Biblical Differences Between...

[Wrangler]

..Kingdom and Body

@Grace ambassador,

I just want to say I reject the dichotomy you put forth and hold the terms as essentially synonymous.

The "kingdom" is where God's Spirit has dominion. It is occupied by a growing number of saints, living and dead.

 

[Complete]

Welcome Complete. I have not seen your posts before.

@Johann tends to write cryptically even when he writes as though he has authority.

Thank you for your welcome, @Wrangler,

No, we have not had occasion to engage in a discussion together, and I am not familiar with your posts either. Perhaps that will now change.

In Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[Complete]

Part II Acts 9 Formation of The Body Of Christ

Yes, still agree, "If words mean anything, then All Scriptures have to be believed"
and studied prayerfully and Carefully for understanding and acknowledgement.
So, Now let us examine:

Precious sister, it is difficult to see, as discussed In Part I, Paul's Letters being 'split' up
into Two Different groups:

​

a) one { earlier searchable group? } for another different assembly(?), and,​

​

b) another(?) group addressed in the ( later unsearchable group ) for The Body Of Christ.​

Thus, do you believe that Paul then had Two Different ministries? We ask Because of
"What Saith The Scriptures?":

"If ye have heard of The Dispensation of The Grace of God Which Is Given​

me to you-ward" (Ephesians 3:2) New and different from the previous dispensation? *​

+
Only One ministry, that of:

"But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself,​

so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received​

of The Lord Jesus, to testify The Gospel Of The Grace Of God." (Acts 20:24)​

+
Why this?:

"Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance,​

to speak The Mystery Of Christ, for Which I am also in bonds" (Colossians 4:3)​

For preaching the searchable to "The Gentile Body Of Christ"? or:

Isn't he 'in bonds' for "preaching [ his only ministry of the Unsearchable ] Grace
of God," and [ New Revelation? ] 'forsaking' the previous Law of Moses, to the Jews?:

"And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are ​

among the Gentiles [ Baptized By The One Spirit Into The One Joint-Body? ]​

to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children,​

neither to walk after the customs." (Acts 21:21)​

Is it not Biblical to believe that the "pillars of James, Cephas, and John" were preaching
their 'searchable' ministry of prophecy to the Jews, because of the preceding verse?:

"And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest,​

brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are All​

zealous of the law." (Acts 21:20) = In obedience to Christ in Matthew 23:1-3!​

(cp Romans 11:6 Grace Cancels works?)​

+
That Paul had to go up "By Revelation Of Christ," and show these pillars something new that
"they did not yet know" - Please review Galatians 2:1-8, and then:

"And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived The Grace ​

[ Paul's One ministry? ]​

That Was Given Unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship;​

that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision." (v 9)​

+

"Whereof I am made a minister, According to The Dispensation of God Which​

Is Given To me for you, to Fulfil [ Complete! ] The Word Of God" (Colossians 1:25)​

The New Grace Dispensation with One 'ministry' of Paul, Correct?:

Thus, we, in Acts 9, the beginning of the New Dispensation Of Mystery/Grace, and Paul's
[ my ] Gospel, Given By God to him for "all those who would hereafter believe"( #9 ),
see all of Paul's Letters as One cohesive unit with the following Purpose For all in
The Body Of Christ, Then, from his salvation, and Now, until

Great Grace Departure! [ Final 'Now-made-known' doctrine Within
The Mystery for This Current Dispensation of God's Wonderful Grace * ]:

Romans Through Philemon (AV) = God's Grace/Peace Love Letters Directly To us Today, For:
Consolation, Comfort, Edification, Enjoyment, Encouragement, And spiritual Building Up of
All The BLOOD-Washed "members ( saints )" In The Body Of Christ, His Church, Seated In
Heaven! Note: readers should 'start' here [ for Direct application ] first, but remember:

"All Scripture Is Profitable For learning!" [ about God's Other Purpose ] Amen?

