acts, the general epistles, or the book of Revelation, nor the epistles of Paul up to that date. Therefore was 'unsearchable' (Eph. 3:8).
Whereas, 'The Mystery of Christ' (Eph.3:3b-5)', was known to ALL the Apostles and Prophets of the New Testament, again by Divine Revelation, including Paul. This mystery was 'searchable', because the subject of the Old Testament Prophets, and the gospels, the Acts, the general epistles, and the epistles of Paul to date.

...however, I will have to disagree with: "The Mystery" and 'The Mystery Of Christ' are Two
different "unsearchable" vs 'searchable' teachings, because of "What Saith The Scriptures?":

"Now to Him That Is Of Power To Stablish you according to my Gospel, and the​

preaching of Jesus Christ, According to The Revelation Of The Mystery, Which was​

Kept Secret since the world began, But Now is made manifest..." (Romans 16:25-26a)​

+

"How that By Revelation He Made Known unto me The Mystery; (as I wrote​

afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge​

in The Mystery Of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons​

of men, as It is now revealed unto His holy apostles and prophets By The Spirit"​

(Ephesians 3:3-5)​

So, yes, agree, "If words mean anything, then these few verses have to be believed"
and studied prayerfully and Carefully for understanding and acknowledgement, yes?

to be continued...

 

[Grace ambassador]

Part II Acts 9 Formation of The Body Of Christ

Yes, still agree, "If words mean anything, then All Scriptures have to be believed"
and studied prayerfully and Carefully for understanding and acknowledgement.
So, Now let us examine:

So there can be nothing contained in Paul's earlier epistles concerning the Church which is the Body of Christ.

Precious sister, it is difficult to see, as discussed In Part I, Paul's Letters being 'split' up
into Two Different groups:

​

a) one { earlier searchable group? } for another different assembly(?), and,​

​

b) another(?) group addressed in the ( later unsearchable group ) for The Body Of Christ.​

Thus, do you believe that Paul then had Two Different ministries? We ask Because of
"What Saith The Scriptures?":

"If ye have heard of The Dispensation of The Grace of God Which Is Given​

me to you-ward" (Ephesians 3:2) New and different from the previous dispensation? *​

+
Only One ministry, that of:

"But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself,​

so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received​

of The Lord Jesus, to testify The Gospel Of The Grace Of God." (Acts 20:24)​

+
Why this?:

"Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance,​

to speak The Mystery Of Christ, for Which I am also in bonds" (Colossians 4:3)​

For preaching the searchable to "The Gentile Body Of Christ"? or:

Isn't he 'in bonds' for "preaching [ his only ministry of the Unsearchable ] Grace
of God," and [ New Revelation? ] 'forsaking' the previous Law of Moses, to the Jews?:

"And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are ​

among the Gentiles [ Baptized By The One Spirit Into The One Joint-Body? ]​

to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children,​

neither to walk after the customs." (Acts 21:21)​

Is it not Biblical to believe that the "pillars of James, Cephas, and John" were preaching
their 'searchable' ministry of prophecy to the Jews, because of the preceding verse?:

"And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest,​

brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are All​

zealous of the law." (Acts 21:20) = In obedience to Christ in Matthew 23:1-3!​

(cp Romans 11:6 Grace Cancels works?)​

+
That Paul had to go up "By Revelation Of Christ," and show these pillars something new that
"they did not yet know" - Please review Galatians 2:1-8, and then:

"And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived The Grace ​

[ Paul's One ministry? ]​

That Was Given Unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship;​

that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision." (v 9)​

+

"Whereof I am made a minister, According to The Dispensation of God Which​

Is Given To me for you, to Fulfil [ Complete! ] The Word Of God" (Colossians 1:25)​

The New Grace Dispensation with One 'ministry' of Paul, Correct?:

Thus, we, in Acts 9, the beginning of the New Dispensation Of Mystery/Grace, and Paul's
[ my ] Gospel, Given By God to him for "all those who would hereafter believe"( #9 ),
see all of Paul's Letters as One cohesive unit with the following Purpose For all in
The Body Of Christ, Then, from his salvation, and Now, until

Great Grace Departure! [ Final 'Now-made-known' doctrine Within
The Mystery for This Current Dispensation of God's Wonderful Grace * ]:

Romans Through Philemon (AV) = God's Grace/Peace Love Letters Directly To us Today, For:
Consolation, Comfort, Edification, Enjoyment, Encouragement, And spiritual Building Up of
All The BLOOD-Washed "members ( saints )" In The Body Of Christ, His Church, Seated In
Heaven! Note: readers should 'start' here [ for Direct application ] first, but remember:

"All Scripture Is Profitable For learning!" [ about God's Other Purpose ] Amen?

