"Are The Twelve apostles...
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101G
Well-known member
It is amazing how Christians today has no hindsight. even the apostle Peter almost got .... "BROKEN OFF", until God had to convince him that the Gentiles are clean as they. and even after that he withdrew from eating with Gentiles while eating.... because some of the ..... "Boyz from the hood" (smile), where he was from showed up. and the apostle Paul had to admonish him.
yes, many Jews accepted the call of the Messiah , and "BELIEVED" and took the message of the risen saviour to the world but in crunch time they still wanted gentile to be circumcise and Oh yes, keep the ten commandments. and there was a council meeting on these and other subjects. and many because of their old way, prohibit the TRUE GOSPEL, and was broken off.
this OLIVE TREE, the TRUE VINE, Oh yes is the HOUSEHOLD of GOD People. for in Christ Jesus, there is Neither Jew or Greek/Gentile. nor male or Female..... BINGO.
101G.
yes, many Jews accepted the call of the Messiah , and "BELIEVED" and took the message of the risen saviour to the world but in crunch time they still wanted gentile to be circumcise and Oh yes, keep the ten commandments. and there was a council meeting on these and other subjects. and many because of their old way, prohibit the TRUE GOSPEL, and was broken off.
this OLIVE TREE, the TRUE VINE, Oh yes is the HOUSEHOLD of GOD People. for in Christ Jesus, there is Neither Jew or Greek/Gentile. nor male or Female..... BINGO.
101G.
civic
Well-known member
You are confusing the church with national Israel. You are conflating the unsaved Jews/ Israel with the saved Jews in the church.
hope this helps !!!
101G
Well-known member
do you even KNOW what a OLIVE TREE represent? answer, the olive branch represented new life sprouting on the earth, a new beginning for humanity, peace and reconciliation with God, renewal, and revival as in Genesis 8:11 when the dove brought Peace and reconciliation between God and Man in her moth.... an OLIVE BRANCH.
AM I confusing the church with National Israel well, lets check the record. Ephesians 2:10 "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." (READ THAT AGAIN), Ephesians 2:11 "Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;" Ephesians 2:12 "That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:" Ephesians 2:13 "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ." Ephesians 2:14 "For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;" (BINGO), Ephesians 2:15 "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;" Ephesians 2:16 "And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:" Ephesians 2:17 "And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh." (READ THAT AGAIN), Ephesians 2:18 "For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father." Ephesians 2:19 "Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;" (THERE'S THAT OLIVE TREE), Ephesians 2:20 "And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;" Ephesians 2:21 "In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:" Ephesians 2:22 "In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit."
see, Olive TREE symbolize peace and reconciliation. which Christ did on the Cross. and in HIM, (the Olive TREE), there is no Jew, or Gentile..... read Ephesians 2 again.
OUCH !. 101G.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
There you go shouting again.
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
That I will make a new covenant
With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer31:31.
The House of Israel are the TEN NORTHERN TRIBES.
The House of Judah is the TWO SOUTHERN TRIBES.
I count twelve tribes.
Case Closed.
All that verbiage.Natural Israel is NOT, again, is NOT Spiritual Israel, LISTEN and LEARN, you want to know about your seed of Abraham according to the FLESH. Romans 9:5 "Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen." Romans 9:6 "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:" (READ THAT AGAIN). Romans 9:7 "Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called." Romans 9:8 "That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." SO YOUR FLESH OF ABRAHAM MEANS NOTHING.
THE PROMISE? YES, the HOLY SPIRIT, which was only Given at Pentecost for all PEOPLE, not just for Israel ONLY. now let's see who the HOLY SPIRIT For. Acts 2:39 "For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."
question, is God still calling all people unto himself? YES, even as we speak, if one is still in there sins there are not on the TREE. Amen.....
there are no fleshly Israel on the tree. not under the NEW Covenant.... again, the Olive Tree is Spiritual, Israel was never Spiritual.
now think, if fleshly Israel was in God as Branches, and (SIN) was still present, are you saying God was a part of Sin, or accept sin? no, when sin was removed, that's when Romans 9:8 is in effect. "That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." so who of ISRAEL was on the TREE? let's go back to Roman 9 ... and finish up. Romans 9:9 "For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son." Romans 9:10 "And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;" Romans 9:11 "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
NOT OF WORKS, was not sacrifices a work of the LAW? ..... (smile)....lol, lol, lol, OH dear. ..... what did God say? but of him that calleth BINGO. understand something, in Christ Jesus there is Neither Jew nor Greek/Gentile, HELLO. God is not JEWISH. Hello again. so try again.