This would also 'solve the confusion' some have over this 'phrase' having difficulty of
how "what was unknown" was 'also known in the OT' [ makes no sense ]?:

"Now to Him that is of Power to Stablish you According to my Gospel, and the​

preaching of Jesus Christ, According to The Revelation Of The Mystery, Which​

was Kept Secret since the world began, But Now Is Made Manifest, and​

​

By The Scriptures of the prophets, ​

​

according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to​

all nations for the obedience of faith:" (Romans 16:25-26)​

Our Acts 9 understanding:

Would not that be The Mystery/Grace "prophets" [ Barnabas/others 'long before
Acts 28? ] in the One ministry with Paul, "copying and carrying" Paul's [ cohesive set
of All ] Scriptures everywhere in order to obey the "commandment" to make
This New Message Of Grace

"known to all nations for the obedience of faith"?​

Surely, we can agree?:

Love a good Bible study, don't you?
-----------------
*
@Johann, if you have not seen comparisons yet, they are here, for further edification.

To both of you, thanks much for kind and respectful discussion, diligence and patience.

Let me know if possibly I am missing something From Valuable Scriptures?

And I humbly apologize if I have failed to present Scriptures properly.

Sincerely yours, and Securely His [ Christ's ],
Brother ChrisE

Hello @Grace ambassador,

I have tried to respond on three occasions to this post of yours, only to be interrupted: and now am too tired to do it justice, so I just wish to acknowledge it now, with the commitment to respond as soon as possible.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Grace ambassador]

I have never had to consider the differences of understanding that exist between those who believe that the church which is the body of Christ began at Acts 9, presumably with the conversion of Paul, and those like myself who believe that the church which is the Body of Christ began following the events of Acts 28. So this is all new to me, and I cannot promise to have all the answers.

Precious sister, appreciate your kind and humble discussion. I know there is Much More
to learn for further understanding:

"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into​

the heart of man, the things which God Hath Prepared for them that love Him.​

But God Hath Revealed Them Unto us By His Spirit: for The Spirit Searcheth All​

Things, Yea, The Deep Things Of God." (1Co 2:9-10)​

Hello @Grace ambassador,

I have tried to respond on three occasions to this post of yours, only to be interrupted: and now am too tired to do it justice, so I just wish to acknowledge it now, with the commitment to respond as soon as possible.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Looking forward to more great discussion...

Please Be Encouraged And Edified In Christ.

 

[Complete]

Hello @Grace ambassador,

Did you read my response to reply#37, in reply#39? Thank you for your loving responses: For it is lowliness, meekness, lovingkindness and forbearing one another in love, which is indicative of a worthy walk, isn't it?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Grace ambassador]

Hello @Grace ambassador,

Did you read my response to reply#37, in reply#39?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Yes, thanks for the very good input. Still awaiting your further input on reply#38 so that I don't
miss anything Valuable from 'one cohesive unit' of information.

Be Blessed.

ChrisE

 

[Complete]

Part II Acts 9 Formation of The Body Of Christ

Yes, still agree, "If words mean anything, then All Scriptures have to be believed"
and studied prayerfully and Carefully for understanding and acknowledgement.
So, Now let us examine:

Precious sister, it is difficult to see, as discussed In Part I, Paul's Letters being 'split' up
into Two Different groups:

​

a) one { earlier searchable group? } for another different assembly(?), and,​

​

b) another(?) group addressed in the ( later unsearchable group ) for The Body Of Christ.​

Thus, do you believe that Paul then had Two Different ministries? We ask Because of
"What Saith The Scriptures?":

"If ye have heard of The Dispensation of The Grace of God Which Is Given​

me to you-ward" (Ephesians 3:2) New and different from the previous dispensation?​

Hello @Grace ambassador,

I believe that all Scripture is 'for' us, but not all is 'about' us. So, regardless of the fact that the truth concerning the church which is the Body of Christ was made known following Acts 28, in the epistles written by Paul from prison, by Divine revelation, namely, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon: The whole of what is written is for our learning.

