Arminian perspective on Gods Sovereignty and mans free will

civic

civic

Well-known member

God’s Sovereignty and Man’s Free Will​


Sometimes Calvinists will say that Arminians have a small God. I have been told by Calvinists that the Calvinist God is “bigger” and therefore superior to my “little” Arminian God. Usually this claim is framed within the context of whether or not God can truly “save” anyone in an Arminian framework. Since the Arminian believes that God requires the genuine response of faith on the part of His creatures, then He is apparently quite small compared to the Calvinist God who just overpowers His creatures with His grace and makes sure that they are saved, etc. etc…you get the point.
I find this to be a terrible misunderstanding of the Arminian position, but that is the subject for a future post. For now I want to ask the Calvinist which God is bigger in a different context. Is a God who can only control His universe through cause and effect bigger or smaller than a God who can allow for true contingency in His creatures and still accomplish His will? Picirilli makes the point effectively in Grace, Faith, Free Will:
…Arminians believe that there is no threat to, or restriction of, God’s sovereign freedom, who runs everything (nothing omitted) as He pleases, by having another personal and free (although limited) being in the universe.
Arminians consider that this view magnifies God’s omniscience. In the Arminian conception of the universe, God foreknows true contingencies. Man really can choose either of two ways, and God really knows which he will choose.
Likewise, Arminians consider that this view magnifies God’s power, in at least two interrelated ways.
1. God was able to create a being who was not merely “determined,” but an actor who also “determines” things, a being who is free and in His own image. He of the only true sovereign will was able to endow man with a will that really has the power of decision and choice.
2. God is able to govern the truly free exercise of men’s wills in such a way that all goes according to His plan. A God who created a complex universe inhabited by beings pre-programmed to act out His will for them would be great. But one who can make men with wills of their own and set them free to act in ways He has not determined for them, and still govern the whole in perfect accord with His purpose is greater. (page 43, italics his)
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He then goes on to quote Arminus:
If the divine Wisdom knows how to effect that which it has decreed, by employing causes according to their nature and motion- whether their nature and motion be contingent or free, the praise due to such wisdom is far greater than if it employ a power which no creature can possibly resist. (ibid.)
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Arminians hold that God is wise enough to accomplish His will despite filling this world with creatures who are capable of free choice. We cannot explain how exactly God does this but are careful not to put limits on God’s omniscience and infinite ability. F. Leroy Forlines comments on the text that seems to best demonstrate God accomplishing His will through human free agents. Calvinists understand this passage through the lenses of their compatibilist assumptions, but Forlines well shows how these passages can harmonize with the libertarian understanding of free will and the Arminian understanding of divine foreknowledge:
It is important we realize that God did not foresee the future as a passive observer. He did not simply raise the curtain of time and look at a future that was already fixed before He looked. He planned the future. But when He planned the future with regard to human beings who were made in His image and thus were personal beings with a mind, heart, and will, He chose to work with them in accord with the influence and response model. He has a cause and effect relationship with the material universe, but such is not the case with human personality.
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The cross of Christ was a predestined event. At the same time, numerous human beings were involved in one way or another in effecting this event. Since human beings with free will were involved, in the crucifixion event, we must understand the role of God’s foreknowledge in predestinatedevents…It is the kind of God that I have just attempted to describe [a God who was not a mere spectator] who foresaw the future from all eternity. As He foresaw the future, He saw it as it would progressively unfold from: (1) The result of His creative activity and His divine influence. (2) The result of the devastating influence of sin. (3) The result of the response that human beings would give as a result of the redemptive work of Jesus Christ, the ministry of the Holy Spirit, the ministry of the Word of God, and the ministry of the redeemed. (4) The result of all influences that would come from outside Himself. (5) The result of all influence that He would bring on people through His power and His infinite wisdom. He saw, then, everything that He sees and is doing now. He is the same God now that He was then. Everything that He is doing now is just as real as it would be if He had not known it in advance.
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God’s omniscience and wisdom furnished Him with all the information and the ‘know how’ that was needed for Him to arrange the death and sufferings of Jesus Christ as the means of atonement for the sins of the world. With the aid of His infinite knowledge and wisdom, the determinate counsel was able to predetermine the crucifixion of Christ in eternity past. In this arrangement foreknowledge was aiding, but foreknowledge as foreknowledge did not bear a causal relationship to the plan for the crucifixion to occur. Without foreknowledge, the determinate counsel could not have prearranged and predetermined the plan. (The Quest For Truth, pg. 396)
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I find this explanation far more satisfying then the “compatibilistic” approach of Calvinism. While there is mystery in how God can perfectly arrange an event like the crucifixion without violating the free will of His creatures, it is a true mystery on par with the Trinity, incarnation, and creation Ex Nihilo. It is not hard to accept given God’s unfathomable wisdom. Compatibilism, on the other hand, wants us to accept two completely contradictory assumptions under the umbrella of “mystery”. It tells us that God causes people to engage in sinful activity, and yet also tells us that God is not the author of sin. It tells us that the one who sins in accordance with God’s infallible decree is responsible for that sin while the God who ordained that sin is not. That is not a “mystery”. That is a flat contradiction and an abuse of normal human language.

