Better than the law...

[Soyeong]

That is not true. You are rationalizing away the requirement for judgment for breaking the law. You are making the law of God void through continued disobedience.

What the Bible says it true even if you say it's not. You're rationalizing away that your position is not deal with the entirety of Scripture and is not in accordance with the recorded reality that the people who served God were not under a curse even though they did not have perfect obedience. God's law came with instructions for what to do when the people sinned, so it never required perfect obedience, and the consistent call of the prophets was for repentance, not perfect obedience. The Bible repeatedly states that obedience to God's law is the way to be blessed and that refusing to obey it is the way to be cursed, not that obeying it is the way to be cursed and refusing to obey it is the way to avoid being cursed.

No. It has nothing to do with claiming reliance. The issue is solely on obedience. Obedience you don't have. Which means you are cursed for continuedly breaking the law. However, you're not alone. All of humanity does this. You included. You're the one pretending that you don't and you false believe that repentance frees you from obligation.

I've had these arguments most of my entire life. Do you know what saying "I'm sorry" isn't a "fix". Saying "I'm sorry" doesn't provide a remedy. It is an indication of guilt. In your case and everyone's case, it is repeatedly an indication of lasting GUILT.

Do you think that we should rely on God to guide us in how to rightly live through what He has instructed? Or do you think that God was misleading His people through what He instructed? Again, it is contradictory to think that we should rely on God, but not rely on what He has instructed.

In Proverbs 3:5-7, we have a choice between whether we are going to lean on our own understanding of right and wrong by doing what is right in our own eyes or whether we are going to trust in God with all of our heart to correctly divide between right and wrong through what He has instructed, and He will make our way straight, and this is what it means to have faith. God gave instructions for atonement so our guilt does not remain.

 

[praise_yeshua]

What the Bible says it true even if you say it's not. You're rationalizing away that your position is not deal with the entirety of Scripture and is not in accordance with the recorded reality that the people who served God were not under a curse even though they did not have perfect obedience.

Sure they were. I posted the reference. I'm not ignoring the Scripture.

Deu 27:26 Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen.

You continued not in ALL THE WORDS OF THE LAW TO DO THEM. Thusly, you are cursed.

Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

I believe the Scriptures. You do not.

God's law came with instructions for what to do when the people sinned,

Yep. Death. Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

so it never required perfect obedience, and the consistent call of the prophets was for repentance, not perfect obedience.

Liar. Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:


You weren't killed because you didn't live under Moses. Moses was the mediator and the executioner. Remember that Moses lost his own brother to the law. You really don't know the Scriptures and your own guilt.

Do you think that we should rely on God to guide us in how to rightly live through what He has instructed? Or do you think that God was misleading His people through what He instructed? Again, it is contradictory to think that we should rely on God, but not rely on what He has instructed.

God added the law because of what your ancestors did while Moses was with God. Your ancestors danced naked around a golden calf. Your ancestors polluted themselves and should have died right then in there. In fact, God offered to kill everyone of them.

I know I know.... You wouldn't have done it yourself. I know... you're better.

Exo 32:10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.

Mat 23:30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

 

[Soyeong]

Sure they were. I posted the reference. I'm not ignoring the Scripture.

For example, you've ignored Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13, 11:26-32, 28, and 30:11-20, as well as Psalms 19:7 and 1 John 5:3, and the recorded reality that those who served God were not under a curse.

Deu 27:26 Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen.

You continued not in ALL THE WORDS OF THE LAW TO DO THEM. Thusly, you are cursed.

Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

I believe the Scriptures. You do not.

Rather, you are inserting the foreign concept of perfect obedience into those verses. Again, Deuteronomy 11:26-32 makes it clear that the distinction is about choosing to serve God or to chase after other gods, not based on whether we have perfect obedience. Choosing to obey all of God's commands is the way to serve him as opposed to refusing to submit to God's commands, which is the way to chase after other gods, so it is not about perfect obedience about about who we are choosing to follow.

Yep. Death. Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

Some of the Mosaic laws specifically had the death penalty, such as the command against murder, though most of the commands did not. The Mosaic Law does not instruct to put to death anyone who commits a single sin, otherwise the Israelites would have quickly been wiped out.

Liar. Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

False accuser. Again, some laws carrying the death penalty for breaking is not the same as all of the laws carrying the death penalty.

You weren't killed because you didn't live under Moses. Moses was the mediator and the executioner. Remember that Moses lost his own brother to the law. You really don't know the Scriptures and your own guilt.

A Sanhedrin that executed once every 70 years was considered to be murderous, thankfully you are not the judge and executioner.

