Augustine's unbiblical doctrine of Amillennialism

I should add Jeremiah 31:35-37...
As Jesus is YHVH the Son, he would have been the one talking to the prophets and he possesses foreknowledge, as described in Isaiah and Romans 8....


Jer 31:35-37 WEB 35 Yahweh, who gives the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, who stirs up the sea, so that its waves roar— Yahweh of Armies is his name, says: 36 “If these ordinances depart from before me,” says Yahweh, “then the offspring of Israel also will cease from being a nation before me forever.” 37 Yahweh says: “If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, then I will also cast off all the offspring of Israel for all that they have done,” says Yahweh.


Then of course, the Romans 11 passage really kicks the 💩 out of Israel being cast off....

Rom 11:1-6 KJV 1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, 3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

This is the part that blows me away....

Rom 11:28-29 KJV 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.


Those people who claim that God is done with Israel have ignored scripture!

As one pastor I know says....

If God doesn't keep his promises to Abraham, Isaac and Israel/Jacob, we cannot, as Jesus followers, depend on Him to keep his promises to us.

But Paul makes the case that God will indeed keep his promises...

2Co 1:18-22 KJV 18 But as God is true, our word toward you was not yea and nay. 19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea. 20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us. 21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; 22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
I never believed for a second that God had abandoned his chosen people. I understand anti-semitism and why a lot of people like to believe he has but I've never bought into it.
 
Virtually all Christians who take the Bible literally expect to be raptured before the Lord comes in power to this earth.
Some Bible doctrines are nonnegotiable: the deity of Christ, for example, or salvation by grace through faith. But whether Christ comes for His church before the Tribulation, in the middle, or at the end is not a cardinal doctrine.

All Christians believe that Christ is coming with a shout from heaven and that “the dead in Christ will rise first.” Believers living at the time will be changed and raised with them to meet the Lord in the air.

Various interpretations of the timing of the Rapture do not constitute heresy and should not cause division among believers. Whereas some of my dearest personal friends disagree vigorously with me on this matter, but we do not show disrespect or question each other’s love for the Lord.
 
I never believed for a second that God had abandoned his chosen people. I understand anti-semitism and why a lot of people like to believe he has but I've never bought into it.
Praise God.
I've heard stories of numerous denominations turning against Israel, saying that they aren't actually God's people.
 
Some Bible doctrines are nonnegotiable: the deity of Christ, for example, or salvation by grace through faith. But whether Christ comes for His church before the Tribulation, in the middle, or at the end is not a cardinal doctrine.

Let me ask you a question...
If there's a doctrine that is given emphasis to motivate us to give diligence to live a godly life, versus one that gives us "permission" to not be as diligent in following Jesus, do you think that the former is of greater importance, and a "cardinal" doctrine?


All Christians believe that Christ is coming with a shout from heaven and that “the dead in Christ will rise first.” Believers living at the time will be changed and raised with them to meet the Lord in the air.

Various interpretations of the timing of the Rapture do not constitute heresy and should not cause division among believers. Whereas some of my dearest personal friends disagree vigorously with me on this matter, but we do not show disrespect or question each other’s love for the Lord.
Going back to the question...

Mat 24:42-51 WEB 42 Watch therefore, for you don’t know in what hour your Lord comes. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what watch of the night the thief was coming, he would have watched, and would not have allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore also be ready, for in an hour that you don’t expect, the Son of Man will come. 45 “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his lord has set over his household, to give them their food in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his lord finds doing so when he comes. 47 Most certainly I tell you that he will set him over all that he has. 48 But if that evil servant should say in his heart, ‘My lord is delaying his coming,’ 49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and eat and drink with the drunkards, 50 the lord of that servant will come in a day when he doesn’t expect it and in an hour when he doesn’t know it, 51 and will cut him in pieces and appoint his portion with the hypocrites. That is where the weeping and grinding of teeth will be.


It seems to me that saying that Jesus isn't coming when he says he will is giving "permission" to take it easy, and not prepare.

Furthermore, look at what Paul says in 2 Thessalonians 2.

The antichrist won't be revealed until the restrainer is removed. But that won't even happen until the falling away happens.

Then...
Why would Jesus tell us to pray always to be accounted worthy to escape what's coming on the earth and to stand before the Son of Man?

Luk 21:34-36 WEB 34 “So be careful, or your hearts will be loaded down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that day will come on you suddenly. 35 For it will come like a snare on all those who dwell on the surface of all the earth. 36 Therefore be watchful all the time, praying that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

It seems that the timing is an important doctrine.

