Arminian perspective on Gods Sovereignty and mans free will

Johann said:
1) "And they said, Is not this Jesus," (kai elegon ouch houtos estin lesous) "And they said, is not this man Jesus," whose very name meant "Savior or deliverer," Mat_1:21; Rom_1:16; Act_4:12.

2) "The son of Joseph," (ho huios loseph) "The heir-son of Joseph," of Nazareth, Mat_2:23; Mat_13:55; Joh_7:40-42. Yes, but He was more than the mere Son of Joseph, through begettal of the Holy Spirit, Joh_1:14; Joh_3:16; Gal_4:4-5.

3) "Whose father and mother we know?" (ou hemeis oidamen ton patora kai ten metera) "Whose mother and father we know?" though they were ignorant and blind to the fact that He was also the Son of God, by them, according to their own prophets, Gen_49:10; Isa_7:14; Mic_5:2; Mar_6:1-6; Luk_4:14-16; Luk_4:22.

4) "How is it then that he saith," (pos nun legei) "How now does he continually or repeatedly say," demonstrating that the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit, 1Co_2:14; 2Co_4:3-4; Eph_4:18.

5) ''I came down from heaven?" (hoti ek tou ouranou katabebeka) "That I have come down out of and away from heaven?" As the express image of the Father, Heb_1:1-3; Eph_4:9-10; 2Co_8:9; Php_2:4-8; Joh_17:4-5.

He did not attempt publicly to explain to this promiscuous mixed crowd of skeptics matters regarding His virgin birth, a thing that would have been hopeless, since they did not believe 1 ) Moses, 2) The prophets, 3) The miraculous works that He had done.



Joh_6:41 "Therefore the Jews were grumbling" This is an imperfect tense, which implies they started to grumble or grumbled again and again. The parallel with the wilderness wandering period (cf. Exod. and Num.) is striking. The Israelites of that day also rejected Moses, God's representative, who also provided them food.

Joh_6:42 This shows that the Jews understood Jesus' words about Himself. He was clearly using Jewish idioms to claim to be pre-existent and divine! Jesus' words are still shocking coming from a Galilean carpenter! Jesus made such strong statements about Himself. He is then

1. the incarnate Son of God who brings eternal life by His words and deeds or

2. a premeditative liar or

3. a lunatic (taken from Josh McDowell, Evidence That Demands a Verdict)
The truthfulness of Jesus' claims is the issue of Christianity.

Joh_6:43 "Do not grumble among yourselves" This is a present imperative with Negative particle which usually means to stop an act already in progress.

Joh_6:44 "No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draws him" God always takes the initiative (cf.

Joh_6:65; Joh_15:16). All spiritual decisions are the result of the wooing of the Spirit, not mankind's religiosity (cf. Isa_53:6). God's sovereignty and a mandated human response are inseparably linked together by the will and mercy of God. This is the OT concept of covenant.

The balance to this "drawing of God" is found in Joh_12:32 where Jesus "draws all men to Himself." This drawing reverses the OT pattern of God's people not responding to His prophetic word (examples: Isa_6:9-13; Isa_29:13; Jeremiah). God now speaks, not through prophets to Israel, but through His Son to all mankind (cf. Heb_1:1-3).

Next proof text please, since Calvinism is a hindrance and an obstacle to the "whosoever"

Johann.
Click to expand...
Show me one scripture that says man has the ability to believe on Christ. Jesus plainly denies it Jn 6:44,65 This makes mans freewill a myth
 
brightfame52 said:
@TomL



Not even one. Here are two that declare no man can believe on Christ by their ability Jn 6:44,65
Click to expand...
You are bearing false witness

John 1:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

John the apostle believes the testimony of John the Baptist is sufficient for faith.

John 5:45–47 (KJV 1900) — 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

How much exegesis is needed to see men believed based upon the woman's testimony

John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

men will be able to believe based on the apostle's testimony.



Acts 19:8 (ESV) — 8 And he entered the synagogue and for three months spoke boldly, reasoning and persuading them about the kingdom of God.

Paul persauded men concerning the Kingdom of God

Acts 17:2–4 (ESV) — 2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.” 4 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women.



Convincing them Jesus was the Christ



Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.



Even the preaching of the old testament is sufficient






John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

The reading of scripture is sufficient for belief

2 Timothy 3:15 (NIV) — 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 3:4–11 (NIV) — 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. 7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of his power. 8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10 His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11 according to his eternal purpose that he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord.