Searchable (Acts 17:11) - (1 Corinthians 9:17 - dispensation)
1 Thessalonians was written in AD 52 from Corinth
2 Thessalonians .. .. .. AD 53 .. ..
1 Corinthians .. .. .. AD 57 from Ephesus (in springtime)
2 Corinthians .. .. .. AD 57 .. .. (in autumn)
Galatians .. .. .. AD 57 from Corinth (in winter)
Romans .. .. .. AD 58 .. ..

Acts 28:25-26 (AD 62)

Unsearchable (Eph. 3:9; Col. 1:26) - (Eph. 3:2 & Col. 1:25 - dispensation)
Ephesians AD 62 spring - From Prison in Rome
Colossians .. 62 .. - .. .. .. ..
Philippians .. 62 autumn - .. .. .. ..
1 Timothy .. 67 From Corinth
Titus .. 67 ,, ,,
2 Timothy .. 68 From Prison in Rome

Only One ministry, that of:

"But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself,​

so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received​

of The Lord Jesus, to testify The Gospel Of The Grace Of God." (Acts 20:24)​

* In Acts 20 Paul was speaking to the Ephesian elders, who had come to meet with him on his way to Jerusalem. To whom he says that he had expounded to them, 'all the counsel of God' that he himself had received (v.27). We are not kept in the dark as to what that comprised, for he tells us in verses, (vv. 21, 25), which I will quote:- 'Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.' (Act 20:21); 'And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.' (Act 20:25) . Do you see the truth of 'The Mystery' concerning the Body of Christ listed here? No! So Paul himself had not received it: Otherwise he could not have said, in (Acts 20:26-27) - 'Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.'
To Agrippa he declared, '... and so I stand here and testify to small and great alike. I am saying nothing beyond what the prophets and Moses said would happen - that the Christ would suffer, and, as the first to rise from the dead, would proclaim light to His own people and to the Gentiles' (Acts 26:22-23). In other words, Paul kept his doctrine to the earthly kingdom spoken of 'by all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after '. (Acts 3:24)

* Though the Holy Spirit told him that bonds and afflictions awaited Him, Paul could say, by God's grace:- 'But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.' (Act 20:24).

* What Paul made known, during the Acts, was 'The Mystery of Christ' for which he was in bonds (Colossians 4:3). The mystery that was searchable, because also the subject of the Old Testament Prophets, and revealed not only to Paul, but to all the apostles and prophets of the New Testament.

This is as far as I can go at this present moment. I hope I have made sense.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Complete]

For preaching the searchable to "The Gentile Body Of Christ"? or:​

​

Isn't he 'in bonds' for "preaching [ his only ministry of the Unsearchable ] Grace​

of God," and [ New Revelation? ] 'forsaking' the previous Law of Moses, to the Jews?:​

​

"And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are ​

among the Gentiles [ Baptized By The One Spirit Into The One Joint-Body? ]​

to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children,​

neither to walk after the customs." (Acts 21:21)​

Hello again, @Grace ambassador,

Paul is in bonds, as he himself affirms, for preaching 'The Mystery of Christ', which was 'searchable' because the subject of the Old Testament Scriptures, as the Bereans of Acts 17 proved, who, 'searched the Scriptures daily,' to see if the truths they had heard from Paul were so.

Is it not Biblical to believe that the "pillars of James, Cephas, and John" were preaching​

their 'searchable' ministry of prophecy to the Jews, because of the preceding verse?:​

​

"And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest,​

brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are All​

zealous of the law." (Acts 21:20) = In obedience to Christ in Matthew 23:1-3!​

(cp Romans 11:6 Grace Cancels works?)​

+​

That Paul had to go up "By Revelation Of Christ," and show these pillars something new that​

"they did not yet know" - Please review Galatians 2:1-8, and then:​

​

"And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived The Grace ​

[ Paul's One ministry? ]​

That Was Given Unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship;​

that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision." (v 9)​

* Yes, Paul went up by revelation to Jerusalem to acquaint the Jerusalem council, of the gospel that he preached, by revelation from above.