This would also 'solve the confusion' some have over this 'phrase' having difficulty of
how "what was unknown" was 'also known in the OT' [ makes no sense ]?:

"Now to Him that is of Power to Stablish you According to my Gospel, and the​

preaching of Jesus Christ, According to The Revelation Of The Mystery, Which​

was Kept Secret since the world began, But Now Is Made Manifest, and​

​

By The Scriptures of the prophets, ​

​

according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to​

all nations for the obedience of faith:" (Romans 16:25-26)​

Our Acts 9 understanding:

Would not that be The Mystery/Grace "prophets" [ Barnabas/others 'long before
Acts 28? ] in the One ministry with Paul, "copying and carrying" Paul's [ cohesive set
of All ] Scriptures everywhere in order to obey the "commandment" to make
This New Message Of Grace

"known to all nations for the obedience of faith"?​

Surely, we can agree?:

Love a good Bible study, don't you?
-----------------
*
@Johann, if you have not seen comparisons yet, they are here, for further edification.

To both of you, thanks much for kind and respectful discussion, diligence and patience.

Let me know if possibly I am missing something From Valuable Scriptures?

And I humbly apologize if I have failed to present Scriptures properly.

Sincerely yours, and Securely His [ Christ's ],
Brother ChrisE

"To God Only Wise, Be Glory Through Jesus Christ For Ever. Amen." (Romans 16:27)

 

[Complete]

Part I Acts 9 Formation of The Body Of Christ

Hello precious sister Chris, @Complete. Appreciate the Great discussion so far, and:

I agree with: "If words mean anything, then these two verses have to be believed" and, of course, not at all ignoring God's Pure Words In:

"And to make all men see what is The Fellowship Of The Mystery, Which​

from the beginning of the world Hath Been Hid In God, Who created all​

things by Jesus Christ" (Ephesians 3:9)​

+

"Even The Mystery Which Hath Been Hid from ages and from generations,​

but now is made manifest to his saints" (Colossians 1:26)​

Again, no problem acknowledging [ should not argue With ] "What God Hath Said":

...however, I will have to disagree with: "The Mystery" and 'The Mystery Of Christ' are Two
different "unsearchable" vs 'searchable' teachings, because of "What Saith The Scriptures?":

"Now to Him That Is Of Power To Stablish you according to my Gospel, and the​

preaching of Jesus Christ, According to The Revelation Of The Mystery, Which was​

Kept Secret since the world began, But Now is made manifest..." (Romans 16:25-26a)​

+

"How that By Revelation He Made Known unto me The Mystery; (as I wrote​

afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge​

in The Mystery Of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons​

of men, as It is now revealed unto His holy apostles and prophets By The Spirit"​

(Ephesians 3:3-5)​

So, yes, agree, "If words mean anything, then these few verses have to be believed"
and studied prayerfully and Carefully for understanding and acknowledgement, yes?

to be continued...

Hello @Grace ambassador,

I have never had to consider the differences of understanding that exist between those who believe that the church which is the body of Christ began at Acts 9, presumably with the conversion of Paul, and those like myself who believe that the church which is the Body of Christ began following the events of Acts 28. So this is all new to me, and I cannot promise to have all the answers.

For me, the epistles written after Acts 28 are those which contain the truth concerning the Body of Christ, on the basis of the words of Paul, in Ephesians 3:9 and Colossians 1:26. The epistle to the Romans being the foundational epistle, containing as it does the truth of our identification with Christ, in His death, burial, quickening, and resurrection: But it is in Ephesians that the truth of our identification with Christ in His ascension to God's right hand is revealed.

* You have referred to Romans 16:25-26a and Ephesians 3:3-5, so I will begin, by God's grace, to consider the the first of these:-

'Now to Him that is of power to stablish you
according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ,
according to the revelation of the mystery,
which was kept secret since the world began,
But now is made manifest,
and by the scriptures of the prophets,
according to the commandment of the everlasting God,
made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.'
(Rom 16:25-27)

The mystery spoken of here is 'The Mystery of Christ', which as your second reference from Ephesians (3:3-5) shows, that though revealed unto His holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit, was not unknown by the apostles and prophets of the Old Testament, simply hid from their understanding. For God tells us, through the Apostle Peter the following:-

'Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently,
who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
Searching what, or what manner of time
the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify,
when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ,
and the glory that should follow.
Unto whom it was revealed,
that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister
the things, which are now reported unto you
by them that have preached the gospel unto you
with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven;
which things the angels desire to look into.'
(1Peter 1:10-12)

* In Romans 16, Paul says:- 'But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, ... ... ' . This again shows that it is 'The Mystery of Christ', which is referred to in Romans 16, and not 'The Mystery', made known exclusively to Paul (Eph. 3): For that was not the subject of the Old Testament Prophets, having been hid 'in God' since the world began.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Wrangler]

Hello @Grace ambassador & @Johann.

Forgive me, but I don't understand the reason for your responses, 'amazing' and 'love': for they do not tell me what you find amazing or what you love. Are you in agreement or disagreement with what I have said? If so, why? If not, why not?

Like my computer, I need input ..... Please.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Welcome Complete. I have not seen your posts before.

@Johann tends to write cryptically even when he writes as though he has authority.