Better than the law...

[praise_yeshua]

Not ignoring that Christ is better. Better than the law. Saying the law is equal to Christ is to deny all sufficiency in Christ.

How about love. Is love better than the law?

What do you do when you don't love yourself or you hate yourself?

 

[praise_yeshua]

1Co 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
1Co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
1Co 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

 

[Soyeong]

Not ignoring that Christ is better. Better than the law. Saying the law is equal to Christ is to deny all sufficiency in Christ.

God's law is God's word and Christ is God's word made flesh, so he is better than God's word insofar as he is the living embodiment of God's word.

How about love. Is love better than the law?

In Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus summarized God's law as being about how to love God and our neighbor, so love is better than God's law insofar as it is the embodiment of it.

What do you do when you don't love yourself or you hate yourself?

Repent and love ourselves as God loves us. Part of the command to love our neighbors as ourselves is the command to love ourselves

 

[praise_yeshua]

God's law is God's word and Christ is God's word made flesh, so he is better than God's word insofar as he is the living embodiment of God's word.

You keep repeating this to me. I've told you why this can't be true. If the law was Christ, then Christ wouldn't have come in the flesh. The NEEDED manifestation of Christ proves the law wasn't adequate and incomplete.

In Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus summarized God's law as being about how to love God and our neighbor, so love is better than God's law insofar as it is the embodiment of it.

Repent and love ourselves as God loves us. Part of the command to love our neighbors as ourselves is the command to love ourselves.

1. Why are you appealing to what Jesus said in Matthew 22:36-40. I have said that Jesus is better. Jesus changed things. You said the law was complete and didn't need anything. Yet, here you are using what Jesus said as an example.

You're not being true to your claim. The law said specifically....

Lev 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

You don't get to use what Jesus said if Jesus didn't change anything.

2. Men can not love like God. You are insisting that man can love like God. We can not love man as God loves us. There is no commandment that states such. That is your fabrication.

Which is why I have repeatedly told you that only Christ can love his neighbor as Himself. It is Divine requirement that only Jesus Christ could possibly have done. God Incarnate.

Such nonsense as this is offensive to me. Extremely offensive to me. You are dragging Jesus Christ down to YOUR level. He is better than you. He proved it by dying for humanity.

 

[Wrangler]

Such nonsense as this is offensive to me. Extremely offensive to me.

Reading you write this way to someone besides me is both good in a way and bad in a way.

Getting back to the OP, I do believe there is still the need for the law, for those who are spiritual babes. But once we mature, we are able to maturely embrace the greater covenant of Christ and the law of love.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Reading you write this way to someone besides me is both good in a way and bad in a way.

Getting back to the OP, I do believe there is still the need for the law, for those who are spiritual babes. But once we mature, we are able to maturely embrace the greater covenant of Christ and the law of love.

I'm expressing myself accurately. We are not robots. We are emotional beings. We FEEL deeply. I honestly believe that we get these traits from God. There is nothing wrong with "feelings". In fact, Paul warned about those who were "past feeling". There are good feelings and bad feelings. Jesus was angry when He overturned the money changers tables in the Temple. He was very angry. God gets angry. Also, there is nothing wrong with "confrontation". Nothing wrong with it. Confrontation is necessary. It is one of the reasons that Jesus said...."Offenses must come". I'm not afraid of confronting others with their mistakes. You're not afraid to confront me with what you believe are my mistakes.

It is difficult for me to watch others belittle Jesus Christ with their doctrine. It is very difficult for me to tolerate and I do mean tolerate. I know you don't believe you are but in reality, you are. There is none above Him. None. My theology reflects that fact.

We can't have the needed conversation we are having and not offend one another. It is necessary. I believe "anger" is an extraordinary motivator. Ultimately, what someone does with what they learn can free them.

 

[Wrangler]

Appeal to Emotion ... It is difficult for me to watch others belittle Jesus Christ with their doctrine. It is very difficult for me to tolerate and I do mean tolerate. I know you don't believe you are but in reality, you are. There is none above Him. None. My theology reflects that fact...Appeal to Emotion ...

Your theology does not supercede other's theology. What you claim is a fact is merely your opinion based on your theology.

Trinitarians are so emotionally charged because they know they cannot support their position. I don't get too worked up when people disagree that 1+1 = 2. It is a fact, whether you accept it or not.

If you study the words of Scripture carefully, you will realize that you are wrong. There is indeed one above Jesus and that is who gave Jesus his authority. I've asked you several times who gave Jesus is authority. Being a trinitarian, you could not bring yourself to admit it is God - in his unitarian nature. Consider the following Scripture verse.

For the Scriptures say, “God has put all things under his authority.” (Of course, when it says “all things are under his authority,” that does not include God himself, who gave Christ his authority.)
1 Corinthians 15:27

Notice the singular pronoun is used to refer to God, himself? Why would God be exempted from being under Jesus' authority? Because God - in his unitarian nature - is above Jesus, OBVIOUSLY. Wonderful verse! They ought to teach this Christianity's end game verse at trinitarian school.

Always keep this Scripture verse in mind to help keep yourself staight; there is one God, the father.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Your theology does not supercede other's theology.

Back at you. Do you teach others or do you teach yourself?

What you claim is a fact is merely your opinion based on your theology.

Back at you. Do you teach others or do you teach yourself?

Trinitarians are so emotionally charged because they know they cannot support their position. I don't get too worked up when people disagree that 1+1 = 2. It is a fact, whether you accept it or not.

If you study the words of Scripture carefully, you will realize that you are wrong. There is indeed one above Jesus and that is who gave Jesus his authority. I've asked you several times who gave Jesus is authority. Being a trinitarian, you could not bring yourself to admit it is God - in his unitarian nature. Consider the following Scripture verse.

I don't remember the question directed specifically at me. Maybe I did ignore it. Not sure. I can tell you that it wasn't because I could answer it.

For the Scriptures say, “God has put all things under his authority.” (Of course, when it says “all things are under his authority,” that does not include God himself, who gave Christ his authority.)
1 Corinthians 15:27

Notice the singular pronoun is used to refer to God, himself? Why would God be exempted from being under Jesus' authority? Because God - in his unitarian nature - is above Jesus, OBVIOUSLY. Wonderful verse! They ought to teach this Christianity's end game verse at trinitarian school.

Always keep this Scripture verse in mind to help keep yourself staight; there is one God, the father.

Here. Let me help you for a moment. When you read a verse of Scripture, you shouldn't try to find yourself in what is written. You are judging Jesus Christ by your own measure. When you read and study the Scriptures, you should searching for God. Not yourself. Your mistake here is determining the statement above relative to your own experience and understanding..

BTW, I'm emotional because I love Jesus Christ. Which is why I've repeatedly ask you to declare your love for Christ. You appeal to an "emotional fallacy" that is written in man's understanding. I love Jesus Christ. He comes first.

As far your use of the word "One God"...... Let me help you. I'm going to start a new thread on just the requirement you have for "One" above.

 

[Wrangler]

Back at you.

The difference is that I have explicit Scripture on my side.

You only have extreme eisegesis + emotionalism (as you've eloquently expressed in this thread).

 

[Wrangler]

You are judging Jesus Christ by your own measure. When you read and study the Scriptures, you should searching for God. Not yourself. Your mistake here is determining the statement above relative to your own experience and understanding..

Such mysticism. Trinitarians never do this, right? What was that you said? Right back at you?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Such mysticism. Trinitarians never do this, right? What was that you said? Right back at you?

Just making the point that you're making empty arguments that can equally be applied each participant.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The difference is that I have explicit Scripture on my side.

You only have extreme eisegesis + emotionalism (as you've eloquently expressed in this thread).

No you don't. You're misapplying "One God". I started a thread in this forum. Feel free to participate.

 

[Ozias]

My understanding has always been that the law was in place to show us how much we needed Jesus. He fulfilled the law. I hope we can get this back on track cuz I think I can learn something about this stuff.

 

[Wrangler]

Just making the point that you're making empty arguments

If the argument that the trinity is invalid because it is not even in Scripture (neither word nor concept), it proves trinitarians have no reasonable rejection criteria.

 

[Wrangler]

No you don't. You're misapplying "One God".

LOL. Taking the literal word of God is misapplying?!

Much better to read all kinds of doctrine into the non-trinitarian text.

 

[Soyeong]

You keep repeating this to me. I've told you why this can't be true. If the law was Christ, then Christ wouldn't have come in the flesh. The NEEDED manifestation of Christ proves the law wasn't adequate and incomplete.

It is not the the law is Christ, but that Christ embodied the law by living in sinless obedience to it. God was not just gracious to us by giving His law, but was also gracious to us by sending Jesus to show us how to obey it (John 1:17). It is one thing to give instructions for how to embody God's righteousness and another thing for Jesus to be the embodiment of God's righteousness, but it is a difference in quality, not in type.

1. Why are you appealing to what Jesus said in Matthew 22:36-40. I have said that Jesus is better. Jesus changed things. You said the law was complete and didn't need anything. Yet, here you are using what Jesus said as an example.

You're not being true to your claim. The law said specifically....

Lev 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

You don't get to use what Jesus said if Jesus didn't change anything.

I don't need to think that Jesus made changes to the OT in order to quote him as an authority about what the OT teaches.

2. Men can not love like God. You are insisting that man can love like God. We can not love man as God loves us. There is no commandment that states such. That is your fabrication.

Which is why I have repeatedly told you that only Christ can love his neighbor as Himself. It is Divine requirement that only Jesus Christ could possibly have done. God Incarnate.

The point of God's commands is to teach us how to love like Him and it would be pointless for God to give commands if we couldn't love like Him. In John 13:34, Jesus instructed to one another as he has loved us, so we can love like him. For example, whenever someone helps the poor, they are testifying about God's love.

Such nonsense as this is offensive to me. Extremely offensive to me. You are dragging Jesus Christ down to YOUR level. He is better than you. He proved it by dying for humanity.

You excel and getting worked up over burning straw men.

 

[praise_yeshua]

LOL. Taking the literal word of God is misapplying?!

Much better to read all kinds of doctrine into the non-trinitarian text.

You didn't join the thread I started.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The point of God's commands is to teach us how to love like Him and it would be pointless for God to give commands if we couldn't love like Him. In John 13:34, Jesus instructed to one another as he has loved us, so we can love like him. For example, whenever someone helps the poor, they are testifying about God's love.

God has given you many commands that you can't accomplish. You prove it by continually breaking those commands.

So you claim you can love like God......

Do you know how silly of claim that is? You're denying the necessity of death of Jesus Christ.

Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

So when are you going to die for the ungodly? You can never love like God loves. Commands are given to teach you that you're incapable of being like God.... Yet at every turn, you insist you are capable of being like God.

There are NONE like Him. NONE.

If you're just like Him, then you become an IDOL of self worship. Which is what Satan did.

 

[Soyeong]

God has given you many commands that you can't accomplish. You prove it by continually breaking those commands.

God giving commands that we can't accomplish would be just as pointless as commanding someone to jump to the moon, but rather God knows how to give commands for our own good in order to guide us in how to rightly live.

When God's word says that His law is not too difficult and that obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse and to chose life, but you say that it is too difficult for us to obey, then I'm going to believe God's word and choose life.

So you claim you can love like God......

Do you know how silly of claim that is? You're denying the necessity of death of Jesus Christ.

Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

So when are you going to die for the ungodly? You can never love like God loves. Commands are given to teach you that you're incapable of being like God.... Yet at every turn, you insist you are capable of being like God.

There are NONE like Him. NONE.

If you're just like Him, then you become an IDOL of self worship. Which is what Satan did.

There is nothing about saying that we can love like God that is denying the necessity of the dead of Jesus Christ, you're just making that up so that you can burn another straw man instead of addressing what I've said. We are made in God's image, so we are capable of being like him and nothing in the Bible says that God's commands are given to teach us that we are incapable of being like God, but rather that is your own private doctrine. God's commands are His instructions for how to to worship Him by acting in accordance with His nature, not for how to become and idol of self worship. For example, our good works testify about God's goodness, which is why they give glory to Him (Matthew 5:16).

 

[praise_yeshua]

God giving commands that we can't accomplish would be just as pointless as commanding someone to jump to the moon, but rather God knows how to give commands for our own good in order to guide us in how to rightly live.

You're ignoring the fact that you continually break these commandments. Which is proof of your failures. Why are you ignoring this?

You are right about commandments guiding you. Commandments GUIDE you to realize your inabilities. Which force you to rely upon God instead of your own efforts.

There is nothing about saying that we can love like God that is denying the necessity of the dead of Jesus Christ

Sure there is. If you can keep the commandments of God, then Christ didn't need to die.

Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

I keep giving you the entirety of Scripture and you keep posting the same "few" Scriptures over and over again. Your theology does not deal with the entirety of Scripture. You continue to avoid this.

1. You are denying the Scriptures that prove you're wrong.
2. You're ignoring your own failures to keep the law. In fact, under the law, you should already be dead.