brightfame52
Active Member
It remains True
Are vessels of wrath able to become vessels of mercy?
- Thread starter Swordman
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brightfame52
Active Member
No Im not. Im explaining whats in the context
FreeInChrist
Active Member
I want you to explain the context of vs 6 and vs 9...... NOW
Romans 8
vs 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
vs 7
vs 8
vs9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
For you are correct in your meaning of 7 and 8 but your meaning is incomplete.
Vs 9 explicitly states that you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.
This specifically indicates that the Spirit of God is available to those with faith.
Romans 8:9 is not narrowing salvation to a secret elect group. Paul is defining what it means to belong to Christ.
“If indeed” assumes the Spirit’s presence in the audience, and the second clause makes it explicit: anyone without the Spirit does not belong to Christ.
Paul is contrasting regenerate vs unregenerate, not elect vs non-elect.
Turning verse 9 into an “elect-only” qualifier collapses Paul’s argument and invents a category Paul explicitly denies.
Paul’s contrast stands whether one affirms election or not. Romans 8 is about identity in Christ, not about drawing an invisible line within the church.
brightfame52
Active Member
No Im not working for you, study for yourself
FreeInChrist
Active Member
You do not know because no one ever told you.... you cherry pick beyond reason what sounds good to you and you are wrong, wrong, wrong.
You assume you are elect. I assume that is why you believe your were chosen to be judge and jury.
I know what those verses mean.... all 4 of them.... and if we cut out the middle two you dont have a leg to stand on,
What?????/ I cannot do that!!!!!!! Why not because you cut out 6 and 9 from your scriptures.
I’m happy to discuss Scripture where context is part of the conversation. Without that, there’s nothing productive left to add.
You addressed nothing
You ignored the reply and a multitude of scripture
Regarding romans 8:7,8
Those who believe are no longer in the flesh and please God
Heb 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.
1 Cor 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
God is pleased to save all who believe
According to scripture
Man may repent
Jeremiah 31:18-19
I have surely heard Ephraim’s moaning: ‘You disciplined me severely, like an untrained calf. Restore me, that I may return, for You are the LORD my God. / After I returned, I repented; and after I was instructed, I struck my thigh in grief. I was ashamed and humiliated because I bore the disgrace of my youth.’
Revelation 2:21–22 (LEB) — 21 And I have given her time in order to repent, and she did not want to repent from her sexual immorality. 22 Behold, I am throwing her into a sickbed and those who committed adultery with her into great affliction, unless they repent from her deeds.
Luke 11:32 (LEB) — 32 The people of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the proclamation of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here!
Ezekiel 18:30–32 (LEB) — 30 “Therefore I will judge you, house of Israel, each one according to his ways,” declares the Lord Yahweh. “Repent and turn around from all of your transgression, and it will not be as a stumbling block of iniquity to you.
Those that repent please God
Ezek 18:23 Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked,” declares the Lord God, “rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?
Ezek 33:11 Say to them, ‘As I live!’ declares the Lord God, ‘I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways! Why then will you die, O house of Israel?’
Luke 15:7I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.
please God
brightfame52
Active Member
Rom 8:7-8 addresses it
Sorry, you must believe to be made alive
John 11:25–26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
John 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
John 6:47 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.
Rom 10:9–10 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
John 20:31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.
John 6:40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
As always, you fail to address scripture.
The Spirit makes alive those who believe
faith precedes regeneration, for regeneration requires the indwelling of the Spirit
John 7:38–39 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’ ” But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Gal 3:2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
Gal 3:14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Eph 1:13–14 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
It is rather plain
John 1:12–13But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
Those who believe become children of God that is born of God, i.e., regenerated.
brightfame52
Active Member
One has no life to believe b4 given life by God.
brightfame52
Active Member
Rom 8:7-8 takes care of it
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Rom 8:7-8 addresses part of it
You failed to address the scripture posted as always.
The Spirit makes alive those who believe
faith precedes regeneration, for regeneration requires the indwelling of the Spirit
John 7:38–39 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’ ” But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Gal 3:2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
Gal 3:14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Eph 1:13–14 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
It is rather plain
John 1:12–13But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
Those who believe become children of God that is born of God, i.e., regenerated.
.
As always
The Spirit makes alive those who believe
faith precedes regeneration, for regeneration requires the indwelling of the Spirit
John 7:38–39 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’ ” But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Gal 3:2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
Gal 3:14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Eph 1:13–14 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
It is rather plain
John 1:12–13But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
Those who believe become children of God that is born of God, i.e., regenerated.
Clearly you reject the word of God
You must believe to be made alive
John 11:25–26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
John 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
John 6:47 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.
Rom 10:9–10 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
John 20:31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.
John 6:40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
Wick Stick
Active Member
I disagree.
Ezra convened the "Great Synagogue" in the 5th century BC and the canon of the Old Testament is to a large degree the collection of books that group endorsed.
What I mean is... the Old Testament already held a special status among Jewry as being something special above other books, in Paul's day. There are no books of the New Testament for which this was true in the 1st century.
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