It seems to me that when it comes to the scope and nature of God’s sovereignty, the Arminian God is far wiser than the God of Calvinism. A God who controls His universe like a puppet master is not that impressive to me. A God who can control His universe and accomplish His will without having to override or meticulously control the will of His creatures seems far more impressive and worthy of worship. I believe that Calvinism does not exalt God’s sovereignty but rather limits it by not properly incorporating God’s infinite wisdom into the equation. The Arminian view exalts God’s sovereignty within the balanced context of His omnipotence and omniscience. It also allows for divine mystery within its proper context and definition, without expecting us to accept disturbing contradictions. https://arminianperspectives.wordpress.com/2007/09/24/gods-sovereignty-and-mans-free-will/

The Calvinist view differs in that it can only comprehend God’s sovereignty within the context of cause and effect. If His creatures are free in a libertarian sense, then He is not sovereign. The only *freedom* in Calvinism is a freedom to do what God causes us to do. The Calvinist will say that we choose according to our desires, but our desires are ultimately determined by God, so in the end we are only free to do what God causes us to do.

Arminians also believe that we choose according to our greatest desire. We also believe that we are the ones who decide what that greatest desire will be. We ourselves give weight to the options presented to us and choose accordingly. We do not believe that motives and desires push us around, but rather that we determine what our greatest desire will be and which motive will ultimately become the strongest, etc. The freedom of Calvinism is more like the freedom of a falling rock to keep falling, or the freedom of a man hooked up to a respirator to keep breathing.

hope this helps !!!
 
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I like what this computer programmer had to say

J.C. Thibodaux

It seems to me that when it comes to the scope and nature of God’s sovereignty, the Arminian God is far wiser than the God of Calvinism. A God who controls His universe like a puppet master is not that impressive to me.

That’s quite true. I’m a computer programmer, being the ‘puppet master’ of a miniature universe is pretty easy actually, whereas an algorithm that can act in an unexpected/inconsistent fashion for a given input or make a truly non-deterministic decision is impossible for us thus far (even ‘random’ numbers are based on an input such as time). In short: We can make robots –even virtual worlds full of them– but we can’t produce anything on the level of free will. The fact that we are given just that says a lot for the awesome creative power and wisdom of the God of the Bible.
 
An honest response to those who read the article from its author. This man has a great attitude regarding this debate that will be here until we are all in heaven together. :

The first bit of advice I need to give you is to relax. Your understanding of this is not of crucial importance. What matters is that you love God and follow Him with all your heart. Look at this as a doctrinal hobby that drives you to investigate God’s word. Your salvation does not hang in the balance. God loves you, and He will give you wisdom if you ask Him.

I fully understand how consuming this debate can become. For me, it is important to know what I believe and why so that I can preach and teach with conviction. I also enjoy this debate because it drives me to closely examine God’s Word, and to question my own presuppositions, which is never a bad thing. I think I might also be a little fond of arguing as well.

Anyway, the point is that your quest for truth should be an enjoyable venture. It should not cause you stress or frustration to the point of interfering with your relationship with God. If you can’t read Scripture and hear from God without constantly thinking about how a certian passage relates to Arminianism or Calvinism, then it is time to take a break and fall in love with God again, enjoy football, etc. [BTW I am a huge Steelers fan].

I am going to be very candid with you and admit that I am still very much a seeker. I do not have it all figured out and I am OK with that. If I was not OK with that, then I would quickly lose my mind. Let me tell you why I am personally more of an Arminian than a Calvinist.