LISTEN and LEARN, you say you know Romans 11, well you missed this. Romans 11:17 "And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;" ONE MORE Romans 11:24 "For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?"
not lets put an end to the Olives ... Tree(s)....... lol, LISTEN,
Ephesians 2:12 "That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:" Ephesians 2:13 "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ." Ephesians 2:14 "For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;" Ephesians 2:15 "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;" (READ THAT AGAIN). Ephesians 2:16 "And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:" Ephesians 2:17 "And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh." (BOTH JEWS AND GENTILES) Ephesians 2:18 "For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father." Ephesians 2:19 "Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;" Ephesians 2:20 "And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;" Ephesians 2:21 "In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:" (THERE IS THAT TREE) Ephesians 2:22 "In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit."
101G.
Natural Israel through Abraham has covenant in which this covenant lays the groundwork for the Mosaic Covenant which lays the groundwork for a New Covenant WITH NATURAL ISRAEL the promises of SPIRITUAL blessings in the form of the Holy Spirit. HE IS THE LAW God promised to put in the inward parts of natural Israel to make them spiritual Israel.
And this He did when God saved through the Holy Spirit of Promise and 3000 JEWS were born-again and spiritual Israel began. And that was only ONE DAY. Acts 2:47 says Christ ADDED to the Church of Israel DAILY such as should be saved. Taking 3000 as a median number Christ by weeks end saved through the born-again experience about 21,000 Natural Israeli Jews into SPIRITUAL Israeli Jews.
In one month, all around Israel and Jerusalem, Samaria, Judaea, and the utter parts of the world Jews were being saved left and right as Christ ADDED to His Church daily such as should be saved. In one month that comes to 3000 in one day multiplied by 7 (one week) multiplied by 4 (four weeks) = 88,000 born again Jews in ONE MONTH!! This went on for four decades until their Temple was destroyed and the "ism" of Judaism ended. This left about 84,000 born again Jews a month times 12 months = 1,008,00 times 40 years = 40,320,000 born again Jews until the destruction of their Temple.
When Christ promised natural Israel He was going to build His Church full of spiritual Israel He does not mess around!
Hot Dang!
Masel Tov!
LOL
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
On the Day of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit baptized into the Body of Christ 3000 Jews in that one day. Now Israel has become spiritual Israel as per New Covenant benefits.
Taking Acts 2:47 which says, "and the Lord ADDED to the Church (which was founded and populated by born-again Jews) daily such as should be saved" and taking 3000 Jews born-again as a median number then by weeks end 21,000 Jews were born-again and added to the Jewish Church. If this is accurate then at the end of the month 84,000 Jews were added to the Church Christ was building in one month. This went on for four decades until the destruction of their Temple and in which the "ism" of Judaism effectively ended and God very soon after began to save hard-core, uncircumcised, non-covenant Gentiles. This does not mean Gentiles are added to the Jewish Church because there is no covenant that exists that directs or describes Gentiles joining or being included in the Jewish Church anywhere in the Law, Psalms, and Prophets. It is a Jewish Covenant and Jews are the recipients of this covenant - not Gentiles for Gentiles are not named nor described in any covenant God has made with Abraham and later the children of Israel (Mosaic) or the New Covenant made with the House of Israel (and Judah.)
However, "Church" when referenced of Gentiles is correct for Gentiles are also "called out" ('ekklesia") and baptized into the Body of Christ (as I understand the history in light of the covenants, or should I say, lack of covenant with God.)
In four decades of New Covenant Jewish Church activity there could have been 40,325,000 Jews born-again in total including Jews in Gentile lands for Isaiah said only a remnant returned to the Promised Land leaving the MAJORITY remaining in Gentile lands and scattered among Gentiles.