God added the law because of what your ancestors did while Moses was with God. Your ancestors danced naked around a golden calf. Your ancestors polluted themselves and should have died right then in there. In fact, God offered to kill everyone of them.

I know I know.... You wouldn't have done it yourself. I know... you're better.

Exo 32:10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.

Mat 23:30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

The law was added to teach us how to act in accordance with God's nature and to reveal what sin is. You are being absurd with how blatantly you are taking that out of context in order to burn a straw man.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The law was added to teach us how to act in accordance with God's nature and to reveal what sin is. You are being absurd with how blatantly you are taking that out of context in order to burn a straw man.

Have it your way. Christ represents the nature of God. Forgiveness. The law demanded your death. God does not take pleasure in death. Your claim is bogus.

 

[Wrangler]

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Notice the word "was".

Notice "Jesus" is not even part of the sentence? Oops! The trinity is not even in the Bible.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Notice "Jesus" is not even part of the sentence? Oops! The trinity is not even in the Bible.

I included another verse. You are selectively quoting me as if I didn't put them together.

 

[Wholeheart]

Actually Trinity is in the Bible you just need eyes to see.

 

[Soyeong]

Have it your way. Christ represents the nature of God. Forgiveness. The law demanded your death. God does not take pleasure in death. Your claim is bogus.

The Bible repeatedly states that obedience to God's law brings life while it is the refusal to submit to it that brings death. God does not take pleasure in dead, so he did not give the law in order to bring death to His children, not even earthly fathers give instructions to their children in order to bring death to them.

The Bible often uses the same terms to describe aspects of God's nature as it does to describe aspects of the nature of God's law, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), and it could not accurately be described as such if it were not God's instructions for how to represent those assets of His nature. Likewise, Jesus represented the nature of God by setting a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to God's law.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The Bible repeatedly states that obedience to God's law brings life while it is the refusal to submit to it that brings death.

We submit to Christ. Not the law. Submitting the law bring death. You will definitely submit one day. There is no question about it. You will die. Which is proof that you're not righteous. Righteous people don't die.

God does not take pleasure in dead, so he did not give the law in order to bring death to His children, not even earthly fathers give instructions to their children in order to bring death to them.

So you're denying that Moses had children stoned that cursed their parents? Unbelievable nonsense.

The Bible often uses the same terms to describe aspects of God's nature as it does to describe aspects of the nature of God's law, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), and it could not accurately be described as such if it were not God's instructions for how to represent those assets of His nature. Likewise, Jesus represented the nature of God by setting a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to God's law.

You don't believe this. You believe there is no separations in the law. You have said it yourself. Jesus didn't offering himself in accordance the demands of the Priestly order of Aaron.

You're not going to answer this like you've refused to answer many other valid arguments against your position. You don't have an answer. So go ahead. Repeat yourself.

 

[Soyeong]

We submit to Christ. Not the law. Submitting the law bring death. You will definitely submit one day. There is no question about it. You will die. Which is proof that you're not righteous. Righteous people don't die.

It is contradictory to submit to God's word made flesh while refusing to submit to God's word. The Bible repeatedly says that submitting to God's law brings death and that it is refusing to submit to it that brings death. In Genesis 6:8-9, it says that Noah was a righteous man, and in Luke 1:5-6, it says that Zechariah and Elizabeth were righteous, yet they all died.

So you're denying that Moses had children stoned that cursed their parents? Unbelievable nonsense.

Another straw man.

You don't believe this. You believe there is no separations in the law. You have said it yourself. Jesus didn't offering himself in accordance the demands of the Priestly order of Aaron.

Yes, I believe that. I denied that that the Bible uses certain separations like moral, civil, and ceremonial laws, but I didn't deny that the Bible uses separations. I didn't claim that.

You're not going to answer this like you've refused to answer many other valid arguments against your position. You don't have an answer. So go ahead. Repeat yourself.

I've not refused to answer any of your arguments.

 

[Wrangler]

I included another verse. You are selectively quoting me as if I didn't put them together.

Yup.

Good of you to notice. Thanks.

Do you think if I responded to this other verse, you’d likely abandon your foolish defense of trinitarianism?

 

[Dizerner]

How about love. Is love better than the law?

What do you do when you don't love yourself or you hate yourself?

Does not the Law command love?

But love without Law is compromising and unholy, permissive of immorality.

 

[Soyeong]

In Matthew 24:12-14, Jesus said that because of lawlessness the love of many will grow cold.

 

[Wrangler]

In Matthew 24:12-14, Jesus said that because of lawlessness the love of many will grow cold.

Makes sense. True love involves action. It is word play to claim to love Jesus but act lawlessly.