1) I find that Calvinistic determinism will lead to the conclusion that God is the author of sin. I cannot accept this as I feel it is very inconsistent with the God revealed in the Bible. I find Calvinistic attempts around the conclusion that God authors sin in their system to be unsatisfying both Scripturally and philosophically.

2) I believe the Bible is very clear that Christ truly died for all of mankind and that the offer of salvation is a genuine offer to all. I find the Calvinistic exegesis of the universal passages to very strained and artificial.

3) I believe that the Bible truly warns believers against the very real possibility of falling away. This does not comport with Calvinism and I find that Calvinistic attempts to explain these passages away to be unsatisfying and often times ridiculous.

Those are my main objections. The rest is just details regarding each point.

I believe that the fall of man brought corruption on the entire race. I believe that we are unable to come to God without God first doing a supernatural work in our hearts. I believe that God does this work in evreybody who hears the gospel. I believe the gospel has real power to change any life.

How God does this work in us, or how it is that we respond are details that are fun to discuss, but unimportant compared to the main point that the gospel offer is a genuine offer that all people can truly respond to. We can speculate on the details, but ultimately it is a mystery that we will never fully grasp.

I believe that our response to God’s grace is faith and this faith is enabled by the Holy Spirit. In this sense faith is a gift. I do not believe that faith is an irresistible gift given only to some, or that it is something God does in us without our consent. We ourselves are the ones who believe. Faith is not part of the salvation package that God gives us, it is the way in which we receive God’s salvation. Faith, whatever it is, can never be called a work. It is a looking away from our works to the work and merit of Jesus Christ. Why some receive Christ and others reject Him is something I cannot fully explain, nor do I feel I need to.

I also believe that when Paul speaks of “works” he has in mind the specific works of the Jewish law. His point was not that there is nothing at all that we can do to recieve salvation [as in believe], but that there is no works of merit that earn salvation for us. That is why faith is contrasted with works. It is not an act of merit by which we earn God’s favor. It is a turning to Christ as the only means of salvation. Faith is credited as rigteousness because we apprehend God’s righteousness through faith. If faith were an act of righteousness by nature then God could not “credit” it as righteousness, it would already be righteous.

That is quite a mouthful, and there is much more that I could say. The bottom line is to keep seeking God and be open and humble enough to admit that you do not have all the answers. God loves you and does not want you to go crazy over this. It should not become an idol that takes your focus off your love for God and desire to see others come to know Him. Doctrinal studies can become an idol just like anything else. We need to carefully guard ourselves against that possibility.
 
civic said:
I like what this computer programmer had to say

J.C. Thibodaux

It seems to me that when it comes to the scope and nature of God’s sovereignty, the Arminian God is far wiser than the God of Calvinism. A God who controls His universe like a puppet master is not that impressive to me.

That’s quite true. I’m a computer programmer, being the ‘puppet master’ of a miniature universe is pretty easy actually, whereas an algorithm that can act in an unexpected/inconsistent fashion for a given input or make a truly non-deterministic decision is impossible for us thus far (even ‘random’ numbers are based on an input such as time). In short: We can make robots –even virtual worlds full of them– but we can’t produce anything on the level of free will. The fact that we are given just that says a lot for the awesome creative power and wisdom of the God of the Bible.
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Thank God for Paul's words defining love.

1Co 13:4 Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant
1Co 13:5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;
1Co 13:6 it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth.

We know that love does not seek "its own".
 
praise_yeshua said:
Thank God for Paul's words defining love.

1Co 13:4 Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant
1Co 13:5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;
1Co 13:6 it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth.

We know that love does not seek "its own".
Click to expand...
Amen I’m glad we have scripture defining Gods love and what that looks like so anyone can understand that kind of love.
 
civic said:

God’s Sovereignty and Man’s Free Will​


Sometimes Calvinists will say that Arminians have a small God. I have been told by Calvinists that the Calvinist God is “bigger” and therefore superior to my “little” Arminian God. Usually this claim is framed within the context of whether or not God can truly “save” anyone in an Arminian framework. Since the Arminian believes that God requires the genuine response of faith on the part of His creatures, then He is apparently quite small compared to the Calvinist God who just overpowers His creatures with His grace and makes sure that they are saved, etc. etc…you get the point.
I find this to be a terrible misunderstanding of the Arminian position, but that is the subject for a future post. For now I want to ask the Calvinist which God is bigger in a different context. Is a God who can only control His universe through cause and effect bigger or smaller than a God who can allow for true contingency in His creatures and still accomplish His will? Picirilli makes the point effectively in Grace, Faith, Free Will:

He then goes on to quote Arminus:

Arminians hold that God is wise enough to accomplish His will despite filling this world with creatures who are capable of free choice. We cannot explain how exactly God does this but are careful not to put limits on God’s omniscience and infinite ability. F. Leroy Forlines comments on the text that seems to best demonstrate God accomplishing His will through human free agents. Calvinists understand this passage through the lenses of their compatibilist assumptions, but Forlines well shows how these passages can harmonize with the libertarian understanding of free will and the Arminian understanding of divine foreknowledge:




I find this explanation far more satisfying then the “compatibilistic” approach of Calvinism. While there is mystery in how God can perfectly arrange an event like the crucifixion without violating the free will of His creatures, it is a true mystery on par with the Trinity, incarnation, and creation Ex Nihilo. It is not hard to accept given God’s unfathomable wisdom. Compatibilism, on the other hand, wants us to accept two completely contradictory assumptions under the umbrella of “mystery”. It tells us that God causes people to engage in sinful activity, and yet also tells us that God is not the author of sin. It tells us that the one who sins in accordance with God’s infallible decree is responsible for that sin while the God who ordained that sin is not. That is not a “mystery”. That is a flat contradiction and an abuse of normal human language.

It seems to me that when it comes to the scope and nature of God’s sovereignty, the Arminian God is far wiser than the God of Calvinism. A God who controls His universe like a puppet master is not that impressive to me. A God who can control His universe and accomplish His will without having to override or meticulously control the will of His creatures seems far more impressive and worthy of worship. I believe that Calvinism does not exalt God’s sovereignty but rather limits it by not properly incorporating God’s infinite wisdom into the equation. The Arminian view exalts God’s sovereignty within the balanced context of His omnipotence and omniscience. It also allows for divine mystery within its proper context and definition, without expecting us to accept disturbing contradictions. https://arminianperspectives.wordpress.com/2007/09/24/gods-sovereignty-and-mans-free-will/

The Calvinist view differs in that it can only comprehend God’s sovereignty within the context of cause and effect. If His creatures are free in a libertarian sense, then He is not sovereign. The only *freedom* in Calvinism is a freedom to do what God causes us to do. The Calvinist will say that we choose according to our desires, but our desires are ultimately determined by God, so in the end we are only free to do what God causes us to do.

Arminians also believe that we choose according to our greatest desire. We also believe that we are the ones who decide what that greatest desire will be. We ourselves give weight to the options presented to us and choose accordingly. We do not believe that motives and desires push us around, but rather that we determine what our greatest desire will be and which motive will ultimately become the strongest, etc. The freedom of Calvinism is more like the freedom of a falling rock to keep falling, or the freedom of a man hooked up to a respirator to keep breathing.

hope this helps !!!
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Except Compatibilism is not contradictory. I hear the claim a lot but unfortunately the evidence is non existent.
 
TomL said:
Free will is the capacity or ability to choose between different possible courses of action unimpeded. It is closely linked to concepts such as moral responsibility, praise, culpability, and other judgments that apply only to actions freely chosen123.
In essence, free will allows us to make decisions independently, without being solely determined by external factors or prior events.
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Free will is the NATURAL ability to make choices free from force or coercion.

Nobody makes a choice without external factors or prior events.
 
Presby02 said:
Every choice you make is determined by external or previous factors. Name one that is not.
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My choice to drink the cup of tea I just did

I could have refrained from it

Based on your reply can we assume you are therefore a metaphysical fatalist

j
 
TomL said:
My choice to drink the cup of tea I just did

I could have refrained from it

Based on your reply can we assume you are therefore a metaphysical fatalist

j
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You could have but your desire for the tea won out. You did not choose the tea for no reason.
 
Presby02 said:
Which changes nothing. Your greatest desire at the moment you chose was for the rea. Tea is awful by the way.
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Bite your tongue

If I decided what was my greatest desire at the moment, then it was not necessary at the moment.

Therefore I could have decided differently and your argument fails apart
 

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