"Whereof I am made a minister, According to The Dispensation of God Which​

Is Given To me for you, to Fulfil [ Complete! ] The Word Of God" (Colossians 1:25)​

The New Grace Dispensation with One 'ministry' of Paul, Correct?:

* The dispensation of Grace began with the final rejection by Israel, through the Jews of the diaspora at Acts 28:25-27, of the Lord Jesus Christ, as their Messiah and King, and will end with 'the day of the Lord.'

Thus, we, in Acts 9, the beginning of the New Dispensation Of Mystery/Grace, and Paul's​

[ my ] Gospel, Given By God to him for "all those who would hereafter believe"( #9 ),​

see all of Paul's Letters as One cohesive unit with the following Purpose For all in​

The Body Of Christ, Then, from his salvation, and Now, until​

* The Mystery of Christ encompasses all that the Scripture says concerning Him, in the Old Testament Scriptures, both in type/shadow and Prophecy, continuing on throughout His life, His ministry, death, resurrection and ascension to God's right hand.

Great Grace Departure! [ Final 'Now-made-known' doctrine Within ​

The Mystery for This Current Dispensation of God's Wonderful Grace * ]:​

​

Romans Through Philemon (AV) = God's Grace/Peace Love Letters Directly To us Today, For:​

Consolation, Comfort, Edification, Enjoyment, Encouragement, And spiritual Building Up of​

All The BLOOD-Washed "members ( saints )" In The Body Of Christ, His Church, Seated In​

Heaven! Note: readers should 'start' here [ for Direct application ] first, but remember:​

"All Scripture Is Profitable For learning!" [ about God's Other Purpose ] Amen?​

​

This would also 'solve the confusion' some have over this 'phrase' having difficulty of​

how "what was unknown" was 'also known in the OT' [ makes no sense ]?:​

​

"Now to Him that is of Power to Stablish you According to my Gospel, and the​

preaching of Jesus Christ, According to The Revelation Of The Mystery, Which​

was Kept Secret since the world began, But Now Is Made Manifest, and​

By The Scriptures of the prophets, ​

​

according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to​

all nations for the obedience of faith:" (Romans 16:25-26)​

​

Our Acts 9 understanding:​

​

Would not that be The Mystery/Grace "prophets" [ Barnabas/others 'long before ​

Acts 28? ] in the One ministry with Paul, "copying and carrying" Paul's [ cohesive set​

of All ] Scriptures everywhere in order to obey the "commandment" to make​

This New Message Of Grace​

​

"known to all nations for the obedience of faith"?​

​

Surely, we can agree?:​

​

Love a good Bible study, don't you? ​

-----------------​

*​

@Johann, if you have not seen comparisons yet, they are here, for further edification.​

To both of you, thanks much for kind and respectful discussion, diligence and patience.​

Let me know if possibly I am missing something From Valuable Scriptures?​

And I humbly apologize if I have failed to present Scriptures properly.​

​

Sincerely yours, and Securely His [ Christ's ],​

Brother ChrisE​

​

"To God Only Wise, Be Glory Through Jesus Christ For Ever. Amen." (Romans 16:27)​

* These things were addressed previously, I believe.

Thank you,
Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[Complete]

'And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery,
which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God,
who created all things by Jesus Christ:
To the intent that now
.. unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places
.... might be known
...... by the church
........ the manifold wisdom of God,
According to the eternal purpose which He purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:'
(Eph 3:9-11)

 

[Complete]

'For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts,
we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Looking for that blessed hope,
and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from all iniquity,
and purify unto Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.'
(Tit 2:11-14)

Hello @Grace ambassador & @Johann,

Lying in bed last night, thinking of what I had said in my reply to you, I realised that I had neglect to consider this present interval in the purpose of God, and the gospel of the glory of Christ, which was delivered to Paul, in the revelation of 'The Mystery' of Ephesians 3. That glorious gospel of the ascended Christ, who ever lives to intercede for us before the Father. God has reckoned us to be in Him, Holy and without blame, accepted in the Beloved, complete in Him, God's own adopted sons through Christ Jesus our Lord.