It's important because indolence is an easy sin to fall into, and we need constant encouragement to grow in grace, grow in knowledge and understanding, to grow in wisdom...
The last thing we need is-- "hey! Don't worry about it, it'll take place after these things, so you're cool."
 
Let me ask you a question...
If there's a doctrine that is given emphasis to motivate us to give diligence to live a godly life, versus one that gives us "permission" to not be as diligent in following Jesus, do you think that the former is of greater importance, and a "cardinal" doctrine?



Going back to the question...

Mat 24:42-51 WEB 42 Watch therefore, for you don’t know in what hour your Lord comes. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what watch of the night the thief was coming, he would have watched, and would not have allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore also be ready, for in an hour that you don’t expect, the Son of Man will come. 45 “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his lord has set over his household, to give them their food in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his lord finds doing so when he comes. 47 Most certainly I tell you that he will set him over all that he has. 48 But if that evil servant should say in his heart, ‘My lord is delaying his coming,’ 49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and eat and drink with the drunkards, 50 the lord of that servant will come in a day when he doesn’t expect it and in an hour when he doesn’t know it, 51 and will cut him in pieces and appoint his portion with the hypocrites. That is where the weeping and grinding of teeth will be.


It seems to me that saying that Jesus isn't coming when he says he will is giving "permission" to take it easy, and not prepare.

Furthermore, look at what Paul says in 2 Thessalonians 2.

The antichrist won't be revealed until the restrainer is removed. But that won't even happen until the falling away happens.

Then...
Why would Jesus tell us to pray always to be accounted worthy to escape what's coming on the earth and to stand before the Son of Man?

Luk 21:34-36 WEB 34 “So be careful, or your hearts will be loaded down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that day will come on you suddenly. 35 For it will come like a snare on all those who dwell on the surface of all the earth. 36 Therefore be watchful all the time, praying that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

It seems that the timing is an important doctrine.

It's important because indolence is an easy sin to fall into, and we need constant encouragement to grow in grace, grow in knowledge and understanding, to grow in wisdom...
The last thing we need is-- "hey! Don't worry about it, it'll take place after these things, so you're cool."
Yes we need to keep oil in our lamp!
 
The point is, if being faithful and not carousing spares you from tribulation, then why are they martyrs?
The pre-tribulation rapture is the point. It's about salvation. You can faithfully give your time and read your bible but unless you've accepted Jesus you're not Saved And you will see the tribulation. As far as carousing goes you can be the most upright human In your generation but unless you've accepted Jesus you're not saved and you will see the tribulation.

The martyrs that you're talking about are from early Christianity. The term martyrs came to be used in the sense of a witness who at any time might be called upon to deny what he testified to, under penalty of death. It has nothing to do with the tribulation.

The church will be resurrected or raptured prior to that Tribulation, taken by Christ to the Father’s house and judged for their deeds since they became Christians, granted rewards for faithful service, conducted to the marriage of Christ and His Bride, and permitted to celebrate the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.
Let us rejoice and shout for joy [exulting and triumphant]! Let us celebrate and ascribe to Him glory and honor, for the marriage of the Lamb [at last] has come, and His bride has prepared herself.
8 She has been permitted to dress in fine (radiant) linen, dazzling and white—for the fine linen is (signifies, represents) the righteousness (the upright, just, and godly living, deeds, and conduct, and right standing with God) of the saints (God’s holy people).
9 Then [the angel] said to me, Write this down: Blessed (happy, to be envied) are those who are summoned (invited, called) to the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he said to me [further], These are the true words (the genuine and exact declarations) of God.
Revelation 19:7-9

After the seven-year Tribulation Christ will come in His glorious appearing, destroy Antichrist and the False Prophet, and chain Satan in the bottomless pit. He will then set up His kingdom and rule the world with His saints.


Tribulation.png
 
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Yes we need to keep oil in our lamp!
Which seems like it then matters to put in the diligence to learn a more accurate perspective.

Those 5 virgins got indolent, and let their oil get low.... I'm guessing because they thought the call had gone out, and they trimmed their lamps one too many times and weren't paying enough attention and let things drift (Hebrews 2:1).
Their thinking appears to have gotten.... "well, I'm a bit busy now, and don't have time to deal with it immediately. I'll get to it later...."

In their case, apparently later was too late.

In general, and in the past, I've agreed that the timing of his coming was secondary at best, maybe even tertiary....
But over the past few years, seeing events unfold and the prophecies concerning Israel (the lynch-pin to God's time clock), and the longer I read the Bible.... the more I find myself realizing-- Steve! Lose the indolence! Get off your derriere and get diligent.