As a result of Jews from Gentile lands being at the Feast of Harvest (Pentecost) when the Holy Spirit was "poured out" and using the tongues the disciples spoke as indicative of the Gentile locations these Hellenized Jews hailed from and returning home and to their synagogues, as well as other Jews being born-again as a result of their testimony/witness of their experience of a Holy Spirit, an outline of Peter's sermon, these Jews took Messiah Jesus with them and more Jews became saved. Add to that the eventual split between these Jewish Christians and their Judaic synagogue brethren, Jewish Christians began to hold fellowship in their homes and worship God and His Christ/Messiah until persecution caused many Jewish Christians to scatter even further among Gentiles - even considering returning to the Judaic religion to escape persecution (which was harsh) as the writer of Hebrew and James point out and discuss, but the writer of Hebrews (chap. 6) says it is "impossible" to return to Judaism and drink the old wine.
The result of the events that happened in Jerusalem at Pentecost is that for the next four decades until the Temple was destroyed and as per covenant, Christ was building His Church and His Church - again, as per covenant - was populated by Jewish Christians and most assuredly with Gentile proselytes (and even God-Fearers as Cornelius), those closest to Israel and Judaism. Unless the context makes it known or implied any mention of Gentile would have to apply to proselytes and God Fearers since they would have accessed any Jewish Christian who witnessed in their synagogues the magnificent works of God.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Make distinction. Cornelius was a God-Fearer and one-cut short of being a full-fledged proselyte with all the benefits of the Abrahamic/Mosaic Covenants given to Israel.
Cornelius was devout meaning he was deeply involved in Judaism without being circumcised. It certainly would not refer to his being a devout Gentile idol-worshiper, right?
On another note, the "other flock" Jesus mentioned in John 10 are not Gentiles, but Samaritans. It matters not that these offspring were half, quarter, one-eighth Jews, if the was Hebrew/Jewish blood in their veins or DNA they were also covenant.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Cornelius was a devout God Fearer which were one-cut short of being proselyte. He was a serious ally to the Jewish cause. Why shouldn't God save those that "blessed them that blessed you"?
It was only a handful of uncircumcised Gentiles.
Saul was addressing Jewish Christians who were concerned with their standing in the Abrahamic Covenant. THAT'S the context of Saul's words in Gal. 3:28-29.
Everything that was happening in Israel and to the Jews was NEW covenant events and it took time to search the Hebrew Scriptures to understand all God was doing. We have the benefit of historical hindsight, but they had to keep up with the Holy Spirit's activities in one hand and the Hebvrew Scriptures in the other to understand all that was going on in Israel and to the Jews.
101G
Well-known member
Yes, the case is closed on you....
, for a HOUSE is not a tribe...... LOL, Oh Dear.this concept of a HOUSE for .... "ALL PEOPLE" not for Jews only, is nothing NEW, LISTEN and LEARN. Isaiah 56:6 "Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;" Isaiah 56:7 "Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people."
for HOW MANY PEOPLE? "ALL PEOPLE, note that term "STRANGER." it is the Hebrew term,
H5236 נֵכָר nekar (nay-kawr') n-m.
1. foreign.
2. (concretely) a foreigner.
3. (abstractly) heathendom.
[from H5234]
KJV: alien, strange (+ -er).
Root(s): H5234
with that in mind, HEAR O ISRAEL, Isaiah 14:1 "For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob." do you know what "Joined" means?
Joined: H3867 לָוָה lavah (law-vaw') v.
1. (properly) to twine.
2. (by implication) to unite, to remain.
3. (also) to borrow (as a form of obligation).
[a primitive root]
KJV: abide with, borrow(-er), cleave, join (self), lend(-er).
another word that is synonyms with joined is ..... "Grafted" ...... BINGO, there it is, JEWS and GENTILES are "Grafted into the Olive Tree which is a symbol of the HOUSEHOLD of God....... ie .. the Church God's holy Body. and this joing is a binding one, EVEN IF BROKEN OFF. ...... (smile)...... 101G just love this. one more for the road.
Isaiah 56:3 "Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree."
101G.
101G
Well-known member
AND? Now FIRST CORRECTION of the day for you. the Lord Jesus baptized 3000 people in one day. scripture, John 1:33 "And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost." one more for re-enforcement. Matthew 3:11 "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:"
if you're going to quote the bible, get it right .... ok. the Lord Jesus God, baptize ..... with the Holy Spirit.... ok.
now, speaking of the Holy Spirit baptism by the Lord Jesus. look at how many Gentiles has entered since Pentecost...... (smile)...
