Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
But they do not have to be born again first.. God brings or draws them to him.. First part of this drawing is his creation (romans 1)
Arminian perspective on Gods Sovereignty and mans free will
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Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
But as many as have received him. to them gave he the right
also John 6 in the passage you use
36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
Nothing here says man does not have the ability..
so again, Take your pride. and your calvinist twist. and please humble yourself
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
yawn
Your calvinism has you blinded
don't pull a verse out of a whole conversation out of context and try to make up a doctrine.
to those of us who have studied. this Trick will not work. we will see right through you
brightfame52
Active Member
man doesnt have the ability to believe in Jesus Christ.
MTMattie
Active Member
Just because you do not believe in Jesus the Christ does not ean I do not. Quit throwing words out there that YOU cannot prove.
MTMattie
Active Member
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.???
Has it not occurred to you that all may have been drawn, even though they do not believe it? There is no where that says
we must believe the Father draws us, it says we must believe/ have faith in Jesus.
To be saved, we must believe that Jesus died on the cross for our sin. The only way to fix our sin problem is through faith in the sacrificial death of Christ on the cross. As the incarnate and perfect Son of God, Jesus is the only one who could absorb the punishment for our sins and save us from God’s wrath (see Isaiah 53). He is the only one who could die in our place (1 Peter 2:24).
To be saved, we must believe in the resurrection of Christ. The physical, bodily resurrection of the Lord is the cornerstone of the Christian faith. This momentous event proves that Jesus overcame Satan, sin, and death. If He did not rise again, then we would remain stuck in our sins (1 Corinthians 15:17). But He did rise from the grave, powerfully demonstrating that all who believe in Him will overcome sin and death and will live with Him for eternity. As Jesus told His disciples, “Because I live, you also will live” (John 14:19).
I know I believe. Do you? How did that happen for you?
brightfame52
Active Member
Im saying man doesnt have the ability to believe in Jesus Christ. Jn 6:44
MTMattie
Active Member
I have the ability. So quit lying about me.
brightfame52
Active Member
You speaking against what Christ said, thats between you and Jesus Christ testimony John 6:44
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
civic
Active Member
And it’s those who listen and learn from the Father being the ones He draws to the Son John 6:45- Everyone who has listened to and learned from the Father comes to me
Dizerner
Active Member
MTMattie
Active Member
Then He must have drawn me must He not? Its just that I dont remember anything other then my desires to grow to God
and then when the Holy Spirit came at me, then I never looked back.
How did it work for you/ I have asked you that but you wont tell us.
brightfame52
Active Member
No I didnt forget anything, Jesus stated man doesnt have the ability to believe in Him. Jn 6:44
brightfame52
Active Member
I dont know nothing about you. I see you opposing the truth I present.
Dizerner
Active Member
Jesus also stated with God all things are possible.
So yes.
You absolutely did forget the most important thing—God's grace.
civic
Active Member
Nope Jesus never said that in fact He said the opposite. He taught total ability below . It was their faith not the faith Jesus game them that saved them . Try reading what Jesus taught not calvin.
Jesus said it was THEIR faith that saved them.
Luke 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith ( I have given you )hath saved thee; go in peace.
Luke 8:48
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith ( I have given you )has healed you. Go in peace."
Luke 17:19
Then Jesus said to him, "Rise and go; your faith( I have given you ) has made you well!"
Luke 18:42
"Receive your sight!" Jesus replied. "Your faith( I have give you ) has healed you."
Matthew 8:10
When Jesus heard this, He marveled and said to those following Him, "Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.
Matthew 8:13
Then Jesus said to the centurion, "Go! As you have believed, so will it be done for you." And his servant was healed at that very hour.
Matthew 9:2
Just then some men brought to Him a paralytic lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, "Take courage, son; your sins are forgiven.
Matthew 9:22
Jesus turned and saw her. "Take courage, daughter," He said, "your faith has healed you." And the woman was cured from that very hour.
Matthew 9:29
Then He touched their eyes and said, "According to your faith will it be done to you."
Matthew 15:28
"O woman," Jesus answered, "your faith is great! Let it be done for you as you desire." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.
Mark 5:34
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be free of your affliction."
Mark 10:52
"Go," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you." And immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus along the road.
John 4:53
So the father knew that it was at the same hour, in the which Jesus said unto him, Thy son liveth: and himself believed, and his whole house.
More than one
John 1:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
John the apostle believes the testimony of John the Baptist is sufficient for faith.
John 5:45–47 (KJV 1900) — 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.
How much exegesis is needed to see men believed based upon the woman's testimony
John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
men will be able to believe based on the apostle's testimony.
Acts 19:8 (ESV) — 8 And he entered the synagogue and for three months spoke boldly, reasoning and persuading them about the kingdom of God.
Paul persauded men concerning the Kingdom of God
Acts 17:2–4 (ESV) — 2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.” 4 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women.
Convincing them Jesus was the Christ
Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
Even the preaching of the old testament is sufficient
John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
The reading of scripture is sufficient for belief
2 Timothy 3:15 (NIV) — 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 3:4–11 (NIV) — 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. 7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of his power. 8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10 His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11 according to his eternal purpose that he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord.
As is the preaching of it.
Romans 10:10–17 (KJV 1900) — 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
John 7:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 And many of the people believed on him, and said, When Christ cometh, will he do more miracles than these which this man hath done?
Miracles have power to bring about faith
John 5:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
God blinded men to prevent their belief. Why would God blind someone who had no ability to see?
Why prevent from believing those who had no capacity for belief
Luke notes had men not grown hardened they could have believed
Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy and believe
Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
Unless one hears and learns
John 6:45 (NASB95) — 45 “It is written in the prophets, ‘AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.
You cannot show those who have heard cannot learn
You love to ignore context and scripture contrary to your views.
MTMattie
Active Member
You present no truth.
I ask you questions and you avoid answering with comments such as these.
Why can you not simply state your position without getting all hyper about it?
civic
Active Member
Yes scripture is filled with mans ability to believe the gospel, be healed, be converted, be reasoned with many times by Paul as demonstrated in the book of Acts etc......
He has no legs to stand upon with inability.
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