Augustine's unbiblical doctrine of Amillennialism

Again, verse 21 and 22 were also talking about people during the generation that was alive in Jesus' lifetime.
Again have to consider all this in context. Jesus is not talking about generic people. He's been specifically referring to God's chosen people of Israel. The sign of Jerusalem troubles. directly previous the parable of fig tree. Fig tree being a reference to nation of Israel. Summer being an aramaic idiom for 'gatherer of figs' inthe season when figs ripen. All through this passage it is about people of israel
 
The SIGNS Jesus gave in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 parallel the SEALS of Revelation 6 which Jesus gave to His Church via Apostle John.

The Pre-trib Rapture theory school tries to use the excuse that those Signs were for the Apostle's days, or at least started in the Apostle's days, and was for the Jews, which is not true. They dream up just any excuse to NOT apply them to the end events of this world leading up to Christ's future return, which is actually what they are about, and is what the SEALS of Rev.6 are also about.

The Seals, Trumpets, and Vials of Christ's Book of Revelation are about just those same 7 main Signs of the end, but broken into 21 events in Revelation.

I will do a study (don't know what area on the forum) to show the parallel of Christ's Olivet Signs with Rev.6, for those brethren interested.
Wars, rumors of wars, earthquakes and famines, Gospel preached to all nations, false prophets, false messiahs, tribulation of the saints.... Are these the main signs to which you are referring?
 
Again have to consider all this in context. Jesus is not talking about generic people. He's been specifically referring to God's chosen people of Israel. The sign of Jerusalem troubles. directly previous the parable of fig tree. Fig tree being a reference to nation of Israel. Summer being an aramaic idiom for 'gatherer of figs' inthe season when figs ripen. All through this passage it is about people of israel
But the nation of Israel is made up of many generations. A generation is not a nation among other nations. A generation is a group of people in a specific time that is part of that nation.
 
As I said, the English translation of generation is misleading. It doesn't mean what you are and many others assume. study the original text
I understand what you are saying about it being an "age" and not the people living at that time. But I think that is not really an accurate understanding. His statement in Matt 24 is very similar to His statement in Matt 16:28, where He says that, "there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." That indicates clearly that His Kingdom is already come, and we are not waiting on some future Kingdom. Matt 24 is the same. Most of the predictions have already come to pass. There is no future indication that we can look to that will clue us in to when He will return. We should constantly be looking for His return, because we cannot know when it will occur.
 
I understand what you are saying about it being an "age" and not the people living at that time. But I think that is not really an accurate understanding. His statement in Matt 24 is very similar to His statement in Matt 16:28, where He says that, "there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." That indicates clearly that His Kingdom is already come, and we are not waiting on some future Kingdom. Matt 24 is the same. Most of the predictions have already come to pass. There is no future indication that we can look to that will clue us in to when He will return. We should constantly be looking for His return, because we cannot know when it will occur.
I never said anything about it meaning an"age"
 
"Now learn the parable from the fig tree: as soon as its branch has become tender and sprouts its leaves, you know that summer is near; 33 so you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away."
Jesus is not speaking of some future generation. He is speaking of the generation of people alive and listening to Him speak at that moment. Yes, parts of the Olivet Discourse do relate to events that are still future to us, but there are parts of it that are past, and occurred before those people listening to Him on the mountain died.
Amplified Bible: "32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its young shoots become tender and it puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near; 33 so you, too, when you see all [f]these things [taking place], know for certain that He is near, right [g]at the door. 34 I assure you and most solemnly say to you, this generation [the people living when these signs and events begin] will not pass away until all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth [as now known] will pass away, but My words will not pass away."
 
Amplified Bible: "32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its young shoots become tender and it puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near; 33 so you, too, when you see all [f]these things [taking place], know for certain that He is near, right [g]at the door. 34 I assure you and most solemnly say to you, this generation [the people living when these signs and events begin] will not pass away until all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth [as now known] will pass away, but My words will not pass away."
Any human with any logical thought process could predict that with the understanding you put on it. It does not require Spiritual foresight to say that, "you will not die until after the things that will happen to you are all completed".
It makes absolutely no sense to say that some future generation will not die until after the things that will happen to that generation have happened.
The only way this is in any way a predictive statement is if it applies to the generation living at the time Jesus said it.
 
Any human with any logical thought process could predict that with the understanding you put on it. It does not require Spiritual foresight to say that, "you will not die until after the things that will happen to you are all completed".
It makes absolutely no sense to say that some future generation will not die until after the things that will happen to that generation have happened.
The only way this is in any way a predictive statement is if it applies to the generation living at the time Jesus said it.
As I've stated previously, this is a very common but flawed and incorrect understanding of this entire passage. Refer to this thread where the topic has also been addressed. There even 3 independent explanations showing the correct understanding.
 
