See post 135.
Are we told to worship Jesus or are we told to worship God?
- Thread starter MatthewG
- Start date
See post 135.
Wrangler
Active Member
Jesus is not the Father, who alone is the true God.
Obadiah
Active Member
do you believe in Bible times? You realize of course Christianity comes from Bible times. Is that like erasing history? That's like “condemnation of memory,” the term refers to a practice associated with ancient rulers who called for the erasure of their predecessors from the historical record; their likeness removed from statues, monuments, coinage and texts. It was a punishment the ancient Romans viewed as worse than death.
Yes we are to love God and to love others part of doing that is pointing out Heresy.
I like delirious They are one of my favorite Christian rock bands. You ever hear of them?
Its a good question.
Me too, its good to listen to what Jesus said. Today you already know he is the Lord God Almighty, but it is his overcoming which he gets to sit on his fathers throne, but he is not over his father. I believe that Jesus was the Word of God.
I dont think any of us are blasphemying or doing anything wrong.
Post 112.
civic
Active Member
I only posted 8 passages about prayer to Jesus. I left several dozen out.
Should I only post a single verse so we can discuss it ?
Johann
Active Member
Jesus’ Equality and Identity with God
Jesus asserts his equality and identity with God in the face of blasphemy charges by the Jewish leaders. He is charged with making himself equal with God (John 5:16–47) and later for identifying himself with God (John 10:25–39).
His accusers threaten the penalty for blasphemy. In both cases, Jesus denies the charge on the grounds that he is speaking the truth, citing in support the plurality of witnesses required by Jewish law. In John 14:1 Jesus co-ordinates himself with God as the object of faith – “Believe in God; believe also in me.”
Similarly, like frames around a picture, John refers to him as “God” in John 1:18 at the start of his Gospel and has Thomas confessing him as “my Lord and my God” in John 20:28 at the end.
Paul’s characteristic name for Jesus Christ is “Lord” (kurios), the Greek word commonly used for YHWH (יהוה), the covenant name of God in the Old Testament.
By this pervasive use Paul shows he regards Jesus as having the status of God, without abridgement. He makes no attempt to explain or defend it, mentioning it so unselfconsciously that, as Hurtado comments, it entails its being everyday currency among the early Christians.
Paul’s letters testify to belief in the full deity of Jesus Christ as the basic axiom of the church not as a point of contention. This, Hurtado points out, is confirmed by the Aramaic acclamation in 1 Corinthians 16:22, marana tha (Lord, come!). Paul uses this in a Gentile context without explanation or translation, addressing Christ in a corporate, liturgical prayer, with the reverence shown to God.
Moreover, the roots of this prayer are Palestinian, widely familiar beyond its original source and probably pre-Pauline.7 Bauckham writes of “its very early origin.”8 Paul applies the divine name (YHWH) to Christ via kurios “without explanation or justification, suggesting that his readers were already familiar with the term and its connotation.” In Romans 9:5 it is likely that Paul expressly designates Jesus Christ as theos (God). Witherington writes of John that he “is willing to predicate of Jesus what he predicates of the Lord God, because he sees them as on the same level.”9
The author of Hebrews, too, in his argument for Christ’s supremacy, cites Psalm 45 to support the incarnate Son as possessing the status of God (Heb. 1:8–9). The Son is the brightness of the Father’s glory, the express image of his being. All angels are to worship him (Heb. 1:1-14). Since he is superior to the angels, Bauckham comments, “he is included in the unique identity of the one God.”10 Psalm 102, referring to the creator of the universe, is here applied directly to Christ. As T.F. Torrance puts it, Christ is “not just a sort of locum tenens, or a kind of ‘double’ for God in his absence, but the incarnate presence of Yahweh.”11
Furthermore, Jesus’ resurrection discloses that he is Lord, the deity of Christ becoming “the supreme truth of the Gospel … the central point of reference consistent with the whole sequence of events leading up to and beyond the crucifixion.”12 At the center of the New Testament message is the unbroken relation between the Son and the Father.13
The Deity of Christ
The Son, Jesus Christ, is distinct from the Father; he is divine, equal, and of identical being with him and the Holy Spirit.
Do you "see" now?
J.
civic
Active Member
You are affirming Jesus is the Lord God Almighty right in your above comment.
Divisions always come. To continue to love is in important. Im at my mothers shop right now and dont wanna listen to any tunes. I dont care much for christian music or christian culture in general but i bet they are cool.
I just say i dont live in bible times cause none of us do but the scripture is there to reassure us of the people who sought out God and lived in Faith and how God took care of those who had faith, and those who killed the Son of God were all burned up in Ad. 70.
Todays time is the age of fullfilment where you only live once, and then death, judgement and resurrection and placement (outside the kingdom or inside.) revelation 21-22.
civic
Active Member
He said this too: believe also in Me. Doesn’t that make His statement one of equality?
Not gonna read all that. If you talked plainly i might. Im not worried about all these studies and stuff people made at the moment. Just conversing. Its not like your my dad or anything, if you wanna talk to me normally i might respond.Jesus’ Equality and Identity with God
Jesus asserts his equality and identity with God in the face of blasphemy charges by the Jewish leaders. He is charged with making himself equal with God (John 5:16–47) and later for identifying himself with God (John 10:25–39).
His accusers threaten the penalty for blasphemy. In both cases, Jesus denies the charge on the grounds that he is speaking the truth, citing in support the plurality of witnesses required by Jewish law. In John 14:1 Jesus co-ordinates himself with God as the object of faith – “Believe in God; believe also in me.”
Similarly, like frames around a picture, John refers to him as “God” in John 1:18 at the start of his Gospel and has Thomas confessing him as “my Lord and my God” in John 20:28 at the end.
Paul’s characteristic name for Jesus Christ is “Lord” (kurios), the Greek word commonly used for YHWH (יהוה), the covenant name of God in the Old Testament.
By this pervasive use Paul shows he regards Jesus as having the status of God, without abridgement. He makes no attempt to explain or defend it, mentioning it so unselfconsciously that, as Hurtado comments, it entails its being everyday currency among the early Christians.
Paul’s letters testify to belief in the full deity of Jesus Christ as the basic axiom of the church not as a point of contention. This, Hurtado points out, is confirmed by the Aramaic acclamation in 1 Corinthians 16:22, marana tha (Lord, come!). Paul uses this in a Gentile context without explanation or translation, addressing Christ in a corporate, liturgical prayer, with the reverence shown to God.
Moreover, the roots of this prayer are Palestinian, widely familiar beyond its original source and probably pre-Pauline.7 Bauckham writes of “its very early origin.”8 Paul applies the divine name (YHWH) to Christ via kurios “without explanation or justification, suggesting that his readers were already familiar with the term and its connotation.” In Romans 9:5 it is likely that Paul expressly designates Jesus Christ as theos (God). Witherington writes of John that he “is willing to predicate of Jesus what he predicates of the Lord God, because he sees them as on the same level.”9
The author of Hebrews, too, in his argument for Christ’s supremacy, cites Psalm 45 to support the incarnate Son as possessing the status of God (Heb. 1:8–9). The Son is the brightness of the Father’s glory, the express image of his being. All angels are to worship him (Heb. 1:1-14). Since he is superior to the angels, Bauckham comments, “he is included in the unique identity of the one God.”10 Psalm 102, referring to the creator of the universe, is here applied directly to Christ. As T.F. Torrance puts it, Christ is “not just a sort of locum tenens, or a kind of ‘double’ for God in his absence, but the incarnate presence of Yahweh.”11
Furthermore, Jesus’ resurrection discloses that he is Lord, the deity of Christ becoming “the supreme truth of the Gospel … the central point of reference consistent with the whole sequence of events leading up to and beyond the crucifixion.”12 At the center of the New Testament message is the unbroken relation between the Son and the Father.13
The Deity of Christ
The Son, Jesus Christ, is distinct from the Father; he is divine, equal, and of identical being with him and the Holy Spirit.www.thegospelcoalition.org
Do you "see" now?
J.
What happens when that happens? I didnt say anything about not beliving in Jesus.
Not going back. Im a hard headed son of a gun, and not to worried about it when someone claims im a person who reject faith in looking to God and accepting his son. I forgive you, but meh… idk even really know if i can fully trust or not anyway.
civic
Active Member
You would agree Jesus is stating His equality with the Father right ?
Johann
Active Member
No=you are obstinate-I speak plainly and still you don't get it.
Luk 16:19 "Now there was a certain rich man, and he was clothed in purple and fine linen, living in luxury every day.
Luk 16:20 A certain beggar, named Lazarus, was taken to his gate, full of sores,
Luk 16:21 and desiring to be fed with the crumbs that fell from the rich man's table. Yes, even the dogs came and licked his sores.
Luk 16:22 The beggar died, and he was carried away by the messengers to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died, and was buried.
Luk 16:23 In Hades, he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far off, and Lazarus at his bosom.
Luk 16:24 He cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue! For I am in anguish in this flame.'
Luk 16:25 "But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that you, in your lifetime, received your good things, and Lazarus, in the same way, bad things. But here he is now comforted, and you are in anguish.
Luk 16:26 Besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, that those who want to pass from here to you are not able, and that no one may cross over from there to us.'
Luk 16:27 "He said, 'I ask you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house;
Luk 16:28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, so they will not also come into this place of torment.'
Luk 16:29 "But Abraham said to him, 'They have Moses and the prophets. Let them listen to them.'
Luk 16:30 "He said, 'No, father Abraham, but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
Luk 16:31 "He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if one rises from the dead.'"
Enjoy your day.
J.
Not reading anymore after what follows.
among other things.
welcome to my IGNORE BUTTON.
bye
Wrangler
Active Member
More to the point of the OP, who are we told to worship? Thomas does not tell us to worship Jesus.
Jesus told us to worship the Father, that only true worshippers worship the Father - who is the only true God. John 4:23, 17:3.
It is sad to see Jesus followers contradict the words of their lord. Such is the power of IDOLATRY.
Wrangler
Active Member
Always confuse not agreeing with no understanding.
It's rich reading you say others are obstinate.