YIKESyes and many was .... "BROKEN OFF" for their unbelief..........
but don't worry God is able to graft them back in when they open their IGNORANT eyes, that was blinded. ...... (smile), ... coffee this morning?there is no JEWISH CHURCH, nor a GENTILE CHURCH. maybe a synagogue of Satan. Revelation 2:9 "I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan."
and don't worry my Jewish friends, there are some churche(s), note the "s" at the end of Church that are the church of Satan also..... (smile), ...
YIKES! the devil works both aisles ... lol, lol, lol, Oh Dear.101G.
101G
Well-known member
Second ERROR of the day for you. our Brother name was already written in the book of LKIFE/SAVED... before he recieved the Holy Spirit this is why the angel had him send for Peter. LISTEN and LEARN.
Acts 10:1 "There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band," Acts 10:2 "A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway." Acts 10:3 "He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius." Acts 10:4 "And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God." STOP, we need not to go any further.
why is this word "memorial" so important? this term means,
G3422 μνημόσυνον mnemosunon (mnee-mo-sï '-non) n.
a reminder (memorandum), i.e. record.
[from G3421]
KJV: memorial
Root(s): G3421
Now, why is recordkeeping is important here with God? well let's check the Recordbook the bible and find out why.
Malachi 3:16 "Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name."
WHAT! ...... a BOOK of REMEMBRANCE? so what do this term remembrance means here?
H2146 זִכרוֹן zikrown (zik-rone') n-m.
a memento (or memorable thing, day or writing).
[from H2142]
KJV: memorial, record.
Root(s): H2142
BINGO, "memorial", and what did the angel say to our brother Cornelius? " Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God". ............. Oh this is so good. this MAN....... let that sink in, this Man, be he Gentile or Jew, he's a MAN..... and as the apostle Peter said when he got there, "God is not respecter of Person". no... no. God is no respecter of a Jew....... no... no... God is no respecter of a GENTILE. no .... God is no respecter of the RICH and FAMOUS.... yes that got to be it. NO, and again no. God is no respecter of any person. THIS IS A LESSION WE ALL MUST LEARN, and get away from these IGNORANT NATIONALITIES. what did the scriptures states? Acts 17:26 "And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;"
Jewish blood is RED, and Gdntile blood is RED. for we all came from the same .... "ONE" .... Blood.
101G.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Listen and learn:Yes, the case is closed on you....
this concept of a HOUSE for .... "ALL PEOPLE" not for Jews only, is nothing NEW, LISTEN and LEARN. Isaiah 56:6 "Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;" Isaiah 56:7 "Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people."
for HOW MANY PEOPLE? "ALL PEOPLE, note that term "STRANGER." it is the Hebrew term,
H5236 נֵכָר nekar (nay-kawr') n-m.
1. foreign.
2. (concretely) a foreigner.
3. (abstractly) heathendom.
[from H5234]
KJV: alien, strange (+ -er).
Root(s): H5234
with that in mind, HEAR O ISRAEL, Isaiah 14:1 "For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob." do you know what "Joined" means?
Joined: H3867 לָוָה lavah (law-vaw') v.
1. (properly) to twine.
2. (by implication) to unite, to remain.
3. (also) to borrow (as a form of obligation).
[a primitive root]
KJV: abide with, borrow(-er), cleave, join (self), lend(-er).
another word that is synonyms with joined is ..... "Grafted" ...... BINGO, there it is, JEWS and GENTILES are "Grafted into the Olive Tree which is a symbol of the HOUSEHOLD of God....... ie .. the Church God's holy Body. and this joing is a binding one, EVEN IF BROKEN OFF. ...... (smile)...... 101G just love this. one more for the road.
Isaiah 56:3 "Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree."
101G.
The term προσήλυτος (prosēlytos) appears in the Septuagint primarily as the Greek translation for the Hebrew גֶר (ger), meaning “sojourner” "stranger" or “foreigner.” The term גֶר (ger) denoted an alien or foreigner who dwelled in Israel’s land and shared a relationship with its inhabitants. In the Septuagint, προσήλυτος (prosēlytos) is associated with an immigrant who is to be protected by the Jewish people. The relationship of a προσήλυτος (prosēlytos) with the Jewish people is indicated by the Septuagint’s rendering of Exod 22:21, “And you shall not harm a proselyte, neither shall you afflict him; for you were proselytes in the land of Egypt.” This status of proselytes also implied a degree of observation with Jewish custom and law. Exodus 23:12 explains that the Sabbath commandment to rest on the seventh day also applied to the proselyte. The proselyte was distinctly separate from the Jewish people: “The proselyte who is among you will advance over you to a great height, and you will go down very low” (Deut 28:43 LXX).
Despite the proliferation of the term προσήλυτος (prosēlytos) in the Septuagint, New Testament references to proselytes are sparse. By the time of the New Testament writings, a proselyte was specifically a gentile convert to Judaism. Jesus declared, “Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, for you cross over the sea and the land to make one proselyte, and when he becomes [a proselyte], you make him twice as much a son of Gehenna as yourselves” (Matt 23:15). The label of προσήλυτος (prosēlytos) is also applied in the same way in Acts 2:10 (2:11 in Greek); 6:5; 13:43.
The ancient world is replete with tales of Gentile conversion to Judaism. Such a conversion is described in the deuterocanonical book of Judith, where Achior, having observed “all that the God of Israel had done … believed firmly in God” (Judith 14:10 NRSV). However, the nature of a proselyte’s conversion did not center solely on belief. The account in Judith explains that Achior also “[w]as circumcised, and joined the house of Israel, remaining so to this day” (Judith 14:10 NRSV).
-- Lexham
Rahab would be considered a proselyte and enjoyed the protection of the Hebrews/Jews and the God of Yisrael.
As I have said before and this scholar seems to agree is that reference to Gentile in the New Covenant writings always referred to proselytes since they would be closest to the Hebrew/Jewish people in their communities and would be in synagogues and the Temple on Sabbath when their fellow Jewish brethren who've been born-again by the Holy Spirit in the Name of their Messiah would hear of any witness or testimony of their experiences with the Holy Spirit which would lead to more conversions as it is said "how shall they hear without a preacher."
These events taking place in Israel and also in Gentile lands through the preaching of Jewish Christians returning home from the Pentecost celebration are happening to Jews as per the New Covenant God made with the House of Israel and the House of Judah. Hard-core, uncircumcised, non-covenant Gentiles would be the furthest from these things taking place with the Jews since both communities were separated by physical barriers and the "middle wall partition" erected by God Himself when He made covenant requiring circumcision. These non-covenant Gentiles would be in their own temples worshiping idols and whatnot completely oblivious to the things going on with the Hebrew/Jewish people in Jerusalem, in Israel, and mostly in Gentile lands where the majority of Hebrews/Jews remained even after Cyrus gave command to return home and only a remnant did fulfilling the prophecy of Isaiah 10:22 and others. It was a Jewish Covenant with a Jewish Messiah who was sent to ONLY the lost sheep of the House of Israel and everything that happened in Israel until the destruction of their Temple four decades later took place among the Hebrew/Jews. And since Christ added to His (Jewish) Church daily such as should be saved (Acts 2:47) it's not unreasonable to calculate about forty million Jews were saved and born-again and populated the Jewish Church. Then, Christ stopped building, destroyed their Temple, placed blindness upon His people, then began bringing in uncircumcised Gentiles without a covenant for one reason among others and that is to make His Bride (Israel) jealous.
When the last Gentile is brought in God turns His full attention back on Israel (I wonder the effect upon Gentiles would make them angry), removes their blindness, sends two Jewish witnesses/prophets to prophesy to Israel that this Jesus was their long-awaited Messiah from out of their Law, Psalms, and Prophets and as God brings ALL Gentiles against Israel after the abomination that makes desolate very soon after two-thirds Israel are destroyed/conquered, Christ returns on a white Horse with the armies from heaven, fights alongside the Jews against the whole world. destroys them all and feeds them to the eagles and other predatory birds in the various continents of earth for food. Hallelu-JAH !!
101G
Well-known member
@jeremiah1five,
UNDERSTAND, from the beginning of the world, God had already implemented the plan of Salvation for EVERYONE.
Mystery #1. "God/Christ in US". Colossians 1:24 "Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:" Colossians 1:25 "Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;" Colossians 1:26 "Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:" Colossians 1:27 "To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:"
Mystery #2. "Gentiles inclusion in the House of God". Ephesians 3:1 "For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles," Ephesians 3:2 "If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:" Ephesians 3:3 "How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words," Ephesians 3:4 "Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)" Ephesians 3:5 "Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;" Ephesians 3:6 "That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:" Ephesians 3:7 "Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power."
this was before Israel was a NATION of PEOPLES.
101G.
UNDERSTAND, from the beginning of the world, God had already implemented the plan of Salvation for EVERYONE.
Mystery #1. "God/Christ in US". Colossians 1:24 "Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:" Colossians 1:25 "Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;" Colossians 1:26 "Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:" Colossians 1:27 "To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:"
Mystery #2. "Gentiles inclusion in the House of God". Ephesians 3:1 "For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles," Ephesians 3:2 "If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:" Ephesians 3:3 "How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words," Ephesians 3:4 "Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)" Ephesians 3:5 "Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;" Ephesians 3:6 "That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:" Ephesians 3:7 "Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power."
this was before Israel was a NATION of PEOPLES.
101G.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
I have no time for mixed up unbiblical theories.
Thanks.
101G
Well-known member
so, we can take this as you have no answer to the truth? thought so.
and good day to you too.
101G.
DavidTree
Well-known member
EXCELLENT and very thorough reply!
DavidTree
Well-known member
God raised up the Apostle Paul because it pleased Him = Galatians 3:15
But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace, to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.
DavidTree
Well-known member
Unsaved Israel is a nation on earth whereby earthbound Jerusalem and her children are in bondage to sin AND will remain that way until the LORD Returns.
SAVED Israel is the Nation of God = Born from Above = Heavenly Jerusalem
Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, which things are symbolic. For these are [g]the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children— but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written:
“Rejoice, O barren,
You who do not bear!
Break forth and shout,
You who are not in labor!
For the desolate has many more children
Than she who has a husband.”
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.” So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.
There is only ONE Household of God = GOSPEL, John ch1, Ephesians chapter 2
Flesh versus SPIRIT
DavidTree
Well-known member
On what Scriptural basis do you come to the answer(wrong) of "no"?
Apostle Paul in Romans clearly states = "The Gospel is to the Jew first and also to the Gentile"
Apostle Paul in Romans ch11 clearly states = There is only one Olive Tree that BOTH Jew and Gentile are part of TOGETHER in Christ.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
God is a God of Covenant. He's made no covenant with Gentiles.
But He has made Covenant with Abram the Hebrew and with his seed, a people born "out of thee" who were to be known as the children of Jacob/Israel. Gentiles do not come from the loins of Abraham.
God, being a God of Covenant honors the admission of circumcised proselytes. Covenant.
Abraham had them in his household, but the covenant was with Abraham.
6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Gen.17:5–7.
Gentile proselytes were knowing about God's promised Redeemer. Scriptures addressing Messiah were many. On Passover a seat was dressed for Elijah. If you have Elijah, you have Messiah. Proselytes would hear the gospel of Jesus Christ being in synagogue. And Messiah was promised to a COVENANT people: Israel. Thus, circumcised proselytes would hear about Jesus Messiah because they were involved in the Hebrew Scriptures, history, culture, covenants, promises, prophecies over and above NON-COVENANT, uncircumcised, idol-worshiping Gentiles and their dumb idols. God is a God of Covenant and ONLY THOSE IN COVENANT are recipients of all the Covenant provided.
God made no covenant with Gentiles. None.
NOWHERE in the Hebrew Scriptures are Gentiles identified as an Olive tree let alone "wild" Olive Tree. But circumcised, covenant proselytes can be identified as "wild" for they by covenant are Olive tree.
Now, repeat after me: God made no covenant with Gentiles.
There is NOTHING in the Law, Psalms, and Prophets, of the Hebrew Scriptures of God making covenant with Gentiles.
If He did I suppose there would be Gentile Scriptures. But there's none. Why?
Because God made no covenant with Gentiles not the seed of Gentiles.
NONE.
God saves those in His Covenant. And uncircumcised, non-covenant Gentiles are not in covenant with God. Not in the Abrahamic Covenant, not in the Mosaic Covenant. Not in the New Covenant.
Israel holds all the cards.
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