Having reckoned us to have died with Christ, been buried, quickened and raised with Him, we are also ascended with Him to God's right hand in the heavenly places, where we walk in newness of life before the Father, in spirit. There, in Christ, lie all out spiritual blessings. and all that we now await is His appearing in glory, when we too shall appear with Him there.

Christ is the Head of the Body, it is He that nourishes us, and gives His Body increase, by invisible joints and bands, that unite and bind us together with cords of love. We may not know each other, or ever see each other, but we are one body, in Christ, precious and beloved of the Father. We have the hope of being the recipients of His loving-kindness throughout eternity, by Christ Jesus, world without end. Amen

Praise God!

In His Holy Name
Chris

 

[Johann]

Hello @Grace ambassador,

Lying in bed last night, thinking of what I had said in my reply to you, I realised that I had neglect to consider this present interval in the purpose of God, and the gospel of the glory of Christ, which was delivered to Paul, in the revelation of 'The Mystery' of Ephesians 3. That glorious gospel of the ascended Christ, who ever lives to intercede for us before the Father. God has reckoned us to be in Him, Holy and without blame, accepted in the Beloved, complete in Him, God's own adopted sons through Christ Jesus our Lord.

Having reckoned us to have died with Christ, been buried, quickened and raised with Him, we are also ascended with Him to God's right hand in the heavenly places, where we walk in newness of life before the Father, in spirit. There, in Christ, lie all out spiritual blessings. and all that we now await is His appearing in glory, when we too shall appear with Him there.

Christ is the Head of the Body, it is He that nourishes us, and gives His Body increase, by invisible joints and bands, that unite and bind us together with cords of love. We may not know each other, or ever see each other, but we are one body, in Christ, precious and beloved of the Father. We have the hope of being the recipients of His loving-kindness throughout eternity, by Christ Jesus, world without end. Amen

Praise God!

In His Holy Name
Chris

Hi precious @Complete-is there a difference between Berean Bible Society and Grace Ambassadors/Believer.com teachings? If so-what?

I concur to your post to @Grace ambassador.

Yours in Christ Jesus.
Johann.

 

[Complete]

'Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ,
let us go on unto perfection;
not laying again the foundation
of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands,
and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
And this will we do, if God permit.'
(Heb 6:1-3)

Hello @Johann,

I am not acquainted with the teaching of either, not having visited either site , so I can't comment upon them.

God brought me into the knowledge of Himself at the age of twelve, with the knowledge of my need of a Saviour, and the acknowledgement of God's provision of a Saviour, in the person of His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, who died for my sin, and rose again, thereby providing the means whereby my sins could be forgiven, and I could receive the gift of life, through believing on His Name, and all that His name implies.

When in my early thirties, married with two children, I heard a message delivered on Hebrews 6, about the necessity to go on unto perfection, and I was eager to do so. Yet felt constrained. Looking at the text (above) I saw the words, 'if God permit' , and realised that I must wait on God's timing. All that was necessary was that I had the desire, He would do the rest.

The speaker was a dispensationalist, from the chapel of the opened book in London. It is a charity, publishing and making available the books of Charles Welch, Stewart Allen, and Dr Bullinger etc.,. They also had audio tapes which could be purchased or borrowed, which I started listening to, and reading, with my Bible Open. I used to await the delivery of the next batch of studies eagerly, and couldn't wait to see what the Lord had in store for me next. It was a great time of discovery, and of joy in believing.