As is the preaching of it.

Romans 10:10–17 (KJV 1900) — 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.



John 7:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 And many of the people believed on him, and said, When Christ cometh, will he do more miracles than these which this man hath done?



Miracles have power to bring about faith



John 5:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

God blinded men to prevent their belief. Why would God blind someone who had no ability to see?



Why prevent from believing those who had no capacity for belief

Luke notes had men not grown hardened they could have believed

Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.


unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy and believe

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

You add to your unbelief of scripture
 
brightfame52 said:
Show me one scripture that says man has the ability to believe on Christ. Jesus plainly denies it Jn 6:44,65 This makes mans freewill a myth
Click to expand...
You were given many, but you just ignore them. Never addressing a one

T

Post in thread 'Arminian perspective on Gods Sovereignty and mans free will'

brightfame52 said:
@TomL



Not even one. Here are two that declare no man can believe on Christ by their ability Jn 6:44,65
Click to expand...
You are bearing false witness

John 1:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

John the apostle believes the testimony of John the Baptist is sufficient for faith.

John 5:45–47 (KJV 1900) — 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye...
 
@TomL

You are bearing false witness
Click to expand...

You havent showed one verse that says man has the abilty to believe on Jesus, yet I have showed you n 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

This means no man has the ability to come to Jesus Christ, and come here is the equivalent to believe. See here in Vs 35

And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
 
TomL said:
You were given many, but you just ignore them. Never addressing a one

T

Post in thread 'Arminian perspective on Gods Sovereignty and mans free will'

brightfame52 said:
@TomL



Not even one. Here are two that declare no man can believe on Christ by their ability Jn 6:44,65
Click to expand...
You are bearing false witness

John 1:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

John the apostle believes the testimony of John the Baptist is sufficient for faith.

John 5:45–47 (KJV 1900) — 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye...
Click to expand...
Show me one scripture that says man has the ability to believe on Christ.
 
brightfame52 said:
@TomL



You havent showed one verse that says man has the abilty to believe on Jesus, yet I have showed you n 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

This means no man has the ability to come to Jesus Christ, and come here is the equivalent to believe. See here in Vs 35

And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
Click to expand...
lol.

This just says man can not come unless God draws.

But they can come. God draws in many different ways..

that's why they are judged or not judged based on wither they had faith or remained in unbelief
 
Eternally-Grateful said:
actually every one of them show it.

You wake up dude.. And take your pride elsewhere..
Click to expand...
You have yet to show a one verse stating man has the ability to believe in Jesus, Jesus states no man has that ability Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
 
Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44 (KJB)No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. Can - Be able, have power to do, have capacity for Draw - Drag or force The fact is clear that the sinner, which Christians used to be, is spiritually dead and loves their sin. (John 3:19 KJV) And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. Since man is dead in sins, there is no way that they can come to Christ, and this verse shows us that no man is able or has the power to come to Christ of their own volition. The way that a person comes to Christ is that the Father must draw or literally drag them. Since they are in a state of spiritual death, all they know is sin and this world. God has to take them and resurrect their souls, grant them spiritual ears and eyes, place the Holy Spirit in them, thus giving them salvation. God then takes them and transfers them from the kingdom of Satan to the Kingdom of God. (Col 1:12-13 KJV) Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: {13} Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: Colossians 1:12-13 speaks about God the Father qualifying us to be partakers of the inheritance of the Saints and then translating us from darkness to the Kingdom of God. So this verse completely squelches the false notion of free will because we see that it is the Father who does the work of salvation in the life of the believer. Those who claim that they can save themselves by their own will are basically stating that they have as much strength and authority as the Father. Think about it. This verse is also the third declaration in John where Jesus speaks about the rapture of the Saints at the last day. https://www.scionofzion.com/john_6_41_45.htm
Click to expand...
 

Similar threads

civic
Gods Sovereignty and mans free will
Replies
4
Views
480
TibiasDad
TibiasDad
FreeInChrist
SOTERIOLOGY 101, Provisionism [ Calvinists of course can be excluded.]
Replies
0
Views
43
FreeInChrist
FreeInChrist
civic
Gods Inability to save
19 20 21
Replies
412
Views
3K
Jim
J
civic
Does God have a free will ?
Replies
14
Views
251
TomL
T
atpollard
The 5 Articles of Remonstrance (Arminianism)
11 12 13
Replies
253
Views
2K
synergy
synergy
Back
Top Bottom