The doctrine of Amillennialism was formulated by Augustine of Hippo (354-430) around 400 AD, four centuries after the birth of Jesus Christ. (Think about how long that it for a second. The USA hasn’t even been a country for 250 years!) ‘Amillennialism’ literally means “no millennium” and unsurprisingly maintains that there will be no literal thousand-year reign of Christ on earth before the eternal age of the new heavens and new earth, both of which are plainly detailed in Revelation 20-22.

Incredibly, this doctrine dares to suggest that we are already living in the Millennium; in fact, we’ve been supposedly living in it since the resurrection of Christ! Tell me, does it seem like Jesus has been reigning on earth for the last two thousand years? Does it appear like the devil has been bound up in the Abyss since Jesus’ resurrection in the 1st century? Of course not, the teaching is simply unbiblical and no sound student of the Scriptures would embrace the doctrine by simply reading the bible.

Even more incredible, Amillennialism teaches that we are simultaneously in both the Millennium and the 7-year Tribulation (!), the latter of which is chronicled in Revelation 6-19. Augustine’s reasoning was that the number 7 is symbolic and represents the period of time from the death/resurrection of Christ to his Second Coming. For those not in the know, the Tribulation is the 7-year period at the end of this age where God’s wrath will be poured out on the Earth wherein one quarter of the planet’s populace will perish followed by one-third of the rest (Revelation 6:8 & Revelation 9:18). Needless to say, no such calamity of this scope has happened since the ascension of Christ. Why? Simple: We’re not in the Tribulation as Amillennialism claims.

The only way Amillennialism can be accepted and perpetuated is by persuading Christian disciples through indoctrination in church or cemetery, I mean seminary. I repeat, believers would never see Amillennialism or accept it by merely reading/studying their Bibles. However, once disciples accept the idea that Amillennialism is unquestionable orthodoxy their studies of the scriptures will naturally be tainted and biased by their acceptance of this false doctrine; in other words, they’ll read the scriptures pre-supposing Amillennialism to be true, not freely or at face value, as is natural.

By contrast, when one studies the Bible free of such presuppositions, taking it simply for what it says, it isn’t difficult to see the error of Amillennialism.

The word ‘orthodox’ literally means “correct view.” What we determine to be orthodox Christian beliefs must be clearly and consistently taught in Scripture. In other words, if a doctrine is truly orthodox – that is, a “correct view” essential to Christian truth – it shouldn’t be necessary to engage in bizarre theological mumbo jumbo to prove its authenticity, like “spiritualizing” plain-as-day passages, which is what has to be done in order to “prove” Amillennialism.

The only way people who support Amillennialism can justify this doctrine is by convincing people that the Bible doesn’t really mean what it clearly says, which is that there will be a 7-year Tribulation period at the end of this age, then the devil will be bound up for a thousand years while Jesus Christ reigns on earth assisted by the resurrected saints (Revelation 20:1-6). To prove these plain truths one doesn’t have to resort to unjustified “spiritualizing” of the Scriptures, as is the case with Amillennialism. These truths can be discovered or proven simply by freely reading the Bible unhindered by foreign presuppositions.

How did a doctrine like Amillennialism come to be considered Christian orthodoxy when it’s so clearly unscriptural? The reason is that there’s another basis besides Holy Scripture used to determine the content of orthodoxy, and that is tradition. When people speak of Christian tradition they’re usually referring to religious literature, creeds and councils from the Patristic Age, or “late antiquity,” which extended from the 4th to the 8th centuries and includes Augustine’s advocacy of Amillennialism, as well as other errors. Augustine was the most prominent and influential “Church father” of this period. Christian tradition is also derived from other eras, including the later medieval, Reformation and post-Reformation eras. The very fact that Christian tradition is historically cumulative testifies that the worldwide invisible Church is in an ongoing state of reform; in other words, Christendom is not in bondage to historical tradition.

For important details on Amillennialism compared with the other views of the Millennium see this article by David Reagan, which features helpful diagrams. It contains vital information every believer should know about end-time events as prophesied in the Scriptures.


Why Am I Coming Down So Hard On Amillennialism?


Answer: Not just because Amillennialism is so grossly unscriptural, but because of the immense damage it has done to the body of Christ and our understanding of eschatology ever since it was concocted. (Eschatology, if you’re not aware, is the biblical study of end times events). For instance, to this day genuine believers all over the globe believe that when a person dies he/she either goes to Heaven to sit on a cloud playing a harp forever or goes to Hell to eternally roast in fiery torment. That’s it. If you think either of these is wholly true then Amillennialism has had a negative impact on YOU. Unfortunately, most unbelievers think this is what the Bible actually teaches; and most unseasoned believers as well. Why? Because of Augustine’s false doctrine of Amillennialism and the Roman Church’s official embracing of it in 431 AD at the Council of Ephesus. http://fountainoflifetm.com/2019/03/11/amillennialism-what-is-it-whats-wrong-with-it/

Thankfully, as with any erroneous belief, the truth will set us free (John 8:31-32).

The promised literal kingdom on earth—David’s—was what James and John’s mother referred to in Matthew 20:21. And just before Christ ascended to Heaven after His resurrection, this kingdom was still on the minds of the disciples when they asked, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” Notice that the Lord didn’t ridicule them by asking something like, “Where did you ever get an idea like that?” No, it was legitimate for them to believe that this earthly kingdom would take place. Rather, He simply reminded them that it was not for them to know exactly when; that was God’s business. They were to concentrate on obeying the Great Commission after Jesus was gone to Heaven and on occupying until He returned, just as we believers still have the responsibility to do today.

Christ’s literal kingdom was prophesied in Jeremiah 23: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, that I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness; a King shall reign and prosper, and execute judgment and righteousness in the earth. In His days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell safely; now this is His name by which He will be called: THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS” (vv. 5, 6). This is a promise, and it has yet to come to pass. If prophetic passages like these do not mean Christ’s millennial (1,000-year) reign, they are meaningless.

hope this helps !!!









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It is the conclusion of this thesis that Dr. Ryrie's statement [that the early church fathers held dispensationalist views] is historically invalid within the chronological framework of this thesis. The reasons for this conclusion are as follows: (1) the writers/writings surveyed did not generally adopt a consistently applied literal interpretation; (2) they did not generally distinguish between the Church and Israel; (3) there is no evidence that they generally held to a dispensational view of revealed history; (4) although Papias and Justin Martyr did believe in a Millennial kingdom, the 1,000 years is the only basic similarity with the modern system (in fact, they and dispensational pre-millennialism radically differ on the basis of the Millennium); (5) they had no concept of imminency or of a pre-tribulational Rapture of the Church; (6) in general, their eschatological chronology is not synonymous with that of the modern system. Indeed, this thesis would conclude that the eschatological beliefs of the period studied would be generally inimical to those of the modern system (perhaps, seminal amillennialism, and not nascent dispensational premillennialism ought to be seen in the eschatology of the period).[26]

Medieval and Reformation periods​

Amillennialism gained ground after Christianity became a legal religion. It was systematized by Augustine of Hippo in the 4th century, and this systematization carried amillennialism over as the dominant eschatology of the Medieval and Reformation periods. Augustine was originally a premillennialist, but he retracted that view, claiming the doctrine was carnal.[27]

Amillennialism was the dominant view of the Protestant Reformers. The Lutheran Church formally rejected chiliasm in The Augsburg Confession

The above article is taken from Wikipedia, so I doubt if they have a bias on this topic, but it shows that they disagree with Dr. Ryries's belief that the early church held dispensational views - that is, that resembled anything the disp's believe today. Granted, looking at his conclusion in the last sentence, first paragraph, this may be true of amillennialism too, but it does say that the "seeds" of amillennialism were there in the early church.

So Augustine did not formulate amillennialism, (i.e. he did not create it, as your word "formulate" implies) he systematized it. That is, the beliefs were present and had been since the early church days, just as some premillennial views were around.

By contrast, the dispensational view was not systematized until Darby in 1830, or about 1500 years after Augustine systematized amillennialism. During those 1500 years, guess which view dominated the church? Yep, it was amillennialism. So amillennialism was the predominant view for most of church history. The dps view has dominated the evangelical church for less than 200 years.

So you can dismiss it as the view that teaches we'll all be playing harps on clouds (which is an unwarranted insult to many intelligent people who support the view), or be eternally roasted in hell in fiery torment (which is actually relatively close to what Jesus warned unbelievers about).

Show me in Revelation 20 where it says that the saints will be reigning with Christ for 1000 years, WHILE HE IS ON EARTH.

The truth is that Christ is reigning right now - the Bible says He is, and we are reigning right now with Him - the Bible says that too.
The truth is also that the devil was defeated by Jesus on the cross and rendered powerless - the Bible also tells us that.
So who are we going to believe? You, or the Bible?


Also, show me one verse that mentions a "7-year tribulation".


 
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Any human with any logical thought process could predict that with the understanding you put on it. It does not require Spiritual foresight to say that, "you will not die until after the things that will happen to you are all completed".
It makes absolutely no sense to say that some future generation will not die until after the things that will happen to that generation have happened.
The only way this is in any way a predictive statement is if it applies to the generation living at the time Jesus said it.
It makes sense because those signs Jesus speaks of have not happened yet. So you can either bury your Bible in a hole in the ground as another meaningless piece of literature, or you can understand that if it wasn't fulfilled back then, Jesus MUST be speaking of a future fulfillment.
 
It makes sense because those signs Jesus speaks of have not happened yet. So you can either bury your Bible in a hole in the ground as another meaningless piece of literature, or you can understand that if it wasn't fulfilled back then, Jesus MUST be speaking of a future fulfillment.
You are welcome to believe that. It really makes no difference as long as you are ready today for the Lord to return. But if you are waiting to get ready until some future "sign", then it will make a very big difference because the Lord will return when you are not ready and you will end up being left out.
 
Ma
Again have to consider all this in context. Jesus is not talking about generic people. He's been specifically referring to God's chosen people of Israel. The sign of Jerusalem troubles. directly previous the parable of fig tree. Fig tree being a reference to nation of Israel. Summer being an aramaic idiom for 'gatherer of figs' inthe season when figs ripen. All through this passage it is about people of israel
Matthew ch24 is not all about the Jewish people.
 
Again have to consider all this in context. Jesus is not talking about generic people. He's been specifically referring to God's chosen people of Israel. The sign of Jerusalem troubles. directly previous the parable of fig tree. Fig tree being a reference to nation of Israel. Summer being an aramaic idiom for 'gatherer of figs' inthe season when figs ripen. All through this passage it is about people of israel
Hello EE,

Please take a LOOK here = https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/matthew-chapter-24-written-of.1112/
 
I don't see anything about the Bride or the Church in the words of Jesus in Matthew 24. It's all related to Jewish concerns. The original purpose of the nation of Israel was to be a witness to the work of God and to proclaim His salvation to all the nations. That they did NOT fulfill this purpose (yet) was a major downfall. Messiah gave the great commission to his disciples (all Jews) to actually fulfill the original purpose. That is what Jesus is describing in Matthew 24.
 
I don't see anything about the Bride or the Church in the words of Jesus in Matthew 24. It's all related to Jewish concerns. The original purpose of the nation of Israel was to be a witness to the work of God and to proclaim His salvation to all the nations. That they did NOT fulfill this purpose (yet) was a major downfall. Messiah gave the great commission to his disciples (all Jews) to actually fulfill the original purpose. That is what Jesus is describing in Matthew 24.
Can you please ask this very good question again on https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/matthew-chapter-24-written-of.1112/

Thank You Brother
 
Darby did not invent the Premill doctrine, that doctrine actually is Biblical.

But Darby did push a false pre-trib rapture, what he referred to as a secret rapture, because he had said only those raptured would know. Darby was an associate of the Edward Irving church, which was teaching a pre-trib rapture, so most likely that's where Darby picked it up. The fact for both though, is that no such doctrine was ever preached in a Christian Church prior to their day of 1830s Great Britain. Even some of their own scholars have admitted that.

So for about 1,800 years, the Christian Church held to Christ's future coming AFTER the tribulation, which is when God's Word shows His "thousand years" reign with His elect will start, which means a pre-mill coming. And this is not simply just my opinion. Those who disagree simply do not read their Bible, but allow some charlatan to tell them what The Bible does not say to deceive them.
"The Premill doctrine is Biblical", according to your interpretation, which assumes that their will be a 1000 year physical reign of Christ on this earth in Jerusalem, which itself contradicts Jesus' words that "My kingdom in not of this world." So, going by your doctrine, between the time when Jesus stood before Pilate and His 2nd Coming, He apparently decided that His kingdom would be of this world. Please show us the scripture that proves a Premill doctrine. There must be scripture that shows that when Christ spoke of "the last day", that that really wasn't the last day, because a 1000 year period, which is 365,000, days still remained. So what was Jesus referring to?
 
Listen to this! It stirs me to the core to have the Lord promise:

“Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the world” (Revelation 3:10).

The Lord has a special plan that will keep the Philadelphia church (and all true believers) from the worldwide tribulation which is to come!

The “hour of trial” is the Great Tribulation, you don't want to be there. Notice He does not say, “I will keep you through the hour of trial,” but “from the hour of trial.” This refers to the Rapture, when Jesus will catch away God’s people for Himself. I'm pre-Tribulational in my beliefs, and I clearly see in this promise that the church will not go through the Tribulation. How can the clarity of this promise be explained any other way?
 
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