The Lord brought me out of the denomination I was attending, and I have to this day remained alone (doctrinally), except for the people that God has brought my way, for He has never left me without at least one person with whom I have been able to have fellowship. His purpose is that I should know Him, and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, but the righteousness which is of Him by faith. And to go on into Him in all things, by personal study of the word, and communion with Him. Looking for His appearing, when I too, expect to appear with Him, along with all the members of the Body of Christ in glory.

We are His workmanship aren't we Johann?

Praise His Holy Name!

Thank you for listening.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Audios/Videos – BibleUnderstanding Ministry

 

[Johann]

'Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ,
let us go on unto perfection;
not laying again the foundation
of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands,
and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
And this will we do, if God permit.'
(Heb 6:1-3)

Hello @Johann,

I am not acquainted with the teaching of either, not having visited either site , so I can't comment upon them.

God brought me into the knowledge of Himself at the age of twelve, with the knowledge of my need of a Saviour, and the acknowledgement of God's provision of a Saviour, in the person of His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, who died for my sin, and rose again, thereby providing the means whereby my sins could be forgiven, and I could receive the gift of life, through believing on His Name, and all that His name implies.

When in my early thirties, married with two children, I heard a message delivered on Hebrews 6, about the necessity to go on unto perfection, and I was eager to do so. Yet felt constrained. Looking at the text (above) I saw the words, 'if God permit' , and realised that I must wait on God's timing. All that was necessary was that I had the desire, He would do the rest.

The speaker was a dispensationalist, from the chapel of the opened book in London. It is a charity, publishing and making available the books of Charles Welch, Stewart Allen, and Dr Bullinger etc.,. They also had audio tapes which could be purchased or borrowed, which I started listening to, and reading, with my Bible Open. I used to await the delivery of the next batch of studies eagerly, and couldn't wait to see what the Lord had in store for me next. It was a great time of discovery, and of joy in believing.

The Lord brought me out of the denomination I was attending, and I have to this day remained alone (doctrinally), except for the people that God has brought my way, for He has never left me without at least one person with whom I have been able to have fellowship. His purpose is that I should know Him, and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, but the righteousness which is of Him by faith. And to go on into Him in all things, by personal study of the word, and communion with Him. Looking for His appearing, when I too, expect to appear with Him, along with all the members of the Body of Christ in glory.

We are His workmanship aren't we Johann?

Praise His Holy Name!

Thank you for listening.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Amazing-full on dunamis/Kratos powerful testimony precious @Complete!

And like you-I remain alone [reclusive] not by choice but doctrinally.
Praise our Lord Jesus Christ for you and @Grace ambassador -and yes, we ARE His workmanship.
Thank you for sharing with me-your fellow brother in Christ Jesus.
Johann.

 

[Grace ambassador]

Hello @Grace ambassador,

I have tried to respond on three occasions to this post of yours, only to be interrupted: and now am too tired to do it justice, so I just wish to acknowledge it now, with the commitment to respond as soon as possible.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hello sister, I, like you, wish to do justice in a clear and concise manner when I post, so this is
my own acknowledgement that I am not ignoring anything you have kindly shared [thanks!],
but with several 'difficulties' I am having, that it may take me some time * to prayerfully/carefully
re-review the Scriptural meaning [ or multiple meanings? ] of "The Mystery" and the
associated 'mysteries' of Paul, for the One Body Of Christ.

When accomplished I will publish my own findings of This Very Important Matter Of God.

* Hopefully Before our (entire Body Of Christ) Great Grace Departure!

Meantime please Be Very Richly Encouraged in your own prayerful/careful study of
God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided.

tag precious brothers In Christ: @civic, @Johann

Brother ChrisE

 

[Complete]

Hello @Grace ambassador, and @Johann,

Thank you for such an interesting discussion, it has been a joy.

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head.
Now risen and glorified
and sat at God's right hand,
and we in Him, in spirit
by the reckoning of God.