Remember what Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 5...


1Th 5:1-10 WEB 1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need that anything be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know well that the day of the Lord comes like a thief in the night. 3 For when they are saying, “Peace and safety,” then sudden destruction will come on them, like birth pains on a pregnant woman. Then they will in no way escape. 4 But you, brothers, aren’t in darkness, that the day should overtake you like a thief. 5 You are all children of light and children of the day. We don’t belong to the night, nor to darkness, 6 so then let’s not sleep, as the rest do, but let’s watch and be sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep in the night; and those who are drunk are drunk in the night. 8 But since we belong to the day, let’s be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and for a helmet, the hope of salvation. 9 For God didn’t appoint us to wrath, but to the obtaining of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.


One of the things that strikes me is verse 9.

What.... exactly.... is the Tribulation period?

Is it just another period of human history?
It just so happens that humans finally figure out how to stand up, and create a humanist civilization, which just so happens to lead them to their demise?


It seems that this whole topic of a distinction between the harpadzo/rapture and the second coming is because people think that the tribulation period is just another period of history.
They're not paying attention to what the old testament prophecies described about it.

The tribulation period is the last 7 years of the 70 sevens owed by/to God to/by Israel, described in Daniel 9.

The departure of the church is the catalyst for the human race to "stand up" in opposition to God, and create what they think is the epitome of human civilization.
Unfortunately for the human race, their ego gets in the way, sin takes over, and as Jesus says...

Unless those days are cut short, no flesh would survive. But for the elect’s sake, they will be cut short....

I.e., God steps in, and shuts it all down.
 
Jesus only returns once.
Indeed.
Did it ever occur to you that the rapture isn't a coming to earth?
It's a meeting in the sky.
We're going to him. He's calling us, and saying...
Come up here....

Just as John was told in Revelation 4.

Rev 4:1 WEB After these things I looked and saw a door opened in heaven; and the first voice that I heard, like a trumpet speaking with me, was one saying, “Come up here, and I will show you the things which must happen after this.”
 
Explain that to all the faithful who were martyred.
What kind of explanation did you want?

Oh, gee. We're sorry.
You died for Jesus before he harpadzo'd the church, so you died ...
Ignoring that they're raised FIRST, then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the air....
And... oh, BTW, you're with Jesus now, so no worries, right?

Or... those who didn't come to Jesus before the harpadzo and were caught up in their carnal lives on earth, as unregenerate, unbelieving people... they get saved AFTERWARDS, and die in Christ, during the tribulation period...
What kind of explanation did you think...

Gee, we're sorry you missed the harpadzo. We did tell you about Jesus. But... well... you know. You thought we were nutcases and insane. So, after we left, you saw we were correct and turned to him, and well... your old friends and family members... they wound up thinking you're insane and crazy, so they murdered you, because they didn't want to know. They preferred their sin, and rejected Jesus...
But, hey... gee! You're here in heaven now, and oh, guess what... you will never again have to be exposed to the sun. You'll be able to be with Jesus forever...

So... by all means Rogue....
Tell us which explanation you need.
 
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The point is, if being faithful and not carousing spares you from tribulation, then why are they martyrs?
Ok.
This begs what I think is an incredibly stupid question...
Throughout history, those people who lived and died, believing in Jesus, are only those who died a martyrs death going to be saved?

Don't people who believe in Jesus, but had a relatively good life get saved too?
 
I know that sounds ominous, but it’s true. Hardly anyone ever talks about this one That predicts the generation that was born in 1948 will not pass away before the rapture happens. I'll try to share it with you to the best of my ability.

The Rapture—the sudden catching away of all believers in Jesus to heaven—is the initial event of the end times and that the Rapture has already happened. That with the occurrence of the Rapture, the prophetic trigger will have been pulled. That there’s no stopping the series of end-time events that will ensue.

If that view is correct, and I’m convinced it is, you may be reading these words after the Rapture. But you may be reading this before these foretold events occur. Or you may be reading these words and reeling in the immediate aftermath of the mass vanishing. Or you may be reading these words several months or even years after the vanishing. The events that will happen to those who are part of the terminal generation when time is short, very short, and there is no way to avoid what’s coming.