Praise His Holy Name!
For His amazing plan and purpose
of which He has chosen to make us a part.
Isn't it just wonderful!!
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Complete]

@Grace ambassador,

I just want to say I reject the dichotomy you put forth and hold the terms as essentially synonymous.

The "kingdom" is where God's Spirit has dominion. It is occupied by a growing number of saints, living and dead.

Hello @Wrangler,

You addressed the above response to @Grace ambassador, in relation to the terms 'Kingdom' and 'Body', but I would like to just consider this with you if you don't mind. You have said that you believe that the two terms are synonymous, and you are not alone in thinking that: but we are told to try the things that differ, and to rightly divide the word of truth, so lets do that now, in regard to these two terms.

* You will agree, I'm sure, that 'The Kingdom of God' refers to the sovereignty of God, which is moral and universal. It existed from the beginning and will know no end. it is over all, and embraces all. Yes?

* In Scripture, the word 'Kingdom' is used with different combinations, and contexts, and each has it's own particular sense, and must not be confused with another.

'The Kingdom of Heaven' (used in Matthew's gospel) is used sometimes of the Messiah's kingdom on earth, and sometimes of the heavenly sovereignty over the earth.

'The Kingdom of the Father' (Matt. 13:43) is not universal, but has regard to relationship, and to 'a heavenly calling' (Heb. 3:1), and the heavenly sphere of the kingdom, in it's relation to the earthly.

'The Kingdom of the Son of man' (Matt. 16:28) this aspect of, 'the kingdom of heaven,' has relation to Israel on earth, as distinct from the 'sons', who, as partakers of 'a heavenly calling' (Heb.3:1) will possess the heavenly sphere as sons of the resurrection (Luke 20:34-36).

'The Kingdom of His dear Son' (Col. 1:13) used in regard to quite another sphere, far above all heavens, and refers to the sovereignty of the Son, as made the 'Head' over all things to His church, which is His body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all (Eph. 1:10, 20-23).

The Everlasting Kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ' (2 Pet. 1:11) which relates to His sovereignty in millennial glory.

The Kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ' (or Messiah) (Rev. 11:15) this refers to the millennial manifestation of both, 'The Kingdom of the Father,' and, 'The Kingdom of the Son of man', by Divine power, and in glory.

* I believe that in looking at the usage of the word Kingdom (above), we have no need to look at the usage of the other term (Body/Church) to see that they are not synonymous terms.

The Kingdon and the Church - Appendix to the Companion Bible

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Grace ambassador]

I have never had to consider the differences of understanding that exist between those who believe that the church which is the body of Christ began at Acts 9, presumably with the conversion of Paul

Precious @Complete, I am still re-reviewing the unknown {gr. musterion secret/hidden} 'mystery'
Passages for development into a "justifiable answer" for consideration, but presently we would
like to ask this learning favor from you:

Could you please summarize for us your Valuable thoughts on "God's Dealings" with Israel from
Pentecost (where Acts 2 dispensationalists believe "The Body Of Christ" was created) up until the
the stumble/or fall [Acts 7]? of Israel's leaders before God [and Why? He] Saved Paul in Acts 9.

This may help us see better about the other 2 [presumed?] positions of Acts 9 and post-Acts 28
for formation of The Body Of Christ. Whenever you can find a few moments; looking forward
to more Great, kind and respectful dialogue with such a wonderful sister In The Lord.

We appreciate you


Brother ChrisE

 

[Complete]

Hello @Grace ambassador and @Johann,

I must apologise to you both, for I realise that I have told an untruth. Johann asked me if I was in agreement with anything in either Berean Bible Society and Grace Ambassadors/Believer.com (reply#51), and I said that I had not visited either of them. Now I realise that I have in fact visited both.

For, in the effort of responding at the time, my mind being so on the subject in hand, I did not even identify in my mind that the links being enquired of, were in fact those supplied on the forum: and at the time of visiting both I had no idea that they were mid-Acts studies, not having ever read any mid-Acts content before.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Wrangler]

You have said that you believe that the two terms are synonymous, and you are not alone in thinking that: but we are told to try the things that differ, and to rightly divide the word of truth, so lets do that now, in regard to these two terms.