I know that sounds ominous, but it’s true. At this point there is no reason to tiptoe around the truth. If you’re reading these words after the disappearance of millions of people (the Rapture), you are part of the generation that will experience a series of cascading calamities unlike anything in the annals of human history. The world is on the precipice of a plunge into a time of unparalleled trouble. Jesus spoke of this terminal generation two millennia ago when He said, “Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened”

What generation was he talking about? Jesus tells us right here:

From the fig tree learn this lesson: as soon as its young shoots become soft and tender and it puts out its leaves, you know of a surety that summer is near.
33 So also when you see these signs, all taken together, coming to pass, you may know of a surety that He is near, at the very doors.
34 Truly I tell you, this generation (the whole multitude of people living at the same time, in a definite, given period) will not pass away till all these things taken together take place.
Matthew 24:32–34.

Verse 32 is talking about

Though Israel’s statehood was proclaimed on May 14, 1948 – which falls, this year, by the Hebrew calendar, on April 19th – its actual birth, as these things go, naturally took longer. Its imminence, however, was a foregone conclusion when the British, having controlled Palestine since 1920, announced their intention to withdraw from the Mandate on May 15, 1948. Noting, too, that “after 2,000 years of conflict, another twelve months will not be considered a long delay,” they tossed the country’s future to the United Nations to decide in the fall of 1947. This the U.N. did, voting on November 29, 1947- with the U.S. support of a Jewish state.

To understand this you have to go back and look at why Jesus cursed the fig tree.

Jesus enters Jerusalem amid exultation from the masses gathered for Passover. In the morning, as he travels from Bethany, he spots a fig tree “in leaf.” At this point in late spring, most fig trees haven’t developed mature fruit (Mark 11:13). But this particular tree draws Jesus’s attention because it already has a full covering of leaves. It’s an early bloomer. Its foliage signals that it should have early figs.

With that expectation, Jesus inspects the tree. He is immediately disappointed. All leaves, no fruit. All expectation, no satisfaction.

In a shocking turn, Jesus curses the tree and makes it wither from the roots, never to yield fruit again. We are taken aback; this seems stunningly out of character for Jesus, the child-welcomer, compassionate healer, and storm-calmer.

Read Matthew 24:32–34 Again and you'll see the parallel.

 
That's simply not true. "Will be kept from it" could mean a number of ways of not experiencing something, whether it's wrath or tribulation. 144,000 will be kept from the wrath, but they're not raptured.
Well what do you think they did hide out in bunkers? Or maybe.... Engineers and scientists around the country are working to develop the technologies astronauts will use to one day live and work on Mars and safely return home to Earth.

Wouldn't be a lot easier to accept the pre-tribulation rapture than to come up with a bunch of imaginary ways of not experiencing the wrath of the tribulation?
 
The pre-tribulation rapture is the point. It's about salvation. You can faithfully give your time and read your bible but unless you've accepted Jesus you're not Saved And you will see the tribulation. As far as carousing goes you can be the most upright human In your generation but unless you've accepted Jesus you're not saved and you will see the tribulation.

The martyrs that you're talking about are from early Christianity. The term martyrs came to be used in the sense of a witness who at any time might be called upon to deny what he testified to, under penalty of death. It has nothing to do with the tribulation.

The church will be resurrected or raptured prior to that Tribulation, taken by Christ to the Father’s house and judged for their deeds since they became Christians, granted rewards for faithful service, conducted to the marriage of Christ and His Bride, and permitted to celebrate the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.
Let us rejoice and shout for joy [exulting and triumphant]! Let us celebrate and ascribe to Him glory and honor, for the marriage of the Lamb [at last] has come, and His bride has prepared herself.
8 She has been permitted to dress in fine (radiant) linen, dazzling and white—for the fine linen is (signifies, represents) the righteousness (the upright, just, and godly living, deeds, and conduct, and right standing with God) of the saints (God’s holy people).
9 Then [the angel] said to me, Write this down: Blessed (happy, to be envied) are those who are summoned (invited, called) to the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he said to me [further], These are the true words (the genuine and exact declarations) of God.
Revelation 19:7-9

After the seven-year Tribulation Christ will come in His glorious appearing, destroy Antichrist and the False Prophet, and chain Satan in the bottomless pit. He will then set up His kingdom and rule the world with His saints.


View attachment 722
1. There is no such thing as a pre-tribulation rapture
2. There is no such thing as a 7 year tribulation period

A seven year tribulation period is nowhere state or even implied in the Bible. There may be a future seven year period, but it is never described as a seven year period of tribulation. There is Great Tribulation, but that is not seven years long. If you believe in a future seven year period, the Great Tribulation starts in the middle of that seven year period. It does not last a full 3.5 years. It is cut short by the return of our Lord Jesus.
 
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