Done and done.

Do you notice the word "essentially" in what I wrote?

I just want to say I reject the dichotomy you put forth and hold the terms as essentially synonymous.

The "kingdom" is where God's Spirit has dominion. It is occupied by a growing number of saints, living and dead.

I then went on to define how these terms are related and the small way in which they are different.

Consider the difference between a revolutionary war from a civil war. Consider the "Russian Revolution of 1917" and the "American Civil War" were both misnamed. Russia was a civil war where the head of State was deposed.

America's 2nd Revolutionary War was NOT a civil war because if the Confederacy won, Abraham Lincoln would still be President over the USA, albeit the USA would just have been geographically similar. This is exactly the way it was in America's 1st Revolutionary War, where King George III remained King of England. And again, this was true even though England lost the war.

Now, I've held my ground. You claim these terms are not essentially similar but have not explained how so.

 

[Complete]

Precious @Complete, I am still re-reviewing the unknown {gr. musterion secret/hidden} 'mystery'
Passages for development into a "justifiable answer" for consideration, but presently we would
like to ask this learning favor from you:

Could you please summarize for us your Valuable thoughts on "God's Dealings" with Israel from
Pentecost (where Acts 2 dispensationalists believe "The Body Of Christ" was created) up until the
the stumble/or fall [Acts 7]? of Israel's leaders before God [and Why? He] Saved Paul in Acts 9.

This may help us see better about the other 2 [presumed?] positions of Acts 9 and post-Acts 28
(Act 3:19) Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
(Act 3:20) And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
(Act 3:21) Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

for formation of The Body Of Christ. Whenever you can find a few moments; looking forward
to more Great, kind and respectful dialogue with such a wonderful sister In The Lord.

We appreciate you

'Repent ye therefore, and be converted,
that your sins may be blotted out,
when the times of refreshing shall come
from the presence of the Lord;
And He shall send Jesus Christ,
Which before was preached unto you:
Whom the heaven must receive
until the times of restitution of all things,
which God hath spoken
by the mouth of all His holy prophets
since the world began.'
(Act 3:19-20)

Hello @Grace ambassador,

Peter stood up and spoke to the men of Israel (above), telling them that if they repented God would send the Lord Jesus Christ to them. During the whole period of approx. 40 years covered by the book of The Acts of the Apostles, this was what was sought by God from Israel:- Repentance. The twelve were sent out with that goal in mind, and so was Paul initially. In the epistles written during that period, it was the return of Christ that was the expectation of all believers.

The repentance of Israel was vital for God's purposes for Israel to be fully achieved. For they would then have become priests unto God among the nations, and all that was written in the prophets would have come to pass for them. Cornelius, and the gentiles subsequently, were brought into the kingdom with the view to making Israel Jealous in the hope that Israel would emulate them. and their repentance gained.

A believing remnant were saved, but the nation finally departed into the blindness of unbelief at Acts 28, and in AD70 destruction came upon the land and the temple was destroyed.

Paul had begun the work the risen Lord had called him to, among the gentiles, and following the events of Acts 28, when salvation was sent to the Gentiles, independent of Israel, the revelation of God concerning the Body of Christ was given to Paul, while in prison at Rome, and made known, bringing in believing Jews and Gentiles into the church which is His Body. Yet we know, from Paul himself, that many failed to believe His message (2 Timothy 1:15).

God has told us, through Paul, that one day all Israel will be saved: they will see the returning Christ, with the marks of the crucifixion visible, and will recognise what they have done, repent and mourn for Him, and the process longed for, for so long, will come to fruition. The prophecies concerning them will be fulfilled, for God is faithful.

This is sketchy at best, and I have probably missed out many vital elements, but this is what has come to mind at this moment in time.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris